Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.

[Null42]

Zelensky's showing way more balls than I ever anticipated from an ex-comedian. People surprise you.

I understand Putin's desire to avoid Ukraine joining NATO. Lithuania and Estonia are in NATO and are on his border. Remember how we reacted with Soviet missiles in Cuba (after we put them in Turkey)?

Ukraine's government was famously corrupt and questionably democratic.

However, IMHO, Putin invaded a country that didn't attack him, and that makes him the bad guy.

[Shrieking Banshee]

Yay, my moms out of the Ukraine and in Poland. She said a bunch of people from Africa decided to also rush the border at the same time so it took longer, but shes safe.

That just leaves everybody else I know in Ukraine.

\However, IMHO, Putin invaded a country that didn't attack him, and that makes him the bad guy.

Yup

[Tubesock Army]

Goddamn seeing retrograde governments get BTFO'd gives me a boner a cat couldn't scratch. a FREEDOM BONER.

Belarus' dictator says "his country" is jumping in. Immediate protests and challenges to his authority ensue, with at least one Belarusian military official publicly encouraging soldiers to disobey "illegal orders". Another woman has now proclaimed herself "leader of Belarus".

Russia has requested negotiations with no preconditions. Delegations to meet on border.

Russian soldiers deserting and surrendering all over the place.

Russian tank column destroyed, killing top Chechen military leader.

Russians, expecting a quick, easy victory, failed to establish decent logistics. They are getting lost, and running out of food, fuel and supplies.

Anonymous is still butt-fucking Russia's government websites, and has hijacked Russian state TV to play the Ukranian anthem and news from across the border nonstop.

This is an inspiration to everyone who values freedom.

[Null42]

Yay, my moms out of the Ukraine and in Poland. She said a bunch of people from Africa decided to also rush the border at the same time so it took longer, but shes safe.
Yup

Whatever your politics, sir, thank God for that.

My prayers for the rest of your family.

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

I've heard several reports about the war so far--and Ukrainian troops are fighting heroically, and putting up hard resistance against Russian armies.

Oh, and the Neo-Nazi "Azov Battalion" has been caught in a cauldron by Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine. Russian FSB propaganda my ass. The reality of Nazi troops serving as part of Ukrainian military forces has been confirmed by *multiple sources*.

I'm not saying Ukraine is controlled by Nazis, or that all of Ukraine are Nazis. There are however, Nazi elements there that have been supported by the Ukrainian government. As Jaeger discussed, that has been verified by multiple witnesses, journalists, and sources--many of which are distinctly Leftist and Liberal. Certainly not "Russian Propaganda". Believe what you want though.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Did you just argue Russian propaganda isn't Leftist and Liberal?

Oh it's been "verified" has it? The fuck it has. The "verification" is, again, mostly from Russian propaganda. Again, while there are neo-nazi elements in Ukraine, there are fewer of them there than most European nations. It's just Russian propaganda to make them seem like they are much bigger and more prominent in Ukraine, because Nazi is the biggest insult in Russia. And here you and Jaeger are, being convenient little fucking puppets of Putin dancing to his tune and looking for any excuse to push his propaganda.

Shark, you like to call anyone who disagrees with you marxists and communists. This is I think the first instance we're I've seen you dance for actual communists. For no reason too. You're not making a powerful point by promoting this communist propaganda. You have not personally researched this aspect of the topic heavily or have first hand experience about it. You're just parroting what you've seen without trying to verify it yourself, and I don't know why this is a hill you'd die on given it really is coming from actual communists and not people you'd ordinarily trust.

[Mistwell]

Yay, my moms out of the Ukraine and in Poland. She said a bunch of people from Africa decided to also rush the border at the same time so it took longer, but shes safe.

That just leaves everybody else I know in Ukraine.

\However, IMHO, Putin invaded a country that didn't attack him, and that makes him the bad guy.

Yup

Thank God your mom got out. I have been thinking about her and your family the past several days since you mentioned she was planning to get out by train on Saturday. Looking at the images of those trains being packed and rushed I was worried. I hope the rest of your family gets out soon too, if that is their goal. I hope they're safer where they are than in the city itself.

[HappyDaze]

Shark, you like to call anyone who disagrees with you marxists and communists. This is I think the first instance we're I've seen you dance for actual communists. For no reason too. You're not making a powerful point by promoting this communist propaganda. You have not personally researched this aspect of the topic heavily or have first hand experience about it. You're just parroting what you've seen without trying to verify it yourself, and I don't know why this is a hill you'd die on given it really is coming from actual communists and not people you'd ordinarily trust.

SHARK commonly fixates on the supposed oral sex activities of these same people...and right now, it sounds like he has something stuck in his own throat.

[Mistwell]

Shark, you like to call anyone who disagrees with you marxists and communists. This is I think the first instance we're I've seen you dance for actual communists. For no reason too. You're not making a powerful point by promoting this communist propaganda. You have not personally researched this aspect of the topic heavily or have first hand experience about it. You're just parroting what you've seen without trying to verify it yourself, and I don't know why this is a hill you'd die on given it really is coming from actual communists and not people you'd ordinarily trust.

SHARK commonly fixates on the supposed oral sex activities of these same people...and right now, it sounds like he has something stuck in his own throat.

Dude, not helping. Shark's a true blue RPG nerd like you and me. We can disagree about important topics without that.

[Tubesock Army]

Yay, my moms out of the Ukraine and in Poland. She said a bunch of people from Africa decided to also rush the border at the same time so it took longer, but shes safe.

That just leaves everybody else I know in Ukraine.

\However, IMHO, Putin invaded a country that didn't attack him, and that makes him the bad guy.

Yup

That's great news, I wish for only the best outcome for Ukraine and its people.

[Shrieking Banshee]

I don't understand Putins military plan. Doesn't he have more artillery options? He could just render a city into ash as a form of demoralization in the first day or such.


Why is he taking this long?

[squirewaldo]

I don't understand Putins military plan. Doesn't he have more artillery options? He could just render a city into ash as a form of demoralization in the first day or such.


Why is he taking this long?

It looks like the Russians do not want to leave Ukraine a smoldering ruin. The cellphones are still working, electricity, gas and water are still flowing to homes and businesses. The gas pipelines are still flowing to Europe. I think the Russians are trying to avoid collateral damage by mopping up the opposition slowly, taking their time, being cautious, etc.

I listened to this guy, Gonazalo Lira, who lives in Ukraine confirm this stuff. He lives in Kharkiv, a Russian majority city, with his family, but got stuck in Kiev when the attack began. From his hotel window all he can confirm is that very little is happening in Kiev... occasional small arms fire in the distance, but nothing crazy. His family reports from Kharkiv that opposition is light, most of the city has been taken, and the Russians are just being very leisurely in mopping up the rather limited opposition.

I suspect when they come to the Azov Battalion(s) the gloves will come off.

[Shrieking Banshee]

I suspect when they come to the Azov Battalion(s) the gloves will come off.

Sounds about right. Russia hasn't been afraid of glassing places before.

[Tubesock Army]

Governor of Kharkiv is reporting that Russians have been expelled from the city.

As of 1 hour ago, all major Ukrainian cities are reported to still be under Ukrainian control.

EU has banned Sputnik and RT.

YouTube has demonetized all Russian propaganda channels.

[squirewaldo]

I suspect when they come to the Azov Battalion(s) the gloves will come off.

Sounds about right. Russia hasn't been afraid of glassing places before.

Whether we or the Ukrainians appreciate it, Russians view Ukraine as part of Russia. As such I don't think they want to glass the place over. The real question is: What are their ultimate goals??? Do they want to 'liberate' the Russian ethnic majority areas, or do they want to bring 100% of Ukraine 'back' into Russian control? I have no earthly idea.

I suspect that if they limit their goals to 'liberating' Russian ethnic areas and crippling the Ukrainian military they will be successful. If they intend to return all of Ukraine to Russia... well if you hate the Russians and want to see them fail that might be exactly what you would want to see them try. But what do I know. The only news we are getting on this is propaganda from one side or the other.

[Mistwell]

I suspect when they come to the Azov Battalion(s) the gloves will come off.

Sounds about right. Russia hasn't been afraid of glassing places before.

Whether we or the Ukrainians appreciate it, Russians view Ukraine as part of Russia. As such I don't think they want to glass the place over. The real question is: What are their ultimate goals??? Do they want to 'liberate' the Russian ethnic majority areas, or do they want to bring 100% of Ukraine 'back' into Russian control? I have no earthly idea.

I suspect that if they limit their goals to 'liberating' Russian ethnic areas and crippling the Ukrainian military they will be successful. If they intend to return all of Ukraine to Russia... well if you hate the Russians and want to see them fail that might be exactly what you would want to see them try. But what do I know. The only news we are getting on this is propaganda from one side or the other.

I think their plan was to waltz in, grab the Ukrainian government, try them for some trumped up bullshit, and put in their own puppet Government with similar control like they have over Belarus. I don't think that plan can work any longer though - any puppet Government they put in place would be deposed the moment they left. Which is why I think Putin is looking to talk again. I don't think he anticipated this level of push back and now he needs to find a way out while saving face.