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Author Topic: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.  (Read 65272 times)

Jam The MF

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Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« on: February 24, 2022, 12:54:20 AM »
The shit pot is being stirred, hard and fast.
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oggsmash

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2022, 08:04:17 AM »
  It has more or less been a war since 2014.  Russia just decided to make a big move sensing weakness in geopolitical adversaries (especially the countries that like to spend all their time lamenting how terrible their founders were and how terrible their societal structures are) and the calculated likelihood it could bring Ukraine or a large swatch of it back to mother Russia. 

  I have no idea how successful Russia will be in that endeavor.  I suspect it is the beginning of some other activity around the globe, China is up next with their big move.  I hope all these moves are resolved in ways that have the smallest loss of life and destruction.  The ripples from these events once they happen are going to be felt for decades.

oggsmash

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2022, 08:18:12 AM »
  I do see on interesting thing in a lot of the CNN clips.  They keep showing, and talking about how Ukraine is passing out AKs to the civilians and how great that is to arm the population.   That sure seems counter to the usual talk from CNN (civilians can not fight an army, no need for firearms owned by the public, firearm ownership is for hunting, etc)  regarding the "people" and firearms.  I have no idea how much firearms experience the average Ukrainian has, so that might make for interesting results.  It looks like Ukraine is hoping to get civilians killed for propaganda after the fact though.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2022, 08:45:08 AM »
Half the country would prefer to unify with russia and the military either pussied out or was bribed.

Its a full on war with generally low casualties because there are few military folk actually fighting.

RandyB

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2022, 08:57:45 AM »
It looks like Ukraine is hoping to get civilians killed for propaganda after the fact though.

Do not forget this, because it is correct and accurate

jeff37923

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2022, 11:34:50 AM »
I don't think that the Ukraine will go down quietly.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/ukraine-strikes-back-against-russia-as-chaos-continues-to-unfold/news-story/9e1eb73d6e9c8b4968e0a1808a3d57df

I have some Russian artists in my news feed and a lot of them are posting that this act is the will of Putin, but not that of the Russian people.
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oggsmash

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2022, 11:44:53 AM »
I don't think that the Ukraine will go down quietly.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/ukraine-strikes-back-against-russia-as-chaos-continues-to-unfold/news-story/9e1eb73d6e9c8b4968e0a1808a3d57df

I have some Russian artists in my news feed and a lot of them are posting that this act is the will of Putin, but not that of the Russian people.

  Not too many wars are the will of the people.  I would hazard to say almost NO war is the will of the people.  It takes massive propaganda and often lies to get a population behind sending their young, strong, brave men to die on other people's dirt.   I have no idea as to the Ukrainian capability to repel Russia.   However it turns out, will be a ripple effect across the globe.

Pat

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2022, 12:17:23 PM »
I don't think that the Ukraine will go down quietly.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/ukraine-strikes-back-against-russia-as-chaos-continues-to-unfold/news-story/9e1eb73d6e9c8b4968e0a1808a3d57df

I have some Russian artists in my news feed and a lot of them are posting that this act is the will of Putin, but not that of the Russian people.

  Not too many wars are the will of the people.  I would hazard to say almost NO war is the will of the people.  It takes massive propaganda and often lies to get a population behind sending their young, strong, brave men to die on other people's dirt.   I have no idea as to the Ukrainian capability to repel Russia.   However it turns out, will be a ripple effect across the globe.
That's true.

It's also true that the main argument in favor of giving government the ability to print money is it's necessary for the government to raise sufficient funds, when there is a threat of war, because if they tried to raise taxes high enough to actually pay for the the war, the populace wouldn't support it.

Makes you wonder.

oggsmash

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2022, 12:31:51 PM »
I don't think that the Ukraine will go down quietly.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/ukraine-strikes-back-against-russia-as-chaos-continues-to-unfold/news-story/9e1eb73d6e9c8b4968e0a1808a3d57df

I have some Russian artists in my news feed and a lot of them are posting that this act is the will of Putin, but not that of the Russian people.

  Not too many wars are the will of the people.  I would hazard to say almost NO war is the will of the people.  It takes massive propaganda and often lies to get a population behind sending their young, strong, brave men to die on other people's dirt.   I have no idea as to the Ukrainian capability to repel Russia.   However it turns out, will be a ripple effect across the globe.
That's true.

It's also true that the main argument in favor of giving government the ability to print money is it's necessary for the government to raise sufficient funds, when there is a threat of war, because if they tried to raise taxes high enough to actually pay for the the war, the populace wouldn't support it.

Makes you wonder.

   There is a reason the founders wanted no standing army.   They figured if the USA was invaded, the army would form quickly from citizens.  If the USA wanted to step into a foreign engagement, they would have to have a GREAT case to form up the army. 

GeekyBugle

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2022, 01:11:59 PM »
I don't think that the Ukraine will go down quietly.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/ukraine-strikes-back-against-russia-as-chaos-continues-to-unfold/news-story/9e1eb73d6e9c8b4968e0a1808a3d57df

I have some Russian artists in my news feed and a lot of them are posting that this act is the will of Putin, but not that of the Russian people.

  Not too many wars are the will of the people.  I would hazard to say almost NO war is the will of the people.  It takes massive propaganda and often lies to get a population behind sending their young, strong, brave men to die on other people's dirt.   I have no idea as to the Ukrainian capability to repel Russia.   However it turns out, will be a ripple effect across the globe.
That's true.

It's also true that the main argument in favor of giving government the ability to print money is it's necessary for the government to raise sufficient funds, when there is a threat of war, because if they tried to raise taxes high enough to actually pay for the the war, the populace wouldn't support it.

Makes you wonder.

Printing money is way worse than taxes, since it devalues the currency.
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Jaeger

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2022, 02:17:26 PM »
...
Printing money is way worse than taxes, since it devalues the currency.

Funny how all Western governments do both...

The West (Mostly USA)  played geopolitical games with the lives of millions of innocent Ukrainians, and we are seeing the result when their bluff gets called.

Putin is not a good guy, but pushing Ukraine to join Nato was mind bending idiocy from the start.

It's like if the USSR installed a puppet government in Mexico, and was in talks with them to join the Eastern Block during the Cold war - We would freak out, and wouldn't have it.

Kinda like the whole Cuban missile Crisis thing...

Honestly, what did they think Putin was going to do? He was not going to have Nato troops and weaponry on his border.

Putin is all in.

He has to come out on top. Overthrow our western puppet government in the Ukraine, and install his puppet government. With a newly formed 100% Russian friendly republic on his border.  He will not annex anything, because he wants the buffer states between him and Nato.

The only thing that makes sense was that they actually thought Putin was bluffing, and when he backed down the not-president would then get great photo-ops for "standing up to Putin'.


I will be surprised if this isn't all wrapped up by this time next week...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 02:21:17 PM by Jaeger »
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2022, 02:34:56 PM »
...
Printing money is way worse than taxes, since it devalues the currency.

Funny how all Western governments do both...

The West (Mostly USA)  played geopolitical games with the lives of millions of innocent Ukrainians, and we are seeing the result when their bluff gets called.

Putin is not a good guy, but pushing Ukraine to join Nato was mind bending idiocy from the start.

It's like if the USSR installed a puppet government in Mexico, and was in talks with them to join the Eastern Block during the Cold war - We would freak out, and wouldn't have it.

Kinda like the whole Cuban missile Crisis thing...

Honestly, what did they think Putin was going to do? He was not going to have Nato troops and weaponry on his border.

Putin is all in.

He has to come out on top. Overthrow our western puppet government in the Ukraine, and install his puppet government. With a newly formed 100% Russian friendly republic on his border.  He will not annex anything, because he wants the buffer states between him and Nato.

The only thing that makes sense was that they actually thought Putin was bluffing, and when he backed down the not-president would then get great photo-ops for "standing up to Putin'.


I will be surprised if this isn't all wrapped up by this time next week...

Don't forget their sham "sanctions", Russia can still sell energy and get paid in dollars, Russia's main export is? You guessed it Energy, and the EUSSR is totally dependent on them thanks to the ecoterrorits.

Allegedly Xu Jin Pooh called Putin and told him to stop the war and get negotiating and Putin agreed. IF that's true I bet you're correct.

My conspiracy theory is this was also a dry run for Xi to annex Taiwan, to see what the west would do.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

jhkim

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2022, 02:42:24 PM »
I agree that there will be a ripple effect across the globe. If this comes across as a success for Putin, then it will embolden not only him, but many other would-be conquerors in other countries. If this comes across as a failure, then it will serve as a deterrent against such invasions.

And this isn't simply a yes-no binary. The worse it is for Putin, the less encouraging it will be. Thus, not just for the freedom of the Ukrainian people, but also for the world in general, I would want it to go poorly - that goes on the international economic front, internally within Russia, the military progress within Ukraine, as well as non-military resistance within Ukraine.

jhkim

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2022, 02:50:52 PM »
Putin is not a good guy, but pushing Ukraine to join Nato was mind bending idiocy from the start.

It's like if the USSR installed a puppet government in Mexico, and was in talks with them to join the Eastern Block during the Cold war - We would freak out, and wouldn't have it.

Kinda like the whole Cuban missile Crisis thing...

But Cuba *did* join the Eastern Bloc during the Cold War, and we did not respond by full-bore invading them. Where we drew the line was that we didn't allow Russia to install nuclear missiles in Cuba.

We haven't come anywhere close to installing nuclear missiles in Ukraine. They haven't even allied with the West, or had any Western military of any kind support them. They were simply in talks about it. That is not a justification for invasion.

Shasarak

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2022, 03:15:40 PM »
That is not a justification for invasion.

Dude, Ukraine had WMDs - Putin had no choice.
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