This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Turning the corner on "woke"?  (Read 107173 times)

Merrill
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • ?
  • Posts: 152
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #120 on: July 07, 2021, 09:11:50 AM »
While CRT is kept deliberately nebulous, as others here have pointed out, there are some underlying assumptions that can be pointed out:

1. Any "criminal action" committed by a POC is a direct consequence of environment, and that environment/circumstance, is something created by the oppressive "other". That "other" is whiteness/white people. The consequences of this are a) the "fault" here lies with the oppressor, b) the action cannot be considered criminal

Now if you say that to someone who espouses CRT, they will scream it is a distortion. But then ask them questions regarding black-on-black crime, and see how fast they start framing things in relation to white power structures and systems of oppression. Through every circumlocution, they will affirm the point above, and not even know it.

When the BLM buses showed up in my city, dudes poured out and started looting and burning, assaulting people, etc., anyone who complained about it was asked to "check their privilege", or to understand how their own racism contributed to this "rightful rage". Again, white people are responsible for the burning of their own cities.

2. Systemic Racism is not something proven through empirical or logical means. It is always assumed in hindsight through "de facto" reasoning. Less black were admitted to a school than whites? The explanation has to be racism. More blacks in jail than whites? It is impossible that blocks commit more crimes --has to be racism.

3. White people of every background and ethnicity are thrown into one big entity called whiteness, and that supergroup is directly responsible for every human evil and system of oppression. The dehumanization of this group is a hallmark of CRT, and is historical. The Hutus dehumanized the Tutsis, Nazis the Jews, Bolsheviks the Ukrainians, etc. There is always a group out there that needs to be targeted because it has special privileges and rights, and because it is fundamentally evil

There are many other aspects to CRT, but the most important things are the political, ideological, and rhetorical objectives of the movement (it really isn't a school of thought, it is a movement). Those are revolutionary: the overthrow of capitalism, destruction of whiteness (white people), and the dictatorship of POC.

Now it should be said that Derrick Bell, the guy who basically created CRT from Neo-Marxism / Critical Theory back in the 1980s did not foresee or understand the full implications of where he was going with all of this. He once said:

"Power in the hands of the reformed is no less corrupting than in the hands of the oppressor"

So what happened? Well white women got a hold of this (Peggy McIntosh and others), and it became more radicalized. Black activists seized upon CRT without fully understanding the original ideas and began generalizing them, twisting them for specific purposes, etc. Much in the same way that Mao admitted that he didn't read much Marx or Lenin, wasn't any kind of Communist scholar, but that didn't matter. He was out for practical results.

---

Guys, no one is obligated to consider or respect such a pernicious and irrational system of thought / movement. I have been at gaming conventions drinking with fellow attendees when some dude starts going into his CRT platform, expecting that others will nod in agreement. He is shocked when I countersignal him hard, and begin shutting down his irrationalism and ignorance on the spot.

As a former college instructor (previous life --never again!), you just don't get to say a bunch of stupid shit in front of me and expect me to go along with it. Expect to be challenged.

---

And we know that in gaming, CRT has made big inroads in subtle ways. White characters, ethnic groups, and cultures are erased from books, supplements, or whole systems. Slavery becomes a forbidden topic. "Alternative" lifestyles are celebrated. Gaming companies signal hard on every "progressive issue" --and all of this is mostly out of fear.

Daztur

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1399
  • Classical Libertarian
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #121 on: July 08, 2021, 12:46:14 AM »


I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

Zelen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 861
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #122 on: July 08, 2021, 01:04:55 AM »
*A new bad faith argument has arrived!*

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4032
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #123 on: July 08, 2021, 01:05:00 AM »
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

He says adjusting his three masks to more completely cover his face.
Who da Drow?  U da drow! - hedgehobbit

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

SHARK

  • The Great Shark Hope
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5039
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #124 on: July 08, 2021, 01:37:15 AM »
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

He says adjusting his three masks to more completely cover his face.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Nice, Shasarak! So true! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8330
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #125 on: July 08, 2021, 02:31:14 AM »
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

Some of us have been concerned about Critical Theory for years now.

https://twitter.com/themitchellfink/status/1412909635099529219

Do try to keep up.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

deathknight4044

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • d
  • Posts: 79
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #126 on: July 08, 2021, 07:15:26 AM »


I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #127 on: July 08, 2021, 08:10:19 AM »
CRT: it doesn't actually exist but we need to teach it in school, because reasons.

Trond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2743
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #128 on: July 08, 2021, 09:27:38 AM »

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

“Microaggressions” are very much a CRT thing. Ever heard of that? Ring a bell? Because BLM used it to try to ruin Comic-Con when I went there years ago, and more recently they were pushing it at my workplace. But those are just my personal experiences.

Merrill
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • ?
  • Posts: 152
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #129 on: July 08, 2021, 09:43:25 AM »

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

“Microaggressions” are very much a CRT thing. Ever heard of that? Ring a bell? Because BLM used it to try to ruin Comic-Con when I went there years ago, and more recently they were pushing it at my workplace. But those are just my personal experiences.

what happened at Comin-Con?

don't think I heard about that

moonsweeper

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 944
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #130 on: July 08, 2021, 10:48:08 AM »
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

Some of us have been concerned about Critical Theory for years now.

https://twitter.com/themitchellfink/status/1412909635099529219

Do try to keep up.

Hell, this thread itself is almost a month old... ::)
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

Pat
BANNED

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 5252
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #131 on: July 08, 2021, 01:26:32 PM »
CRT: it doesn't actually exist but we need to teach it in school, because reasons.
NPR did an interview a couple weeks ago with a professor at some university. She said they only teach Critical Race Theory to graduate students, and only some of them, when it's relevant to their studies. The whole thrust of the piece was the worry about CRT in primary school was complete nonsense, because it's this very advanced and esoteric set of concepts that nobody's exposed to until they're Masters students, so all the parents are idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. Except NPR never talked to a primary school teacher, or to any of the people with concerns about CRT being taught to children.

It's evasion based on technical definitions. NPR is saying children aren't reading Gramsci and Crenshaw. Which is correct, but completely dishonest. Because people aren't concerned their children are being formally taught about CRT as a body of scholarship. They're concerned that the principles and conclusions of CRT are being incorporated into primary school education. Which is absolutely happening, as can be seen in things like the 1619 Project.

The dismissal of those concerns is completely two-faced, and the National Education Association's moves in the last few days is a perfect example. They started by passing a motion that supported CRT, with the clear intent to keep pushing it despite the resistance of parents, and then almost immediately started scrubbing their website of all traces of CRT. That goes beyond strawmanning the arguments of their opposition, as NPR did. It's blatant hypocrisy. The NEA are overtly supporting it, then pretending it doesn't exist when they're criticized.

Edit: Fixed a timing issue.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 02:28:43 PM by Pat »

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4013
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #132 on: July 08, 2021, 01:38:39 PM »
CRT: it doesn't actually exist but we need to teach it in school, because reasons.
NPR did an interview a couple weeks ago with a professor at some university. She said they only teach Critical Race Theory to graduate students, and only some of them, when it's relevant to their studies. The whole thrust of the piece was the worry about CRT in primary school was complete nonsense, because it's this very advanced and esoteric set of concepts that nobody's exposed to until they're Masters students, so all the parents are idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. NPR never talked to a primary school teacher, or to any of the people with concerns about CRT being taught to children.

It's evasion based on technical definitions. NPR is saying children aren't reading Gramsci and Crenshaw. Which is correct, but completely dishonest. Because people aren't concerned their children are being formally taught about CRT as a body of scholarship. They're concerned that the principles and conclusions of CRT are being incorporated into primary school education. Which is absolutely happening, as can be seen in things like the 1619 Project.

The dismissal of those concerns is completely two-faced, and the National Education Association's moves in the last few days is a perfect example. They started by passing a motion that supported CRT, with the clear intent to keep pushing it despite the resistance of parents, while at the same time they're scrubbing their website of all traces of CRT. That goes beyond strawmanning the arguments of their opposition. It's blatant hypocrisy. They're overtly supporting it, while pretending it doesn't exist.
Personally, I could support teaching CRT... as long as it's done in the original German.


Trond

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2743
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #133 on: July 08, 2021, 03:55:09 PM »

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

“Microaggressions” are very much a CRT thing. Ever heard of that? Ring a bell? Because BLM used it to try to ruin Comic-Con when I went there years ago, and more recently they were pushing it at my workplace. But those are just my personal experiences.

what happened at Comin-Con?

don't think I heard about that

This was several years ago. BLM were present and sort of milling around in the hallways, asking people to look out for microaggressions. Some people clapped, but you could tell it didn't actually make people more jolly. Something I didn't see personally was that they found someone to pounce on. It was filmed and shared on youtube (I can't find it right now, maybe removed), showing some white (?) woman dressed up as Whoopi Goldberg (Sister Act I believe) being attacked and shouted at for wearing blackface. I never saw her face clearly but I honestly don't care if she smeared shoe polish all over; she was a fan of Whoopi, not someone making fun of black people.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 07:11:45 PM by Trond »

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4007
Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #134 on: July 09, 2021, 04:34:53 PM »


I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

   Fringe?  1. Fauci lied about what he knew.  Flat out.  2. Boys competing against girls is not fringe, and you are about to see some bullshit popping off if that becomes a federal issue.   3. CRT is pushed right now in education.   In class?  No, but pushed HARD on teachers in many states right now?  Damn right. 

   You are going to find out the word fringe may not mean what you think it does.  If you mess around with people's kids it is literally the ONE thing you dumb fucks might be able to do to get violence out of them.  I suggest you stop.