Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.

[Pat]

And people *wonder* why Vladimir Putin is being hard-nosed, and aggressive? Gee, I wonder why!? Russia can't possibly have its own legitimate security concerns--like the US--and insist that Russia's perspective and concerns IN THEIR FRONT YARD--be respected, huh? Just like we don't mince words when it comes to our strategic and real security concerns. But Russia needs to shut up and sit down like a little bitch, is that right?

Regardless of internal politics, Ukraine is not a legitimate security concern for Russia that justifies invasion. Ukraine is not building up its military and/or threatening to attack Russia. Russia is attacking purely to conquer, not out of self-defense.

  Well....since you are saying this from the USA, the rest of the world takes it with a grain of salt.  Given the USA's past, especially the past 50ish years, this is a case of a giant pot calling a kettle black.

OK, but in this analogy, the pot and the kettle are in fact both black - i.e. both the USA and Russia have engaged in unjustified wars.

Still, that means that Putin's invasion is wrong - which I would think is your position based on your earlier stance. There are not legitimate security concerns that mean the Ukrainians deserve to be invaded. That's the fundamental question here.

I notice you use "Ukrainians" (the people) when you're talking about what you consider an unjust war, thereby suggesting that the Ukrainians (the people) deserve to be invaded when you consider it a just war.

Except that's never the case. The people, as a whole, never "deserve" war. It's the leadership who push wars, not the people. And even if propaganda results in broad support among the people, it's not universal.

[Jaeger]

No, he threatened Sweden And Finland as well if they dared to apply to Nato membership.

And?

He is not having Nato on his border.

Not. Having. It.

This is not hard to understand.

Is Putin being a raging asshole about it all now?

Yes.

He is Not a good Dude...

Please use other news outlets than those supplied by the russian government. They are not to be trusted.

BBC, Reuters, Consortium, and Salon: All well known for their Left-leaning biases, and front and center pushing Trump - Russian collusion stories, are now all authoritarian Russian propaganda outfits?

Well, thanks for clearing that up...

...
  Well....since you are saying this from the USA, the rest of the world takes it with a grain of salt.  Given the USA's past, especially the past 50ish years, this is a case of a giant pot calling a kettle black. 

"WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ!"

How many innocent Iraqi civilians died for that big nothing burger?


There are no white hats here.

Innocent Ukrainian civilians are the ones left holding the bag because of a geopolitical mess made by foreign nations.

[Shasarak]

5 pages and no one has addressed the concern that Hunter Biden will not get his stack of cash this year?

For shame!

Big guy's gotta get his ten percent, y'know.

Look I have an idea and stay with me on this ok.

What if we all put a Ukranian flag in our bio and I personally commit to buying 50% less Russian vodka then I usually do until Putin guarantees that Biden gets his stack of cash.  Either Biden I dont mind.

[yancy]

5 pages and no one has addressed the concern that Hunter Biden will not get his stack of cash this year?

For shame!

Big guy's gotta get his ten percent, y'know.

Look I have an idea and stay with me on this ok.

What if we all put a Ukranian flag in our bio and I personally commit to buying 50% less Russian vodka then I usually do until Putin guarantees that Biden gets his stack of cash.  Either Biden I dont mind.

I think the idea shows promise, though I'm still not sure how it's gonna get me my shipment of steel-cased ammo. On the other hand, the Ukrainian flag might antagonize Putin into escalating the level of force, so I propose sticking to flags of other formerly Communist allied shithole countries.

[oggsmash]

And people *wonder* why Vladimir Putin is being hard-nosed, and aggressive? Gee, I wonder why!? Russia can't possibly have its own legitimate security concerns--like the US--and insist that Russia's perspective and concerns IN THEIR FRONT YARD--be respected, huh? Just like we don't mince words when it comes to our strategic and real security concerns. But Russia needs to shut up and sit down like a little bitch, is that right?

Regardless of internal politics, Ukraine is not a legitimate security concern for Russia that justifies invasion. Ukraine is not building up its military and/or threatening to attack Russia. Russia is attacking purely to conquer, not out of self-defense.

  Well....since you are saying this from the USA, the rest of the world takes it with a grain of salt.  Given the USA's past, especially the past 50ish years, this is a case of a giant pot calling a kettle black.

OK, but in this analogy, the pot and the kettle are in fact both black - i.e. both the USA and Russia have engaged in unjustified wars.

Still, that means that Putin's invasion is wrong - which I would think is your position based on your earlier stance. There are not legitimate security concerns that mean the Ukrainians deserve to be invaded. That's the fundamental question here.

   There is no question, of course Putin is in the wrong.  So what?  Sanctions are did not deter him, and are unlikely to do so.  That leaves what exactly?  Strongly worded letters and emails? 

[Wntrlnd]

No, he threatened Sweden And Finland as well if they dared to apply to Nato membership.

And?

He is not having Nato on his border.

Not. Having. It.

This is not hard to understand.

Is Putin being a raging asshole about it all now?

Yes.

He is Not a good Dude...

He already has. The countries are called Estonia and Lithuania.

[oggsmash]

No, he threatened Sweden And Finland as well if they dared to apply to Nato membership.

And?

He is not having Nato on his border.

Not. Having. It.

This is not hard to understand.

Is Putin being a raging asshole about it all now?

Yes.

He is Not a good Dude...

He already has. The countries are called Estonia and Lithuania.

  That was all he could stands, and he cant stands no more!!!

[yancy]

That was all he could stands, and he cant stands no more!!!

That, and having leftists say mean things about him on cable news and the internet for 4 years, and he finally snapped

[Wntrlnd]

fuck it. it aint worth it..

[oggsmash]

Imagine simping for authoritarianism so hard that you can't help but "AKCHYUALLY..." at a free country fighting back against invasion by a criminal dictator lmao

  Imagine being such a cunt you talk shit to a guy with family in harm's way in Ukraine talking about him being a traitor to his country because he has an opinion and point of view you do not like.   All while being very heartbroken of course.

[Jaeger]

...
  That was all he could stands, and he cant stands no more!!!

Not far off...

They (Estonia and Lithuania) are largely non-entities within Nato, with only 1.3 and 2.7 million people for their respective total populations, and even then Russia was none to pleased with their membership.

Ukraine has 44 million people however, and can field an actual army.

From the Russian perspective, Ukraine is a different matter entirely.

[jeff37923]

Imagine simping for authoritarianism so hard that you can't help but "AKCHYUALLY..." at a free country fighting back against invasion by a criminal dictator lmao

  Imagine being such a cunt you talk shit to a guy with family in harm's way in Ukraine talking about him being a traitor to his country because he has an opinion and point of view you do not like.   All while being very heartbroken of course.

Just put him on your Ignore List. It helps bolster your faith in humanity by not reading his trolling.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

I've heard several reports about the war so far--and Ukrainian troops are fighting heroically, and putting up hard resistance against Russian armies.

Oh, and the Neo-Nazi "Azov Battalion" has been caught in a cauldron by Russian forces in Eastern Ukraine. Russian FSB propaganda my ass. The reality of Nazi troops serving as part of Ukrainian military forces has been confirmed by *multiple sources*.

I'm not saying Ukraine is controlled by Nazis, or that all of Ukraine are Nazis. There are however, Nazi elements there that have been supported by the Ukrainian government. As Jaeger discussed, that has been verified by multiple witnesses, journalists, and sources--many of which are distinctly Leftist and Liberal. Certainly not "Russian Propaganda". Believe what you want though.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Chris24601]

So, the New York Times had a story that the Biden administration told China that the Ukraine getting into NATO was a done deal and there would be nukes on Russia's border soon... knowing that China would tell Russia this (even though it wasn't true).

Because Biden needs a war to distract from and explain away the runaway inflation and other messes he's been mired in. Have you heard one word about Covid, the bare shelves, rising prices, the southern border, the tyranny to the north or the US trucker convoy that's currently reached 15 miles in length? Of course not, because now the media can talk about Russia, Russia, Russia all day long.

Then the Biden Administration goes the extra mile and tries to tell President Zelinisky he shouldn't engage in peace talks Russia... only the US can talk to Russia. Can't have a ceasefire or peace break out too soon now... they need it for the mid-terms.

This doesn't make Putin a good guy, but it does mean our leadership is willing to throw the innocent people of Ukraine into a war just to try and hold onto political power at home and, in my opinion, makes them even worse.

In an ideal world, the Ukrainian people would stop the Russian invasion itself and then tell the US government to fuck itself by making every last dirty deal and money laundering scheme it's run through the Ukraine public.

[Tubesock Army]

So, the New York Times had a story that the Biden administration told China that the Ukraine getting into NATO was a done deal and there would be nukes on Russia's border soon... knowing that China would tell Russia this (even though it wasn't true).

Because Biden needs a war to distract from and explain away the runaway inflation and other messes he's been mired in. Have you heard one word about Covid, the bare shelves, rising prices, the southern border, the tyranny to the north or the US trucker convoy that's currently reached 15 miles in length? Of course not, because now the media can talk about Russia, Russia, Russia all day long.

Then the Biden Administration goes the extra mile and tries to tell President Zelinisky he shouldn't engage in peace talks Russia... only the US can talk to Russia. Can't have a ceasefire or peace break out too soon now... they need it for the mid-terms.

This doesn't make Putin a good guy, but it does mean our leadership is willing to throw the innocent people of Ukraine into a war just to try and hold onto political power at home and, in my opinion, makes them even worse.

In an ideal world, the Ukrainian people would stop the Russian invasion itself and then tell the US government to fuck itself by making every last dirty deal and money laundering scheme it's run through the Ukraine public.

Do you have a link to this NY Times story, I can't find it anywhere.