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Author Topic: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.  (Read 71411 times)

Tubesock Army
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2022, 06:44:15 PM »


Edit: it breaks my heart to see the people of Ukraine under attack.

No, it doesn't.

You are just another troll on the Internet who laughs at the tragic events. You are beneath contempt. Your own avatar quote is, "I'M JUST HERE TO LAUGH AT YOU."

Fuck off already.

Yeah, but you are not Ukraine. YOU, I'm laughing at. Ukraine I'm legitimately heartbroken for. That you can't comprehend someone being more upset about actual human misery than internet forum bullshit says more about you than it does me.

Shasarak

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2022, 07:02:45 PM »
Still, in terms of the conflict itself, I think there is a clear right side and wrong side. Ukrainians defending their country from invasion are right. Russian troops invading are wrong. That doesn't mean that the Ukrainians are angels - just that they aren't wrong in the specific action of fighting back against being invaded.

Agreed. Putin is absolutely in the wrong in invading Ukraine.

I am going to channel my inner SHARK:

"Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times."
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2022, 07:10:40 PM »
I am going to channel my inner SHARK:

"Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times."

Sometimes hard times just generate loosers. Eastern Europe has been in hard times for a real long time.

Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2022, 09:04:39 PM »
I am going to channel my inner SHARK:

"Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times."

Sometimes hard times just generate loosers. Eastern Europe has been in hard times for a real long time.
That whole region in Central and Eastern Europe has been a stomping ground for millennia. Being the funnel into Europe and caught between great powers is why nations like Poland and the Ukraine have had it so rough.

SHARK

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2022, 10:28:12 PM »
Still, in terms of the conflict itself, I think there is a clear right side and wrong side. Ukrainians defending their country from invasion are right. Russian troops invading are wrong. That doesn't mean that the Ukrainians are angels - just that they aren't wrong in the specific action of fighting back against being invaded.

Agreed. Putin is absolutely in the wrong in invading Ukraine.

I am going to channel my inner SHARK:

"Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times."

Greetings!

*Laughing* I was just thinking about that quotation, too! It's one of my favourites!

Very true, my friend. Very true.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

SHARK

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2022, 10:31:32 PM »
I am going to channel my inner SHARK:

"Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times."

Sometimes hard times just generate loosers. Eastern Europe has been in hard times for a real long time.
That whole region in Central and Eastern Europe has been a stomping ground for millennia. Being the funnel into Europe and caught between great powers is why nations like Poland and the Ukraine have had it so rough.

Greetings!

Well said, Pat. "Funnel" indeed. It has always been a very rough place to be living. Armies marching in from the west; Armies matching in from the east; and then, of course, on occasion, armies matching in from the north or south.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Jaeger

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2022, 10:39:45 PM »
...
But it's all Trump's fault. Even though Putin made no moves during Trump's tenure. Despite Trump being a 'puppet'.

The left knows what is truly important.

First: Blame Trump.


... Unless his energy control means sanctions get lifted, ...

This.

The US is importing around 800,000 barrels per day from Russia. Germany gets around 50% of all its oil and gas from Russia.  The rest of the EU is on the hook for a good chunk as well.

If Putin can tidy up Ukraine quickly, and get his new puppet to the negotiating table, the sanctions absolutely will come down in time.

All he needs is to get his new puppet regime to hold "fair elections" that he will invite the U.N. in to monitor. Boom: "Democracy in action" = Sanctions Lifted.

We have a lady in our office that has been here for 5 years but most of her family is still in Ukraine.

Most Ukrainians just want to go back to work, and get on with their lives. They were under no illusions about the "democracy and freedom" of the US supported regime that Putin is trying to overthrow.

Largely, this is all just a really really painful way for them to exchange one foreign puppet regime for another.

It's all been a big colossal mess since the West thought it was a good idea to back the various color revolutions in the Ukraine in 2004 and 2014.

A tragic waste.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 10:53:24 PM by Jaeger »
"The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge."

#WotcDelendaEst

Jam The MF

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2022, 12:33:14 AM »
Putin called out other nations by name, and directly threatened them.

This isn't just about Ukraine.
I was Banned from RPG.net a long time ago, for Having Common Sense.

Jaeger

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2022, 04:44:24 AM »
Putin called out other nations by name, and directly threatened them.
...

Only if they intervened in the Ukraine.

And it worked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDkgpCAT1SQ
“There will be no military confrontation between NATO and Russia,” – head of the German Bundestag Committee on Defense.

Russia is not Afghanistan or Iraq. They actually have a functional military, and the bomb.



None of the players involved are white hats. Remember that.
...

Exactly.

This is how stupid the not-presidents handlers are:

A 2019 report by the RAND corporation to the U.S. Army chief of staff entitled “Extending Russia.”
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

Quote
This report examines a range of possible means to extend Russia. As the 2018 National Defense Strategy recognized, the United States is currently locked in a great-power competition with Russia. This report seeks to define areas where the United States can compete to its own advantage. Drawing on quantitative and qualitative data from Western and Russian sources, this report examines Russia's economic, political, and military vulnerabilities and anxieties. It then analyzes potential policy options to exploit them — ideologically, economically, geopolitically, and militarily (including air and space, maritime, land, and multidomain options). After describing each measure, this report assesses the associated benefits, costs, and risks, as well as the likelihood that measure could be successfully implemented and actually extend Russia. Most of the steps covered in this report are in some sense escalatory, and most would likely prompt some Russian counter-escalation. Some of these policies, however, also might prompt adverse reactions from other U.S. adversaries — most notably, China — that could, in turn, stress the United States.

Key Findings:

Russia's weaknesses lie in the economic domains:
Russia's greatest vulnerability, in any competition with the United States, is its economy, which is comparatively small and highly dependent on energy exports.
The Russian leadership's greatest anxiety stems from the stability and durability of the regime.

The most promising measures to stress Russia are in the realms of energy production and international pressure:
Continuing to expand U.S. energy production in all forms, including renewables, and encouraging other countries to do the same would maximize pressure on Russia's export receipts and thus on its national and defense budgets. Alone among the many measures looked at in this report, this one comes with the least cost or risk.
Sanctions can also limit Russia's economic potential. To be effective, however, these need to be multilateral, involving (at a minimum) the European Union, which is Russia's largest customer and greatest source of technology and capital, larger in all these respects than the United States.

Geopolitical measures to bait Russia into overextending itself are likely impractical, or they risk second-order consequences:
Many geopolitical measures would force the United States to operate in areas that are closer to Russia and where it is thus cheaper and easier for Russia than the United States to exert influence.

Ideological measures to undermine the regime's stability carry significant risks of counter escalation:
Many military options — including force posture changes and development of new capabilities — could enhance U.S. deterrence and reassure U.S. allies, but only a few are likely to extend Russia, as Moscow is not seeking parity with the United States in most domains.


Obviously the US would never interfere in a sovereign nations internal affairs. Right?

Right?

Victoria Nuland at the State Department in 2014: (Currently serving as Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs.)
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape/leaked-audio-reveals-embarrassing-u-s-exchange-on-ukraine-eu-idUSBREA1601G20140207

The mess that Nuland made:
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/

And Salon.com for the win:
https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is-victoria-nuland-a-really-bad-idea-as-a-key-player-in-bidens-foreign-policy-team/
Quote
"Who is Victoria Nuland? Most Americans have never heard of her, because the U.S. corporate media's foreign policy coverage is a wasteland. Most Americans have no idea that President-elect Biden's pick for deputy secretary of state for political affairs is stuck in the quicksand of 1950s U.S.-Russia Cold War politics and dreams of continued NATO expansion, an arms race on steroids and further encirclement of Russia. ..."

..."When Ukrainian President Yanukovych spurned a U.S.-backed trade agreement with the European Union in favor of a $15 billion bailout from Russia, the State Department threw a tantrum.

Hell hath no fury like a superpower scorned.

The EU trade agreement was to open Ukraine's economy to European imports, but without a reciprocal opening of EU markets to Ukraine, it was a lopsided deal Yanukovich could not accept. The deal was approved by the post-coup government, and has only added to Ukraine's economic woes.

The muscle for Nuland's $5 billion coup was Oleh Tyahnybok's neo-Nazi Svoboda Party and the shadowy new Right Sector militia. During her leaked phone call, Nuland referred to Tyahnybok as one of the "big three" opposition leaders on the outside who could help the U.S.-backed Prime Minister Yatsenyuk on the inside. This is the same Tyanhnybok who once delivered a speech applauding Ukrainians for fighting Jews and "other scum" during World War II. "

Honestly, I'm surprised Far-Left Salon hasn't gotten their marching order to deep six the article...

This was all common knowledge right up to the point the not-presidents handlers got their bluff called.

But we live in clown-world where the only truth is the latest narrative that the MSM is currently spouting.


None of the players involved are white hats. Remember that.

And millions of innocent Ukrainian's are paying the price.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 05:55:10 AM by Jaeger »
"The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge."

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SHARK

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2022, 07:47:40 AM »
Greetings!

*Laughing* Ahh, Jaeger! You are reading my mind!

Indeed, from the various sources I have seen--including reports and analysis that you provided above--such provides to me much of my skepticism, suspicions, and disgust with any kind of US involvement concerning Ukraine, and dealing with Russia. I am familiar with the fucking US ambassador that was involved *deep* in coordinating, funding, and sponsoring the "Colour Revolution" in Ukraine which unlawfully deposed the pro-Russian President. And all so that NATO could stroke their cock in Russia's face--while also conveniently enriching various EU nations while also simultaneously shafting Ukraine. As you mentioned, the previous pro-Russian President of Ukraine didn't like the idea of Ukraine getting fucked by the EU, and told them to go fuck themselves, and he would be happy to deal with Russia.

*THAT* got him overthrown by the US-sponsored "Colour Revolution". Nice of the US to do the dirty work of helping EU bureaucrats get rich, huh? Nice of America to whisper and giggle behind closed doors while ensuring that Ukraine gets properly fucked and is subsequently led down the pathway of being a little EU slut. All the while sitting back and looking forward to rubbing the shit in President Vladimir Putin's face.

AND, in the bargain, setting Ukraine up as a junior member of NATO, so that NATO could establish bases and move troops into Ukraine, and threaten Russia.

And people *wonder* why Vladimir Putin is being hard-nosed, and aggressive? Gee, I wonder why!? Russia can't possibly have its own legitimate security concerns--like the US--and insist that Russia's perspective and concerns IN THEIR FRONT YARD--be respected, huh? Just like we don't mince words when it comes to our strategic and real security concerns. But Russia needs to shut up and sit down like a little bitch, is that right? According to the EU and Biden, apparently that is the deal. Discussing Ukraine being restricted from joining NATO is not on the table is what Biden told Putin. Heh. Well, I guess Putin has a different answer that the EU and the US don't fucking like. It's fucking sad and tragic that Ukraine is caught up in the corrupt power and greed games of the EU and the US. Ukraine will sadly be thrown to the wood-chipper, all because America and the EU wouldn't be strong, and forthright, and deal with Ukraine and Russia both in a serious, respectful, and sincere manner.

But the US, and NATO, and the fucking EU, are all nice and sweet Democracy-loving and peaceful nations.

*Yeah, right.*

THEN, also as you noted, I have long been disturbed and concerned about actual, real, NAZI influence in Ukraine. I've seen videos and such where this isn't a few guys with political opinions just to the right of Mao, or who oppose the Alphabet Mafia, and are labeled as NAZI's by the deranged fucktard Left--there are entire *REGIMENTS* of heavily-armed NAZI's in the Ukrainian military, featuring swastika armbands, Nazi tattoos, waving Nazi banners and the whole bit. RIGHT SECTOR is fucking right, my friend! I've seen videos and interviews with these guys. Geesus. And the Ukrainian government embraces them and supports them.

And Lefty Liberal fucktards always screeching about how everyone that opposes them are Nazi's, and that Putin is a monster--how convenient they are oblivious to actual Nazis in positions of influence in Ukraine.

Vladimir Putin has also discussed his absolute conviction that there will be "No Colour Rvolutions coming to Russia"--and he is of course well-aware of the US involvement in destabilizing Ukraine and installing a pro-EU and anti-Russian puppet in Ukraine. Putin is also aware of the Nazis in Ukraine--heavily armed military regiments--and has declared that Russia will *De-Nazify* Ukraine.

But Putin is a monster, and the US and the fucking EU and NATO are the fucking "Good Guys" wearing the white hats.

*R-I-G-H-T* ;D

This whole situation is a bunch of fucking bullshit because the EU and the US didn't have any fucking integrity or honour in conducting themselves and dealing with Ukraine--and Russia--in an honest and sincere manner to begin with. From the beginning several years ago, and more, the situation has been a bunch of grab-ass corruption and ego-stroking peacocking, whether in the pubic eye, or behind closed doors.

Excellent commentary, Jaeger!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 07:58:36 AM by SHARK »
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2022, 08:46:02 AM »
I gotta say im proud of Ukraine for holding out for so long.

The military exceeded my low expectations by not turning traitor when putin gave them a chance.

I guess under shelling this activated a fight or flight instinct.

Wntrlnd

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2022, 09:16:07 AM »
Putin called out other nations by name, and directly threatened them.
...

Only if they intervened in the Ukraine.

And it worked: link to RT

No, he threatened Sweden And Finland as well if they dared to apply to Nato membership.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553723/Putin-turns-attention-Finland-Sweden-Kremlin-official-warns-nations.html

Please use other news outlets than those supplied by the russian government. They are not to be trusted.

Neoplatonist1

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2022, 10:00:38 AM »
Putin called out other nations by name, and directly threatened them.
...

Only if they intervened in the Ukraine.

And it worked: link to RT

No, he threatened Sweden And Finland as well if they dared to apply to Nato membership.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553723/Putin-turns-attention-Finland-Sweden-Kremlin-official-warns-nations.html

Please use other news outlets than those supplied by the russian government. They are not to be trusted.

How do you know who to trust?

Ghostmaker

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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2022, 10:55:17 AM »
Putin called out other nations by name, and directly threatened them.
...

Only if they intervened in the Ukraine.

And it worked: link to RT

No, he threatened Sweden And Finland as well if they dared to apply to Nato membership.
 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10553723/Putin-turns-attention-Finland-Sweden-Kremlin-official-warns-nations.html

Please use other news outlets than those supplied by the russian government. They are not to be trusted.
Which is absolutely retarded. I dunno about the Swedes, but the Finns still hate the Russians. They might join NATO just out of spite.

Pat
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Re: Ukraine is under attack. It's a full on war.
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2022, 10:56:15 AM »
THEN, also as you noted, I have long been disturbed and concerned about actual, real, NAZI influence in Ukraine. I've seen videos and such where this isn't a few guys with political opinions just to the right of Mao, or who oppose the Alphabet Mafia, and are labeled as NAZI's by the deranged fucktard Left--there are entire *REGIMENTS* of heavily-armed NAZI's in the Ukrainian military, featuring swastika armbands, Nazi tattoos, waving Nazi banners and the whole bit. RIGHT SECTOR is fucking right, my friend! I've seen videos and interviews with these guys. Geesus. And the Ukrainian government embraces them and supports them.

And Lefty Liberal fucktards always screeching about how everyone that opposes them are Nazi's, and that Putin is a monster--how convenient they are oblivious to actual Nazis in positions of influence in Ukraine.
The president of the Ukraine denies that. And he's Jewish.

I don't know enough about the topic to have any idea which is true.