Turning the corner on "woke"?

[KingCheops]

He's actually been bringing this up since Trump's election.

Maybe not too surprising since he has a conservative wife. That way, he can't be too far into the bubble.

He's also fairly realistic about things.  You can't win independents and moderates with a radical agenda.

[Zelen]

Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

[Pat]

Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

That's pretty much the perspective of all the supposed moderates on the left.

I still don't understand how this happened. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago, none of these people believed any of this. Then, very suddenly, the extreme of the extreme of the extreme far left became the norm.

[SHARK]

Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

Greetings!

Exactly, Zelen!

Carville has always been a smart guy. Ruthless, scheming, power-hungry, and opportunistic. He simply argues for using ruses, deception, omission, misdirection, like you said, "Don't be obvious." He's always been a liberal fucktard though. He has always been a champion of the Leftist agenda. He, like some of the other Leftists, argue bitterly with the other members of the cult--but people like Carville have different priorities than the average SJW fanatic activist.

Carville's priorities
(1) WINNING
(2) POWER
(3) MONEY
(4) IDEOLOGY

The activists always put Ideology at number 1, so it isn't surprising that there are huge arguments over priorities, and methods, and imaging. Carville is still committed to the ideology though, he just understands imaging, propaganda, and doing what it takes to win and gain power are higher priorities, and which lead to money, influence, and more power, from which your ideology can thereby be enforced and imposed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Trond]

Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

I don't believe this is necessarily the case. Just because you want socialized medical care, and better nature conservation etc doesn't mean that you agree that EVERYTHING has to be about race, or that the police should be abandoned for instance. I know a lot of people on the left, and many of them have been in denial about how strong the far left has gotten. In some cases it dawned on them when the news told them that things happening right before their eyes weren't really happening, in other cases they will never change their minds. People are stubborn like that.

[Zelen]

I don't believe this is necessarily the case...

Sure but Carville is an insider and he's been in politics for decades. He's not a blue dog democrat whose sole attachment to the Democrat party is having been a union member. The modern Democrat party is the party of the oligarchs & the radicals they use to push their agenda, and Carville played a big part in making it that way.

[jhkim]

I don't believe this is necessarily the case. Just because you want socialized medical care, and better nature conservation etc doesn't mean that you agree that EVERYTHING has to be about race, or that the police should be abandoned for instance. I know a lot of people on the left, and many of them have been in denial about how strong the far left has gotten. In some cases it dawned on them when the news told them that things happening right before their eyes weren't really happening, in other cases they will never change their minds. People are stubborn like that.

Sure but Carville is an insider and he's been in politics for decades. He's not a blue dog democrat whose sole attachment to the Democrat party is having been a union member. The modern Democrat party is the party of the oligarchs & the radicals they use to push their agenda, and Carville played a big part in making it that way.

I would say that the modern Democrat party and the modern Republican party are both the party of the oligarchs. The far left has gotten stronger as part of the general trend of increasing partisanship. However, they're still a minority, as demonstrated by Biden getting the nomination - who is far from progressive or radical.

Politics has always been a game of voting for the lesser evil. The mainstream of both parties don't like the radicals / reactionary fringe within their parties -- but they can be forced to adjust some to popularity on some issues. I'd love to see some more cross-party cooperation on points like opposing the increasing power of corporations.

[DragonBane]

The woke are NOT turning a corner towards defeat. They are winning. People are too scared to really speak up.

Look at the culture wars. The non-left has lost every single battle. Biden is president; have you seen the budget he has planned? Nerdrotic is literally running away from California.

No, no "corner" has been turned.

[Ratman_tf]

The woke are NOT turning a corner towards defeat. They are winning. People are too scared to really speak up.

Look at the culture wars. The non-left has lost every single battle. Biden is president; have you seen the budget he has planned? Nerdrotic is literally running away from California.

No, no "corner" has been turned.

We can point at specific instances. VA just got blasted, despite the Democrats trying hard to turn it into their usual "Handmaids racism!" trick.

Hard blue, leftist activist areas are going to hold out for quite a while longer, But there's some hope. No one was talking about Critical Race Theory just a few years ago, and now it was one of the important issues for VA voters.

I'd say we have turned a corner, but there's still a long way to go.

[Ratman_tf]

I don't believe this is necessarily the case. Just because you want socialized medical care, and better nature conservation etc doesn't mean that you agree that EVERYTHING has to be about race, or that the police should be abandoned for instance. I know a lot of people on the left, and many of them have been in denial about how strong the far left has gotten. In some cases it dawned on them when the news told them that things happening right before their eyes weren't really happening, in other cases they will never change their minds. People are stubborn like that.

Sure but Carville is an insider and he's been in politics for decades. He's not a blue dog democrat whose sole attachment to the Democrat party is having been a union member. The modern Democrat party is the party of the oligarchs & the radicals they use to push their agenda, and Carville played a big part in making it that way.

I would say that the modern Democrat party and the modern Republican party are both the party of the oligarchs. The far left has gotten stronger as part of the general trend of increasing partisanship. However, they're still a minority, as demonstrated by Biden getting the nomination - who is far from progressive or radical.

No, but he still pays lip service to radical progressives. When he's awake and not crapping his pants.

[DragonBane]

The woke are NOT turning a corner towards defeat. They are winning. People are too scared to really speak up.

Look at the culture wars. The non-left has lost every single battle. Biden is president; have you seen the budget he has planned? Nerdrotic is literally running away from California.

No, no "corner" has been turned.

We can point at specific instances. VA just got blasted, despite the Democrats trying hard to turn it into their usual "Handmaids racism!" trick.

Hard blue, leftist activist areas are going to hold out for quite a while longer, But there's some hope. No one was talking about Critical Race Theory just a few years ago, and now it was one of the important issues for VA voters.

I'd say we have turned a corner, but there's still a long way to go.

"Specific instances?" You call everything the SJWs have gained "specific instances?" They run the media, academia, the entertainment field, specific hate speech laws in their favor are the law, Biden is PRESIDENT,- how much really changed under Trump?- I could go on and on.

No, not "specific instances." The only "specific instances" are the things the SJWs do NOT dominate. Yet.

[Ghostmaker]

Incrementalism is a thing.

Those of us who've been fighting gun control know this. And sometimes, you can't get a sweeping victory. So take what you can and plan for the next push.

[Banjo Destructo]

Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

That's pretty much the perspective of all the supposed moderates on the left.

I still don't understand how this happened. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago, none of these people believed any of this. Then, very suddenly, the extreme of the extreme of the extreme far left became the norm.

Hilary Clinton wanted to push some kind of healthcare for everyone plan back when she was first lady during her husband's presidency, so that was 1992-2000,  20-30 years ago.   I think most of the people at the top of the DNC, Democratic Party have been basically some form of progressive, or a marxist, or sympathetic to the USSR and other communist revolutions for over 40 years now, they just haven't been publicly obvious about it. Now there are younger people who don't feel ashamed of believing in this stuff, while the older people still want to hide it, but it has been there for a long time.

[jhkim]

I would say that the modern Democrat party and the modern Republican party are both the party of the oligarchs. The far left has gotten stronger as part of the general trend of increasing partisanship. However, they're still a minority, as demonstrated by Biden getting the nomination - who is far from progressive or radical.

No, but he still pays lip service to radical progressives.

Fair enough, but as you say, it is lip service that isn't reflected in his actions and policy.

I still don't understand how this happened. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago, none of these people believed any of this. Then, very suddenly, the extreme of the extreme of the extreme far left became the norm.

Hilary Clinton wanted to push some kind of healthcare for everyone plan back when she was first lady during her husband's presidency, so that was 1992-2000,  20-30 years ago.   I think most of the people at the top of the DNC, Democratic Party have been basically some form of progressive, or a marxist, or sympathetic to the USSR and other communist revolutions for over 40 years now, they just haven't been publicly obvious about it.

Truman and JFK both pushed universal health care decades earlier, and the creation of Medicare and Medicaid were compromises to that. But if you define universal health care as openly communist, then Israel is openly communist -- along with Japan, South Korea, Australia, and every other First World country with the exception of the U.S. That doesn't seem like a useful distinction.

[Pat]

Hilary Clinton wanted to push some kind of healthcare for everyone plan back when she was first lady during her husband's presidency, so that was 1992-2000,  20-30 years ago.   I think most of the people at the top of the DNC, Democratic Party have been basically some form of progressive, or a marxist, or sympathetic to the USSR and other communist revolutions for over 40 years now, they just haven't been publicly obvious about it.

Truman and JFK both pushed universal health care decades earlier, and the creation of Medicare and Medicaid were compromises to that. But if you define universal health care as openly communist, then Israel is openly communist -- along with Japan, South Korea, Australia, and every other First World country with the exception of the U.S. That doesn't seem like a useful distinction.

By that logic, identifying cancerous tumors in your body isn't a useful distinction.