This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Turning the corner on "woke"?  (Read 107322 times)

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #630 on: May 16, 2022, 09:17:27 PM »
Well, this is why I was asking you questions about the abortion bundle you were talking about supporting and the science you spoke in favor of around abortion.  I felt your prior tone on most things was not consistent with what goes on in the USA regarding abortion.  I also stopped talking about it on that thread to avoid getting banhammered.

I think that's fair enough, man. I can understand why my tone might appear odd at times. But on one hand, you're dealing with certain individuals who want to try and trick you with a BS or insubstantial argument and have no real interest in having an actual discussion. So I tend to just respond in kind by taking the piss.  ;D

Yeah, I stopped posting there as well after Pundit got pissed. I don't blame him to be fair, things were getting pretty childish (and on my part too as well I'll admit).

Again, I don't know the full 'ins and outs' of the whole Roe V Wade thing because I'm obviously not American. But most people here (and in the UK) seem to think that tampering with Roe V Wade will stop access to abortion in America immediately (or 50% for a start and then it will start going to a vote in the various states).

The science I'm applying would be the Irish model (and some of the more recent UK stuff). And I'm a skeptic when it comes to dealing with reasons for abortion if they are based on some unprovable spiritual notion. I'm not trying to be mean-spirited (unless you dealing with a dick) but as an atheist, I can't accept the existence of a soul.

The ironic thing is you can never stop abortion maybe stymie it at best. Here everyone just fecked off to you UK for a quick 'weekend'. So I'd imagine it will be just a trip to another state in the US or access black market pills.

But I'm with you a line has to be drawn somewhere...

Here's the thing - all of the arguments by the pro abortion crowd are disengenuous because everything they're squawking about being taken away (health of the mother, kid gonna turn out looking like a pile of brain damaged goo and will die within days of being born, rape, incest) were already allowed even before RvW.  Let's not forget that Norma McCorvey (the Jane Roe) was feeling an abortion for financial purposes since she had had two kids she gave up for adoption and didn't/couldn't afford a child.  Let's also not forget that she stated that sueing and the resultant rulings were the biggest regret of her life.

What the left wants is taxpayer-funded abortions for any or no reason even after birth.  All it does is reinforce adult irresponsibility as acceptable.

yancy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 141
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #631 on: May 16, 2022, 09:39:52 PM »
Here's the thing - all of the arguments by the pro abortion crowd are disengenuous because everything they're squawking about being taken away (health of the mother, kid gonna turn out looking like a pile of brain damaged goo and will die within days of being born, rape, incest) were already allowed even before RvW.  Let's not forget that Norma McCorvey (the Jane Roe) was feeling an abortion for financial purposes since she had had two kids she gave up for adoption and didn't/couldn't afford a child.  Let's also not forget that she stated that sueing and the resultant rulings were the biggest regret of her life.

Let's also not forget that the abortion she was allegedly being denied, didn't happen because she had previously given birth to the child, and the court conveniently decided that mootness didn't apply here. That's before they decided to ignore a dozen other reasons to dismiss the case, and got on with the serious business of conjuring "Constitutional Rights" out of the aether.

And while we're at it, let's not forget the crass stupidity of the Missouri case that's looking to shank Roe, where the one abortion clinic in the state (!?!) decided to sue over a law prohibiting abortion after 15 weeks, when the clinic provided abortions at up to 16 weeks. I bet whatever Planned Parenthood related NGO hacks who are behind that one are really kicking themselves.

The left wants to make it seem like this is some devastating blow to women's rights everywhere, but in reality it's just a long overdue return to a reasonable compromise that was on its way to being reached, that for no good reason was completely shanghaied by a rabidly activist court. Remember the death penalty being unconstitutional? I do, and I remember that getting scrapped too, and it'll be great if/when this bullshit joins it on the scrap-heap.
Quote from: Rhedyn
if you are against this, I assume you are racist.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1451
  • Blee
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #632 on: May 16, 2022, 09:58:08 PM »

Here's the thing - all of the arguments by the pro abortion crowd are disengenuous because everything they're squawking about being taken away (health of the mother, kid gonna turn out looking like a pile of brain damaged goo and will die within days of being born, rape, incest) were already allowed even before RvW.  Let's not forget that Norma McCorvey (the Jane Roe) was feeling an abortion for financial purposes since she had had two kids she gave up for adoption and didn't/couldn't afford a child.  Let's also not forget that she stated that sueing and the resultant rulings were the biggest regret of her life.

What the left wants is taxpayer-funded abortions for any or no reason even after birth.  All it does is reinforce adult irresponsibility as acceptable.

But are you proposing that abortion is scrapped altogether then? Aside from the contexts that you mentioned that are already present (rape, incest, etc.)? Or do you see it as legitimate before 'x' amount of weeks?

I can't comment on the Norma thingey, but that shit should have been flung out of court. If you decide to have an abortion, then that's tough shit and you've got to deal with the consequences of your actions that's how it works here (and in Europe AFAIK).

As for reinforcing responsibility that is a very broad issue. One would hope that your parents would do a good job (in theory). But young adults are idiots in general.

I certainly wouldn't like to see 'abortion on demand'. That's one of the big fears postulated by anti-crowd here were putting forward. Although, from what I've heard that doesn't seem to happen where countries have abortions. Now that said, I'd like to see some hard data on the subject. However, even if it turned out to be the case, and as distasteful as I'd find it personally I still believe adults have the right to have an abortion (assuming it's under that 12-week period).










Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
youtube shit:www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1l7oq7EmlfLT6UEG8MLeg

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #633 on: May 16, 2022, 09:58:36 PM »
People lose consciousness when they go to sleep. Consciousness hasn’t been detected in babies until they’re about 5 months old. So killing a baby a 3 months ought not to be murder since it’s not the taking of a person’s life? I find drawing the line at consciousness a poor definition.

But that's where all the protection comes in. Such as the 12 weeks continuum (it may vary a bit from country to country).
So are you and jhkim in agreement, or not? It seems that you are both saying you’re picking option 4 from the list, but you’re also saying a limit should be placed at 12 weeks of pregnancy, which I don’t think is what jhkim is agreeing to.
Ugh, sorry Rob, I got confused in who was quoting and agreeing with whom.

No worries... I get confused as well with all the quotes too. :)
You get confused from one post to the next. You're just stupid.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1451
  • Blee
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #634 on: May 16, 2022, 10:02:32 PM »
You get confused from one post to the next. You're just stupid.

I was wondering when you'd rear that shriveled little head of yours.

But you make an interesting point but unfortunately, it's "Not really definable...."

You utter cabbage. :-* :-*

"Not really definable...." "Not really definable...." "Not really definable...."

Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
youtube shit:www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1l7oq7EmlfLT6UEG8MLeg

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #635 on: May 16, 2022, 10:29:32 PM »
Roe prevented any fruitful discussions on abortion limits so people on both sides could promote positions in either direction that were more extreme than a majority supported. Other countries have been able to have the meaningful debates that the US really hasn’t had, it was mostly just “spitting in the wind” so to speak. My hope is that in many states we can now have strong limits on abortion after 12 weeks, and that over time the culture of the US can be changed to reduce the number of weeks until a human being is protected at the point of conception.

To my mind this is something that’ll take 30-50 years to achieve if the pro-life movement works hard, and if the pro-life movement accepts incremental victories over time that are sustainable instead of focusing on maximalist victories in the immediate future that won’t be sustainable. The pro-life movement has worked successfully over the course of 50 years to overturn Roe (The Supreme Court and many others at the time assumed that Roe would be widely accepted after a few short years, and they turned out to be wrong), so there is hope they can maintain that drive and patience to get to the point of protecting human life at conception. On the other hand, there is the possibility that the pro-life movement could lose momentum and fall apart now that Roe has been overturned.
There was a clear consensus about abortion, 30 years ago. Clinton's "safe, legal, and rare" was widely accepted by nearly everybody, except the extremists on both sides. That was rooted in the idea that abortion was a moral wrong, but occasionally a necessary one, or the least worst of two bad options. The idea was to make it broadly legal, but to discourage it, by social pressure, and encouraging responsible behavior, and providing other options. The exact boundary was completely arbitrary, and inconsistent, and I think it's the least important part of the discussion. All the attempts to rationalize it by talking about consciousness or anything else are fundamentally irrational. People aren't making decisions because scientists decided X. They going on a gut feeling, a sense of unease and uncertainty.

The only real social compromise that's possible is bundling up that uncertainty, and coming up an arbitrary standard that the majority of people can live with. That means drawing the line fairly conservatively, both because the goal is to encompass a large majority, and also because of the consequences of error are more severe.

I don't think there's any real chance of the abortion window shifting to conception. But I could be wrong. The number of ethical vegetarians are growing, and the laws protecting animals have grown more strict. It's different sides of the political spectrum, but it's the same basic logic. It would be a very different world.

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #636 on: May 16, 2022, 10:30:38 PM »
You get confused from one post to the next. You're just stupid.

I was wondering when you'd rear that shriveled little head of yours.

But you make an interesting point but unfortunately, it's "Not really definable...."

You utter cabbage. :-* :-*

"Not really definable...." "Not really definable...." "Not really definable...."
You're getting dumber every day, and that's impressive because you were already the dumbest person around.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1451
  • Blee
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #637 on: May 16, 2022, 10:41:07 PM »
You get confused from one post to the next. You're just stupid.

I was wondering when you'd rear that shriveled little head of yours.

But you make an interesting point but unfortunately, it's "Not really definable...."

You utter cabbage. :-* :-*

"Not really definable...." "Not really definable...." "Not really definable...."
You're getting dumber every day, and that's impressive because you were already the dumbest person around.

Alzheimers? You've said that over and over. But get it right. That would be the third dumbest, flatPat.

All the attempts to rationalize it by talking about consciousness or anything else are fundamentally irrational.

cowPat "I have a 'pragmatic' approach about to soul n' shit."
Science "Ooooh... This should be interesting what's that little Patty?"
cowPat "it's not really definable...."
Science "Wow... Thanks, you've really helped us out there with the understanding of life. Go you!"
cowPat "But.. But reasons!! That are not really definable."







Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
youtube shit:www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1l7oq7EmlfLT6UEG8MLeg

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #638 on: May 16, 2022, 10:49:10 PM »
You get confused from one post to the next. You're just stupid.

I was wondering when you'd rear that shriveled little head of yours.

But you make an interesting point but unfortunately, it's "Not really definable...."

You utter cabbage. :-* :-*

"Not really definable...." "Not really definable...." "Not really definable...."
You're getting dumber every day, and that's impressive because you were already the dumbest person around.

Alzheimers? You've said that over and over. But get it right. That would be the third dumbest, flatPat.

All the attempts to rationalize it by talking about consciousness or anything else are fundamentally irrational.

cowPat "I have a 'pragmatic' approach about to soul n' shit."
Science "Ooooh... This should be interesting what's that little Patty?"
cowPat "it's not really definable...."
Science "Wow... Thanks, you've really helped us out there with the understanding of life. Go you!"
cowPat "But.. But reasons!! That are not really definable."
This happens to you a lot, doesn't it?

You find an argument you can't understand, and it makes you angry.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1451
  • Blee
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #639 on: May 16, 2022, 10:57:55 PM »
You get confused from one post to the next. You're just stupid.

I was wondering when you'd rear that shriveled little head of yours.

But you make an interesting point but unfortunately, it's "Not really definable...."

You utter cabbage. :-* :-*

"Not really definable...." "Not really definable...." "Not really definable...."
You're getting dumber every day, and that's impressive because you were already the dumbest person around.

Alzheimers? You've said that over and over. But get it right. That would be the third dumbest, flatPat.

All the attempts to rationalize it by talking about consciousness or anything else are fundamentally irrational.

cowPat "I have a 'pragmatic' approach about to soul n' shit."
Science "Ooooh... This should be interesting what's that little Patty?"
cowPat "it's not really definable...."
Science "Wow... Thanks, you've really helped us out there with the understanding of life. Go you!"
cowPat "But.. But reasons!! That are not really definable."
This happens to you a lot, doesn't it?

You find an argument you can't understand, and it makes you angry.

LOL I'm on the ropes with this one.  :o

I don't know, twatPat. You see that's not really an argument is it now? All I see are wishy-washy words ejected from a deeply sweaty man. Who has nothing tangible. 

"Not really definable...."

But I do love your criticisms it must take you hours to come up with them. "You iz dum... You is dumust in duh room...."

Well done! 'Pat' yourself on the back.  :-*








Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
youtube shit:www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1l7oq7EmlfLT6UEG8MLeg

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #640 on: May 16, 2022, 11:08:04 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1451
  • Blee
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #641 on: May 16, 2022, 11:16:54 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

And fattyPatty delivers his coup de grace! Oh wait... I'm thinking of someone else, my apologies.

Oh my! It's just so specific in fact that it's "Not really definable...."

This might help you out here's the definition of 'specific':

"clearly defined or identified."

It's quite clear to me that you're as dumb as a stump. But these little tete-a-tetes provide me with a nice little break while I'm drawing on the compu. So please carry on, fattyPatty. :-*






Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
youtube shit:www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1l7oq7EmlfLT6UEG8MLeg

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #642 on: May 16, 2022, 11:30:02 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

And fattyPatty delivers his coup de grace! Oh wait... I'm thinking of someone else, my apologies.

Oh my! It's just so specific in fact that it's "Not really definable...."

This might help you out here's the definition of 'specific':

"clearly defined or identified."

It's quite clear to me that you're as dumb as a stump. But these little tete-a-tetes provide me with a nice little break while I'm drawing on the compu. So please carry on, fattyPatty. :-*
This compulsion to keep proving you really are the stupidest person present is admirable, in a very dumb way.

Rob Necronomicon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1451
  • Blee
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #643 on: May 16, 2022, 11:31:10 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

And fattyPatty delivers his coup de grace! Oh wait... I'm thinking of someone else, my apologies.

Oh my! It's just so specific in fact that it's "Not really definable...."

This might help you out here's the definition of 'specific':

"clearly defined or identified."

It's quite clear to me that you're as dumb as a stump. But these little tete-a-tetes provide me with a nice little break while I'm drawing on the compu. So please carry on, fattyPatty. :-*
This compulsion to keep proving you really are the stupidest person present is admirable, in a very dumb way.

Was that a dodge?  :-*
Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
youtube shit:www.youtube.com/channel/UCt1l7oq7EmlfLT6UEG8MLeg

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #644 on: May 16, 2022, 11:41:06 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

And fattyPatty delivers his coup de grace! Oh wait... I'm thinking of someone else, my apologies.

Oh my! It's just so specific in fact that it's "Not really definable...."

This might help you out here's the definition of 'specific':

"clearly defined or identified."

It's quite clear to me that you're as dumb as a stump. But these little tete-a-tetes provide me with a nice little break while I'm drawing on the compu. So please carry on, fattyPatty. :-*
This compulsion to keep proving you really are the stupidest person present is admirable, in a very dumb way.

Was that a dodge?  :-*
It's sad you think there was anything to dodge.