Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.

[Lynn]

Edit/ TLDR: If the man was delusional enough to think that he could make a personal appeal to the military, and they would overthrow the current regieme and run into his arms and the citizens would throw a parade - what would discourage him from doing this NATO or no NATO?

Nothing. It seems like this was always the plan from before the build up of forces along the border, and he only 'asked for everything and more' knowing any answer would almost certainly be no.

Now would be a great time for Chechnya to give breaking away another shot.

[Wrath of God]

The problem with Chechenya is simple - most of both democratic and islamic rebels were killed or forced to emigrate (there is for instance quite soilid Chechen mafia in Western Europe from what I heard). And Chechenyans get basically nation-state from Putin in exchange for feudal military alliance. Wars and later Kadyrow politics drow Russians from Chechenya - and in 60's they were majority there (because Stalin banished all Chechens to Central Asia as he seen them untrustworthy).

So nowadays Chechenyans are like in best shape probably since Imperial Russian conquest of Caucasus, and they are in this shape thanks to alliance with Putin. They are warlike nation, they can accept I think being beaten into alliance by powerful warlord, and they will have no qualms to fight in his armies.

Although as it's warlike clannish society then Kadyrow probably have quite a lot personal and family enemies, that could use this fuck-up to try overpower him, more for sake of local power, than alliance with Russia.

[Ghostmaker]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-says-it-is-ready-to-stop-invasion-in-a-moment-if-ukraine-meets-conditions

It looks like Putin realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew, finally. Note that there's no demand for a change in government, which you would think Putin would want (so he could install a puppet, natch).

I don't think Ukraine can hold out forever, though they can, in the immortal words of Hot Rod in Transformers, give them one humongous repair bill. Worse, though, is that Russian military doctrine for FISH (fighting in someone's house, i.e. urban combat) is to just shell it into rubble. So it might be for the best to take the offer (granted, I don't live in Ukraine, so they might think differently).

The downside is that the Biden regime will duly trot this out as a foreign policy win, alongside letting Iran get nukes. And continue to buy Russian oil, of course.

[Chris24601]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-says-it-is-ready-to-stop-invasion-in-a-moment-if-ukraine-meets-conditions

It looks like Putin realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew, finally. Note that there's no demand for a change in government, which you would think Putin would want.

I hate to break it to you, but that's actually an escalation from Putin's initial demands.

Putin didn't call for regime change in his initial demands either... he demanded disarmament and neutrality in accord with a prior treaty (regime change only came up as "if necessary to achieve our goals").

Now he's demanding a change to their constitution to keep them out of NATO and recognition of his seizure of Crimea and independence of the Donbass region.

So, regardless of what our media is saying, Putin either believes he's winning or at least is using a traditional negotiating from strength tactic of turning up the pain with each refusal to comply. That could be a bluff, but regardless, he's acting like someone who thinks he's winning.

[Ghostmaker]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-says-it-is-ready-to-stop-invasion-in-a-moment-if-ukraine-meets-conditions

It looks like Putin realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew, finally. Note that there's no demand for a change in government, which you would think Putin would want.

I hate to break it to you, but that's actually an escalation from Putin's initial demands.

Putin didn't call for regime change in his initial demands either... he demanded disarmament and neutrality in accord with a prior treaty (regime change only came up as "if necessary to achieve our goals").

Now he's demanding a change to their constitution to keep them out of NATO and recognition of his seizure of Crimea and independence of the Donbass region.

So, regardless of what our media is saying, Putin either believes he's winning or at least is using a traditional negotiating from strength tactic of turning up the pain with each refusal to comply. That could be a bluff, but regardless, he's acting like someone who thinks he's winning.

Did you just skip past the rest of the post I made? I conceded that I didn't think Ukraine could win this.

[Chris24601]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/russia-says-it-is-ready-to-stop-invasion-in-a-moment-if-ukraine-meets-conditions

It looks like Putin realizes he's bitten off more than he can chew, finally. Note that there's no demand for a change in government, which you would think Putin would want.

I hate to break it to you, but that's actually an escalation from Putin's initial demands.

Putin didn't call for regime change in his initial demands either... he demanded disarmament and neutrality in accord with a prior treaty (regime change only came up as "if necessary to achieve our goals").

Now he's demanding a change to their constitution to keep them out of NATO and recognition of his seizure of Crimea and independence of the Donbass region.

So, regardless of what our media is saying, Putin either believes he's winning or at least is using a traditional negotiating from strength tactic of turning up the pain with each refusal to comply. That could be a bluff, but regardless, he's acting like someone who thinks he's winning.

Did you just skip past the rest of the post I made? I conceded that I didn't think Ukraine could win this.

I didn't miss it. I was disagreeing with your assessment that Putin realizes he's bitten off more than he chew. Your assertion seemed to be that his asking for those terms was a sign of him backing off from his initial goals, but their actually ratcheted up from his initial goals, which suggests the opposite... that he's confident he can chew on this (or is at least bluffing that he can).

[Shrieking Banshee]

So, regardless of what our media is saying, Putin either believes he's winning or at least is using a traditional negotiating from strength tactic of turning up the pain with each refusal to comply. That could be a bluff, but regardless, he's acting like someone who thinks he's winning.

Well he can't actually act as somebody who thinks he is loosing. He is a dictator, and showing weakness is a path to death.

I personally believe he acts as somebody who is out of touch. If you have to rapidly up internal security in the nation as any sort of international buisness flees for the foreseable future as you have to send in KGB to aprehend their computers, that doesn't speak to me of a situation that has really given him anything.
Ukraine has already lost in any long-term aspect, but any victory Putin gains will be phyrric. Its already all for nothing effectively. Soldiers dying in Russia is just as unpopular in the US (thats why he allows for a provision for mass graves to cover this stuff up).

From my perspective he is 'going all in' effectively. If Ukraine was toppled in 3 days, he could get a win out of this and pose to the cameras. But now he has a ton of resources stuck there, he can't really take any of them back without looking weak and garunteeing that Ukraine joins Nato.

[Jaeger]

A different take that doesn't follow the usual narrative being blasted out by the Media Propaganda shills, the network these clips are from is generally just as bad an offender as any of the others:

3-2-2022

3-4-2022

3-7-2022

[Jaeger]

Another counterpoint to Hannity's neocon shilling...

[DocJones]

What concessions could be given to him to prevent this.

Putin's biggest concern was the Ukraine joining NATO.

No it's all about Ukraine oil and gas.  Russia wants all of it. 
Putin believes the west and NATO to be feckless. 
Unfortunately, he may be right about that.
When you look at his potential successors, they are as conservative as he is.

[Shasarak]

What concessions could be given to him to prevent this.

Putin's biggest concern was the Ukraine joining NATO.

No it's all about Ukraine oil and gas.  Russia wants all of it. 
Putin believes the west and NATO to be feckless. 
Unfortunately, he may be right about that.
When you look at his potential successors, they are as conservative as he is.

It sure is a mystery how Ukraine has so many resources on one hand and is so poor on the other hand.

Cant even boost the economy by giving stacks of cash to Biden and running US Bioweapon Labs on the side.

[Shrieking Banshee]

It sure is a mystery how Ukraine has so many resources on one hand and is so poor on the other hand.

Corruption and a lack of national identity. This is why cultural ties are so important.

[3catcircus]

An interesting thought.

Poland has offered to give the US all their MIG-29s to transfer to the Ukraine.  Who provides spare parts when they fail or are damaged in combat?  Is there a depot in the Ukraine or is all the supply chain for a Russian-designed aircraft still in Russia?  The parent company of the former MiG is owned by the Russian government.

Another interesting thought.

All those western companies virtue signalling by closing up operations in Russia? You can pretty much expect they'll never operate there again - to the chagrin of shareholders...

[3catcircus]

It sure is a mystery how Ukraine has so many resources on one hand and is so poor on the other hand.

Corruption and a lack of national identity. This is why cultural ties are so important.

So who is to blame for the Ukrainian corrupt officials that decided not to take a large enough skim of the money laundering by corrupt western officials!

[Pat]

It sure is a mystery how Ukraine has so many resources on one hand and is so poor on the other hand.

I'd like to introduce to South America, Africa, and most of Eastern Europe.

Corruption and broken institutions are the norm, not the exception. It's one of the key reasons why the US is still so competitive, despite shooting itself in the foot so many times. Other countries are typically much worse when it comes to corruption, rule of law, trust, and the other basics that underlie a thriving economy.

To reference SB's comment, if it helps forge a national identity, there's a chance this war might have some positive effects for Ukraine in the long run.