Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.

[jeff37923]

The only real truth here is this:

The Ukrainian people have gotten screwed.

It's all a big mess.

And Nobody knows the full story because everyone involved in this shit since the fall of the USSR is shady as fuck.

This is the meat of the current event.

Not the spin or the trolling, but the meat of this.

[DocJones]

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the West behind

[DocJones]

THEN, also as you noted, I have long been disturbed and concerned about actual, real, NAZI influence in Ukraine. I've seen videos and such where this isn't a few guys with political opinions just to the right of Mao, or who oppose the Alphabet Mafia, and are labeled as NAZI's by the deranged fucktard Left--there are entire *REGIMENTS* of heavily-armed NAZI's in the Ukrainian military, featuring swastika armbands, Nazi tattoos, waving Nazi banners and the whole bit. RIGHT SECTOR is fucking right, my friend! I've seen videos and interviews with these guys. Geesus. And the Ukrainian government embraces them and supports them.

And Lefty Liberal fucktards always screeching about how everyone that opposes them are Nazi's, and that Putin is a monster--how convenient they are oblivious to actual Nazis in positions of influence in Ukraine.

Shark, you'll notice I've been pretty quiet on Ukraine here. But this part, I gotta jump in. This part is Russian propaganda. You're repeating stuff directly planted by RT. That Nazi influence stuff is bullshit from FSB. They're taking two strategies on this one: 1) Paint the Ukraine military and Government as drug addicts, and 2) Paint the Ukraine military and Government as Nazis.

It's not that there isn't a neo-nazi nationalist segment of Ukraine. There is. There's one in most nations. But they're tiny, and have no power in Ukraine. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right nationalists (which are not all neo-nazis themselves, but that's the group they allied with) were humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. That's less than they got in most EU nations, like France and Germany.

And as Pat mentioned, the President is Jewish, and he comes from a family like mine where most of his family was wiped out by the holocaust.

The actual Nazis do not have meaningful influence in Ukraine. But, Putin wants you to think they do. And he wants you to think drug addicts run Ukraine. Those are the two strategies their propaganda is taking, and people shouldn't fall for Russian propaganda. There is plenty of real stuff to talk about.

These guys here
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/02/27/ukraine-national-guard-shares-video-of-fighters-greasing-bullets-in-pig-fat-for-chechen-orcs/

Flying and wearing the Wolfsangel!
There's more Notsees in Ukraine than in all of the USA.
Still if they're greasing bullets for Czechan islamofascists...
Hopefully none of either is left standing.

[Shasarak]

Zelensky's showing way more balls than I ever anticipated from an ex-comedian. People surprise you.

I understand Putin's desire to avoid Ukraine joining NATO. Lithuania and Estonia are in NATO and are on his border. Remember how we reacted with Soviet missiles in Cuba (after we put them in Turkey)?

Ukraine's government was famously corrupt and questionably democratic.

However, IMHO, Putin invaded a country that didn't attack him, and that makes him the bad guy.

If Ukraine didn't want to be invaded, it shouldn't have exposed that sexy coastline.

I told it not to walk there drunk at night.

[Lynn]

Whether we or the Ukrainians appreciate it, Russians view Ukraine as part of Russia. As such I don't think they want to glass the place over. The real question is: What are their ultimate goals??? Do they want to 'liberate' the Russian ethnic majority areas, or do they want to bring 100% of Ukraine 'back' into Russian control? I have no earthly idea.

I think views in Russia are more complicated than that. After WWII, there was a lot of migration into Ukraine, resulting in a sizable (about 1/3 max) of the population being ethnic Russian. There is a strong sense of kinship but, I believe that many Russians that do have regular business in Ukraine (business, relations, etc) are a little more sophisticated. A lot of Russians (I believe Russian polls, for what they were worth) showed that there was an 80% approval rating over the take over of Crimea, but that  was almost entirely bloodless. The years since though, though despite the ease of traffic between the countries (easier than going between Canada and the USA), have been complicated by the Russian involvement in Eastern Ukraine. It solidified many in Ukraine against Russia and, I believe many Russians have been questioning just what their government is doing to their friendly neighbors. And sanctions do remind them as well. Many goods have doubled or tripled in price.

[Mistwell]

THEN, also as you noted, I have long been disturbed and concerned about actual, real, NAZI influence in Ukraine. I've seen videos and such where this isn't a few guys with political opinions just to the right of Mao, or who oppose the Alphabet Mafia, and are labeled as NAZI's by the deranged fucktard Left--there are entire *REGIMENTS* of heavily-armed NAZI's in the Ukrainian military, featuring swastika armbands, Nazi tattoos, waving Nazi banners and the whole bit. RIGHT SECTOR is fucking right, my friend! I've seen videos and interviews with these guys. Geesus. And the Ukrainian government embraces them and supports them.

And Lefty Liberal fucktards always screeching about how everyone that opposes them are Nazi's, and that Putin is a monster--how convenient they are oblivious to actual Nazis in positions of influence in Ukraine.

Shark, you'll notice I've been pretty quiet on Ukraine here. But this part, I gotta jump in. This part is Russian propaganda. You're repeating stuff directly planted by RT. That Nazi influence stuff is bullshit from FSB. They're taking two strategies on this one: 1) Paint the Ukraine military and Government as drug addicts, and 2) Paint the Ukraine military and Government as Nazis.

It's not that there isn't a neo-nazi nationalist segment of Ukraine. There is. There's one in most nations. But they're tiny, and have no power in Ukraine. In the 2019 election, the Ukrainian far right nationalists (which are not all neo-nazis themselves, but that's the group they allied with) were humiliated, receiving only 2% of the vote. That's less than they got in most EU nations, like France and Germany.

And as Pat mentioned, the President is Jewish, and he comes from a family like mine where most of his family was wiped out by the holocaust.

The actual Nazis do not have meaningful influence in Ukraine. But, Putin wants you to think they do. And he wants you to think drug addicts run Ukraine. Those are the two strategies their propaganda is taking, and people shouldn't fall for Russian propaganda. There is plenty of real stuff to talk about.

These guys here
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/02/27/ukraine-national-guard-shares-video-of-fighters-greasing-bullets-in-pig-fat-for-chechen-orcs/

Flying and wearing the Wolfsangel!
There's more Notsees in Ukraine than in all of the USA.
Still if they're greasing bullets for Czechan islamofascists...
Hopefully none of either is left standing.

Yes, the Azov Battalion. Worth reading about, but noteworthy as not particularly representative of Ukraine or the military.

Again, there are neo-nazi's in Ukraine. The debate here is whether they are a meaningful portion of power in Ukraine (Putin's allegation) or not (mine and many others in this thread). Spinning them as mainstream and representative of Ukraine is Putin's propaganda.

[Cat the Bounty Smuggler]

Yes, the Azov Battalion. Worth reading about, but noteworthy as not particularly representative of Ukraine or the military.

Again, there are neo-nazi's in Ukraine. The debate here is whether they are a meaningful portion of power in Ukraine (Putin's allegation) or not (mine and many others in this thread). Spinning them as mainstream and representative of Ukraine is Putin's propaganda.

While I don't think their existence is a good enough reason to side against Ukraine, to be fair I'm pretty sure the average number of openly fascist battalions in most countries' militaries is closer to zero than one. I can understand why someone would find their existence, let alone the fact that a Ukrainian national guard just praised them, disturbing.

[Lynn]

Again, there are neo-nazi's in Ukraine. The debate here is whether they are a meaningful portion of power in Ukraine (Putin's allegation) or not (mine and many others in this thread). Spinning them as mainstream and representative of Ukraine is Putin's propaganda.

I think it likely very little. Svoboda did play a part in the Maidan movement. Although Azov does have the wolftrap symbol, these groups are 'neo-nazi'-like with ultra-nationalism. I don't believe they are Hitler worshipers per se. Russia also has its own and, they are even active on the "Pro-Russia" side in Donbass.

[Jam The MF]

Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the West behind

You do have a point.....

[Ghostmaker]

I think the U.S. should open its borders to Ukrainian refugees as willingly as it's accepted every other Afghani or south-of-the-border economic refugee over the years.

Jokes aside, I really wonder about Putin's mental stability. Threatening Finland in particular seems somewhat pointless.

[Pat]

I think the U.S. should open its borders to Ukrainian refugees as willingly as it's accepted every other Afghani or south-of-the-border economic refugee over the years.

Jokes aside, I really wonder about Putin's mental stability. Threatening Finland in particular seems somewhat pointless.

Putin's losing. That must be a huge blow to his ego, and his ego is roughly 99% of who he is.

(The other 1% is shirtless pics of him riding bears.)

[Ghostmaker]

I think the U.S. should open its borders to Ukrainian refugees as willingly as it's accepted every other Afghani or south-of-the-border economic refugee over the years.

Jokes aside, I really wonder about Putin's mental stability. Threatening Finland in particular seems somewhat pointless.

Putin's losing. That must be a huge blow to his ego, and his ego is roughly 99% of who he is.

(The other 1% is shirtless pics of him riding bears.)

The same could be said of most political leaders anyways.

But yeah, nothing like having what should be a 'gimme' turn into a huge mess for him. Kind of hard on the Ukrainians, though.

[oggsmash]

  I see so much propaganda, I have no idea how to determine how this is going.  I mean, zelensky is being made out to be jessica price(well till the truth came out) at this point, for doing the BARE minimum as a leader (being willing to die defending his country).   I do know this, combine social media and a war, and news outlets are like dogs running in a circle reporting absolute bullshit.   I expect propaganda, but it is out of control.   You would think the spartans are resurrected at thermopalyae.   

   I think this resolves with minimal loss of life, except for the Azoz batallion, I suspect the russians will wage actual war on them, and not an action that looks less agressive than a USA swat team.

  My main concern is the egos involved (NATO aka USA) and Putin can not really afford to back down.  Putin has a few options to save face, but they all involve signing paper.  NATO can not afford for him to get anything, or they look terrible, and Biden has those midterms coming.  Less meddling is best IMO for a quick resolution one way or the other, since the people involved at least from the NATO side seem like idiots who very well could trigger WW3. 

[Pat]

I think the U.S. should open its borders to Ukrainian refugees as willingly as it's accepted every other Afghani or south-of-the-border economic refugee over the years.

Jokes aside, I really wonder about Putin's mental stability. Threatening Finland in particular seems somewhat pointless.

Putin's losing. That must be a huge blow to his ego, and his ego is roughly 99% of who he is.

(The other 1% is shirtless pics of him riding bears.)

The same could be said of most political leaders anyways.

But yeah, nothing like having what should be a 'gimme' turn into a huge mess for him. Kind of hard on the Ukrainians, though.

The Swift thing could turn out to be a mistake. Putin does have nukes.

[Pat]

  My main concern is the egos involved (NATO aka USA) and Putin can not really afford to back down.  Putin has a few options to save face, but they all involve signing paper.  NATO can not afford for him to get anything, or they look terrible, and Biden has those midterms coming.  Less meddling is best IMO for a quick resolution one way or the other, since the people involved at least from the NATO side seem like idiots who very well could trigger WW3.

They're poking a nuclear bear.