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Author Topic: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.  (Read 100771 times)

Chris24601

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #270 on: March 04, 2022, 04:22:16 PM »
Well demanding his assasination has killed any micro-chance of Putin stepping down. Thanks Lindsay.
Also worth noting; he's also just justified Putin (who has always promised equivalent retaliation for what he sees as attacks on Russia) opening up the same tactic of assassination on the leadership of the Ukraine, America and NATO.

On the one hand, that's a horrific escalation. On the other hand, maybe if the elites were considered fair game and priority targets in war, they wouldn't try to start so many.

3catcircus

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #271 on: March 04, 2022, 04:37:30 PM »
When was the last time our inept & evil rulers didn't go down the slippery slope? Lindsay Graham is openly advocating for murder of Putin. The entire Washington/EU political class are determined to turn a regional conflict (that they provoked) into a nuclear world war.

We desperately need to clean house.

Won’t someone rid me of this troublesome Priest?

I am sure that a general call to assassinate politicians will go exactly as well as anyone with half a brain could predict.

Unfortunately half a brain is such a high bar.

Yep. For every "good" politician calling for a world leader to be assassinated, there is a world leader who could call for that politician's assassination - and make good on the threat...

Chris24601

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #272 on: March 04, 2022, 05:31:27 PM »

Well, on the bright side of World War 3, if we get a nuclear winter it will at least shut up the global warming nuts. #AlwaysLookOnTheBrightSideOfLife

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #273 on: March 04, 2022, 07:48:33 PM »
Oh here comes that old isolationism mantra. Just as unethical as it was in 1939.

Well its a different set of ethics. No nation does anything for free or truly because of the goodness of their heart. Denying this I feel sets the path for larger abuse.
The USa has motives for getting involved in other nations, but its not because of ethics.

Isolationism at it's heart is unethical, regardless of motives for getting involved with other nations. Nobody said or implied non-isolationism is altruistic or always ethical itself. But the basic principal of isolationism is unethical.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #274 on: March 04, 2022, 07:49:44 PM »
...
They also can't understand that you can be sympathetic to the plight of Ukie civilians without wanting to get into another 20-year war. It doesn't help that Westerners don't understand the Slavic mindset - regardless of benign-ness of NATO membership, to Putin and Lukashenko, they see themselves surrounded by NATO.

This is big.

The situation sucks for the Ukrainian people.

But it's just not our business.

Oh here comes that old isolationism mantra. Just as unethical as it was in 1939.

It's our business. It's not our business enough to invade and start WW3, but it's our business. We live in a world larger than ourselves. There will always be an excuse to not care about what happens outside our border. That excuse is usually just bullshit.

And the easy was to demonstrate the lie? This thread. People are interested more than just making sure we don't start WW3. Everyone here knows on some level it's everyone's business when one of the world powers militarily invades another nation without provocation and expects to see no push back from the rest of the world for their actions.

You won't find him arguing the same about the ONE superpower currently commiting genocide but hey, it's never about principles with him.

Oh please do tell me about what you think is the "ONE superpower currently committing genocide." This should be good. Might reveal your spots finally.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #275 on: March 04, 2022, 07:51:01 PM »
Aparently a temporary cease fire has been negotiated between Ukraine and Russia. Lets hope they manage to cut a deal that allows Putin to save face in his country (because I don't think he would agree to anything else) and doesn't end with all of Ukraine under his boot. Praying for it.

No such cease-fire has been negotiated. Guess you're reading shitty sources again.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #276 on: March 04, 2022, 08:05:17 PM »
Isolationism at it's heart is unethical.
Well thats a really unfair way of viewing people with different beliefs.

Well I think that goes more into your baseline beliefs about the role of government and intervention about what a person can do in day to day society. From my reading of you, you err much more on the 'interventionist' side.

yancy

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #277 on: March 04, 2022, 09:33:40 PM »
No such cease-fire has been negotiated. Guess you're reading shitty sources again.

The only sources I've found reporting limited, local cease-fires are flagrantly biased left wing outlets like TheHill, and the Washington Post, and they're the first things that appear in a Google search, so doubtless they're all propaganda and I won't bother linking to them.

Isolationism at it's heart is unethical.

This I can help with though, I think the source here is more impartial:

https://guides.lib.uoguelph.ca/c.php?g=696372&p=4999533

Quote from: Rhedyn
if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #278 on: March 04, 2022, 09:41:01 PM »
Aparently a temporary cease fire has been negotiated between Ukraine and Russia. Lets hope they manage to cut a deal that allows Putin to save face in his country (because I don't think he would agree to anything else) and doesn't end with all of Ukraine under his boot. Praying for it.

No such cease-fire has been negotiated. Guess you're reading shitty sources again.

I dunno, is thewashington post a shitty source to you?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #279 on: March 04, 2022, 09:43:44 PM »
...
They also can't understand that you can be sympathetic to the plight of Ukie civilians without wanting to get into another 20-year war. It doesn't help that Westerners don't understand the Slavic mindset - regardless of benign-ness of NATO membership, to Putin and Lukashenko, they see themselves surrounded by NATO.

This is big.

The situation sucks for the Ukrainian people.

But it's just not our business.

Oh here comes that old isolationism mantra. Just as unethical as it was in 1939.

It's our business. It's not our business enough to invade and start WW3, but it's our business. We live in a world larger than ourselves. There will always be an excuse to not care about what happens outside our border. That excuse is usually just bullshit.

And the easy was to demonstrate the lie? This thread. People are interested more than just making sure we don't start WW3. Everyone here knows on some level it's everyone's business when one of the world powers militarily invades another nation without provocation and expects to see no push back from the rest of the world for their actions.

You won't find him arguing the same about the ONE superpower currently commiting genocide but hey, it's never about principles with him.

Oh please do tell me about what you think is the "ONE superpower currently committing genocide." This should be good. Might reveal your spots finally.

China, as if you didn't know.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #280 on: March 04, 2022, 11:08:54 PM »
Isolationism at it's heart is unethical.
Well thats a really unfair way of viewing people with different beliefs.

My family was slaughtered by Nazis at a time where other nations knew about it, had the power to stop it, and decided to not stop it due to isolationism. You can F yourself on my being "unfair" to people with "different beliefs." It's OK to judge some beliefs as bad based on the impact they have on other people. Isolationism is unethical. Inherently so. It says no matter how bad something gets, no matter how easily you can stop it from happening, you're not to intervene based on that principal and that principal alone. That's unethical no matter how you spin it or no matter how you feel about it.

Quote
Well I think that goes more into your baseline beliefs about the role of government and intervention about what a person can do in day to day society. From my reading of you, you err much more on the 'interventionist' side.

It depends on the circumstances, for any ethical being it depends on the circumstances. If it doesn't depend on the circumstances for you because you think there are no circumstances in which you'd help your neighbor in need when you have the means to do so, then you're unethical.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #281 on: March 04, 2022, 11:11:48 PM »
Aparently a temporary cease fire has been negotiated between Ukraine and Russia. Lets hope they manage to cut a deal that allows Putin to save face in his country (because I don't think he would agree to anything else) and doesn't end with all of Ukraine under his boot. Praying for it.

No such cease-fire has been negotiated. Guess you're reading shitty sources again.

I dunno, is thewashington post a shitty source to you?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/

Yes. Of course it's a shitty source. Is it seriously a good source in your view?

There isn't a cease fire in Ukraine. There are some "corridors" for some people to flee, but that's not a cease fire and has never been defined as a cease fire before.

Mistwell

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #282 on: March 04, 2022, 11:12:38 PM »
...
They also can't understand that you can be sympathetic to the plight of Ukie civilians without wanting to get into another 20-year war. It doesn't help that Westerners don't understand the Slavic mindset - regardless of benign-ness of NATO membership, to Putin and Lukashenko, they see themselves surrounded by NATO.

This is big.

The situation sucks for the Ukrainian people.

But it's just not our business.

Oh here comes that old isolationism mantra. Just as unethical as it was in 1939.

It's our business. It's not our business enough to invade and start WW3, but it's our business. We live in a world larger than ourselves. There will always be an excuse to not care about what happens outside our border. That excuse is usually just bullshit.

And the easy was to demonstrate the lie? This thread. People are interested more than just making sure we don't start WW3. Everyone here knows on some level it's everyone's business when one of the world powers militarily invades another nation without provocation and expects to see no push back from the rest of the world for their actions.

You won't find him arguing the same about the ONE superpower currently commiting genocide but hey, it's never about principles with him.

Oh please do tell me about what you think is the "ONE superpower currently committing genocide." This should be good. Might reveal your spots finally.

China, as if you didn't know.

Ha! I honestly didn't know. I thought you were going to say something else. But I agree with you!

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #283 on: March 04, 2022, 11:40:26 PM »
My family was slaughtered by Nazis at a time where other nations knew about it, had the power to stop it, and decided to not stop it due to isolationism. You can F yourself on my being "unfair" to people with "different beliefs."
Well all my great grandfathers died in WWII and my grandmothers mainly had to hide away in Siberia. While allot of our distant extended family was slaughtered by Nazis in mass graves (because we are jewish). So I counter your emotional put down with a put down of my own.

So let me repeat: you are being unfair to people with different beliefs. Your morality is binary and refuses to recognize nuance. Im not sure if there is any point in discussing an idea further if somebody is unwilling to even entertain the idea of them being wrong.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #284 on: March 05, 2022, 01:06:18 AM »
Aparently a temporary cease fire has been negotiated between Ukraine and Russia. Lets hope they manage to cut a deal that allows Putin to save face in his country (because I don't think he would agree to anything else) and doesn't end with all of Ukraine under his boot. Praying for it.

No such cease-fire has been negotiated. Guess you're reading shitty sources again.

I dunno, is thewashington post a shitty source to you?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-ukraine-war-putin-news/

Yes. Of course it's a shitty source. Is it seriously a good source in your view?

There isn't a cease fire in Ukraine. There are some "corridors" for some people to flee, but that's not a cease fire and has never been defined as a cease fire before.

Yes captain hindsight, it's easy to be correct after the fact. You asked for sources, there's a far left source (so one that agrees with you on most things) but now you declare it a shitty one... Because you need to win and will make up anything post hoc in order to do so.

Also let me point you to a little tidbit hidden in the first word of my post: APPARENTLY

You might want to check the definition.

Anything else?
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell