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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: DocJones on June 12, 2021, 02:40:00 PM

Title: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on June 12, 2021, 02:40:00 PM
Not a fan of rap, hip hop or whatever the kids are calling it these days.
However I couldn't help noticing that this guy's mocking the woke songs are hitting #1 on iTunes.
Tom MacDonald’s “Snowflakes” Reaches #1 On All-Genre US iTunes Sales Chart (https://headlineplanet.com/home/2021/06/04/tom-macdonalds-snowflakes-reaches-1-on-all-genre-us-itunes-sales-chart/)


Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on June 15, 2021, 01:36:43 PM
Not a fan of rap, hip hop or whatever the kids are calling it these days.
However I couldn't help noticing that this guy's mocking the woke songs are hitting #1 on iTunes.
Tom MacDonald’s “Snowflakes” Reaches #1 On All-Genre US iTunes Sales Chart (https://headlineplanet.com/home/2021/06/04/tom-macdonalds-snowflakes-reaches-1-on-all-genre-us-itunes-sales-chart/)

That's something to take note of for sure. Is it turning a corner? Not sure, we'll see what happens next.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on June 15, 2021, 04:04:29 PM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on June 15, 2021, 07:25:42 PM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.

I take it as a good sign that parents are getting pissed enough to show up and complain.

I found out about Tom Macdonald a few months ago. Really like his stuff. It's boilerplate anti-woke, but he puts a lot of energy into his songs and videos.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on June 17, 2021, 03:37:58 AM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.

I take it as a good sign that parents are getting pissed enough to show up and complain.

I found out about Tom Macdonald a few months ago. Really like his stuff. It's boilerplate anti-woke, but he puts a lot of energy into his songs and videos.

  Well, I have a friend who is a teacher.  He has had two mandatory "training sessions" that were all out CRT.  The people pushing the shit screech you must define it for them and say it is not in the classroom (yet every teacher is being beaten over the head with it).  So parents being pissed still means jack shit IMO.  This is just the school district where I live (which is a pretty red county) so I have no idea if real action is taking place beyond people complaining, and them summarily being labeled racists.  So we will see.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on June 17, 2021, 08:18:28 AM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.

I take it as a good sign that parents are getting pissed enough to show up and complain.

I found out about Tom Macdonald a few months ago. Really like his stuff. It's boilerplate anti-woke, but he puts a lot of energy into his songs and videos.

  Well, I have a friend who is a teacher.  He has had two mandatory "training sessions" that were all out CRT.  The people pushing the shit screech you must define it for them and say it is not in the classroom (yet every teacher is being beaten over the head with it).  So parents being pissed still means jack shit IMO.  This is just the school district where I live (which is a pretty red county) so I have no idea if real action is taking place beyond people complaining, and them summarily being labeled racists.  So we will see.
Not necessarily. There have been multiple events of parents showing up for school board meetings and ripping into them, to the point of at least one board fleeing the damn meeting.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/06/progressives_betray_their_panic_over_grass_roots_campaign_to_elect_school_boards_to_stop_crt.html

They are NOT having it all their way. And they only have themselves to blame.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on June 18, 2021, 10:07:55 AM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.

I take it as a good sign that parents are getting pissed enough to show up and complain.

I found out about Tom Macdonald a few months ago. Really like his stuff. It's boilerplate anti-woke, but he puts a lot of energy into his songs and videos.

  Well, I have a friend who is a teacher.  He has had two mandatory "training sessions" that were all out CRT.  The people pushing the shit screech you must define it for them and say it is not in the classroom (yet every teacher is being beaten over the head with it).  So parents being pissed still means jack shit IMO.  This is just the school district where I live (which is a pretty red county) so I have no idea if real action is taking place beyond people complaining, and them summarily being labeled racists.  So we will see.
Not necessarily. There have been multiple events of parents showing up for school board meetings and ripping into them, to the point of at least one board fleeing the damn meeting.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/06/progressives_betray_their_panic_over_grass_roots_campaign_to_elect_school_boards_to_stop_crt.html

They are NOT having it all their way. And they only have themselves to blame.

  That is simply hopium IMO.  People complaining out loud means nothing.  It is like getting a rise out of Rand Paul jumping down fauci's throat for shit anyone with a modicum of sense would have long theorized.  Or disclosure about handling of emails that would have sent a grunt to prison.  No one got punished, and never will.    I will believe it when superintendants get fired and school board members replaced whole sale.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on June 18, 2021, 10:24:30 AM
Complaining out loud is what it takes if you ask me. People are generally terrified of being “the only one” who thinks something for themselves.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on June 18, 2021, 10:25:47 AM
Complaining out loud is what it takes if you ask me. People are generally terrified of being “the only one” who thinks something for themselves.

   I agree with that.  But without follow up action, it means nothing beyond noise.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on June 18, 2021, 11:32:55 AM
Complaining out loud is what it takes if you ask me. People are generally terrified of being “the only one” who thinks something for themselves.

   I agree with that.  But without follow up action, it means nothing beyond noise.
What action would you suggest?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on June 18, 2021, 12:56:23 PM
Complaining out loud is what it takes if you ask me. People are generally terrified of being “the only one” who thinks something for themselves.

   I agree with that.  But without follow up action, it means nothing beyond noise.
What action would you suggest?
   The supers for these schools who allow it in need to be fired, immediately.  If they are not, ALL the board members need to be replaced, and then fire the supers. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 12:55:06 AM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

On the other hand, "woke" is and has always been stupid when taken out of the context of Black culture. It's a phrase coined by black folks in the South to talk about other folks (usually white but occasionally black or other race) and how well they understand what black folks go through on a daily basis. If anyone who passes the paper bag test is talking about wokeness in any form, I feel completely free to ignore them as uninformed, whether they are on the left or the right side of the spectrum.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 01:01:12 AM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

Your information is 50 years outdated. Critical Race Theory hasn't spent the past five decades frozen in time.

In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you only have to look into how they re-define terms and their basic assumptions about Theory.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 01:09:10 AM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.
Absolute horseshit. People argued and fought against all of that, long before Critical Race Theory raised its racist head. Critical Race Theory wasn't the champion that fought against even of one of those things, all it's doing is appropriating distorted versions of those events, long after the fact, to spread a virulently hateful message.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 01:33:02 AM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

Your information is 50 years outdated. Critical Race Theory hasn't spent the past five decades frozen in time.

In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you only have to look into how they re-define terms and their basic assumptions about Theory.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

Critical Theory and the Frankfurt School are a separate thing from Critical Race Theory, and your conflating them leaves me astonished and bewildered. It's like assuming that neoliberalism and libertarianism are the same thing because they have liber- as a shared root. Believe you me, I've read both recent and seminal works in Critical Race Theory, and your argument fails.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 02, 2021, 01:54:47 AM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

Are we really buying into the propaganda in all of these issues?

I mean that sincerely. The CRT theory people are malicious liars who have demonstrated quite amply they don't care who they hurt with their lies, who lives or who dies, as long as they can profit from fomenting racial division.

What happened in Tulsa 100 years ago? No one really knows besides about 20 people (black & white) were killed after clashing over a sex crime(?) incident. After that? Well, what happened in dozens of major American cities last year? Is it at all possible that these were similar events?

Redlining? What exactly was going on here? Obviously a complex topic, but one in which, again, we see the range of acceptable discourse seems to narrow as the CRT types gain power and start using social bullying tactics to shut people up. Not all scholars agree, and I've seen some analysis that demonstrated (IMO) that these supposedly racist policies were actually reasonable financially sound policy. When government tried stepping in to "correct" the lending/homeownership problem they gave us the 2008 housing crash.

Sundown towns? Isn't it weird how we have all these scary names for things white people allegedly did a century ago (I'm sure there's some truth to it, but also a lot of motivated exaggeration), but our lexicon of ominous phrases doesn't have a word for the same phenomenon happening to whites?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 02:09:59 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds. Anti-racism training is an insane mish-mash of several things, including a warped view of CRT, usually pushed by people who don't know why anti-racism can be useful or important, and the actual trainings (including 90% of the ones I've been subjected to) are almost always poorly executed or so basic to be useless. Yes, everyone knows that racism is bad, and looking at ways in which the deck is stacked against people who aren't white (or white *enough* in some times and places) can be useful. But hearing for the eighth or ninth time in a 40-hour "training" that "white privilege" and "white fragility" need to be accepted (without going in-depth into what exactly those two phrases are shorthand for) before "racial healing" (again, left undefined) can begin is really difficult to swallow....

Unless you've had the 15 semester-hours that I've had on Critical Race Theory, Cultural Encounters and Reflection, Clinical Pastoral Education, and Imago Dei (M.Div. branch of understanding these things) that build a picture of just how fucked up the United States is on race relations. I had one class that was led by a Tejano whose family had lived in the San Antonio area since the 1500's, had an ancestor who got out of the Alamo before the Mexicans closed in, and was told by a guy whose parents were refugees from WWII Poland that he should "Leave the US to us Americans." in my presence. These things are really, really tricky and need some time to work through and nuanced discussion. They don't work so well in soundbites or "trainings" that are designed (even by well-meaning people) to make a buck and cover HR-required Continuing Education hours.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 02:11:18 AM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

On the other hand, "woke" is and has always been stupid when taken out of the context of Black culture. It's a phrase coined by black folks in the South to talk about other folks (usually white but occasionally black or other race) and how well they understand what black folks go through on a daily basis. If anyone who passes the paper bag test is talking about wokeness in any form, I feel completely free to ignore them as uninformed, whether they are on the left or the right side of the spectrum.

Absolute nonsense your presentation of it is a trojan horse. You know we can read the work of people like Robin DeAngelo online for free right? Its anti White libel and will be fought at every turn.

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, if the use of the terms Wuhan virus or kung flu instigate violence against Asians, how is the constant charges of white supremacy, white fragility, white rage, oppressor etc not instigate violence against my race? How is "deadnaming" or referring to a tranny by their actual sex "violence" yet constant vilification of White European peoples is a okay? This game has gone on for long enough.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 02:16:06 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds. Anti-racism training is an insane mish-mash of several things, including a warped view of CRT, usually pushed by people who don't know why anti-racism can be useful or important, and the actual trainings (including 90% of the ones I've been subjected to) are almost always poorly executed or so basic to be useless. Yes, everyone knows that racism is bad, and looking at ways in which the deck is stacked against people who aren't white (or white *enough* in some times and places) can be useful. But hearing for the eighth or ninth time in a 40-hour "training" that "white privilege" and "white fragility" need to be accepted (without going in-depth into what exactly those two phrases are shorthand for) before "racial healing" (again, left undefined) can begin is really difficult to swallow....

Unless you've had the 15 semester-hours that I've had on Critical Race Theory, Cultural Encounters and Reflection, Clinical Pastoral Education, and Imago Dei (M.Div. branch of understanding these things) that build a picture of just how fucked up the United States is on race relations. I had one class that was led by a Tejano whose family had lived in the San Antonio area since the 1500's, had an ancestor who got out of the Alamo before the Mexicans closed in, and was told by a guy whose parents were refugees from WWII Poland that he should "Leave the US to us Americans." in my presence. These things are really, really tricky and need some time to work through and nuanced discussion. They don't work so well in soundbites or "trainings" that are designed (even by well-meaning people) to make a buck and cover HR-required Continuing Education hours.


"Unless youve been indoctrinated as I have, you arent allowed to have an opinion about our systemic vilification of White western people". Yeah man its so esoteric it's not like we can read the works of proponents of critical race theory like Robin DeAngelo, or the training material that teachers are being given, or the training corporation's like Disney and coca cola are pushing on to their employees.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 02:26:59 AM
Sundown towns? Isn't it weird how we have all these scary names for things white people allegedly did a century ago (I'm sure there's some truth to it, but also a lot of motivated exaggeration), but our lexicon of ominous phrases doesn't have a word for the same phenomenon happening to whites?

Just on this one: I'm curious if you know of any US townships or counties where, by law, if you were white, you couldn't stay overnight (even in a payed lodging) without being arrested and thrown in jail for vagrancy. There were several of those for nonwhites in the early-to-mid twentieth century US. In fact, Washington Territory (now Washington State) actually declared a handful of Black families "officially white" when they passed their restrictive "anti-Negro" laws preventing any black person from owning real property.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 02:40:40 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.
Nope, never listened to Fox News. My only exposure to any of their shows is watching the (not complimentary) Outfoxed documentary.

And you're the one who's claiming that Critical Race Theory is behind the Civil Rights Movement, when in fact it was created by Harvard scholars in the 60s and 70s, after, and in response to the successes of, the Civil Right Movement. And you can't weasel your way of the out the timing by claiming you were referring to something broader, because another poster referred back to the older Critical Theory, and you rejected that and said you're referring to Critical Race Theory in specific.

So your entire first post, which tries to credit all kinds of earlier historical events to Critical Race Theory, is completely and objectively wrong. Which you can't defend, so you're just making unsubstantiated claims that everybody else knows nothing.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 02, 2021, 02:47:35 AM
Just on this one: I'm curious if you know of any US townships or counties where, by law, if you were white, you couldn't stay overnight (even in a payed lodging) without being arrested and thrown in jail for vagrancy. There were several of those for nonwhites in the early-to-mid twentieth century US. In fact, Washington Territory (now Washington State) actually declared a handful of Black families "officially white" when they passed their restrictive "anti-Negro" laws preventing any black person from owning real property.

No doubt that's awful. I'm not sure if that's fundamentally any different than being under threat of grievous bodily injury for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For legal codification? I don't think that exists yet, but give it another few years.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 02:48:23 AM

"Unless youve been indoctrinated as I have, you arent allowed to have an opinion about our systemic vilification of White western people". Yeah man its so esoteric it's not like we can read the works of proponents of critical race theory like Robin DeAngelo, or the training material that teachers are being given, or the training corporation's like Disney and coca cola are pushing on to their employees.

Not what I was saying, but you do you. You can have any opinion you want, you can feel as vilified as you want, but I put it down to jargon. I mean, "white fragility" and "non-whites are better at this than whites are" (which are entirely from one person's academic work, mind you) are jarring to hear without a lot of context and conversations that need to occur in a better setting than with online randos like me.

But, no, it isn't supposed to be a vilification. It's part of a conversation about race that noticed, like you've shown, as soon as racial issues come up, a lot of white folk get really defensive. Why is that? I've seen it happen again and again in conversations I've had -- in fact, until I got my nose rubbed in it when I was 20, I was much the same way -- and "white fragility" is one way to shorthand what's going on.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 02:52:37 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.
Nope, never listened to Fox News. My only exposure to any of their shows is watching the (not complimentary) Outfoxed documentary.

And you're the one who's claiming that Critical Race Theory is behind the Civil Rights Movement, when in fact it was created by Harvard scholars in the 60s and 70s, after, and in response to the successes of, the Civil Right Movement. And you can't weasel your way of the out the timing by claiming you were referring to something broader, because another poster referred back to the older Critical Theory, and you rejected that and said you're referring to Critical Race Theory in specific.

So your entire first post, which tries to credit all kinds of earlier historical events to Critical Race Theory, is completely and objectively wrong. Which you can't defend, so you're just making unsubstantiated claims that everybody else knows nothing.

Critical Race Theory explores how the surrounding structures of laws allowed those things to happen. I didn't claim that it was behind the Civil Rights Movement. That would be absurd, and you probably got the idea from the individual who conflated Critical Race Theory (mostly started in the 1970s) with Critical Theory/the Frankfurt School (that got its start in 1920's Germany). I don't get how you managed to misread me that badly.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 02:55:45 AM
Quote
But, no, it isn't supposed to be a vilification. It's part of a conversation about race that noticed, like you've shown, as soon as racial issues come up, a lot of white folk get really defensive. Why is that? I've seen it happen again and again in conversations I've had -- in fact, until I got my nose rubbed in it when I was 20, I was much the same way -- and "white fragility" is one way to shorthand what's going on.
[/quote

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, if the use of the terms Wuhan virus or kung flu instigate violence against Asians, how is the constant charges of white supremacy, white fragility, white rage, oppressor etc not instigate violence against my race? Why is the former a valid concern and the latter "fragile"?

At this point I encourage you to keep pushing. This is fueling White racial consciousness and White identity in a way that was inconceivable just a few short years ago. I say keep going.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 02:59:16 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.
Nope, never listened to Fox News. My only exposure to any of their shows is watching the (not complimentary) Outfoxed documentary.

And you're the one who's claiming that Critical Race Theory is behind the Civil Rights Movement, when in fact it was created by Harvard scholars in the 60s and 70s, after, and in response to the successes of, the Civil Right Movement. And you can't weasel your way of the out the timing by claiming you were referring to something broader, because another poster referred back to the older Critical Theory, and you rejected that and said you're referring to Critical Race Theory in specific.

So your entire first post, which tries to credit all kinds of earlier historical events to Critical Race Theory, is completely and objectively wrong. Which you can't defend, so you're just making unsubstantiated claims that everybody else knows nothing.

Critical Race Theory explores how the surrounding structures of laws allowed those things to happen. I didn't claim that it was behind the Civil Rights Movement. That would be absurd, and you probably got the idea from the individual who conflated Critical Race Theory (mostly started in the 1970s) with Critical Theory/the Frankfurt School (that got its start in 1920's Germany). I don't get how you managed to misread me that badly.
I didn't misread anything. You literally said: "In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws...."

That's an explicit claim that Critical Race Theory owns those events, and all the other ones you named elsewhere in the paragraph. That Critical Race Theory is so enwrapped in those events, that arguing against Critical Race Theory is tantamount to supporting those events.

But, as I pointed out, all those events occurred, and were overcome, before Critical Race Theory even existed. They were defeated by the liberal principles, like equal treatment under the law, that Critical Race Theory has come to completely reject.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 02:59:43 AM
Sundown towns? Isn't it weird how we have all these scary names for things white people allegedly did a century ago (I'm sure there's some truth to it, but also a lot of motivated exaggeration), but our lexicon of ominous phrases doesn't have a word for the same phenomenon happening to whites?

Just on this one: I'm curious if you know of any US townships or counties where, by law, if you were white, you couldn't stay overnight (even in a payed lodging) without being arrested and thrown in jail for vagrancy. There were several of those for nonwhites in the early-to-mid twentieth century US. In fact, Washington Territory (now Washington State) actually declared a handful of Black families "officially white" when they passed their restrictive "anti-Negro" laws preventing any black person from owning real property.

And I should care more about this than the obscenely asymmetrical rates of interracial murder and rape committed against my race for the past 60 years?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 03:02:21 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds. Anti-racism training is an insane mish-mash of several things, including a warped view of CRT, usually pushed by people who don't know why anti-racism can be useful or important, and the actual trainings (including 90% of the ones I've been subjected to) are almost always poorly executed or so basic to be useless. Yes, everyone knows that racism is bad, and looking at ways in which the deck is stacked against people who aren't white (or white *enough* in some times and places) can be useful. But hearing for the eighth or ninth time in a 40-hour "training" that "white privilege" and "white fragility" need to be accepted (without going in-depth into what exactly those two phrases are shorthand for) before "racial healing" (again, left undefined) can begin is really difficult to swallow....

Unless you've had the 15 semester-hours that I've had on Critical Race Theory, Cultural Encounters and Reflection, Clinical Pastoral Education, and Imago Dei (M.Div. branch of understanding these things) that build a picture of just how fucked up the United States is on race relations. I had one class that was led by a Tejano whose family had lived in the San Antonio area since the 1500's, had an ancestor who got out of the Alamo before the Mexicans closed in, and was told by a guy whose parents were refugees from WWII Poland that he should "Leave the US to us Americans." in my presence. These things are really, really tricky and need some time to work through and nuanced discussion. They don't work so well in soundbites or "trainings" that are designed (even by well-meaning people) to make a buck and cover HR-required Continuing Education hours.

I hear that you can't really understand Scientology unless you complete all the OT programs.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 03:17:27 AM

"Unless youve been indoctrinated as I have, you arent allowed to have an opinion about our systemic vilification of White western people". Yeah man its so esoteric it's not like we can read the works of proponents of critical race theory like Robin DeAngelo, or the training material that teachers are being given, or the training corporation's like Disney and coca cola are pushing on to their employees.

Not what I was saying, but you do you. You can have any opinion you want, you can feel as vilified as you want, but I put it down to jargon. I mean, "white fragility" and "non-whites are better at this than whites are" (which are entirely from one person's academic work, mind you) are jarring to hear without a lot of context and conversations that need to occur in a better setting than with online randos like me.

But, no, it isn't supposed to be a vilification. It's part of a conversation about race that noticed, like you've shown, as soon as racial issues come up, a lot of white folk get really defensive. Why is that? I've seen it happen again and again in conversations I've had -- in fact, until I got my nose rubbed in it when I was 20, I was much the same way -- and "white fragility" is one way to shorthand what's going on.

White fragility is a deflection from criticism by accusing, either implicitly or explicitly, that the subject is racist and in denial. It's a very sophisticated version of "Have you stopped beating your wife?" It's also a term made popular by a women who is an admitted racist and, in my opinion, projects her racism onto white people in general.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 03:18:43 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.
Nope, never listened to Fox News. My only exposure to any of their shows is watching the (not complimentary) Outfoxed documentary.

And you're the one who's claiming that Critical Race Theory is behind the Civil Rights Movement, when in fact it was created by Harvard scholars in the 60s and 70s, after, and in response to the successes of, the Civil Right Movement. And you can't weasel your way of the out the timing by claiming you were referring to something broader, because another poster referred back to the older Critical Theory, and you rejected that and said you're referring to Critical Race Theory in specific.

So your entire first post, which tries to credit all kinds of earlier historical events to Critical Race Theory, is completely and objectively wrong. Which you can't defend, so you're just making unsubstantiated claims that everybody else knows nothing.

Critical Race Theory explores how the surrounding structures of laws allowed those things to happen. I didn't claim that it was behind the Civil Rights Movement. That would be absurd, and you probably got the idea from the individual who conflated Critical Race Theory (mostly started in the 1970s) with Critical Theory/the Frankfurt School (that got its start in 1920's Germany). I don't get how you managed to misread me that badly.
I didn't misread anything. You literally said: "In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws...."

That's an explicit claim that Critical Race Theory owns those events, and all the other ones you named elsewhere in the paragraph. That Critical Race Theory is so enwrapped in those events, that arguing against Critical Race Theory is tantamount to supporting those events.

But, as I pointed out, all those events occurred, and were overcome, before Critical Race Theory even existed. They were defeated by the liberal principles, like equal treatment under the law, that Critical Race Theory has come to completely reject.

Again, Critical Race Theory is a historical study of how laws in the United States were used, and continue to be used, to keep White folks above folks who were/are seen as not-White. The Jim Crow laws are a clear case of laws that were used for right near a century to keep non-White folks below White folks in society. The fact that most of the Jim Crow laws were struck down by Federal Courts (including the Supreme Court) over the objections of state-level courts, and why that was, is part of the question.

As far as I know, Critical Race Theory doesn't reject the *principle* of equal treatment under the law, but it deeply questions whether the current United States criminal justice system actually *practices* equal treatment under the law (for instance, the difference in incarceration rates for black males vs. white males on non-distribution possession of a controlled substance laws, which is vast).
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 03:35:04 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.
Nope, never listened to Fox News. My only exposure to any of their shows is watching the (not complimentary) Outfoxed documentary.

And you're the one who's claiming that Critical Race Theory is behind the Civil Rights Movement, when in fact it was created by Harvard scholars in the 60s and 70s, after, and in response to the successes of, the Civil Right Movement. And you can't weasel your way of the out the timing by claiming you were referring to something broader, because another poster referred back to the older Critical Theory, and you rejected that and said you're referring to Critical Race Theory in specific.

So your entire first post, which tries to credit all kinds of earlier historical events to Critical Race Theory, is completely and objectively wrong. Which you can't defend, so you're just making unsubstantiated claims that everybody else knows nothing.

Critical Race Theory explores how the surrounding structures of laws allowed those things to happen. I didn't claim that it was behind the Civil Rights Movement. That would be absurd, and you probably got the idea from the individual who conflated Critical Race Theory (mostly started in the 1970s) with Critical Theory/the Frankfurt School (that got its start in 1920's Germany). I don't get how you managed to misread me that badly.
I didn't misread anything. You literally said: "In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws...."

That's an explicit claim that Critical Race Theory owns those events, and all the other ones you named elsewhere in the paragraph. That Critical Race Theory is so enwrapped in those events, that arguing against Critical Race Theory is tantamount to supporting those events.

But, as I pointed out, all those events occurred, and were overcome, before Critical Race Theory even existed. They were defeated by the liberal principles, like equal treatment under the law, that Critical Race Theory has come to completely reject.

Again, Critical Race Theory is a historical study of how laws in the United States were used, and continue to be used, to keep White folks above folks who were/are seen as not-White. The Jim Crow laws are a clear case of laws that were used for right near a century to keep non-White folks below White folks in society. The fact that most of the Jim Crow laws were struck down by Federal Courts (including the Supreme Court) over the objections of state-level courts, and why that was, is part of the question.

As far as I know, Critical Race Theory doesn't reject the *principle* of equal treatment under the law, but it deeply questions whether the current United States criminal justice system actually *practices* equal treatment under the law (for instance, the difference in incarceration rates for black males vs. white males on non-distribution possession of a controlled substance laws, which is vast).
None of that has anything to do with what I said. Once again, you avoid the issue, this time by being a patronizing little asshole.

The actual topic: You literally claimed that anyone who argues against your racist hate ideology is denying Jim Crow.

And Critical Race Theory certainly rejects the principle of equality under the law. It initially took its lead from liberal principles, but almost instantly abandoned them in favor of rejecting evidence and assuming guilt.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 03:39:43 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.
Nope, never listened to Fox News. My only exposure to any of their shows is watching the (not complimentary) Outfoxed documentary.

And you're the one who's claiming that Critical Race Theory is behind the Civil Rights Movement, when in fact it was created by Harvard scholars in the 60s and 70s, after, and in response to the successes of, the Civil Right Movement. And you can't weasel your way of the out the timing by claiming you were referring to something broader, because another poster referred back to the older Critical Theory, and you rejected that and said you're referring to Critical Race Theory in specific.

So your entire first post, which tries to credit all kinds of earlier historical events to Critical Race Theory, is completely and objectively wrong. Which you can't defend, so you're just making unsubstantiated claims that everybody else knows nothing.

Critical Race Theory explores how the surrounding structures of laws allowed those things to happen. I didn't claim that it was behind the Civil Rights Movement. That would be absurd, and you probably got the idea from the individual who conflated Critical Race Theory (mostly started in the 1970s) with Critical Theory/the Frankfurt School (that got its start in 1920's Germany). I don't get how you managed to misread me that badly.
I didn't misread anything. You literally said: "In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws...."

That's an explicit claim that Critical Race Theory owns those events, and all the other ones you named elsewhere in the paragraph. That Critical Race Theory is so enwrapped in those events, that arguing against Critical Race Theory is tantamount to supporting those events.

But, as I pointed out, all those events occurred, and were overcome, before Critical Race Theory even existed. They were defeated by the liberal principles, like equal treatment under the law, that Critical Race Theory has come to completely reject.

Again, Critical Race Theory is a historical study of how laws in the United States were used, and continue to be used, to keep White folks above folks who were/are seen as not-White. The Jim Crow laws are a clear case of laws that were used for right near a century to keep non-White folks below White folks in society. The fact that most of the Jim Crow laws were struck down by Federal Courts (including the Supreme Court) over the objections of state-level courts, and why that was, is part of the question.

As far as I know, Critical Race Theory doesn't reject the *principle* of equal treatment under the law, but it deeply questions whether the current United States criminal justice system actually *practices* equal treatment under the law (for instance, the difference in incarceration rates for black males vs. white males on non-distribution possession of a controlled substance laws, which is vast).

To portray laws that were in effect before most people were born or getting arrested more often for drugs as being more deserving of attention than the abhorrent amount of disproportionate interracial violence that Whites have faced for the last several generations is pure black fragility. If you disagree with me it is indicative of you being fragile and ignorant.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 03:40:09 AM

"Unless youve been indoctrinated as I have, you arent allowed to have an opinion about our systemic vilification of White western people". Yeah man its so esoteric it's not like we can read the works of proponents of critical race theory like Robin DeAngelo, or the training material that teachers are being given, or the training corporation's like Disney and coca cola are pushing on to their employees.

Not what I was saying, but you do you. You can have any opinion you want, you can feel as vilified as you want, but I put it down to jargon. I mean, "white fragility" and "non-whites are better at this than whites are" (which are entirely from one person's academic work, mind you) are jarring to hear without a lot of context and conversations that need to occur in a better setting than with online randos like me.

But, no, it isn't supposed to be a vilification. It's part of a conversation about race that noticed, like you've shown, as soon as racial issues come up, a lot of white folk get really defensive. Why is that? I've seen it happen again and again in conversations I've had -- in fact, until I got my nose rubbed in it when I was 20, I was much the same way -- and "white fragility" is one way to shorthand what's going on.

White fragility is a deflection from criticism by accusing, either implicitly or explicitly, that the subject is racist and in denial. It's a very sophisticated version of "Have you stopped beating your wife?" It's also a term made popular by a women who is an admitted racist and, in my opinion, projects her racism onto white people in general.

*shrug* well, yes. Everyone's a little bit racist (as "Avenue Q" puts it (Great show, I'd recommended it to anyone who wouldn't be freaked out by R-rated muppets)), but White fragility is an awful term that is poorly deployed in almost all of the places I've seen it. It does a reasonable job of putting a label on something I've experienced (and Deathknight4044 has been evincing with his "what about *me*? What about *my race*?" repetitions) It's nowhere near as universal as what you're saying DiAngelo claims, but it's there, right alongside the black woman waving her finger and saying, "Uh-UH! You did NOT just say that!"
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 03:42:44 AM

"Unless youve been indoctrinated as I have, you arent allowed to have an opinion about our systemic vilification of White western people". Yeah man its so esoteric it's not like we can read the works of proponents of critical race theory like Robin DeAngelo, or the training material that teachers are being given, or the training corporation's like Disney and coca cola are pushing on to their employees.

Not what I was saying, but you do you. You can have any opinion you want, you can feel as vilified as you want, but I put it down to jargon. I mean, "white fragility" and "non-whites are better at this than whites are" (which are entirely from one person's academic work, mind you) are jarring to hear without a lot of context and conversations that need to occur in a better setting than with online randos like me.

But, no, it isn't supposed to be a vilification. It's part of a conversation about race that noticed, like you've shown, as soon as racial issues come up, a lot of white folk get really defensive. Why is that? I've seen it happen again and again in conversations I've had -- in fact, until I got my nose rubbed in it when I was 20, I was much the same way -- and "white fragility" is one way to shorthand what's going on.

White fragility is a deflection from criticism by accusing, either implicitly or explicitly, that the subject is racist and in denial. It's a very sophisticated version of "Have you stopped beating your wife?" It's also a term made popular by a women who is an admitted racist and, in my opinion, projects her racism onto white people in general.

*shrug* well, yes. Everyone's a little bit racist (as "Avenue Q" puts it (Great show, I'd recommended it to anyone who wouldn't be freaked out by R-rated muppets)), but White fragility is an awful term that is poorly deployed in almost all of the places I've seen it. It does a reasonable job of putting a label on something I've experienced (and Deathknight4044 has been evincing with his "what about *me*? What about *my race*?" repetitions) It's nowhere near as universal as what you're saying DiAngelo claims, but it's there, right alongside the black woman waving her finger and saying, "Uh-UH! You did NOT just say that!"


Yes indeed. What about us?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 03:46:21 AM
None of that has anything to do with what I said. Once again, you avoid the issue, this time by being a patronizing little asshole.

The actual topic: You literally claimed that anyone who argues against your racist hate ideology is denying Jim Crow.

And Critical Race Theory certainly rejects the principle of equality under the law. It initially took its lead from liberal principles, but almost instantly abandoned them in favor of rejecting evidence and assuming guilt.

What I came here to say is this: There may be a racist hate ideology out there, and something that feels uncomfortably like anti-White racism certainly shows up in anti-racism training, but the actual racist hate ideology is not Critical Race Theory, which is much more limited than what Christopher Rufo (see: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory (https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory) ) would like you to believe.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 02, 2021, 04:01:16 AM
None of that has anything to do with what I said. Once again, you avoid the issue, this time by being a patronizing little asshole.

The actual topic: You literally claimed that anyone who argues against your racist hate ideology is denying Jim Crow.

And Critical Race Theory certainly rejects the principle of equality under the law. It initially took its lead from liberal principles, but almost instantly abandoned them in favor of rejecting evidence and assuming guilt.

What I came here to say is this: There may be a racist hate ideology out there, and something that feels uncomfortably like anti-White racism certainly shows up in anti-racism training, but the actual racist hate ideology is not Critical Race Theory, which is much more limited than what Christopher Rufo (see: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory (https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory) ) would like you to believe.

"Real critical race theory has never been tried! All of these examples arent real critical race theory, but at the same time it's wrong and fragile of you to reject the content of those CRT lessons (that are actually not really CRT)"
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 04:51:27 AM
None of that has anything to do with what I said. Once again, you avoid the issue, this time by being a patronizing little asshole.

The actual topic: You literally claimed that anyone who argues against your racist hate ideology is denying Jim Crow.

And Critical Race Theory certainly rejects the principle of equality under the law. It initially took its lead from liberal principles, but almost instantly abandoned them in favor of rejecting evidence and assuming guilt.

What I came here to say is this: There may be a racist hate ideology out there, and something that feels uncomfortably like anti-White racism certainly shows up in anti-racism training, but the actual racist hate ideology is not Critical Race Theory, which is much more limited than what Christopher Rufo (see: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory (https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory) ) would like you to believe.

Personally, I prefer James Lindsay.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 02, 2021, 07:02:29 AM
Greetings!

Critical Race Theory is pure anti-white RACISM deeply rooted in Marxist ideology and given an academic glossed paintjob.

All of the piggy-squealing in defense of Critical Race Theory amounts to nothing more than obtuse gaslighting promoted by anti-white racists, race-grifting charlatans, demagogues, and other malevolent agent-provocateurs that seek the corruption and degradation of America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 02, 2021, 08:01:04 AM
This may be relevant.

During the oughts and teens (2000-2010's), one of the big criticisms from the left about armed response against radical Islamism was that it would simply radicalize more Muslims and create more terrorists.

Now, skip forward to present day and we're told 'well, if you become radicalized by our racial agenda, you were probably already a bigot/Nazi/etc'.

Which is it? Because neither is a particularly good look for the left. Either the Islamists were always radicals, in which case we should have been putting the fear of Allah in them; or their agenda is radicalizing people and they don't want to admit it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 02, 2021, 08:20:18 AM
I think I know what's going on, now. Someone seems to have conflated Anti-Racism Training and Critical Race Theory in the Foxosphere's minds.

Gee, so someone who disagrees with you can only be getting their information from a 'bad source'...and you manage to lump everyone who disagrees into a 'category'...kind of reminds me of the same type of arguments that racists use...

Unless you've had the 15 semester-hours that I've had on Critical Race Theory, Cultural Encounters and Reflection, Clinical Pastoral Education, and Imago Dei (M.Div. branch of understanding these things) that build a picture of just how fucked up the United States is on race relations.

Its an rpg gaming forum...RPG gamers have a tendency to be fairly well read...You might want to have more than the equivalent of 1 semester's worth of classes before you try the big 'appeal to authority' reveal...

I had one class that was led by a Tejano whose family had lived in the San Antonio area since the 1500's, had an ancestor who got out of the Alamo before the Mexicans closed in, and was told by a guy whose parents were refugees from WWII Poland that he should "Leave the US to us Americans." in my presence. These things are really, really tricky and need some time to work through and nuanced discussion. They don't work so well in soundbites or "trainings" that are designed (even by well-meaning people) to make a buck and cover HR-required Continuing Education hours.

So you met someone who is racist?  Wow! Tell us more...I doubt anyone here has ever met someone who was an actual honest-to-God racist...  ::)
....and yet again with the appeal to authority...

Sundown towns? Isn't it weird how we have all these scary names for things white people allegedly did a century ago (I'm sure there's some truth to it, but also a lot of motivated exaggeration), but our lexicon of ominous phrases doesn't have a word for the same phenomenon happening to whites?

Just on this one: I'm curious if you know of any US townships or counties where, by law, if you were white, you couldn't stay overnight (even in a payed lodging) without being arrested and thrown in jail for vagrancy. There were several of those for nonwhites in the early-to-mid twentieth century US.

Yeah, but none of them were more recent than about 70 years ago...
You do realize that some of us knew about the 'Green Book' decades before the movie came out, right?

In fact, Washington Territory (now Washington State) actually declared a handful of Black families "officially white" when they passed their restrictive "anti-Negro" laws preventing any black person from owning real property.

Washington became a state in 1889...


But, no, it isn't supposed to be a vilification. It's part of a conversation about race that noticed, like you've shown, as soon as racial issues come up, a lot of white folk get really defensive. Why is that? I've seen it happen again and again in conversations I've had -- in fact, until I got my nose rubbed in it when I was 20, I was much the same way -- and "white fragility" is one way to shorthand what's going on.

So until fairly recently, then...

One wonders...Do you lecture your German friends on their Nazi heritage or your Japanese friends on how to absolve themselves for Korea and Nanking?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 10:43:03 AM
None of that has anything to do with what I said. Once again, you avoid the issue, this time by being a patronizing little asshole.

The actual topic: You literally claimed that anyone who argues against your racist hate ideology is denying Jim Crow.

And Critical Race Theory certainly rejects the principle of equality under the law. It initially took its lead from liberal principles, but almost instantly abandoned them in favor of rejecting evidence and assuming guilt.

What I came here to say is this: There may be a racist hate ideology out there, and something that feels uncomfortably like anti-White racism certainly shows up in anti-racism training, but the actual racist hate ideology is not Critical Race Theory, which is much more limited than what Christopher Rufo (see: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory (https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory) ) would like you to believe.
I'm not a fan of the anti-white racism because I'm not a fan of racism, but I think it's a relatively small part of the problem. The real issue is segregation. Dividing everyone into identity groups with their own grudges and pitting them against each other is resinstituting Jim Crow. 

That article seem to end halfway through.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 11:13:49 AM
So until fairly recently, then...

One wonders...Do you lecture your German friends on their Nazi heritage or your Japanese friends on how to absolve themselves for Korea and Nanking?

Heh. Born in 1970, thank you very much. But then, I went to a community college (1988-1990) where the two largest groups were the Black Student Union and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance.  Fundamentalist white boy goes to college and meets people who aren't like him, it's an old, old story.

And, no. My German friends get more crap for the entire Wars of Religion and Cuius regio, eius religio thing. I had Japanese Nissei and Issei friends growing up, but we mostly talked about Judo and what the best Japanese food was.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 11:31:48 AM
This may be relevant.

During the oughts and teens (2000-2010's), one of the big criticisms from the left about armed response against radical Islamism was that it would simply radicalize more Muslims and create more terrorists.

Now, skip forward to present day and we're told 'well, if you become radicalized by our racial agenda, you were probably already a bigot/Nazi/etc'.

Which is it? Because neither is a particularly good look for the left. Either the Islamists were always radicals, in which case we should have been putting the fear of Allah in them; or their agenda is radicalizing people and they don't want to admit it.

A lot of Western Liberals *still* have no clue about the divisions and tensions in Islam.  The Wahhabist sect is founded on the concept of "Jihad is preemptive self-defence". It also aggressively proselytizes, including other sects of Islam (those madrassas set up in poorer countries by Saudi Arabia? Almost universally Wahhabist, because the House of Saud is Wahhabist). The mainline Sunni and Shi'a sects are much less militant, but are significantly less likely to proselytize. This is similar to the actions of the White Nationalist/White Supremacist movements in the United States, who have been actively recruiting white folks, especially white law enforcement and (ex-)military, into their movements since just shortly after Ruby Ridge. Does anyone else here remember the Aryan Nations changing to "White Separatists" from "White Supremacists" because "We aren't as crazy as those The Order people?" They were actively looking for ways to make themselves more palatable to Middle America -- and today we have the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys as their spiritual descendants.

So, no, neither group was radicalized by any one else. They simply were aggressively recruiting and then radicalizing the kind of people they thought would be useful to their cause.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 11:38:07 AM
Greetings!

Critical Race Theory is pure anti-white RACISM deeply rooted in Marxist ideology and given an academic glossed paintjob.

All of the piggy-squealing in defense of Critical Race Theory amounts to nothing more than obtuse gaslighting promoted by anti-white racists, race-grifting charlatans, demagogues, and other malevolent agent-provocateurs that seek the corruption and degradation of America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You are wrong. But  then, what are you "always faithful" to, Mr. Shark? The United States of America, its people and Constitution, or just the kind of people who look and think like you? You seemed to be plenty happy when the constitution was being trampled on by a bunch of White Supremacist idiots back in January.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 02, 2021, 11:40:01 AM
This may be relevant.

During the oughts and teens (2000-2010's), one of the big criticisms from the left about armed response against radical Islamism was that it would simply radicalize more Muslims and create more terrorists.

Now, skip forward to present day and we're told 'well, if you become radicalized by our racial agenda, you were probably already a bigot/Nazi/etc'.

Which is it? Because neither is a particularly good look for the left. Either the Islamists were always radicals, in which case we should have been putting the fear of Allah in them; or their agenda is radicalizing people and they don't want to admit it.

A lot of Western Liberals *still* have no clue about the divisions and tensions in Islam.  The Wahhabist sect is founded on the concept of "Jihad is preemptive self-defence". It also aggressively proselytizes, including other sects of Islam (those madrassas set up in poorer countries by Saudi Arabia? Almost universally Wahhabist, because the House of Saud is Wahhabist). The mainline Sunni and Shi'a sects are much less militant, but are significantly less likely to proselytize. This is similar to the actions of the White Nationalist/White Supremacist movements in the United States, who have been actively recruiting white folks, especially white law enforcement and (ex-)military, into their movements since just shortly after Ruby Ridge. Does anyone else here remember the Aryan Nations changing to "White Separatists" from "White Supremacists" because "We aren't as crazy as those The Order people?" They were actively looking for ways to make themselves more palatable to Middle America -- and today we have the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys as their spiritual descendants.

So, no, neither group was radicalized by any one else. They simply were aggressively recruiting and then radicalizing the kind of people they thought would be useful to their cause.

That's nice. You didn't refute a thing I said.

The left has managed to generate its own radical-right opposition. Good job!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 02, 2021, 11:52:11 AM
This may be relevant.

During the oughts and teens (2000-2010's), one of the big criticisms from the left about armed response against radical Islamism was that it would simply radicalize more Muslims and create more terrorists.

Now, skip forward to present day and we're told 'well, if you become radicalized by our racial agenda, you were probably already a bigot/Nazi/etc'.

Which is it? Because neither is a particularly good look for the left. Either the Islamists were always radicals, in which case we should have been putting the fear of Allah in them; or their agenda is radicalizing people and they don't want to admit it.

A lot of Western Liberals *still* have no clue about the divisions and tensions in Islam.  The Wahhabist sect is founded on the concept of "Jihad is preemptive self-defence". It also aggressively proselytizes, including other sects of Islam (those madrassas set up in poorer countries by Saudi Arabia? Almost universally Wahhabist, because the House of Saud is Wahhabist). The mainline Sunni and Shi'a sects are much less militant, but are significantly less likely to proselytize. This is similar to the actions of the White Nationalist/White Supremacist movements in the United States, who have been actively recruiting white folks, especially white law enforcement and (ex-)military, into their movements since just shortly after Ruby Ridge. Does anyone else here remember the Aryan Nations changing to "White Separatists" from "White Supremacists" because "We aren't as crazy as those The Order people?" They were actively looking for ways to make themselves more palatable to Middle America -- and today we have the Oathkeepers and Proud Boys as their spiritual descendants.

So, no, neither group was radicalized by any one else. They simply were aggressively recruiting and then radicalizing the kind of people they thought would be useful to their cause.

Again with the Proud Boys? WTF did they do? Burned a BLM flag? A couple of them wandered into the Capitol building when others had already broken into it? (they weren't even there in force because they had nothing planned for that day) OK, sure, but did everyone forget all the shit that happened in 2020? Proud Boys don't even register, except for the hysteria. And how are they "spiritual descendants" of white supremacists?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 11:54:18 AM
That's nice. You didn't refute a thing I said.

The left has managed to generate its own radical-right opposition. Good job!

Eeeh... *wiggles hand back and forth* The hard "Left" and hard "Right" have been ginning each other up over what could be considered petty nonsense since the days of the Roman Republic. But most of the radicalization is actually done internally, rather than externally. It's my opinion that, had someone taken out the House of Saud in the 1950's, there would be fewer radicalized Moslems in the world. Similarly, if someone had done a clean sweep of the white supremacist groups after Timothy McVeigh, we'd be seeing less idiocy from what are now called White Nationalists.

Of course, by your logic, the BLM protests getting violent is just a natural radicalization caused by the actions and rhetoric of Law Enforcement, so maybe you're right.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 12:01:14 PM
Again with the Proud Boys? WTF did they do? Burned a BLM flag? A couple of them wandered into the Capitol building when others had already broken into it? (they weren't even there in force because they had nothing planned for that day) OK, sure, but did everyone forget all the shit that happened in 2020? Proud Boys don't even register, except for the hysteria. And how are they "spiritual descendants" of white supremacists?

Go and look at the NY Time's minute-by-minute video of the January 6 attack. Proud Boys were trying to get into the Capitol building before President Trump's speech was even ending. A Proud Boy was the first one to start breaking glass (with a stolen police riot shield) in the Capitol. Proud Boys in tactical gear were the people who lead the charge on the east side of the Capitol, and were the ones who were using radios to tell each other where the weak points in the police line were. They did *not* just walk in after other people were inside, they were at the front of an attempt to murder members of Congress and the Vice President.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on July 02, 2021, 12:03:21 PM
Sundown towns? Isn't it weird how we have all these scary names for things white people allegedly did a century ago (I'm sure there's some truth to it, but also a lot of motivated exaggeration), but our lexicon of ominous phrases doesn't have a word for the same phenomenon happening to whites?

Well I know Arab, AL had a sundown policy into the early '90s, so some of this shit is more recent than you might expect.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
The Proud Boys are terrible at white supremacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrique_Tarrio
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on July 02, 2021, 01:26:53 PM
What I came here to say is this: There may be a racist hate ideology out there, and something that feels uncomfortably like anti-White racism certainly shows up in anti-racism training, but the actual racist hate ideology is not Critical Race Theory, which is much more limited than what Christopher Rufo (see: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory (https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory) ) would like you to believe.

Hi, ScytheSong. Thanks for the discussion. As far as I can tell, both liberals and conservatives have been unclear about what Critical Race Theory (CRT) is. Notably, liberals have still referred to Republican state laws as being "anti-CRT" even though they don't mention CRT and have nothing that prevents teaching about black history. For example, this is the relevant clause in Idaho Bill HB 377,

Quote
No public institution of higher education, school district, or public school, including a public charter school, shall direct or otherwise compel students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the following tenets:
  (i) That any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior;
  (ii) That individuals should be adversely treated on the basis of their sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin; or
  (iii) That individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
(b) No distinction or classification of students shall be made on account of race or color.
(c) No course of instruction or unit of study directing or otherwise compelling students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the tenets identified in paragraph (a) of this subsection shall be used or introduced in any institution of higher education, any school district, or any public school, including a public charter school.

Yet this has still been referred to by liberals as being anti-CRT. I haven't studied CRT, but from a scanning of academic papers, it seems like it is a loose movement that doesn't have a clear core set of principles. This was an article by Gary Peller trying to describe,

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/06/30/critical-race-theory-lightning-rod-opinion-497046

The most controversial points may or may not be a part of Critical Race Theory, but I have seen them expressed. One of them is going beyond saying that the U.S. not a race-neutral meritocracy, but that race-neutral meritocracy is not an ideal to strive for, because the concept is flawed. This is a fundamental clash of philosophy. As Peller puts it,

Quote
We likewise question the traditional ways that liberals have defended affirmative action as a useful exception to a presumed race-blind ideal of “merit.” To us, the very definitions of merit reflect racial and other forms of social power.

Another is to what degree slavery and racism were inherent in the U.S. system as founded - which seems more about spin than about substance. Everyone agrees that slavery was in the Constitution - the question is how to characterize its part in it.

I'm not saying these are inherently in Critical Race Theory, but they are perceived to be, by people on both sides.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 02, 2021, 01:31:41 PM
Go and look at the NY Time's minute-by-minute video of the January 6 attack. Proud Boys were trying to get into the Capitol building before President Trump's speech was even ending. A Proud Boy was the first one to start breaking glass (with a stolen police riot shield) in the Capitol. Proud Boys in tactical gear were the people who lead the charge on the east side of the Capitol, and were the ones who were using radios to tell each other where the weak points in the police line were. They did *not* just walk in after other people were inside, they were at the front of an attempt to murder members of Congress and the Vice President.

I don't particularly like giving NY Times clicks anymore, after I realized that they are willingly lying to everyone's face, race-baiting, hiring people who hate whites etc. But is this video the one you're talking about?
https://www.joemygod.com/2021/06/nyt-issues-astounding-minute-by-minute-video-analysis-of-the-cultist-insurrection-at-the-us-capitol-video/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=939e0bf2a3f4712ac7412292e331d011fe3ab007-1625246789-0-AZwadZyfGH_LSgOD-xsFa3f2cMUkcrEO6YvgcLin2mET1OAj6zIEIivhVL_YK9Ll0BXqh9nS0y6XLNXUvi2sZLb478DzBshabyOxeHggsUyVeqgpFN25KoRTOtbi1l2qgphIBJpOvIQQrwFoo4NlubJsFugYkJ_iItQG7qMGCAzOFIPHf3lRSBFORXO3tGFdrBtpxxrdTy49_CGU1mNAvgghM-7ka5HPm7UJbt70UB4Mf3ohFfKxcCwo_6_h5BGwL6l19WeQq8Pgib4sBnK9fAqewSm73L_xY4aiBY0vCcSJxSSAVu9ORmYftkhpLFnrpcfjtpvbMNFCj2HPlo2OQi8F3LK6IUrRvI9hztB5IGGKrzwMSdN6ByGsdX0UD73htkoAkXtESL60TEvOj5l0yLpJMqUOgAqueHsHJ_YkFKyBf6jcSJ8JpeKqYfCKrNrjRmjlS27C7SjG8zTS1Hzan7-PHgiJxNMISU1Ts1WIt_XJxkj9gmhgnYp8Vev8Vaxf79d4Kux_B0juN1VzkLgAAZPL-QaqHyqIn8hje5VYGdHx
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 02:42:37 PM
Go and look at the NY Time's minute-by-minute video of the January 6 attack. Proud Boys were trying to get into the Capitol building before President Trump's speech was even ending. A Proud Boy was the first one to start breaking glass (with a stolen police riot shield) in the Capitol. Proud Boys in tactical gear were the people who lead the charge on the east side of the Capitol, and were the ones who were using radios to tell each other where the weak points in the police line were. They did *not* just walk in after other people were inside, they were at the front of an attempt to murder members of Congress and the Vice President.

I don't particularly like giving NY Times clicks anymore, after I realized that they are willingly lying to everyone's face, race-baiting, hiring people who hate whites etc. But is this video the one you're talking about?
https://www.joemygod.com/2021/06/nyt-issues-astounding-minute-by-minute-video-analysis-of-the-cultist-insurrection-at-the-us-capitol-video/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=939e0bf2a3f4712ac7412292e331d011fe3ab007-1625246789-0-AZwadZyfGH_LSgOD-xsFa3f2cMUkcrEO6YvgcLin2mET1OAj6zIEIivhVL_YK9Ll0BXqh9nS0y6XLNXUvi2sZLb478DzBshabyOxeHggsUyVeqgpFN25KoRTOtbi1l2qgphIBJpOvIQQrwFoo4NlubJsFugYkJ_iItQG7qMGCAzOFIPHf3lRSBFORXO3tGFdrBtpxxrdTy49_CGU1mNAvgghM-7ka5HPm7UJbt70UB4Mf3ohFfKxcCwo_6_h5BGwL6l19WeQq8Pgib4sBnK9fAqewSm73L_xY4aiBY0vCcSJxSSAVu9ORmYftkhpLFnrpcfjtpvbMNFCj2HPlo2OQi8F3LK6IUrRvI9hztB5IGGKrzwMSdN6ByGsdX0UD73htkoAkXtESL60TEvOj5l0yLpJMqUOgAqueHsHJ_YkFKyBf6jcSJ8JpeKqYfCKrNrjRmjlS27C7SjG8zTS1Hzan7-PHgiJxNMISU1Ts1WIt_XJxkj9gmhgnYp8Vev8Vaxf79d4Kux_B0juN1VzkLgAAZPL-QaqHyqIn8hje5VYGdHx

That article does indeed have the video I saw. 40 minutes, title "Day of Rage," splash of a Qanon guy yelling at the camera.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on July 02, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
OK, sure, but did everyone forget all the shit that happened in 2020?
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pQw9hVZiSX6a0uRdJgurK-7J3kY=/0x0:3000x2204/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:3000x2204):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13149625/GettyImages_1039353720.jpg)
Wait.  Sorry I'm confusing this with the "insurrection" of September 2018 when thousands stormed the Capitol in order to disrupt the confirmation hearings of a judge.  Around 1000 were arrested and frog marched out of the Capitol and immediately released.  For some reason they were never prosecuted.  So much for equal treatment under the law.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 02, 2021, 02:49:34 PM
Go and look at the NY Time's minute-by-minute video of the January 6 attack. Proud Boys were trying to get into the Capitol building before President Trump's speech was even ending. A Proud Boy was the first one to start breaking glass (with a stolen police riot shield) in the Capitol. Proud Boys in tactical gear were the people who lead the charge on the east side of the Capitol, and were the ones who were using radios to tell each other where the weak points in the police line were. They did *not* just walk in after other people were inside, they were at the front of an attempt to murder members of Congress and the Vice President.

OK about the video. Problems abound : Proud Boys became famous because Trump "evoked" them? Not mentioning that it was Biden who brought them up in the debate and who arguably made them famous by doing that. Later cutting the part of Trump's speech when he says "peacefully" because that doesn't fit the narrative. They even put voices saying "take the capitol" on top of Trump's voice. Not because they didn't have a better recording, but in case you didn't get the NYT message.

Had to chuckle that they show as part of the evidence a Republican who  says "by and large it was a peaceful protest", when Democrats have been doing just that throughout 2020s riots, which actually affected normal people, burned parts of cities down, and lead to a spiral of violence that still has not abated. They looted right in front of my face in my neighborhood for instance. In both cases it rings hollow, but holy crap how much bigger the Democrat lie was. And I have noticed a refusal on the left to acknowledge that 2020 had something to do with Jan 6. Of course it did, people felt threatened by violence all across the country, but that correlation isn't mentioned even once. They also try to point out the irony of rioters supporting the police, when that irony clearly also goes both ways.

They show a lot of Proud Boys at first (although not Enrique Tarrio, who wasn't there, according to Tarrio because the Proud Boys hadn't planned anything for that day), but during the riots mostly two or three show up. The large group seems to have been dissolved. Could it be that Tarrio is telling the truth? One who is clearly involved (Ethan Nordean) everyone agrees is a member. So yes, members were there during the breach, I'll give you that.

Here's something weird; in most catastrophes etc. numbers of reported dead rise after a while, as what happened becomes more clear and bodies are counted. In this case the number of dead fell from 5 to 2 (both Trump supporters). Sounds a bit like the media were trying hard to make it sound worse than it was.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 02:59:49 PM
OK, sure, but did everyone forget all the shit that happened in 2020?
Wait.  Sorry I'm confusing this with the "insurrection" of September 2018 when thousands stormed the Capitol in order to disrupt the confirmation hearings of a judge.  Around 1000 were arrested and frog marched out of the Capitol and immediately released.  For some reason they were never prosecuted.  So much for equal treatment under the law.

And what was the estimated damage to the Capitol? In dollars? Oh, right, Zero. And the number I get for numbers arrested is around 200, not around 1000. And at least one guy spent a night in jail. So, given minor nitpicks, sure. So what?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 03:02:37 PM
What I came here to say is this: There may be a racist hate ideology out there, and something that feels uncomfortably like anti-White racism certainly shows up in anti-racism training, but the actual racist hate ideology is not Critical Race Theory, which is much more limited than what Christopher Rufo (see: https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory (https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-inquiry/how-a-conservative-activist-invented-the-conflict-over-critical-race-theory) ) would like you to believe.

Hi, ScytheSong. Thanks for the discussion. As far as I can tell, both liberals and conservatives have been unclear about what Critical Race Theory (CRT) is. Notably, liberals have still referred to Republican state laws as being "anti-CRT" even though they don't mention CRT and have nothing that prevents teaching about black history. For example, this is the relevant clause in Idaho Bill HB 377,

Quote
No public institution of higher education, school district, or public school, including a public charter school, shall direct or otherwise compel students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the following tenets:
  (i) That any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior;
  (ii) That individuals should be adversely treated on the basis of their sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin; or
  (iii) That individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
(b) No distinction or classification of students shall be made on account of race or color.
(c) No course of instruction or unit of study directing or otherwise compelling students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the tenets identified in paragraph (a) of this subsection shall be used or introduced in any institution of higher education, any school district, or any public school, including a public charter school.

Yet this has still been referred to by liberals as being anti-CRT. I haven't studied CRT, but from a scanning of academic papers, it seems like it is a loose movement that doesn't have a clear core set of principles. This was an article by Gary Peller trying to describe,

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/06/30/critical-race-theory-lightning-rod-opinion-497046

Most CRT "Experts" don't seem to know what the hell they're talking about.

Quote
CRT is not a racialist ideology that declares all whites to be privileged oppressors, and CRT is not taught in public schools.

https://cityordinances.durhamnc.gov/OnBaseAgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/Final-Published%20Attachment%20-%2014757%20-%20RESOLUTION%20-%201%20-%20RESOLUTION%20IN%20SUPPORT%20.pdf?meetingId=464&documentType=Agenda&itemId=22645&publishId=97652&isSection=false

Quote
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Durham City Council calls upon our
state and federal representatives to work toward the immediate, opposition to HB324
and work to ensure black history and critical race theory is included in our students’
public school education:
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 02, 2021, 03:23:34 PM
So until fairly recently, then...

One wonders...Do you lecture your German friends on their Nazi heritage or your Japanese friends on how to absolve themselves for Korea and Nanking?

Heh. Born in 1970, thank you very much. But then, I went to a community college (1988-1990) where the two largest groups were the Black Student Union and the Gay and Lesbian Alliance.  Fundamentalist white boy goes to college and meets people who aren't like him, it's an old, old story.

Christ, that's even worse...I was willing to give you a little leeway for being young...sad.

You actually had to get to college in order to realize that minorities had been treated badly and everyone should be judged individually based on their own actions??

Hell I grew up in an area with less than half a percent non-white population, and we learned that from our parents and history classes in school.

And, no. My German friends get more crap for the entire Wars of Religion and Cuius regio, eius religio thing. I had Japanese Nissei and Issei friends growing up, but we mostly talked about Judo and what the best Japanese food was.

So, I was right.  It is just the white Americans who have to recognize their inherent racism and the blood debt they owe.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 02, 2021, 03:25:48 PM
Greetings!

Critical Race Theory is pure anti-white RACISM deeply rooted in Marxist ideology and given an academic glossed paintjob.

All of the piggy-squealing in defense of Critical Race Theory amounts to nothing more than obtuse gaslighting promoted by anti-white racists, race-grifting charlatans, demagogues, and other malevolent agent-provocateurs that seek the corruption and degradation of America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You are wrong. But  then, what are you "always faithful" to, Mr. Shark? The United States of America, its people and Constitution, or just the kind of people who look and think like you? You seemed to be plenty happy when the constitution was being trampled on by a bunch of White Supremacist idiots back in January.

Greetings!

Heh. No, I'm not wrong. I know what Critical Race Theory is all about. It is exactly as I described it. Anyone who wants to think about it differently is sadly ignorant, uninformed, or brainwashed.

I am faithful to that which is worthy of being faithful to. My God, Family, Corps, and Country. As for people and what they look like? I don't happen to give a damn if someone "Looks like me" or not. They can be purple, zebra striped, whatever. As for "Thinking like me"--well, yeah, obviously, there is some importance to that and having essential compatibilities and commonalties. Fucking racists, Marxists, anarchists, ANTIFA, BLM thugs and Woke Commissars have "thinking" that makes living them seem impossible, so fuck them.

I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 02, 2021, 04:03:01 PM
OK, sure, but did everyone forget all the shit that happened in 2020?
Wait.  Sorry I'm confusing this with the "insurrection" of September 2018 when thousands stormed the Capitol in order to disrupt the confirmation hearings of a judge.  Around 1000 were arrested and frog marched out of the Capitol and immediately released.  For some reason they were never prosecuted.  So much for equal treatment under the law.

And what was the estimated damage to the Capitol? In dollars? Oh, right, Zero. And the number I get for numbers arrested is around 200, not around 1000. And at least one guy spent a night in jail. So, given minor nitpicks, sure. So what?
"They got insurance."
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on July 02, 2021, 04:08:15 PM
And what was the estimated damage to the Capitol? In dollars? Oh, right, Zero. And the number I get for numbers arrested is around 200, not around 1000. And at least one guy spent a night in jail. So, given minor nitpicks, sure. So what?
I don't think it was taken as seriously because it was mostly chicks and effeminate men.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 04:45:19 PM

I'm not saying these are inherently in Critical Race Theory, but they are perceived to be, by people on both sides.
None of that's Critical Race Theory. You're just adding a lot of confusion to the issue.

CRT starts with the assumption that everything is racist. Every person, every institution, and every interaction. That it's the norm. This is sometimes called systemic racism. Going deeper, it claims that race is an artificial construct created by white people, who used it to give themselves power, and exclude other people. They further claim that since white people benefit from it, they have a vested interest in maintaining the system, and usually can't even see how the structure of everything favors them. These are the unquestionable tenets of the movement.

This means Critical Race theorists never look for proof that racism exists in any situation. Instead, they assume that racism always exists, and then try to explain how racism is inherent in every situation. While it was a reaction to the Civil Rights movement, CRT believes the movement failed to address the historical inequities around race, and has come to reject almost all of the liberal principles that underlie it, including concepts like equality under the law. It also rejects reasoning and evidence in favor of lived experiences and feelings.

CRT is also an activist movement. I'm not saying that a few Critical Race Theorists are activists. I'm saying one of the core principals of CRT scholarship is overturning the social order. It doesn't believe in incremental improvements, but revolution. And if you're not actively fighting all the time, you're considered part of the problem.

I don't think anything I've said above would be seriously disputed, by either side. This is all covered in basic videos or introductory textbooks by key Critical Race Theory advocates and scholars like Robin DiAngelo, as well as by opponents like James Lindsay.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: KingCheops on July 02, 2021, 04:55:59 PM
OK, sure, but did everyone forget all the shit that happened in 2020?
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/pQw9hVZiSX6a0uRdJgurK-7J3kY=/0x0:3000x2204/920x0/filters:focal(0x0:3000x2204):format(webp):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/13149625/GettyImages_1039353720.jpg)
Wait.  Sorry I'm confusing this with the "insurrection" of September 2018 when thousands stormed the Capitol in order to disrupt the confirmation hearings of a judge.  Around 1000 were arrested and frog marched out of the Capitol and immediately released.  For some reason they were never prosecuted.  So much for equal treatment under the law.

Not to mention they were actually riding the elevators alongside the Senators and screaming in their ears.  They also blatantly had organizers standing outside with wads of cash for bail money openly calling out for people to take some and go get arrested.

Edit:  It's doubly extra fucking hilarious if you take into account the fact that DemonKKKrats got these retards all worked up over abortion when BK literally told that cunt Feinstein that he supported the precedent set by Roe v. Wade during the Judiciary Committee hearing.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 02, 2021, 05:05:47 PM
Yes, Critical Race Theory is an "intellectual" pursuit that has no room for other explanations. Imagine a student working on a CRT thesis, with the subject being exploring racism in, say, New Jersey pottery making. And the student then coming back to the profs and supervisors at the university saying "uh, I couldn't find any racism in NJ pottery". The student will simply be told that they're not looking closely enough. They would twist and wring whatever they have, using all sorts of sophistry and obscure phrasings (and many of them are trained in this, often coming from backgrounds in studying literature). This is why they keep finding "racism" in the most absurd places.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 02, 2021, 05:09:19 PM
Question in my mind is whether ScytheSong is just trying to rile people up or is being sincere. It's hard to believe sincerity when engaging in such bad tactics. Jump into a thread, make a bunch of questionable statements meant to frame discussion, then derail the whole thread by being evasive.

Just to try and keep this on track, much of critiques of power from figures such as Foucault that form the foundation of CRT have valuable insights worth paying attention to. Cynical Theories by Lindsay & Pluckrose does a fairly good job at showing the genealogy of these ideas.

The issue we see when it comes to CRT is its particularist anti-white agenda and focus on legalism rather than real-world harm.

It's pretty obvious when you look at the language they've purposefully constructed, talking about "White Fragility" "Whiteness" etc. Of course the claim is that these aren't meant specifically as ethnic markers. Lets be real -- It's explicitly targeting Whites/Europeans, and that's precisely why CRT has any degree of popularity, because it trades on racially-motived envy and hatred. Without that emotional hook it's just up-its-own-ass philosophizing about the nature of power and privilege, which we've already seen has no blood to actually motivate people.

What I've never had explained to me by a CRT person is why it's bad for European people to build societies that benefit European peoples. Seems like it's perfectly okay for Arabs to build Arab countries to benefit Arabs, for Africans to build African countries to benefit Africans, for Asians to build Asian countries to benefit Asians -- In many cases these people are doing shit that is way more shady and nefarious than what CRT people complain about -- But only European peoples are not allowed to build their own societies with their own rules for the benefit of themselves & their posterity.

Not playing that game.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 05:29:07 PM
Greetings!

Critical Race Theory is pure anti-white RACISM deeply rooted in Marxist ideology and given an academic glossed paintjob.

All of the piggy-squealing in defense of Critical Race Theory amounts to nothing more than obtuse gaslighting promoted by anti-white racists, race-grifting charlatans, demagogues, and other malevolent agent-provocateurs that seek the corruption and degradation of America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You are wrong. But  then, what are you "always faithful" to, Mr. Shark? The United States of America, its people and Constitution, or just the kind of people who look and think like you? You seemed to be plenty happy when the constitution was being trampled on by a bunch of White Supremacist idiots back in January.

Greetings!

Heh. No, I'm not wrong. I know what Critical Race Theory is all about. It is exactly as I described it. Anyone who wants to think about it differently is sadly ignorant, uninformed, or brainwashed.

I am faithful to that which is worthy of being faithful to. My God, Family, Corps, and Country. As for people and what they look like? I don't happen to give a damn if someone "Looks like me" or not. They can be purple, zebra striped, whatever. As for "Thinking like me"--well, yeah, obviously, there is some importance to that and having essential compatibilities and commonalties. Fucking racists, Marxists, anarchists, ANTIFA, BLM thugs and Woke Commissars have "thinking" that makes living them seem impossible, so fuck them.

I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on July 02, 2021, 05:40:40 PM
What I've never had explained to me by a CRT person is why it's bad for European people to build societies that benefit European peoples. Seems like it's perfectly okay for Arabs to build Arab countries to benefit Arabs, for Africans to build African countries to benefit Africans, for Asians to build Asian countries to benefit Asians -- In many cases these people are doing shit that is way more shady and nefarious than what CRT people complain about -- But only European peoples are not allowed to build their own societies with their own rules for the benefit of themselves & their posterity.

I'm not a CRT person -- but by my book, it is definitely *not* okay for China to discriminate against the Uyghurs, or for Myanmar to discriminate against the Rohingya, or for Japan to discriminate against ethnic Koreans. Creating racist, sexist, and otherwise prejudiced societies is something I am opposed to wherever they are. There are plenty of other people who support these causes.

My father grew up under Japanese rule in Korea, where he would be beaten if he spoke Korean in school -- despite being Korean. They were deliberately trying to stamp out Korean culture and impose their own onto Korean children. This sort of imperialism is not OK. By the same token, Indian boarding schools where Indian children were forcibly indoctrinated were also not OK.

I realize there are some people who exclusively focus on prejudice and imperialism by white people, but just because they are wrong, that doesn't mean that prejudice and imperialism are okay.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 02, 2021, 06:04:29 PM
Greetings!

Critical Race Theory is pure anti-white RACISM deeply rooted in Marxist ideology and given an academic glossed paintjob.

All of the piggy-squealing in defense of Critical Race Theory amounts to nothing more than obtuse gaslighting promoted by anti-white racists, race-grifting charlatans, demagogues, and other malevolent agent-provocateurs that seek the corruption and degradation of America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

You are wrong. But  then, what are you "always faithful" to, Mr. Shark? The United States of America, its people and Constitution, or just the kind of people who look and think like you? You seemed to be plenty happy when the constitution was being trampled on by a bunch of White Supremacist idiots back in January.

Greetings!

Heh. No, I'm not wrong. I know what Critical Race Theory is all about. It is exactly as I described it. Anyone who wants to think about it differently is sadly ignorant, uninformed, or brainwashed.

I am faithful to that which is worthy of being faithful to. My God, Family, Corps, and Country. As for people and what they look like? I don't happen to give a damn if someone "Looks like me" or not. They can be purple, zebra striped, whatever. As for "Thinking like me"--well, yeah, obviously, there is some importance to that and having essential compatibilities and commonalties. Fucking racists, Marxists, anarchists, ANTIFA, BLM thugs and Woke Commissars have "thinking" that makes living them seem impossible, so fuck them.

I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?

Greetings!

I am not worried about the US Constitution being endangered or violated by whoever was at the Capitol during January 6, 2021. It is just more hyped-up hysterical nonsense being pushed, framed, and exploited by the Marxist Democrats throughout the government to actually violate our rights and liberties, and to gather ever more power and control into their hands.

Furthermore, numerous political leaders, media officials, and more, screamed that when the BLM and ANTIFA mobs were burning, looting, and murdering people and devastating cities all over the country--well, the mobs were just expressing their pain and rage.

So, the angry mobs at the Capitol were also then merely expressing their pain and rage. If it's good for BLM and ANTIFA, then the same policy is good for everyone else, too. That's how reality and justice gets worked out. I suppose in our new, Balkanized reality of clown-world, with fat, Marxist Democrat politicians abandoning any true loyalty to America, and instead embracing their calling of being Marxist Demagogues seeking to eagerly corrupt and destroy America, we can expect more. More riots, more violence. More resistance everywhere.

I would have more faith in the self-righteous exclamations and pronouncements from the government if they had ruthlessly hunted down every violent member of BLM and ANTIFA, and strung them the fuck up from a tall tree. Long, long rows of trees, decorated with those scum. Well, that certainly hasn't happened. Expecting real consistency and justice from a government full of cock-sucking Marxists and self-seeking bureaucrats eager to circle-jerk themselves into embracing any ideology as long as their ass gets buttered is futile. I'm certainly not holding my breath.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 02, 2021, 06:14:34 PM
...

I realize there are some people who exclusively focus on prejudice and imperialism by white people, but just because they are wrong, that doesn't mean that prejudice and imperialism are okay.

I agree with that sentiment, and I think most people probably do. I am in favor of the right of all peoples to self-govern. The only reason I even bring that up is because the hostile sentiment from CRT/Woke people is such that I don't want to live in areas where they wield political power (and violent mobs). I don't want any part of participating in a state that is going to try and smear me & my kids with racial guilt for stuff we never did, steal our property, and treat us like criminals.

I'd be happy to part ways with them.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 06:16:48 PM
Question in my mind is whether ScytheSong is just trying to rile people up or is being sincere. It's hard to believe sincerity when engaging in such bad tactics. Jump into a thread, make a bunch of questionable statements meant to frame discussion, then derail the whole thread by being evasive.

Just to try and keep this on track, much of critiques of power from figures such as Foucault that form the foundation of CRT have valuable insights worth paying attention to. Cynical Theories by Lindsay & Pluckrose does a fairly good job at showing the genealogy of these ideas.

The issue we see when it comes to CRT is its particularist anti-white agenda and focus on legalism rather than real-world harm.

It's pretty obvious when you look at the language they've purposefully constructed, talking about "White Fragility" "Whiteness" etc. Of course the claim is that these aren't meant specifically as ethnic markers. Lets be real -- It's explicitly targeting Whites/Europeans, and that's precisely why CRT has any degree of popularity, because it trades on racially-motived envy and hatred. Without that emotional hook it's just up-its-own-ass philosophizing about the nature of power and privilege, which we've already seen has no blood to actually motivate people.

What I've never had explained to me by a CRT person is why it's bad for European people to build societies that benefit European peoples. Seems like it's perfectly okay for Arabs to build Arab countries to benefit Arabs, for Africans to build African countries to benefit Africans, for Asians to build Asian countries to benefit Asians -- In many cases these people are doing shit that is way more shady and nefarious than what CRT people complain about -- But only European peoples are not allowed to build their own societies with their own rules for the benefit of themselves & their posterity.

Not playing that game.

So, one thing to note, I refuse to conflate Robin DiAngelo's White Fragility and related anti-racism training (some of which is a scam, including taking her comments out of context and without permission -- she sued Coca-Cola over this) and Critical Race Theory. The former is almost all either badly framed, uses jargon that is worse than useless, so basic that anyone who has had any exposure to the issues involved rolls their eyes, or is an outright grift. I can only think of one seminar that is actually well built for use in anti-racism training, but it involves actually going to and living in another country as a minority for a week.

Critical Race Theory, the way I understand and use it, is not that. CRT is a way of examining the legal history of the United States (that could be extended to other places, I suppose -- Japanese treatment of Koreans and other Gaijin, Native Hawai'ians and Haoles, Australian Whites and their aboriginal and Chinese minorities  are just a few examples off the top of my head) to examine how legal systems were used to keep the majority in power and the minority out of power, even in places where they were no longer technically a majority. Mind you, the construction of race that they use seems simplistic to me, but the times and places that they are examining were equally simplistic.

The problem continues to be that, because I haven't bent on this distinction, I can be seen as eating my cake and having it still -- I'll write a lot of folks off who are blathering about how evil CRT is because I know that what they're talking about is anti-racism, not CRT as I understand it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 02, 2021, 06:25:58 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 02, 2021, 06:48:05 PM
This is from a CRT textbook introduction:

The critical race theory (CRT) movement is a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transform- ing the relationship among race, racism, and power. The movement considers many of the same issues that conven- tional civil rights and ethnic studies discourses take up, but places them in a broader perspective that includes econom- ics, history, context, group- and self-interest, and even feel- ings and the unconscious. Unlike traditional civil rights, which embraces incrementalism and step-by-step progress, critical race theory questions the very foundations of the lib- eral order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, En- lightenment rationalism, and neutral principles of constitu- tional law.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 02, 2021, 06:57:47 PM
But wait, there is more  ;D

As the reader will see, critical race theory builds on the in- sights of two previous movements, critical legal studies and radical feminism, to both of which it owes a large debt.


All of this from:
Critical Race Theory An Introduction
By Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 02, 2021, 07:28:13 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Greetings!

That's right, Moonsweeper! You don't agree with his "understanding" of CRT, then that just shows how YOU don't understand CRT. Amazing. More and more people are quite clear in their understanding precisely of what CRT is--and reject it as terrible, racist, Marxist-inspired garbage.

The condescending self-righteousness reminds me of a Liberal jello-brained professor I had in college who essentially said the same thing--"Well, if you were as educated and well-traveled as I am, you would agree with my interpretation."

CRT isn't some deep, complex fucking mystery. People understand it very clearly--and have justly condemned it, and resist such bullshit.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 08:05:57 PM
Quote
I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Funny how those premeditated attempted murderers didn't bring a single firearm to the Capitol. Serious oversight, if you want to kill scumbags.

So by that logic, I assume you consider the 2018 insurrection during the confirmation hearings, where rioter/protestors/assholes broke into the Capitol to disrupt (which was partially successful) or prevent (unsuccessful) Kavanaugh's confirmation, possibly by assassinating him, was another example of trampling all over the Constitution, and that we should track down all those people, ruin their lives, file federal charges against all of them, and launch an investigation into the Critical Theorists and other leftist extremists who have proven to be such an existential threat to our democracy?

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 08:16:52 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 08:19:33 PM
Quote
I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Funny how those premeditated attempted murderers didn't bring a single firearm to the Capitol. Serious oversight, if you want to kill scumbags.

So by that logic, I assume you consider the 2018 insurrection during the confirmation hearings, where rioter/protestors/assholes broke into the Capitol to disrupt (which was partially successful) or prevent (unsuccessful) Kavanaugh's confirmation, possibly by assassinating him, was another example of trampling all over the Constitution, and that we should track down all those people, ruin their lives, file federal charges against all of them, and launch an investigation into the Critical Theorists and other leftist extremists who have proven to be such an existential threat to our democracy?

You don't need firearms to kill people when you have baseball bats, police-grade zipties, and a gallows.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 02, 2021, 08:24:04 PM
To the trash bin you go ScytheSong.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 08:43:06 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

(https://mablab.org/post/ropensci_files/wdijr.jpg)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 02, 2021, 08:44:46 PM
Yeah not sure I want to continue to entertain this level of trollery/obtuseness.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 02, 2021, 08:48:48 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

  I wince when I see people pretending to have actually read all of Das Capital and act like they were awake/remembered much of it.  Manifesto is manageable, but Marx was a terrible fucking writer.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 08:50:27 PM
Quote
I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Funny how those premeditated attempted murderers didn't bring a single firearm to the Capitol. Serious oversight, if you want to kill scumbags.

So by that logic, I assume you consider the 2018 insurrection during the confirmation hearings, where rioter/protestors/assholes broke into the Capitol to disrupt (which was partially successful) or prevent (unsuccessful) Kavanaugh's confirmation, possibly by assassinating him, was another example of trampling all over the Constitution, and that we should track down all those people, ruin their lives, file federal charges against all of them, and launch an investigation into the Critical Theorists and other leftist extremists who have proven to be such an existential threat to our democracy?

You don't need firearms to kill people when you have baseball bats, police-grade zipties, and a gallows.
Zip ties have killed more people than covid!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 02, 2021, 08:52:44 PM
(https://mablab.org/post/ropensci_files/wdijr.jpg)

I am stealing this meme.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 02, 2021, 08:54:43 PM
Quote
I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Funny how those premeditated attempted murderers didn't bring a single firearm to the Capitol. Serious oversight, if you want to kill scumbags.

So by that logic, I assume you consider the 2018 insurrection during the confirmation hearings, where rioter/protestors/assholes broke into the Capitol to disrupt (which was partially successful) or prevent (unsuccessful) Kavanaugh's confirmation, possibly by assassinating him, was another example of trampling all over the Constitution, and that we should track down all those people, ruin their lives, file federal charges against all of them, and launch an investigation into the Critical Theorists and other leftist extremists who have proven to be such an existential threat to our democracy?

You don't need firearms to kill people when you have baseball bats, police-grade zipties, and a gallows.
Zip ties have killed more people than covid!

  Baseball bats (and blugeons) have killed more people than AR-15s.   Scythe song is on to something, I didnt know that had a sweet gallows set up.  I guess the dumb motherfucker doesnt realize you are not getting past the guys with guns with baseball bats though. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 08:55:53 PM
Quote
I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Funny how those premeditated attempted murderers didn't bring a single firearm to the Capitol. Serious oversight, if you want to kill scumbags.

So by that logic, I assume you consider the 2018 insurrection during the confirmation hearings, where rioter/protestors/assholes broke into the Capitol to disrupt (which was partially successful) or prevent (unsuccessful) Kavanaugh's confirmation, possibly by assassinating him, was another example of trampling all over the Constitution, and that we should track down all those people, ruin their lives, file federal charges against all of them, and launch an investigation into the Critical Theorists and other leftist extremists who have proven to be such an existential threat to our democracy?

You don't need firearms to kill people when you have baseball bats, police-grade zipties, and a gallows.
Zip ties have killed more people than covid!

  Baseball bats (and blugeons) have killed more people than AR-15s.   This guy is on to something, I didnt know that had a sweet gallows set up.  I guess the dumb motherfucker doesnt realize you are not getting past the guys with guns with baseball bats though.
It's not a real gun unless it has a baseball bat.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on July 02, 2021, 09:17:21 PM
Quote
I didn't see the US Constitution trampled on back in January, so I don't know what you are talking about there, friend.

The part of the Constitution that was being trampled on was Article II, Section 1, as amended. You know the part where the Congress in separate sessions are required by the Constitution to open, read, and count the ballots? The process  that the rioters/protesters/assholes were breaking into the Capitol building to disrupt (which was successful) or prevent (Which was unsuccessful), possibly by killing the Speaker of the House and the President of the Senate (again, unsuccessful)?
Funny how those premeditated attempted murderers didn't bring a single firearm to the Capitol. Serious oversight, if you want to kill scumbags.

So by that logic, I assume you consider the 2018 insurrection during the confirmation hearings, where rioter/protestors/assholes broke into the Capitol to disrupt (which was partially successful) or prevent (unsuccessful) Kavanaugh's confirmation, possibly by assassinating him, was another example of trampling all over the Constitution, and that we should track down all those people, ruin their lives, file federal charges against all of them, and launch an investigation into the Critical Theorists and other leftist extremists who have proven to be such an existential threat to our democracy?

You don't need firearms to kill people when you have baseball bats, police-grade zipties, and a gallows.

They were going to use the Wuhan virus!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 02, 2021, 09:29:20 PM
Greetings!

Well, Communism, in very basic form, *can* work. We know this from history, as well as current anthropological and sociological study. However, the ingredients that go into the basic recipe for some level of working success have very little in common with modern Communists or Marxists. The essential requirements for a successful communal society embracing a more "Communistic Style" are the following attributes:

(1) RELIGIOUS/CULTURAL UNITY: Singular Religion/Culture of all participants

(2) SMALL SCALE: The community is--and remains--small in scale. A few hundred, maybe a few thousand people at most living in such a community.

(3) VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION: Everyone living within such a community does so entirely voluntarily, of their own free will, and suffering no form of imposed punishment or retribution against them for seeking to leave such a community, and live in an entirely different kind of community.

The historical examples I can think of are some communities in the Bible; Various American Indian tribes; and the Jewish Kabutzes. All, interestingly, also embrace each of the three essential attributes in order to approach any kind of working success.

None of that really stands as anything workable or realistic in the modern world, with nations of hundreds of millions of people, vastly different political, cultural, and religious views and ways of life.

So, at the end of the day, the naïve, moron modern Marxist can choke on the deeper truth that what they support as an ideology is deeply unchristian, wicked, tyrannical, and evil.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on July 02, 2021, 09:30:24 PM
This is from a CRT textbook introduction:

The critical race theory (CRT) movement is a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transform- ing the relationship among race, racism, and power. The movement considers many of the same issues that conven- tional civil rights and ethnic studies discourses take up, but places them in a broader perspective that includes econom- ics, history, context, group- and self-interest, and even feel- ings and the unconscious. Unlike traditional civil rights, which embraces incrementalism and step-by-step progress, critical race theory questions the very foundations of the lib- eral order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, En- lightenment rationalism, and neutral principles of constitu- tional law.

Thanks, Trond. To be specific, that seems to be from this book by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/344649.Critical_Race_Theory_An_Introduction

The rejection of neutral principles sounds like what I was talking about the rejection of race-neutral merit as an ideal.


I'm not saying these are inherently in Critical Race Theory, but they are perceived to be, by people on both sides.
None of that's Critical Race Theory. You're just adding a lot of confusion to the issue.

CRT starts with the assumption that everything is racist. Every person, every institution, and every interaction. That it's the norm. This is sometimes called systemic racism. Going deeper, it claims that race is an artificial construct created by white people, who used it to give themselves power, and exclude other people. They further claim that since white people benefit from it, they have a vested interest in maintaining the system, and usually can't even see how the structure of everything favors them. These are the unquestionable tenets of the movement.

This means Critical Race theorists never look for proof that racism exists in any situation.

I haven't read anything that called itself Critical Race Theory, but I've read about systemic racism from more traditional social science in my education studies - like Beverly Tatum's "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?" and ​Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow". Those are very concerned with looking at the data, but it is difficult to absolutely prove racism exists from social science data. Proof of any motivation or bias is difficult.

Some approaches assume that there is no racial prejudice, and only admit it exists if it can be definitely proven -- but in nearly any case, someone can propose alternate explanations. For example, maybe people are simply biased against names like Jamal rather than names like Greg, and it is the name rather than race. I think given the difficulty of absolute proof in social science, this sets the bar too high.

My point is that there is a lot of disagreement over a lot of what is considered Critical Race Theory, like systemic racism. I'm not expressing any expert opinion over that - but that's semantics, not a statement of position. What we're more concerned about is specific positions regarding race and racism, not the semantics of CRT. As I mentioned, many of the supposedly "anti-CRT" laws have no mention of CRT at all.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 09:39:20 PM
My point is that there is a lot of disagreement over a lot of what is considered Critical Race Theory, like systemic racism. I'm not expressing any expert opinion over that - but that's semantics, not a statement of position. What we're more concerned about is specific positions regarding race and racism, not the semantics of CRT. As I mentioned, many of the supposedly "anti-CRT" laws have no mention of CRT at all.
That's simply wrong. Look at what I said, and compare it to Trond's quotes. They're almost exactly the same. This isn't an accident. If you read almost any general book about Critical Race Theory, you'll find the same basic description, usually in the first chapter. This is not a case where there's a lot of confusion over what the term means. Everyone agrees on the basic elements that make up Critical Race Theory.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 02, 2021, 10:06:53 PM
My point is that there is a lot of disagreement over a lot of what is considered Critical Race Theory, like systemic racism. I'm not expressing any expert opinion over that - but that's semantics, not a statement of position. What we're more concerned about is specific positions regarding race and racism, not the semantics of CRT. As I mentioned, many of the supposedly "anti-CRT" laws have no mention of CRT at all.
That's simply wrong. Look at what I said, and compare it to Trond's quotes. They're almost exactly the same. This isn't an accident. If you read almost any general book about Critical Race Theory, you'll find the same basic description, usually in the first chapter. This is not a case where there's a lot of confusion over what the term means. Everyone agrees on the basic elements that make up Critical Race Theory.

Yawp. If you want to get to the root of the issue, just ask the question "What is a Critical Theory?"
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 10:24:12 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

  I wince when I see people pretending to have actually read all of Das Capital and act like they were awake/remembered much of it.  Manifesto is manageable, but Marx was a terrible fucking writer.

More like Engels was a fucking terrible editor. I know I got through all of the Manifesto, and I think I finished Das Kapital. But my reading list was insane when I was in Junior High and Highschool (because my dad was *really* *really* into giving me a Liberal Education (tm)). Plato's Republic and Discourses, Huxley's Brave New World, The Analects of Confucius, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, and a selection of Existentialists from Dostoevsky to Sartre. As well as Camus' The Stranger, Dianetics, the Book of Mormon, and the Bible (the last with Koine Greek lessons so I could read "the original"). I've been clocked reading theology textbooks at a page per minute for content. My brain does not work normally, I don't think.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ogre on July 02, 2021, 10:51:26 PM
My brain does not work normally, I don't think.
Yeah I see that, you agree with CRT.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 11:02:25 PM
My brain does not work normally, I don't think.
Yeah I see that, you agree with CRT.

CRT comes across as downright moderate compared to Liberation Theology, which I can go on at insane lengths about, too. (Hint: Liberation Theology really is a postmodern Marxist endeavor and I don't like it at all.)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on July 02, 2021, 11:08:39 PM
Scythe song is on to something, I didnt know that had a sweet gallows set up.
Well it was more of a toy gallows.   The noose was improperly tied, probably by a Boy Scout (since they don't learn the knot).

(https://media.zenfs.com/en-us/usa_today_opinion_532/05c2190dc79a08a14faf9d0f118dd2a3)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 02, 2021, 11:10:45 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

I never called anyone a Marxist...I pointed out that you were using the same tired old argument people have been using to defend communism forever.

...and anyone with your obvious knowledge of theology, etc., etc. would know that while Christianity may have ties to some of Marx's ideas, Christianity is a 'voluntarily' entered compact.

...and btw, where can I get these fancy 'police-grade' zip ties...all I have are the extra heavy-duty ones I picked at the hardware store.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 02, 2021, 11:23:10 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

I never called anyone a Marxist...I pointed out that you were using the same tired old argument people have been using to defend communism forever.

...and anyone with your obvious knowledge of theology, etc., etc. would know that while Christianity may have ties to some of Marx's ideas, Christianity is a 'voluntarily' entered compact.

...and btw, where can I get these fancy 'police-grade' zip ties...all I have are the extra heavy-duty ones I picked at the hardware store.

I failed at being funny. I can only defend myself by saying I have a very strange sense of humor/whimsey.

On the more serious question, I haven't done it, but a friend of mine in the security business gets the police-style zipties (the ones that can be used to actually restrain an adult male without stripping under pressure and start already looped)  from what he calls his "cop shop", a combination gun, military surplus, and police gear store. I think it was in Federal Way, Washington when last I heard.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 02, 2021, 11:39:03 PM

...and btw, where can I get these fancy 'police-grade' zip ties...all I have are the extra heavy-duty ones I picked at the hardware store.
The cops were handing them out at the door of the Capitol.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on July 02, 2021, 11:40:53 PM
To the trash bin you go ScytheSong.

Again, probably.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Spinachcat on July 02, 2021, 11:50:45 PM
Homeschool your kids or they will be indoctrinated. Pick one.

I'm an ex-special education teacher. Let me assure you that screaming at school boards changes nothing. Even state rulings will just mean they rebrand CRT and the leftist teachers feel the "moral duty" to double down on indoctrination.

And understand how teacher's unions work. If a teacher "gets in trouble" and "loses their job", the union and the district just shuffles them into another school.

Thus, teachers in states where CRT is outlawed can teach CRT until caught, then keep teaching CRT until fired, then get moved to another school (or work from home via zoom) where they will go back to teaching CRT.

Fortunately, homeschooling has never been more popular with more available resources so parents willing to step up for the kids will find local and/or online supportive communities.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 09:00:26 AM
This is from a CRT textbook introduction:

The critical race theory (CRT) movement is a collection of activists and scholars interested in studying and transform- ing the relationship among race, racism, and power. The movement considers many of the same issues that conven- tional civil rights and ethnic studies discourses take up, but places them in a broader perspective that includes econom- ics, history, context, group- and self-interest, and even feel- ings and the unconscious. Unlike traditional civil rights, which embraces incrementalism and step-by-step progress, critical race theory questions the very foundations of the lib- eral order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, En- lightenment rationalism, and neutral principles of constitu- tional law.

Thanks, Trond. To be specific, that seems to be from this book by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/344649.Critical_Race_Theory_An_Introduction

The rejection of neutral principles sounds like what I was talking about the rejection of race-neutral merit as an ideal.


I'm not saying these are inherently in Critical Race Theory, but they are perceived to be, by people on both sides.
None of that's Critical Race Theory. You're just adding a lot of confusion to the issue.

CRT starts with the assumption that everything is racist. Every person, every institution, and every interaction. That it's the norm. This is sometimes called systemic racism. Going deeper, it claims that race is an artificial construct created by white people, who used it to give themselves power, and exclude other people. They further claim that since white people benefit from it, they have a vested interest in maintaining the system, and usually can't even see how the structure of everything favors them. These are the unquestionable tenets of the movement.

This means Critical Race theorists never look for proof that racism exists in any situation.

I haven't read anything that called itself Critical Race Theory, but I've read about systemic racism from more traditional social science in my education studies - like Beverly Tatum's "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?" and ​Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow". Those are very concerned with looking at the data, but it is difficult to absolutely prove racism exists from social science data. Proof of any motivation or bias is difficult.

Some approaches assume that there is no racial prejudice, and only admit it exists if it can be definitely proven -- but in nearly any case, someone can propose alternate explanations. For example, maybe people are simply biased against names like Jamal rather than names like Greg, and it is the name rather than race. I think given the difficulty of absolute proof in social science, this sets the bar too high.

My point is that there is a lot of disagreement over a lot of what is considered Critical Race Theory, like systemic racism. I'm not expressing any expert opinion over that - but that's semantics, not a statement of position. What we're more concerned about is specific positions regarding race and racism, not the semantics of CRT. As I mentioned, many of the supposedly "anti-CRT" laws have no mention of CRT at all.

   CRT is nebulous by design.  It is anti white, and often makes a whole bunch of other racist assumptions and proclamations.   The fact its proponents always fall to "that isnt even CRT". Well that sounds a whole lot like the priests telling the masses they can not decipher the word of God.  I can tell you this,  if people keep pushing the anti white thing (and I do not care what any one calls it, that is a lot of what the real problem is) those people may finally create the monster they are so terrified of.  It is one thing to bully and beat a tiny minority, historically in this country that does not work out for the long game;  it is idiocy to attempt to do the same against an armed majority.   I could be wrong though, propagandists have never had the apparatus to push their bullshit in so many areas of life as they have now.   There are just some lines that are red, and can not be crossed without some other boxes checked. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ScytheSong on July 03, 2021, 09:18:29 AM
Damn things are called flex cuffs, zip-cuffs, or disposable handcuffs. Whee.

And now I'm off for a vacation with my wife and kids, something most of you probably know nothing about. See you all in about a week.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 03, 2021, 10:16:22 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 03, 2021, 10:21:53 AM
Damn things are called flex cuffs, zip-cuffs, or disposable handcuffs. Whee.

And now I'm off for a vacation with my wife and kids, something most of you probably know nothing about. See you all in about a week.

What an ass. At least the quality of posting here will improve by that much for about a week.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 03, 2021, 10:23:31 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?

I doubt he's even got kids or a wife or has been to college. I'm starting to suspect another sockpuppet troll.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 03, 2021, 10:31:05 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?

I doubt he's even got kids or a wife or has been to college. I'm starting to suspect another sockpuppet troll.

Pundit and the admins need to do some gatekeeping.  I already know that well liked long time user asked to have his account deleted and left this site.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 03, 2021, 10:36:48 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?

I doubt he's even got kids or a wife or has been to college. I'm starting to suspect another sockpuppet troll.

Pundit and the admins need to do some gatekeeping.  I already know that well liked long time user asked to have his account deleted and left this site.

Greetings!

WHO, Snowman?

Why did this member you are talking about leave the website here?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: HappyDaze on July 03, 2021, 10:48:11 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?

I doubt he's even got kids or a wife or has been to college. I'm starting to suspect another sockpuppet troll.

Pundit and the admins need to do some gatekeeping.  I already know that well liked long time user asked to have his account deleted and left this site.
I'm pretty sure gatekeeping is exactly what Pundit is opposed to. If someone left, that's their choice and it should be respected.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:00:04 AM
  I agree on the no gate keeping.  If the person is a sock puppet, I suspect it will show at some point.  I do not get that signal as yet.  As for the wife and kids...seemed an odd thing to mention, especially along with a vacation, but far from the biggest oddity I have read on the site.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 03, 2021, 11:20:42 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?

I doubt he's even got kids or a wife or has been to college. I'm starting to suspect another sockpuppet troll.

Pundit and the admins need to do some gatekeeping.  I already know that well liked long time user asked to have his account deleted and left this site.

Greetings!

WHO, Snowman?

Why did this member you are talking about leave the website here?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I will tell you in pm.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:28:07 AM
What odds is anyone offering on the children in that household growing up with mental issues?

I doubt he's even got kids or a wife or has been to college. I'm starting to suspect another sockpuppet troll.

Pundit and the admins need to do some gatekeeping.  I already know that well liked long time user asked to have his account deleted and left this site.

Greetings!

WHO, Snowman?

Why did this member you are talking about leave the website here?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I will tell you in pm.

   Wasn't it the dude who posted the naked forest girl in an attempt to get banned?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 03, 2021, 11:58:43 AM
   Wasn't it the dude who posted the naked forest girl in an attempt to get banned?

If that is Brad, then yes.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Doc Sammy on July 03, 2021, 12:27:16 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

Can't tell if trolling or just stupid
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: HappyDaze on July 03, 2021, 01:22:28 PM
   Wasn't it the dude who posted the naked forest girl in an attempt to get banned?

If that is Brad, then yes.
Oh, you said "well liked" and I didn't figure you could possibly be talking about B-rad.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 03, 2021, 01:49:47 PM
You get banned for naked forest girls now? Asking for a friend ;D
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on July 03, 2021, 05:06:42 PM
Damn things are called flex cuffs, zip-cuffs, or disposable handcuffs. Whee.

And now I'm off for a vacation with my wife and kids, something most of you probably know nothing about. See you all in about a week.

That’s true, I know nothing of your wife and kids.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Doc Sammy on July 03, 2021, 05:39:55 PM
...and we're back to the old "but 'true' communism has never been tried" argument...

Sure it has. Just read the second chapter of Acts in the Bible. Sts. Peter and James were the first Communists, and Marxism is a deeply Christian philosophy. Not that the Leninism, Trotskyism, or Maoism that followed were at all Christian, but they sure wanted to be Marxist, even though neither Russia nor China had either a true proletariat nor well-developed enough means of production to make a real go of it other than in limited areas.

Not to mention that most labor unions are far closer to Marx and Engels' ideal of communism than the People's Republic of China has ever managed.

Every time I see you people using the term "Marxist", I also wince (just like when you're using "woke") because it doesn't seem like you have any idea what Karl Marx actually wrote, or who Friedrich Engels might even be, or what Marxism actually is other than "Something I dislike for reasons I can't explain other than it seems to be liberal or leftist."

  I wince when I see people pretending to have actually read all of Das Capital and act like they were awake/remembered much of it.  Manifesto is manageable, but Marx was a terrible fucking writer.

More like Engels was a fucking terrible editor. I know I got through all of the Manifesto, and I think I finished Das Kapital. But my reading list was insane when I was in Junior High and Highschool (because my dad was *really* *really* into giving me a Liberal Education (tm)). Plato's Republic and Discourses, Huxley's Brave New World, The Analects of Confucius, Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, and a selection of Existentialists from Dostoevsky to Sartre. As well as Camus' The Stranger, Dianetics, the Book of Mormon, and the Bible (the last with Koine Greek lessons so I could read "the original"). I've been clocked reading theology textbooks at a page per minute for content. My brain does not work normally, I don't think.

I find it very ironic that "anti-capitalist" leftist zealots such as yourself are just useful idiots and unwitting pawns for neoliberal corporatists.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:34:55 PM
   Wasn't it the dude who posted the naked forest girl in an attempt to get banned?

If that is Brad, then yes.

   Was not Brad.   I am surprised he would leave.  Some of his interactions did look to me as if he was probably turning red IRL while typing them (and I can understand that). 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:36:17 PM
You get banned for naked forest girls now? Asking for a friend ;D

   I think Pundit deleted the pic, and refused to delete the dude's history (was not Brad).  I think he didnt ban him either.   Edited to add.....or was it Brad after a name change?  hmm.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Snowman0147 on July 04, 2021, 12:34:36 AM
You get banned for naked forest girls now? Asking for a friend ;D

   I think Pundit deleted the pic, and refused to delete the dude's history (was not Brad).  I think he didnt ban him either.   Edited to add.....or was it Brad after a name change?  hmm.

The discord was named Brad and I had not seen Brad at all lately on this site.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 04, 2021, 12:51:28 AM
He changed his name here before he 'left'.
I quoted him from an older post the other day and in my quote it showed as Brad.

and also this...

https://babylonbee.com/news/mounting-evidence-indicates-critical-race-theory-escaped-from-a-lab-in-a-college-humanities-department (https://babylonbee.com/news/mounting-evidence-indicates-critical-race-theory-escaped-from-a-lab-in-a-college-humanities-department)


 ;D
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Merrill on July 07, 2021, 09:11:50 AM
While CRT is kept deliberately nebulous, as others here have pointed out, there are some underlying assumptions that can be pointed out:

1. Any "criminal action" committed by a POC is a direct consequence of environment, and that environment/circumstance, is something created by the oppressive "other". That "other" is whiteness/white people. The consequences of this are a) the "fault" here lies with the oppressor, b) the action cannot be considered criminal

Now if you say that to someone who espouses CRT, they will scream it is a distortion. But then ask them questions regarding black-on-black crime, and see how fast they start framing things in relation to white power structures and systems of oppression. Through every circumlocution, they will affirm the point above, and not even know it.

When the BLM buses showed up in my city, dudes poured out and started looting and burning, assaulting people, etc., anyone who complained about it was asked to "check their privilege", or to understand how their own racism contributed to this "rightful rage". Again, white people are responsible for the burning of their own cities.

2. Systemic Racism is not something proven through empirical or logical means. It is always assumed in hindsight through "de facto" reasoning. Less black were admitted to a school than whites? The explanation has to be racism. More blacks in jail than whites? It is impossible that blocks commit more crimes --has to be racism.

3. White people of every background and ethnicity are thrown into one big entity called whiteness, and that supergroup is directly responsible for every human evil and system of oppression. The dehumanization of this group is a hallmark of CRT, and is historical. The Hutus dehumanized the Tutsis, Nazis the Jews, Bolsheviks the Ukrainians, etc. There is always a group out there that needs to be targeted because it has special privileges and rights, and because it is fundamentally evil

There are many other aspects to CRT, but the most important things are the political, ideological, and rhetorical objectives of the movement (it really isn't a school of thought, it is a movement). Those are revolutionary: the overthrow of capitalism, destruction of whiteness (white people), and the dictatorship of POC.

Now it should be said that Derrick Bell, the guy who basically created CRT from Neo-Marxism / Critical Theory back in the 1980s did not foresee or understand the full implications of where he was going with all of this. He once said:

"Power in the hands of the reformed is no less corrupting than in the hands of the oppressor"

So what happened? Well white women got a hold of this (Peggy McIntosh and others), and it became more radicalized. Black activists seized upon CRT without fully understanding the original ideas and began generalizing them, twisting them for specific purposes, etc. Much in the same way that Mao admitted that he didn't read much Marx or Lenin, wasn't any kind of Communist scholar, but that didn't matter. He was out for practical results.

---

Guys, no one is obligated to consider or respect such a pernicious and irrational system of thought / movement. I have been at gaming conventions drinking with fellow attendees when some dude starts going into his CRT platform, expecting that others will nod in agreement. He is shocked when I countersignal him hard, and begin shutting down his irrationalism and ignorance on the spot.

As a former college instructor (previous life --never again!), you just don't get to say a bunch of stupid shit in front of me and expect me to go along with it. Expect to be challenged.

---

And we know that in gaming, CRT has made big inroads in subtle ways. White characters, ethnic groups, and cultures are erased from books, supplements, or whole systems. Slavery becomes a forbidden topic. "Alternative" lifestyles are celebrated. Gaming companies signal hard on every "progressive issue" --and all of this is mostly out of fear.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Daztur on July 08, 2021, 12:46:14 AM
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/07/05/PDTF/e15bb746-a87b-4dc1-9801-4133d0c4d7c4-60621ThompsonCriticalRaceWeb.jpg)

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 08, 2021, 01:04:55 AM
*A new bad faith argument has arrived!*
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on July 08, 2021, 01:05:00 AM
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

He says adjusting his three masks to more completely cover his face.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on July 08, 2021, 01:37:15 AM
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

He says adjusting his three masks to more completely cover his face.

Greetings!

*Laughing* Nice, Shasarak! So true! ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 08, 2021, 02:31:14 AM
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

Some of us have been concerned about Critical Theory for years now.

https://twitter.com/themitchellfink/status/1412909635099529219

Do try to keep up.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: deathknight4044 on July 08, 2021, 07:15:26 AM
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/07/05/PDTF/e15bb746-a87b-4dc1-9801-4133d0c4d7c4-60621ThompsonCriticalRaceWeb.jpg)

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 08, 2021, 08:10:19 AM
CRT: it doesn't actually exist but we need to teach it in school, because reasons.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 08, 2021, 09:27:38 AM

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

“Microaggressions” are very much a CRT thing. Ever heard of that? Ring a bell? Because BLM used it to try to ruin Comic-Con when I went there years ago, and more recently they were pushing it at my workplace. But those are just my personal experiences.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Merrill on July 08, 2021, 09:43:25 AM

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

“Microaggressions” are very much a CRT thing. Ever heard of that? Ring a bell? Because BLM used it to try to ruin Comic-Con when I went there years ago, and more recently they were pushing it at my workplace. But those are just my personal experiences.

what happened at Comin-Con?

don't think I heard about that
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 08, 2021, 10:48:08 AM
I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

Some of us have been concerned about Critical Theory for years now.

https://twitter.com/themitchellfink/status/1412909635099529219

Do try to keep up.

Hell, this thread itself is almost a month old... ::)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 08, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
CRT: it doesn't actually exist but we need to teach it in school, because reasons.
NPR did an interview a couple weeks ago with a professor at some university. She said they only teach Critical Race Theory to graduate students, and only some of them, when it's relevant to their studies. The whole thrust of the piece was the worry about CRT in primary school was complete nonsense, because it's this very advanced and esoteric set of concepts that nobody's exposed to until they're Masters students, so all the parents are idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. Except NPR never talked to a primary school teacher, or to any of the people with concerns about CRT being taught to children.

It's evasion based on technical definitions. NPR is saying children aren't reading Gramsci and Crenshaw. Which is correct, but completely dishonest. Because people aren't concerned their children are being formally taught about CRT as a body of scholarship. They're concerned that the principles and conclusions of CRT are being incorporated into primary school education. Which is absolutely happening, as can be seen in things like the 1619 Project.

The dismissal of those concerns is completely two-faced, and the National Education Association's moves in the last few days is a perfect example. They started by passing a motion that supported CRT, with the clear intent to keep pushing it despite the resistance of parents (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9754609/Americas-largest-teachers-union-says-supports-teaching-children-critical-race-theory-schools.html), and then almost immediately started scrubbing their website of all traces of CRT. (https://news.yahoo.com/largest-teachers-union-erases-campaign-232740715.html) That goes beyond strawmanning the arguments of their opposition, as NPR did. It's blatant hypocrisy. The NEA are overtly supporting it, then pretending it doesn't exist when they're criticized.

Edit: Fixed a timing issue.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 08, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
CRT: it doesn't actually exist but we need to teach it in school, because reasons.
NPR did an interview a couple weeks ago with a professor at some university. She said they only teach Critical Race Theory to graduate students, and only some of them, when it's relevant to their studies. The whole thrust of the piece was the worry about CRT in primary school was complete nonsense, because it's this very advanced and esoteric set of concepts that nobody's exposed to until they're Masters students, so all the parents are idiots who have no idea what they're talking about. NPR never talked to a primary school teacher, or to any of the people with concerns about CRT being taught to children.

It's evasion based on technical definitions. NPR is saying children aren't reading Gramsci and Crenshaw. Which is correct, but completely dishonest. Because people aren't concerned their children are being formally taught about CRT as a body of scholarship. They're concerned that the principles and conclusions of CRT are being incorporated into primary school education. Which is absolutely happening, as can be seen in things like the 1619 Project.

The dismissal of those concerns is completely two-faced, and the National Education Association's moves in the last few days is a perfect example. They started by passing a motion that supported CRT, with the clear intent to keep pushing it despite the resistance of parents (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9754609/Americas-largest-teachers-union-says-supports-teaching-children-critical-race-theory-schools.html), while at the same time they're scrubbing their website of all traces of CRT. (https://news.yahoo.com/largest-teachers-union-erases-campaign-232740715.html) That goes beyond strawmanning the arguments of their opposition. It's blatant hypocrisy. They're overtly supporting it, while pretending it doesn't exist.
Personally, I could support teaching CRT... as long as it's done in the original German.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 08, 2021, 03:55:09 PM

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

“Microaggressions” are very much a CRT thing. Ever heard of that? Ring a bell? Because BLM used it to try to ruin Comic-Con when I went there years ago, and more recently they were pushing it at my workplace. But those are just my personal experiences.

what happened at Comin-Con?

don't think I heard about that

This was several years ago. BLM were present and sort of milling around in the hallways, asking people to look out for microaggressions. Some people clapped, but you could tell it didn't actually make people more jolly. Something I didn't see personally was that they found someone to pounce on. It was filmed and shared on youtube (I can't find it right now, maybe removed), showing some white (?) woman dressed up as Whoopi Goldberg (Sister Act I believe) being attacked and shouted at for wearing blackface. I never saw her face clearly but I honestly don't care if she smeared shoe polish all over; she was a fan of Whoopi, not someone making fun of black people.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 09, 2021, 04:34:53 PM
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2021/07/05/PDTF/e15bb746-a87b-4dc1-9801-4133d0c4d7c4-60621ThompsonCriticalRaceWeb.jpg)

I wonder what fringe thing all of you will suddenly and in perfect unison become outraged about at the exact same time?

   Fringe?  1. Fauci lied about what he knew.  Flat out.  2. Boys competing against girls is not fringe, and you are about to see some bullshit popping off if that becomes a federal issue.   3. CRT is pushed right now in education.   In class?  No, but pushed HARD on teachers in many states right now?  Damn right. 

   You are going to find out the word fringe may not mean what you think it does.  If you mess around with people's kids it is literally the ONE thing you dumb fucks might be able to do to get violence out of them.  I suggest you stop.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 10, 2021, 02:50:38 PM
I still can't get over the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus doing a song about how 'we're coming for your children'.

And then trying to shake it all off as 'it's just satire, bro!' when people go ballistic.

Ye gods. Set aside any opinions on alternate sexual practices and attractions. How dense do you have to be to make a song like that and not realize people might react badly?

(The icing on the cake is how more than a couple of those ... persons are registered sex offenders. Oops.)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 10, 2021, 03:34:57 PM
(The icing on the cake is how more than a couple of those ... persons are registered sex offenders. Oops.)

Where did you get that from?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on July 10, 2021, 04:10:40 PM
(The icing on the cake is how more than a couple of those ... persons are registered sex offenders. Oops.)

Where did you get that from?
I heard in some podcast that 4chan was tracking them down. Don't think it's been confirmed, so it should be considered highly suspect at the moment.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: moonsweeper on July 10, 2021, 06:25:12 PM
(The icing on the cake is how more than a couple of those ... persons are registered sex offenders. Oops.)

Where did you get that from?
I heard in some podcast that 4chan was tracking them down. Don't think it's been confirmed, so it should be considered highly suspect at the moment.

They came up with 4 or 5 matches almost right away if I remember correctly, then I think they have found some more since.  I think the initial ones specifically had charges related to the 'under the age of 14' category.

I haven't seen an independent confirmation yet, but they did a good job of outing that one shooter in Portland in less than 12 hours.  Then the police had to admit they were right a few days later...so I guess we will see.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 10, 2021, 08:03:58 PM
The sex offender angle is shaky, and should be kept at arm's length until they have some solid information.

But a bunch of gay guys singing about how they're coming for your children is stupendously tone deaf, regardless of their intentions.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 11, 2021, 09:18:53 PM
The sex offender angle is shaky, and should be kept at arm's length until they have some solid information.

But a bunch of gay guys singing about how they're coming for your children is stupendously tone deaf, regardless of their intentions.
'Tone deaf' is probably the most generous way to put it.

I mean, how goddamn rock fucking stupid do you have to be to sing a song about how 'we're going to convert your kids'? Watching them scramble to say 'It's just a joke, bro!' reminds me of jackasses in high school who'd push someone to their limit then try to retreat behind 'it's just a joke!'.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 11, 2021, 10:09:22 PM
The sex offender angle is shaky, and should be kept at arm's length until they have some solid information.

But a bunch of gay guys singing about how they're coming for your children is stupendously tone deaf, regardless of their intentions.
'Tone deaf' is probably the most generous way to put it.

I mean, how goddamn rock fucking stupid do you have to be to sing a song about how 'we're going to convert your kids'? Watching them scramble to say 'It's just a joke, bro!' reminds me of jackasses in high school who'd push someone to their limit then try to retreat behind 'it's just a joke!'.

I think that parallel is pretty appropriate. Like most activism, once they get any kind of social or political power, they become the things they hated.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: KingCheops on July 12, 2021, 11:16:25 AM
The sex offender angle is shaky, and should be kept at arm's length until they have some solid information.

But a bunch of gay guys singing about how they're coming for your children is stupendously tone deaf, regardless of their intentions.
'Tone deaf' is probably the most generous way to put it.

I mean, how goddamn rock fucking stupid do you have to be to sing a song about how 'we're going to convert your kids'? Watching them scramble to say 'It's just a joke, bro!' reminds me of jackasses in high school who'd push someone to their limit then try to retreat behind 'it's just a joke!'.

Boys will be boys dude!  (until we make them all gay drag queens)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on July 12, 2021, 03:57:30 PM
First off: Having listened to and read the actual lyrics of the song, "converting your children" is supposedly meant to mean that they'll make them "more tolerant, non-bigoted and into allies" and not actually into gay people. (And after them, you're next)

So, not gay, just people who wount persecute them for being gay.

That said...

Secondly: Seriously, "coming for your children" makes me think they should have watched this sketch first
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqgiEQXGetI because that is seriously lacking in forethought



Thirdly: I work with kids/teenagers. They are natural rebels, and now you're giving them wokeness to rebel against.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 12, 2021, 04:08:00 PM
First off: Having listened to and read the actual lyrics of the song, "converting your children" is supposedly meant to mean that they'll make them "more tolerant, non-bigoted and into allies" and not actually into gay people. (And after them, you're next)

So, not gay, just people who wount persecute them for being gay.

That said...

Secondly: Seriously, "coming for your children" makes me think they should have watched this sketch first
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqgiEQXGetI because that is seriously lacking in forethought



Thirdly: I work with kids/teenagers. They are natural rebels, and now you're giving them wokeness to rebel against.

   Well, the thing is their definition of tolerant and non bigoted is not really that.  Their definition of tolerance is full acceptance and celebration.   I wonder how funny they would have thought it was if some right wing people did a country song about locking up/killing all the gays (since that is a trope these people feel is true, just as there are many conservative types who believe many homosexuals are also child predators) as satire?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 12, 2021, 05:33:27 PM
Secondly: Seriously, "coming for your children" makes me think they should have watched this sketch first

The song didn't just appear from the ether. The men in question are well aware of the double meaning; it's not like it's some obscure or fringe slang. They wrote the song purposefully with the innuendo in mind. And there's a lot of men in this group, who all heard the song and approved of the messages that it's communicating.

This wasn't done on a lark. They wrote the song, practiced it, got a recording studio, video equipment, performed it, did audio & video production, and publicized their work. They demonstrated a lot of effort into the whole endeavor, to communicate a message, and they knew this message would be offensive and subversive.

Nevertheless they went ahead with it all. They show a lot of enthusiasm for the message, so I'm going to take them at their word.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on July 12, 2021, 06:44:19 PM

   Well, the thing is their definition of tolerant and non bigoted is not really that.  Their definition of tolerance is full acceptance and celebration.   I wonder how funny they would have thought it was if some right wing people did a country song about locking up/killing all the gays (since that is a trope these people feel is true, just as there are many conservative types who believe many homosexuals are also child predators) as satire?

I see. So what would the real (i.e your) definition of tolerance and non-bigoted be?


Quote

The song didn't just appear from the ether. The men in question are well aware of the double meaning; it's not like it's some obscure or fringe slang. They wrote the song purposefully with the innuendo in mind. And there's a lot of men in this group, who all heard the song and approved of the messages that it's communicating.

This wasn't done on a lark. They wrote the song, practiced it, got a recording studio, video equipment, performed it, did audio & video production, and publicized their work. They demonstrated a lot of effort into the whole endeavor, to communicate a message, and they knew this message would be offensive and subversive.

Nevertheless they went ahead with it all. They show a lot of enthusiasm for the message, so I'm going to take them at their word.


Sounds like you're saying they were counting on easily triggered right wing pundits like Ben Shapiro and youtubers getting their 15 minutes of content
 (with some witty title like "homosexual libtards own by facts and immediately regrets it") before they move on to the next thing to be outraged by so they can get their daily clicks.

Now why would they (the SFGC) do such a thing?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 12, 2021, 09:54:24 PM
Sounds like you're saying they were counting on easily triggered right wing pundits like Ben Shapiro and youtubers getting their 15 minutes of content
 (with some witty title like "homosexual libtards own by facts and immediately regrets it") before they move on to the next thing to be outraged by so they can get their daily clicks.

Now why would they (the SFGC) do such a thing?

I don't see a need to invent weird theories about how this was a super-secret ploy. These guys get excited about the prospect of coming for your children, and they don't think there will be any consequences for admitting it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 12, 2021, 10:21:54 PM

   Well, the thing is their definition of tolerant and non bigoted is not really that.  Their definition of tolerance is full acceptance and celebration.   I wonder how funny they would have thought it was if some right wing people did a country song about locking up/killing all the gays (since that is a trope these people feel is true, just as there are many conservative types who believe many homosexuals are also child predators) as satire?

I see. So what would the real (i.e your) definition of tolerance and non-bigoted be?


Quote

The song didn't just appear from the ether. The men in question are well aware of the double meaning; it's not like it's some obscure or fringe slang. They wrote the song purposefully with the innuendo in mind. And there's a lot of men in this group, who all heard the song and approved of the messages that it's communicating.

This wasn't done on a lark. They wrote the song, practiced it, got a recording studio, video equipment, performed it, did audio & video production, and publicized their work. They demonstrated a lot of effort into the whole endeavor, to communicate a message, and they knew this message would be offensive and subversive.

Nevertheless they went ahead with it all. They show a lot of enthusiasm for the message, so I'm going to take them at their word.


Sounds like you're saying they were counting on easily triggered right wing pundits like Ben Shapiro and youtubers getting their 15 minutes of content
 (with some witty title like "homosexual libtards own by facts and immediately regrets it") before they move on to the next thing to be outraged by so they can get their daily clicks.

Now why would they (the SFGC) do such a thing?

  Acceptance and celebration are NOT tolerance.  Is this confusing for you?  Tolerance means the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with.     
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 12, 2021, 10:30:32 PM
Sounds like you're saying they were counting on easily triggered right wing pundits like Ben Shapiro and youtubers getting their 15 minutes of content
 (with some witty title like "homosexual libtards own by facts and immediately regrets it") before they move on to the next thing to be outraged by so they can get their daily clicks.

Now why would they (the SFGC) do such a thing?

I don't see a need to invent weird theories about how this was a super-secret ploy. These guys get excited about the prospect of coming for your children, and they don't think there will be any consequences for admitting it.

   If you can not reproduce, you must recruit.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 13, 2021, 12:12:55 AM
If you ask me the gay quire boys are trolling, the way Proud Boys are trolling by constantly showing the ludicrous "white supremacy" hand signals. Both groups know that they're going to get a reaction and a good laugh at the others' expense.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 13, 2021, 12:19:45 AM
If you ask me the gay quire boys are trolling, the way Proud Boys are trolling by constantly showing the ludicrous "white supremacy" hand signals. Both groups know that they're going to get a reaction and a good laugh at the others' expense.

Seems their latest tactic is to put the video back up and then squeal about how they've gotten death threats.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/Soloists-of-S-F-Gay-Men-s-Chorus-receive-death-16305155.php

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on July 13, 2021, 12:22:14 AM
If you ask me the gay quire boys are trolling, the way Proud Boys are trolling by constantly showing the ludicrous "white supremacy" hand signals. Both groups know that they're going to get a reaction and a good laugh at the others' expense.

Seems their latest tactic is to put the video back up and then squeal about how they've gotten death threats.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/Soloists-of-S-F-Gay-Men-s-Chorus-receive-death-16305155.php

I guess that's a major difference; the Proud Boys mainly complain when they're put in jail.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 13, 2021, 02:48:13 AM
Seems their latest tactic is to put the video back up and then squeal about how they've gotten death threats.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/Soloists-of-S-F-Gay-Men-s-Chorus-receive-death-16305155.php

This is actually a worthwhile test to demonstrate the SF Gay Men's Chorus' motives.

It is, I hope, a non-controversial opinion that grooming/coercing/* children is a bad thing. So was it a troll job, did they apologize for making a joke in very poor-taste purely for the titillation factor?

Reading the article, I'm not seeing any sign of remorse or apology. Instead the reaction seems to be to try and play the victim.

For the record, I fully support death threats against people who promote sexual violence against children.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on July 13, 2021, 03:29:22 AM
Nevertheless they went ahead with it all. They show a lot of enthusiasm for the message, so I'm going to take them at their word.

For the record, I fully support death threats against people who promote sexual violence against children.

If you are taking them at their word, then what they intend to do is convert children into being "tolerant and fair", and "teach them not to hate". That's what the lyrics of the song actually say. It sounds like you're *not* taking them at their word, and instead reading something other than the literal meaning into the song.

It is absolutely a reference and parody of conservative allegations that gay people are all child molesters, but the intent of the song is to deny those allegations and push a different message instead. One can say it is in bad taste, but the literal meaning of the words spoken is clear.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on July 13, 2021, 05:16:35 AM
If you are taking them at their word, then what they intend to do is convert children into being "tolerant and fair", and "teach them not to hate"...

One can say it is in bad taste, but...

If taking them at their word means making kids "tolerant and fair" and "teaching them not to hate" then how is it also simultaneously in bad taste?

Seems like you are being disingenuous here.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 08:05:47 AM
If you are taking them at their word, then what they intend to do is convert children into being "tolerant and fair", and "teach them not to hate"...

One can say it is in bad taste, but...

If taking them at their word means making kids "tolerant and fair" and "teaching them not to hate" then how is it also simultaneously in bad taste?

Seems like you are being disingenuous here.
Using the phrases 'we're coming for your kids' and 'conversion' strikes me as an amazingly bad way to say 'we want to teach them tolerance' at best.

So yeah. They're backpedaling because they know people get excited about grooming. There are plenty of legal precedents and laws regarding that, and then you get to 'angry parent lynch mob'.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on July 13, 2021, 11:32:35 AM
 I have to LOL at death threats over the internet though.  That is what most people call Monday.  Now someone shows up to where you are, or even calls you on a personal line, I might start to have concerns.   Those fellas in their future satire moments, where they already know they are going to royally piss people off might want to be careful about their language if online threats bother them.  You can sandwich tolerant and non-bigoted into lyrics calling gen Z gayer than Grinder and talking about coming for children if you like, but my advice is it is better to back away from the Rubicon.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 01:44:54 PM
I have to LOL at death threats over the internet though.  That is what most people call Monday.  Now someone shows up to where you are, or even calls you on a personal line, I might start to have concerns.   Those fellas in their future satire moments, where they already know they are going to royally piss people off might want to be careful about their language if online threats bother them.  You can sandwich tolerant and non-bigoted into lyrics calling gen Z gayer than Grinder and talking about coming for children if you like, but my advice is it is better to back away from the Rubicon.
Well, it's been demonstrated that if you even talk about someone it's TOTALLY the same as murdering them eleventy billion times. No, really.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on July 13, 2021, 05:24:58 PM
Nevertheless they went ahead with it all. They show a lot of enthusiasm for the message, so I'm going to take them at their word.

For the record, I fully support death threats against people who promote sexual violence against children.

If you are taking them at their word, then what they intend to do is convert children into being "tolerant and fair", and "teach them not to hate". That's what the lyrics of the song actually say. It sounds like you're *not* taking them at their word, and instead reading something other than the literal meaning into the song.

It is absolutely a reference and parody of conservative allegations that gay people are all child molesters, but the intent of the song is to deny those allegations and push a different message instead. One can say it is in bad taste, but the literal meaning of the words spoken is clear.

I like and agree with Matt Walsh's take on it.



At best, and most generous interpretation, the Gay Choir was being a bunch of condescending assholes, and they knew it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on July 13, 2021, 07:00:03 PM
If taking them at their word means making kids "tolerant and fair" and "teaching them not to hate" then how is it also simultaneously in bad taste?

Seems like you are being disingenuous here.
Clearly there's a huge overlap in the SF gay choir membership and NAMBLA.


Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Doc Sammy on July 13, 2021, 07:25:05 PM
Fuck the SF Chorus.

Most of those "SF" queers are either NAMBLA rejects or wannabe trannies who do not have the balls to go all the way with transitioning (no pun intended)

Seriously though, fuck those guys for undoing decades of hard-fought work. Now the traditionalist redneck whores are going to have a field day with this little stunt.

On behalf of the GLB community, let me say that the San Francisco Gay Chorus can go fuck itself and we are NOT coming after your children. No matter how much both far-right puritan rednecks and far-left pedophiles wish it were the case.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on July 13, 2021, 09:35:43 PM
Fuck the SF Chorus.

Most of those "SF" queers are either NAMBLA rejects or wannabe trannies who do not have the balls to go all the way with transitioning (no pun intended)

Seriously though, fuck those guys for undoing decades of hard-fought work. Now the traditionalist redneck whores are going to have a field day with this little stunt.

On behalf of the GLB community, let me say that the San Francisco Gay Chorus can go fuck itself and we are NOT coming after your children. No matter how much both far-right puritan rednecks and far-left pedophiles wish it were the case.
Thank you, Doc. I appreciate that.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Jaeger on July 14, 2021, 03:58:04 AM
...
Clearly there's a huge overlap in the SF gay choir membership and NAMBLA.

Fuck the SF Chorus.

Most of those "SF" queers are either NAMBLA rejects ...

I think I'm gonna side with Doc Sammy on this one...

(https://social.infogalactic.com/images/posts/555cf0c9-42f4-42d3-b818-0423ddc81324/original-5e2c7bd70f2769b9f41597ff02158d02.jpeg?v=63792969773)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on September 06, 2021, 06:54:40 PM
As I have been saying for a long time: “Wokeness” is so often just an excuse to bully and belittle people:

https://mobile.twitter.com/sarahbeth345/status/1433949909846085638
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on September 06, 2021, 07:52:50 PM
As I have been saying for a long time: “Wokeness” is so often just an excuse to bully and belittle people:

https://mobile.twitter.com/sarahbeth345/status/1433949909846085638

Woke is cringy
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 06, 2021, 08:05:52 PM
As I have been saying for a long time: “Wokeness” is so often just an excuse to bully and belittle people:

https://mobile.twitter.com/sarahbeth345/status/1433949909846085638

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ogre on September 06, 2021, 09:26:23 PM
Fuck the SF Chorus.

Most of those "SF" queers are either NAMBLA rejects or wannabe trannies who do not have the balls to go all the way with transitioning (no pun intended)

Seriously though, fuck those guys for undoing decades of hard-fought work. Now the traditionalist redneck whores are going to have a field day with this little stunt.

On behalf of the GLB community, let me say that the San Francisco Gay Chorus can go fuck itself and we are NOT coming after your children. No matter how much both far-right puritan rednecks and far-left pedophiles wish it were the case.
Thank you for this awesome response.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: wmarshal on October 11, 2021, 04:32:02 PM
This thread would seem to fit for this:
https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2021/10/11/ny-times-story-on-the-bad-art-friend-is-remarkable-n421650

The utter evil of taking someone else’s generosity and work, and turning it into an issue resisting a “white savior” and appropriation.

I usually view the current progressive emphasis on being Woke and CRT as a kind of secular totalitarian cult, but I wonder if for a significant percentage it’s just a super-convenient vector for narcissists to build themselves up while tearing others down. Somehow, I think a true believer in the Woke cult couldn’t be this damn evil.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on October 11, 2021, 05:43:48 PM
This thread would seem to fit for this:
https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2021/10/11/ny-times-story-on-the-bad-art-friend-is-remarkable-n421650

The utter evil of taking someone else’s generosity and work, and turning it into an issue resisting a “white savior” and appropriation.

I usually view the current progressive emphasis on being Woke and CRT as a kind of secular totalitarian cult, but I wonder if for a significant percentage it’s just a super-convenient vector for narcissists to build themselves up while tearing others down. Somehow, I think a true believer in the Woke cult couldn’t be this damn evil.

I am generally positive in my interactions with people; HOWEVER Always remember that if you interact with a group of people, 3-4 % of them are likely to be on the sociopath/narcissistic spectrum, or possibly more.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 12, 2021, 05:14:17 PM
double posted, my bad.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on October 12, 2021, 05:14:34 PM
I am generally positive in my interactions with people; HOWEVER Always remember that if you interact with a group of people, 3-4 % of them are likely to be on the sociopath/narcissistic spectrum, or possibly more.

This largely varies by several factors. If you were raised in a shitty background, and struggles with insecurity problems then you’d ultimately believe someone like me is a narcissist.

If you were brought up the right away, then what other people do or don’t do, wouldn’t affect you at all. The woke movement is basically full of people with insecurity problems being manipulated by a grand master.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: JonKinator on October 31, 2021, 04:34:55 AM
I hope that woke culture finally ends
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on October 31, 2021, 10:33:42 AM
I am generally positive in my interactions with people; HOWEVER Always remember that if you interact with a group of people, 3-4 % of them are likely to be on the sociopath/narcissistic spectrum, or possibly more.

This largely varies by several factors. If you were raised in a shitty background, and struggles with insecurity problems then you’d ultimately believe someone like me is a narcissist.

If you were brought up the right away, then what other people do or don’t do, wouldn’t affect you at all. The woke movement is basically full of people with insecurity problems being manipulated by a grand master.

Of course it affects you. If you work with a lot of people you could be accused of something and fired for instance. If you’re not aware of this potential issue, you could make the situation worse for yourself.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 01, 2021, 01:41:48 PM
It's been a rough week for the race grifters.

Ibram X. Kendi managed to shred his own arguments about 'white privilege' when he posted a story about how white students were getting scholarships by lying about their color.

And someone pointed out 'if they're having to lie about their race to get a scholarship, are they really enjoying any privilege?'.

Whoops. Delete! Delete! LOL.

Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick talks about how the NFL draft is like a slave auction.

No really. This fro-headed overpaid moron went there. Who knew that racism involved offering you million dollar contracts if you could cut it in the combines?

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on November 01, 2021, 06:00:10 PM
It's been a rough week for the race grifters.

Ibram X. Kendi managed to shred his own arguments about 'white privilege' when he posted a story about how white students were getting scholarships by lying about their color.

And someone pointed out 'if they're having to lie about their race to get a scholarship, are they really enjoying any privilege?'.

Whoops. Delete! Delete! LOL.

Meanwhile, Colin Kaepernick talks about how the NFL draft is like a slave auction.

No really. This fro-headed overpaid moron went there. Who knew that racism involved offering you million dollar contracts if you could cut it in the combines?

As a Capitalist I have to admire their grifting skills.

If you cant milk money from rubes then what can you do?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 04, 2021, 09:07:19 AM
Some Democrats finally starting to get it? Took long enough. Here’s James Carville:

"What went wrong is stupid wokeness. Don’t just look at Virginia and New Jersey. Look at Long Island, Buffalo, look at Minneapolis, even look at Seattle, Washington. I mean this ‘defund the police’ lunacy, this take Abraham Lincoln’s name off of schools, people see that. And it really has a suppressive effect on all across the country on Democrats. Some of these people need to go to a woke detox center or something," Carville said.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: wmarshal on November 04, 2021, 09:44:37 AM
Some Democrats finally starting to get it? Took long enough. Here’s James Carville:

"What went wrong is stupid wokeness. Don’t just look at Virginia and New Jersey. Look at Long Island, Buffalo, look at Minneapolis, even look at Seattle, Washington. I mean this ‘defund the police’ lunacy, this take Abraham Lincoln’s name off of schools, people see that. And it really has a suppressive effect on all across the country on Democrats. Some of these people need to go to a woke detox center or something," Carville said.
He’s not wrong, but I doubt he will have any impact on the Woke now driving the Democrats. Even if his point of view gains any kind of traction that’ll merely accelerate his cancellation by the Woke.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: KingCheops on November 04, 2021, 09:50:18 AM
Some Democrats finally starting to get it? Took long enough. Here’s James Carville:

"What went wrong is stupid wokeness. Don’t just look at Virginia and New Jersey. Look at Long Island, Buffalo, look at Minneapolis, even look at Seattle, Washington. I mean this ‘defund the police’ lunacy, this take Abraham Lincoln’s name off of schools, people see that. And it really has a suppressive effect on all across the country on Democrats. Some of these people need to go to a woke detox center or something," Carville said.

He's actually been bringing this up since Trump's election.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 04, 2021, 03:28:09 PM

He's actually been bringing this up since Trump's election.

Maybe not too surprising since he has a conservative wife. That way, he can’t be too far into the bubble.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: KingCheops on November 04, 2021, 03:48:02 PM

He's actually been bringing this up since Trump's election.

Maybe not too surprising since he has a conservative wife. That way, he can’t be too far into the bubble.

He's also fairly realistic about things.  You can't win independents and moderates with a radical agenda.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on November 04, 2021, 09:19:18 PM
Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on November 04, 2021, 09:34:16 PM
Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.
That's pretty much the perspective of all the supposed moderates on the left.

I still don't understand how this happened. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago, none of these people believed any of this. Then, very suddenly, the extreme of the extreme of the extreme far left became the norm.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on November 04, 2021, 09:40:10 PM
Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

Greetings!

Exactly, Zelen!

Carville has always been a smart guy. Ruthless, scheming, power-hungry, and opportunistic. He simply argues for using ruses, deception, omission, misdirection, like you said, "Don't be obvious." He's always been a liberal fucktard though. He has always been a champion of the Leftist agenda. He, like some of the other Leftists, argue bitterly with the other members of the cult--but people like Carville have different priorities than the average SJW fanatic activist.

Carville's priorities
(1) WINNING
(2) POWER
(3) MONEY
(4) IDEOLOGY

The activists always put Ideology at number 1, so it isn't surprising that there are huge arguments over priorities, and methods, and imaging. Carville is still committed to the ideology though, he just understands imaging, propaganda, and doing what it takes to win and gain power are higher priorities, and which lead to money, influence, and more power, from which your ideology can thereby be enforced and imposed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 06, 2021, 09:35:12 AM
Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.

I don’t believe this is necessarily the case. Just because you want socialized medical care, and better nature conservation etc doesn’t mean that you agree that EVERYTHING has to be about race, or that the police should be abandoned for instance. I know a lot of people on the left, and many of them have been in denial about how strong the far left has gotten. In some cases it dawned on them when the news told them that things happening right before their eyes weren’t really happening, in other cases they will never change their minds. People are stubborn like that.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on November 07, 2021, 02:55:25 PM
I don’t believe this is necessarily the case...

Sure but Carville is an insider and he's been in politics for decades. He's not a blue dog democrat whose sole attachment to the Democrat party is having been a union member. The modern Democrat party is the party of the oligarchs & the radicals they use to push their agenda, and Carville played a big part in making it that way.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 08, 2021, 05:48:35 PM
I don’t believe this is necessarily the case. Just because you want socialized medical care, and better nature conservation etc doesn’t mean that you agree that EVERYTHING has to be about race, or that the police should be abandoned for instance. I know a lot of people on the left, and many of them have been in denial about how strong the far left has gotten. In some cases it dawned on them when the news told them that things happening right before their eyes weren’t really happening, in other cases they will never change their minds. People are stubborn like that.
Sure but Carville is an insider and he's been in politics for decades. He's not a blue dog democrat whose sole attachment to the Democrat party is having been a union member. The modern Democrat party is the party of the oligarchs & the radicals they use to push their agenda, and Carville played a big part in making it that way.

I would say that the modern Democrat party and the modern Republican party are both the party of the oligarchs. The far left has gotten stronger as part of the general trend of increasing partisanship. However, they're still a minority, as demonstrated by Biden getting the nomination - who is far from progressive or radical.

Politics has always been a game of voting for the lesser evil. The mainstream of both parties don't like the radicals / reactionary fringe within their parties -- but they can be forced to adjust some to popularity on some issues. I'd love to see some more cross-party cooperation on points like opposing the increasing power of corporations.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 07:19:10 PM
The woke are NOT turning a corner towards defeat. They are winning. People are too scared to really speak up.

Look at the culture wars. The non-left has lost every single battle. Biden is president; have you seen the budget he has planned? Nerdrotic is literally running away from California.

No, no "corner" has been turned.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 08, 2021, 07:52:18 PM
The woke are NOT turning a corner towards defeat. They are winning. People are too scared to really speak up.

Look at the culture wars. The non-left has lost every single battle. Biden is president; have you seen the budget he has planned? Nerdrotic is literally running away from California.

No, no "corner" has been turned.

We can point at specific instances. VA just got blasted, despite the Democrats trying hard to turn it into their usual "Handmaids racism!" trick.

Hard blue, leftist activist areas are going to hold out for quite a while longer, But there's some hope. No one was talking about Critical Race Theory just a few years ago, and now it was one of the important issues for VA voters.

I'd say we have turned a corner, but there's still a long way to go.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 08, 2021, 07:55:20 PM
I don’t believe this is necessarily the case. Just because you want socialized medical care, and better nature conservation etc doesn’t mean that you agree that EVERYTHING has to be about race, or that the police should be abandoned for instance. I know a lot of people on the left, and many of them have been in denial about how strong the far left has gotten. In some cases it dawned on them when the news told them that things happening right before their eyes weren’t really happening, in other cases they will never change their minds. People are stubborn like that.
Sure but Carville is an insider and he's been in politics for decades. He's not a blue dog democrat whose sole attachment to the Democrat party is having been a union member. The modern Democrat party is the party of the oligarchs & the radicals they use to push their agenda, and Carville played a big part in making it that way.

I would say that the modern Democrat party and the modern Republican party are both the party of the oligarchs. The far left has gotten stronger as part of the general trend of increasing partisanship. However, they're still a minority, as demonstrated by Biden getting the nomination - who is far from progressive or radical.

No, but he still pays lip service to radical progressives. When he's awake and not crapping his pants.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DragonBane on November 08, 2021, 08:01:03 PM
The woke are NOT turning a corner towards defeat. They are winning. People are too scared to really speak up.

Look at the culture wars. The non-left has lost every single battle. Biden is president; have you seen the budget he has planned? Nerdrotic is literally running away from California.

No, no "corner" has been turned.

We can point at specific instances. VA just got blasted, despite the Democrats trying hard to turn it into their usual "Handmaids racism!" trick.

Hard blue, leftist activist areas are going to hold out for quite a while longer, But there's some hope. No one was talking about Critical Race Theory just a few years ago, and now it was one of the important issues for VA voters.

I'd say we have turned a corner, but there's still a long way to go.


"Specific instances?" You call everything the SJWs have gained "specific instances?" They run the media, academia, the entertainment field, specific hate speech laws in their favor are the law, Biden is PRESIDENT,- how much really changed under Trump?- I could go on and on.

No, not "specific instances." The only "specific instances" are the things the SJWs do NOT dominate. Yet.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 09, 2021, 08:16:30 AM
Incrementalism is a thing.

Those of us who've been fighting gun control know this. And sometimes, you can't get a sweeping victory. So take what you can and plan for the next push.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Banjo Destructo on November 09, 2021, 10:06:14 AM
Carville's perspective is not, "Don't do this," it's "Don't be so obvious." Big difference.
That's pretty much the perspective of all the supposed moderates on the left.

I still don't understand how this happened. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago, none of these people believed any of this. Then, very suddenly, the extreme of the extreme of the extreme far left became the norm.

Hilary Clinton wanted to push some kind of healthcare for everyone plan back when she was first lady during her husband's presidency, so that was 1992-2000,  20-30 years ago.   I think most of the people at the top of the DNC, Democratic Party have been basically some form of progressive, or a marxist, or sympathetic to the USSR and other communist revolutions for over 40 years now, they just haven't been publicly obvious about it. Now there are younger people who don't feel ashamed of believing in this stuff, while the older people still want to hide it, but it has been there for a long time.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 09, 2021, 12:54:09 PM
I would say that the modern Democrat party and the modern Republican party are both the party of the oligarchs. The far left has gotten stronger as part of the general trend of increasing partisanship. However, they're still a minority, as demonstrated by Biden getting the nomination - who is far from progressive or radical.
No, but he still pays lip service to radical progressives.

Fair enough, but as you say, it is lip service that isn't reflected in his actions and policy.


I still don't understand how this happened. Ten years ago, or 15 years ago, none of these people believed any of this. Then, very suddenly, the extreme of the extreme of the extreme far left became the norm.

Hilary Clinton wanted to push some kind of healthcare for everyone plan back when she was first lady during her husband's presidency, so that was 1992-2000,  20-30 years ago.   I think most of the people at the top of the DNC, Democratic Party have been basically some form of progressive, or a marxist, or sympathetic to the USSR and other communist revolutions for over 40 years now, they just haven't been publicly obvious about it.

Truman and JFK both pushed universal health care decades earlier, and the creation of Medicare and Medicaid were compromises to that. But if you define universal health care as openly communist, then Israel is openly communist -- along with Japan, South Korea, Australia, and every other First World country with the exception of the U.S. That doesn't seem like a useful distinction.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on November 09, 2021, 06:02:25 PM

Hilary Clinton wanted to push some kind of healthcare for everyone plan back when she was first lady during her husband's presidency, so that was 1992-2000,  20-30 years ago.   I think most of the people at the top of the DNC, Democratic Party have been basically some form of progressive, or a marxist, or sympathetic to the USSR and other communist revolutions for over 40 years now, they just haven't been publicly obvious about it.

Truman and JFK both pushed universal health care decades earlier, and the creation of Medicare and Medicaid were compromises to that. But if you define universal health care as openly communist, then Israel is openly communist -- along with Japan, South Korea, Australia, and every other First World country with the exception of the U.S. That doesn't seem like a useful distinction.
By that logic, identifying cancerous tumors in your body isn't a useful distinction.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on November 09, 2021, 07:18:52 PM
Greetings!

Biden's "Lip Service" to the Leftist Radicals is somehow not reflected in his actions or policies?

Geesus. Put the fucking delusional Kool-Aid down.

Biden is one of the most Left-wing, radical, Marxist, fucking tyrant nutjobs that has ever ruled this country.

Listen to Dan Bongino, as well as Ben Shapiro, along with Walsh, Klaven, and others at the Daily Wire to learn all about how fucking radical and fucking left wing Biden has been with his actions and policies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 10, 2021, 07:58:42 AM
Greetings!

Biden's "Lip Service" to the Leftist Radicals is somehow not reflected in his actions or policies?

Geesus. Put the fucking delusional Kool-Aid down.

Biden is one of the most Left-wing, radical, Marxist, fucking tyrant nutjobs that has ever ruled this country.

Listen to Dan Bongino, as well as Ben Shapiro, along with Walsh, Klaven, and others at the Daily Wire to learn all about how fucking radical and fucking left wing Biden has been with his actions and policies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Point of order:

Biden's handlers are hard left.

I don't think Biden himself is in charge of much of anything, down to his bowel movements.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 10, 2021, 01:57:14 PM
Biden's "Lip Service" to the Leftist Radicals is somehow not reflected in his actions or policies?

Geesus. Put the fucking delusional Kool-Aid down.

Biden is one of the most Left-wing, radical, Marxist, fucking tyrant nutjobs that has ever ruled this country.

Listen to Dan Bongino, as well as Ben Shapiro, along with Walsh, Klaven, and others at the Daily Wire to learn all about how fucking radical and fucking left wing Biden has been with his actions and policies.

Do you have any specific arguments to discuss? I've been subscribed to updates from Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire for a while now.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 11, 2021, 09:30:11 AM
I don’t know how “hard left” Biden is at the core, as he speaks too much nonsense to be able to tell. You could sort of make a similar argument for Trump by the way, his actual stance on things was meandering and sometimes lost in unclear rhetoric.

What really pisses me off about Biden is that he is pandering to the race grifters pretty hard, in a country that is already hysterical about race. Going all out on the Georgia voting laws and calling them “Jim Crow on steroids” etc, after a year when people got killed or had their business burnt down in riots that were all about race, or their neighborhood occupied by thugs….well that’s pretty disgusting. It made him radioactive to me at least.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on November 11, 2021, 11:36:07 AM
Biden's "Lip Service" to the Leftist Radicals is somehow not reflected in his actions or policies?

Geesus. Put the fucking delusional Kool-Aid down.

Biden is one of the most Left-wing, radical, Marxist, fucking tyrant nutjobs that has ever ruled this country.

Listen to Dan Bongino, as well as Ben Shapiro, along with Walsh, Klaven, and others at the Daily Wire to learn all about how fucking radical and fucking left wing Biden has been with his actions and policies.

Do you have any specific arguments to discuss? I've been subscribed to updates from Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire for a while now.

Greetings!

Well, if you are a regular listener to Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Andrew Klaven, Michael Walsh, then you would know how fucking extreme LEFT and RADICAL Biden's actions and policies have been. Dan Bongino has also discussed on his program numerous occasions and episodes about how extreme LEFT and disastrous Biden has been for America.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 11, 2021, 02:46:02 PM
Do you have any specific arguments to discuss? I've been subscribed to updates from Ben Shapiro and the Daily Wire for a while now.

Well, if you are a regular listener to Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Andrew Klaven, Michael Walsh, then you would know how fucking extreme LEFT and RADICAL Biden's actions and policies have been. Dan Bongino has also discussed on his program numerous occasions and episodes about how extreme LEFT and disastrous Biden has been for America.

Of those, I only follow Ben Shapiro (mostly on Daily Wire). But I read a number of different news sources including both right-leaning and left-leaning, and I don't blindly swallow to any of them. In general, I'm pretty skeptical of basing my views of the world on "news", because essentially all news sources are sensationalized and biased. Even if politically moderate, they still tend to push outrage and clickbait over something.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 28, 2021, 10:31:26 AM
If anyone still wonders why people are seriously fed up with the “woke”:


“ Canadian school cancels ISIS survivor Nadia Murad over Islamophobia fears”
https://archive.md/XpitD

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 28, 2021, 11:45:48 AM
If anyone still wonders why people are seriously fed up with the “woke”:


“ Canadian school cancels ISIS survivor Nadia Murad over Islamophobia fears”
https://archive.md/XpitD
For those of you who are terminally uninformed, Nadia Murad is a Yazidi woman who was kidnapped into sex slavery by ISIS.

One more example of wokeists being quite comfortable with sex trafficking and rape. Whodathunk it?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 28, 2021, 11:55:06 PM
For those of you who are terminally uninformed, Nadia Murad is a Yazidi woman who was kidnapped into sex slavery by ISIS.

One more example of wokeists being quite comfortable with sex trafficking and rape. Whodathunk it?

I don't think they're "comfortable" with it. That's the kind of thinking that led us into this hopeless divisiveness. I just think that "Muslims doing bad" causes an cognitive error and near-shutdown of their brains.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2021, 08:16:19 AM
For those of you who are terminally uninformed, Nadia Murad is a Yazidi woman who was kidnapped into sex slavery by ISIS.

One more example of wokeists being quite comfortable with sex trafficking and rape. Whodathunk it?

I don't think they're "comfortable" with it. That's the kind of thinking that led us into this hopeless divisiveness. I just think that "Muslims doing bad" causes an cognitive error and near-shutdown of their brains.
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 29, 2021, 11:29:48 AM
For those of you who are terminally uninformed, Nadia Murad is a Yazidi woman who was kidnapped into sex slavery by ISIS.

One more example of wokeists being quite comfortable with sex trafficking and rape. Whodathunk it?

I don't think they're "comfortable" with it. That's the kind of thinking that led us into this hopeless divisiveness. I just think that "Muslims doing bad" causes an cognitive error and near-shutdown of their brains.
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

I know many "woke" leftists. Some think that Polanski should rot in jail for a lifetime, or even shot. I have seen this so many times; "pedophile" and "rape apologist" are insults that both sides like to hurl at each other, and of course when we're talking about millions of people it's always possible to find "evidence" that supports this view. Add to that a good dose of "my side means well, but sometimes things just go wrong. Those others though? Tsk tsk!"
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2021, 12:04:08 PM
For those of you who are terminally uninformed, Nadia Murad is a Yazidi woman who was kidnapped into sex slavery by ISIS.

One more example of wokeists being quite comfortable with sex trafficking and rape. Whodathunk it?

I don't think they're "comfortable" with it. That's the kind of thinking that led us into this hopeless divisiveness. I just think that "Muslims doing bad" causes an cognitive error and near-shutdown of their brains.
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

I know many "woke" leftists. Some think that Polanski should rot in jail for a lifetime, or even shot. I have seen this so many times; "pedophile" and "rape apologist" are insults that both sides like to hurl at each other, and of course when we're talking about millions of people it's always possible to find "evidence" that supports this view. Add to that a good dose of "my side means well, but sometimes things just go wrong. Those others though? Tsk tsk!"
Good. Make sure you keep a list. It'll be interesting to see how many want to put you in a camp for wrongthink.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on November 29, 2021, 12:26:06 PM
I know many "woke" leftists. Some think that Polanski should rot in jail for a lifetime, or even shot.

I don't doubt it, but the problem is that such leftists don't generally speak up to call out their more blind-eye-turning fellows in public. I am perfectly willing not to tar the moderates of any movement with an extremists' brush -- there is no movement which doesn't have destructive extremists -- but when the moderates stay conveniently silent as long as their extremist fringe's actions are still working to their benefit, that distinction becomes harder to buy.

(Larry Correia just recently posted a great rant (http://monsterhunternation.com/2021/11/23/do-i-unfairly-paint-the-left-with-a-broad-brush/) about this topic.)

I think one way we will know Wokism is on the decline is when its extremists finally start losing their own moderates' support.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2021, 01:14:34 PM
I know many "woke" leftists. Some think that Polanski should rot in jail for a lifetime, or even shot.

I don't doubt it, but the problem is that such leftists don't generally speak up to call out their more blind-eye-turning fellows in public. I am perfectly willing not to tar the moderates of any movement with an extremists' brush -- there is no movement which doesn't have destructive extremists -- but when the moderates stay conveniently silent as long as their extremist fringe's actions are still working to their benefit, that distinction becomes harder to buy.

(Larry Correia just recently posted a great rant (http://monsterhunternation.com/2021/11/23/do-i-unfairly-paint-the-left-with-a-broad-brush/) about this topic.)

I think one way we will know Wokism is on the decline is when its extremists finally start losing their own moderates' support.
Correia says it better than I ever could.

People say, 'But we're not all like that!' and my response is, 'How can I tell?'.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 29, 2021, 04:01:59 PM
I agree that way too few on the left point out the insanity. Bill Maher is firmly rooted on the left (because weed, and a personal feud with Trump, and a few other things) but he’s  among the few that will tell them to their face that they’re nuts. When asked why he doesn’t just shut up about it he responded “because you embarrass me!”

I agree, but I’d put it stronger than that. The current left isn’t just an embarrassment, they have been supporting people who have burned down parts of cities. The left can point to Jan 6, but that was more like vandalism to state property if you ask me, it didn’t scare my nearly as much.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wrath of God on November 29, 2021, 05:07:29 PM
Quote
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on November 29, 2021, 07:59:58 PM
Quote
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.

While not condoning him, I think that having his wife and unborn kid stabulated by a bunch of cultist psychos probably helped along Polanski's baser urges, which seems a bit different than the  "Wut? Wut's the problem?!?!" way in which the current crop of pedos are trying to normalize criminally deviant behavior.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 29, 2021, 09:22:55 PM
Quote
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.

While not condoning him, I think that having his wife and unborn kid stabulated by a bunch of cultist psychos probably helped along Polanski's baser urges, which seems a bit different than the  "Wut? Wut's the problem?!?!" way in which the current crop of pedos are trying to normalize criminally deviant behavior.
That was a theory I had as well, actually.

Doesn't excuse it, but it wouldn't surprise me if he turned into a nihilist of sorts after Sharon Tate's death. Reading Bugliosi's Helter Skelter, it's strongly indicated that Tate was having a stabilizing effect on his personality, slowly shifting him away from the 'Hollywood' lifestyle into something a little more presentable. To have that yanked away so savagely would've been disastrous.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 30, 2021, 01:30:58 PM
Quote
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.

Yes, you’ll definitely find leftists who are strongly opposed to any child molestation etc. Also check out several videos by Shoe0nhead (a Bernie supporter) for instance.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on November 30, 2021, 02:07:08 PM
Quote
Feel free to trawl through the usual leftist echo chambers and review how they talk about Joseph Rosenbaum.

Or contemplate how they continue to idolize Roman Polanski.

From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.

But it wasn't that that were out for him for being a pedo - the current crop of leftists support it so long as it's lumped into the current "LGBT$_&* abbreviation salad" and given a cutesy moniker.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2021, 02:30:25 PM
From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.

But it wasn't that that were out for him for being a pedo - the current crop of leftists support it so long as it's lumped into the current "LGBT$_&* abbreviation salad" and given a cutesy moniker.

Kevin Spacey was accused of same-sex pedophilia, and it seems to me he was cancelled just as thoroughly as straight pedophiles.

The old guard at Hollywood has for over a century covered up lots of scandals including pedophilia - with figures like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and their many predecessors. However, I don't see the current crop of leftists supporting this for same-sex cases like Spacey. Those who I know have been enthusiastic in the movement against Spacey just as much as figures like Weinstein and Epstein.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on November 30, 2021, 02:56:17 PM
  Hollywood has also had several movies it produced that were putting pedo's in a sympathetic role.  Others where they made some innuendos, and so forth.  Not a doubt in my mind they have a large contingent of blood suckers that bang kids IRL all the time.  I think it is nice we can still seem to all agree "Pedos bad", but I have a feeling all the shifting will eventually lead to a more direct course to make society more accepting of pedos.  Molesters and rapists IMO commit a crime that in many ways is WORSE for the victim than murder, and if there is a case for the death penalty...molestation and categories of rape should carry the death penalty if we were were actually healthy as a society.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
  Hollywood has also had several movies it produced that were putting pedo's in a sympathetic role.  Others where they made some innuendos, and so forth.  Not a doubt in my mind they have a large contingent of blood suckers that bang kids IRL all the time.  I think it is nice we can still seem to all agree "Pedos bad", but I have a feeling all the shifting will eventually lead to a more direct course to make society more accepting of pedos.

Society used to be more accepting of many practices that are now increasingly frowned on -- like how the age of consent has generally gone up, marital rape is now generally illegal, and there are a growing number of states that have made child marriage illegal. So I'd consider those to be positive developments.

That doesn't mean that things can't get worse in the future, of course. I certainly hope we don't backslide on this.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on November 30, 2021, 05:53:42 PM
Roman Polanski is an interesting one though. The guy was traumatized by WWII as well probably. I think they gassed most of his family. And then getting targeted by the Manson family. Holy shit.

 I remember people clapping for him in absentia during the Oscars, even when his abuse case was well known. Later I assume he was considered toxic again. Rightly so because that thing was creepy as hell. But if he turned out to be a serial killer I think many would still say “well at least I can see how he snapped”. Not easy to know what to think about the guy.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on November 30, 2021, 07:07:13 PM
  Hollywood has also had several movies it produced that were putting pedo's in a sympathetic role.  Others where they made some innuendos, and so forth.  Not a doubt in my mind they have a large contingent of blood suckers that bang kids IRL all the time.  I think it is nice we can still seem to all agree "Pedos bad", but I have a feeling all the shifting will eventually lead to a more direct course to make society more accepting of pedos.

Society used to be more accepting of many practices that are now increasingly frowned on -- like how the age of consent has generally gone up, marital rape is now generally illegal, and there are a growing number of states that have made child marriage illegal. So I'd consider those to be positive developments.

That doesn't mean that things can't get worse in the future, of course. I certainly hope we don't backslide on this.

To be fair, those all stem from a time when Western Europe was still shitting in the streets.  Married in early teens, squirt out a dozen pups hoping one or two survive, a grandparent in your 30s, dead by 40 or 45.  That, and there was just a lot less to have to learn back then, so there was less time to have to invest in ensuring society survived in future generations.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2021, 08:01:28 PM
Society used to be more accepting of many practices that are now increasingly frowned on -- like how the age of consent has generally gone up, marital rape is now generally illegal, and there are a growing number of states that have made child marriage illegal. So I'd consider those to be positive developments.

That doesn't mean that things can't get worse in the future, of course. I certainly hope we don't backslide on this.

To be fair, those all stem from a time when Western Europe was still shitting in the streets.  Married in early teens, squirt out a dozen pups hoping one or two survive, a grandparent in your 30s, dead by 40 or 45.  That, and there was just a lot less to have to learn back then, so there was less time to have to invest in ensuring society survived in future generations.

I agree about the origin, but (for example) Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin in 1957, which wasn't that long ago in the scheme of things. Child sexual abuse is still common, with estimates ranging from 5% to 15% of kids having experienced sexual abuse. It's hard to get accurate statistics on, though.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Daztur on November 30, 2021, 09:33:45 PM
  Hollywood has also had several movies it produced that were putting pedo's in a sympathetic role.  Others where they made some innuendos, and so forth.  Not a doubt in my mind they have a large contingent of blood suckers that bang kids IRL all the time.  I think it is nice we can still seem to all agree "Pedos bad", but I have a feeling all the shifting will eventually lead to a more direct course to make society more accepting of pedos.

Society used to be more accepting of many practices that are now increasingly frowned on -- like how the age of consent has generally gone up, marital rape is now generally illegal, and there are a growing number of states that have made child marriage illegal. So I'd consider those to be positive developments.

That doesn't mean that things can't get worse in the future, of course. I certainly hope we don't backslide on this.

To be fair, those all stem from a time when Western Europe was still shitting in the streets.  Married in early teens, squirt out a dozen pups hoping one or two survive, a grandparent in your 30s, dead by 40 or 45.  That, and there was just a lot less to have to learn back then, so there was less time to have to invest in ensuring society survived in future generations.

Child marriage is still legal in much of the US TODAY. Only six states have a total ban on all underage marriages (New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Rhode Island, and New York). This is not a rare thing, thousands of perfectly legal marriages of children to adults happen every year in the US.

6 twelve year-olds were legally married between 2000 and 2015.

Source: http://apps.frontline.org/child-marriage-by-the-numbers/

North Carolina has recently restricted child marriage, which is a very good thing as NC was until recently one of 13 states that allowed 14-15 year-old children to get married, but even with this new law it is still legal for 20 year-olds to marry 16 year-olds: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article253635118.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/15/north-carolina-child-marriage-new-bill
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 02, 2021, 10:35:49 AM
Some days, you wonder if we really are turning the corner. Other days you want to see stuff like this because only the truly deluded accept it.

https://mynorthwest.com/3116002/rantz-wsu-farmers-markets-food-charity-white-supremacy/

Evidently, agriculture and food charity are now 'white'.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on December 02, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
Nevertheless they went ahead with it all. They show a lot of enthusiasm for the message, so I'm going to take them at their word.

For the record, I fully support death threats against people who promote sexual violence against children.

If you are taking them at their word, then what they intend to do is convert children into being "tolerant and fair", and "teach them not to hate". That's what the lyrics of the song actually say. It sounds like you're *not* taking them at their word, and instead reading something other than the literal meaning into the song.

It is absolutely a reference and parody of conservative allegations that gay people are all child molesters, but the intent of the song is to deny those allegations and push a different message instead. One can say it is in bad taste, but the literal meaning of the words spoken is clear.

  I have never heard it as a conservative allegation that gay people are all child molesters.  I HAVE read that about 35 percent of all child molesters are gay men, which seems to be a disproportionate population share.   I have no idea as to how accurate it is.  I would say, the problem is you say take them at their word.  They have COMPLETELY different meanings for the words "tolerant" and "fair" than the general population.  I think it best they stick to taking zinc shots in the kisser and lay off the trolling about kids.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on December 07, 2021, 05:16:30 PM
Some days, you wonder if we really are turning the corner. Other days you want to see stuff like this because only the truly deluded accept it.

https://mynorthwest.com/3116002/rantz-wsu-farmers-markets-food-charity-white-supremacy/

Evidently, agriculture and food charity are now 'white'.

In that line of thinking this should red pill a lot of folks, it won't because it won't make the news because it would red pill a lot of folks.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on December 07, 2021, 05:23:17 PM
From my experience Woke SJW commies were for Polanski blood. It was older progressive liberals/moderate socialdemocrates with highly elitist streat that were defending him.

But it wasn't that that were out for him for being a pedo - the current crop of leftists support it so long as it's lumped into the current "LGBT$_&* abbreviation salad" and given a cutesy moniker.

Kevin Spacey was accused of same-sex pedophilia, and it seems to me he was cancelled just as thoroughly as straight pedophiles.

The old guard at Hollywood has for over a century covered up lots of scandals including pedophilia - with figures like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and their many predecessors. However, I don't see the current crop of leftists supporting this for same-sex cases like Spacey. Those who I know have been enthusiastic in the movement against Spacey just as much as figures like Weinstein and Epstein.

Where then is or was the rage against Spacey? He "came out" as gay and the news shifted to how brave he was.

As for leftists wanting to normalize pedophilia this is nothing new, look up the german pedo experiment, much of what passes for sexual "education/theory" this days was derived from a pedo and a guy that interviwed a pedo to theorize children's sexuality the latter and to theorize gender identity the first.

AND it's not like it's done in some obscure corner either, plenty of leftist publications have done the "Sympathetic pedo" articles.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on December 07, 2021, 06:12:36 PM
Kevin Spacey was accused of same-sex pedophilia, and it seems to me he was cancelled just as thoroughly as straight pedophiles.

The old guard at Hollywood has for over a century covered up lots of scandals including pedophilia - with figures like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and their many predecessors. However, I don't see the current crop of leftists supporting this for same-sex cases like Spacey. Those who I know have been enthusiastic in the movement against Spacey just as much as figures like Weinstein and Epstein.

Where then is or was the rage against Spacey? He "came out" as gay and the news shifted to how brave he was.

Spacey came out on the same day as the accusations (Oct 29, 2017). After this, his Gore Vidal biopic with Netflix was cancelled, and he was dropped from House of Cards and all other Netflix projects. His already-shot role in "All the Money in the World" was cut and re-shot with Christopher Plummer in his former role. The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences rescinded his International Emmy Founders Award. His publicist Staci Wolfe and talent agency Creative Artists Agency dropped him. His UK-based non-profit the Kevin Spacey Foundation was closed. Here's a timeline:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rise-fall-kevin-spacey-timeline-sexual-assault-allegations/story?id=63420983

As far as I can see, his only project in the 4 years since the scandal has been a small part in an Italian movie. From what I've seen, it's fair to say that he was cancelled. If you have any links that contradicts this, I'd be interested.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on December 07, 2021, 06:22:13 PM
Kevin Spacey was accused of same-sex pedophilia, and it seems to me he was cancelled just as thoroughly as straight pedophiles.

The old guard at Hollywood has for over a century covered up lots of scandals including pedophilia - with figures like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and their many predecessors. However, I don't see the current crop of leftists supporting this for same-sex cases like Spacey. Those who I know have been enthusiastic in the movement against Spacey just as much as figures like Weinstein and Epstein.

Where then is or was the rage against Spacey? He "came out" as gay and the news shifted to how brave he was.

Spacey came out on the same day as the accusations (Oct 29, 2017). After this, his Gore Vidal biopic with Netflix was cancelled, and he was dropped from House of Cards and all other Netflix projects. His already-shot role in "All the Money in the World" was cut and re-shot with Christopher Plummer in his former role. The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences rescinded his International Emmy Founders Award. His publicist Staci Wolfe and talent agency Creative Artists Agency dropped him. His UK-based non-profit the Kevin Spacey Foundation was closed. Here's a timeline:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rise-fall-kevin-spacey-timeline-sexual-assault-allegations/story?id=63420983

As far as I can see, his only project in the 4 years since the scandal has been a small part in an Italian movie. From what I've seen, it's fair to say that he was cancelled. If you have any links that contradicts this, I'd be interested.

So he got the same treatment as those who got metooed for making a deal with grown ass women for sex in exchange of fame?

After raping minors? Where are the calls to put him in prison? Because I sure as fuck saw lots of that for the metoo movement.

And you don't adress the rest of my post, maybe because you know you can't argue against facts?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on December 07, 2021, 08:53:38 PM
Not sure where else to put this. University harassment training:

(https://i.redd.it/bn7b9v3e48481.jpg)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 08, 2021, 08:16:21 AM
Kevin Spacey was accused of same-sex pedophilia, and it seems to me he was cancelled just as thoroughly as straight pedophiles.

The old guard at Hollywood has for over a century covered up lots of scandals including pedophilia - with figures like Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein and their many predecessors. However, I don't see the current crop of leftists supporting this for same-sex cases like Spacey. Those who I know have been enthusiastic in the movement against Spacey just as much as figures like Weinstein and Epstein.

Where then is or was the rage against Spacey? He "came out" as gay and the news shifted to how brave he was.

Spacey came out on the same day as the accusations (Oct 29, 2017). After this, his Gore Vidal biopic with Netflix was cancelled, and he was dropped from House of Cards and all other Netflix projects. His already-shot role in "All the Money in the World" was cut and re-shot with Christopher Plummer in his former role. The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences rescinded his International Emmy Founders Award. His publicist Staci Wolfe and talent agency Creative Artists Agency dropped him. His UK-based non-profit the Kevin Spacey Foundation was closed. Here's a timeline:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rise-fall-kevin-spacey-timeline-sexual-assault-allegations/story?id=63420983

As far as I can see, his only project in the 4 years since the scandal has been a small part in an Italian movie. From what I've seen, it's fair to say that he was cancelled. If you have any links that contradicts this, I'd be interested.

So he got the same treatment as those who got metooed for making a deal with grown ass women for sex in exchange of fame?

After raping minors? Where are the calls to put him in prison? Because I sure as fuck saw lots of that for the metoo movement.

And you don't adress the rest of my post, maybe because you know you can't argue against facts?
Tsk, Geeky, the problem isn't that Spacey was raping minors. Hollyweird has no problem with that.

The problem was that he got caught. So they HAD to jettison him.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on December 09, 2021, 06:28:17 PM
Where then is or was the rage against Spacey? He "came out" as gay and the news shifted to how brave he was.

Spacey came out on the same day as the accusations (Oct 29, 2017). After this, his Gore Vidal biopic with Netflix was cancelled, and he was dropped from House of Cards and all other Netflix projects. His already-shot role in "All the Money in the World" was cut and re-shot with Christopher Plummer in his former role. The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences rescinded his International Emmy Founders Award. His publicist Staci Wolfe and talent agency Creative Artists Agency dropped him. His UK-based non-profit the Kevin Spacey Foundation was closed. Here's a timeline:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/rise-fall-kevin-spacey-timeline-sexual-assault-allegations/story?id=63420983

As far as I can see, his only project in the 4 years since the scandal has been a small part in an Italian movie. From what I've seen, it's fair to say that he was cancelled. If you have any links that contradicts this, I'd be interested.

So he got the same treatment as those who got metooed for making a deal with grown ass women for sex in exchange of fame?

After raping minors? Where are the calls to put him in prison? Because I sure as fuck saw lots of that for the metoo movement.

And you don't adress the rest of my post, maybe because you know you can't argue against facts?
Tsk, Geeky, the problem isn't that Spacey was raping minors. Hollyweird has no problem with that.

The problem was that he got caught. So they HAD to jettison him.

But according to GeekyBugle, they didn't jettison him. GeekyBugle claims that after he came out as gay, they praised him for how brave he was. From what I see, though, he was jettisoned.

As for criminal charges, Spacey did face criminal charges as documented on the timeline I linked. However, after holes appeared in the accuser's story, the charges were dropped. But that's the job of the legal system, not a function of public sentiment. If he was investigated and not put away, then maybe he wasn't guilty. I don't claim either way - but him not being in jail isn't a function of public sentiment being accepting of pedophilia.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 10, 2021, 08:12:06 AM
*sad trombones*

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/12/chicago-jury-reaches-verdict-in-jussie-smollett-for-alleged-fake-hate-crime/

Jussie Smollett gets convicted on five out of six counts of spinning his bullshit hate crime hoax to the CPD. Not sure how he skated on count 6, but oh well.

LOL.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on December 10, 2021, 08:42:24 AM
*sad trombones*

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/12/chicago-jury-reaches-verdict-in-jussie-smollett-for-alleged-fake-hate-crime/

Jussie Smollett gets convicted on five out of six counts of spinning his bullshit hate crime hoax to the CPD. Not sure how he skated on count 6, but oh well.

LOL.

"#justiceforjussie!!!"
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: kreegan on December 10, 2021, 10:20:34 AM
*sad trombones*

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/12/chicago-jury-reaches-verdict-in-jussie-smollett-for-alleged-fake-hate-crime/

Jussie Smollett gets convicted on five out of six counts of spinning his bullshit hate crime hoax to the CPD. Not sure how he skated on count 6, but oh well.

LOL.

Count 6 was technically true, since he was a victim of battery, just it was battery he both requested and paid for.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on December 10, 2021, 10:22:50 AM
*sad trombones*

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/12/chicago-jury-reaches-verdict-in-jussie-smollett-for-alleged-fake-hate-crime/

Jussie Smollett gets convicted on five out of six counts of spinning his bullshit hate crime hoax to the CPD. Not sure how he skated on count 6, but oh well.

LOL.

Count 6 was technically true, since he was a victim of battery, just it was battery he both requested and paid for.
Huh. That... makes sense. And it's rather amusing.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on December 11, 2021, 07:56:59 AM
Rejoice! "Latino civil rights organization drops 'Latinx' from official communication"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latino-civil-rights-organization-drops-latinx-official-communication-rcna8203

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on December 11, 2021, 06:35:03 PM
*sad trombones*

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/12/chicago-jury-reaches-verdict-in-jussie-smollett-for-alleged-fake-hate-crime/

Jussie Smollett gets convicted on five out of six counts of spinning his bullshit hate crime hoax to the CPD. Not sure how he skated on count 6, but oh well.

LOL.

Count 6 was technically true, since he was a victim of battery, just it was battery he both requested and paid for.

I hear there are women who will get dressed up in leather costumes and get paid to do that to a guy.  There isn't the equivalent for gay men?  Or have we all been incorrectly led to believe that that sort of thing is common amongst the gay community?  He didn't have to hire someone from so far away to do that when there are probably plenty of local gen'lmen who could do it just as well...
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Willmark on December 21, 2021, 06:56:38 AM
Figured here was as good a place as any for this: https://youtu.be/ZfrjsQM2WAU

The second to last one was the best IMO. Also crazy accurate this is.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on December 21, 2021, 11:57:33 PM
Also a fairly accurate representation of a woke takeover  ;D

(https://i.redd.it/2gsx6cz4lx681.jpg)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on December 22, 2021, 12:31:31 AM
Also a fairly accurate representation of a woke takeover  ;D

(https://i.redd.it/2gsx6cz4lx681.jpg)

Couldn’t be any more accurate. Real pity to see the hobby caving in in these past 5 years or so. Just hope all companies going woke really go broke when this trend gets old.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wrath of God on December 22, 2021, 01:21:41 PM
Unfortunately I doubt it.
Millenial/zoomer generation of popculture nerds, are very often big consoomers. There's enough left-leaning young adults in big cities of West for woke companies to run well for a long long time.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wrath of God on December 22, 2021, 03:12:35 PM
Quote
Yes, you’ll definitely find leftists who are strongly opposed to any child molestation etc. Also check out several videos by Shoe0nhead (a Bernie supporter) for instance.

I'd say majority of leftists. Even more I see more and more condemnations for instance when 30 y.o. guy dates 20 y.o girl. Because "power imbalance".
And with paedophilia or ephebophilia... well there is no way to avoid very very significant power imbalance.

Quote
But it wasn't that that were out for him for being a pedo

Well yes, yes they were. There were whole scandal in Poland when young left stopped Polanski for having presentation in our most prestige film academy.

Quote
I think it is nice we can still seem to all agree "Pedos bad", but I have a feeling all the shifting will eventually lead to a more direct course to make society more accepting of pedos.

Not in this generation. Boomer and X-leftists sure they were exploring and throwing away bounds of decency and reason.
Modern leftists are safety seeking neurotics. They hate power imbalance, also in private relationship, they are more and more often condemning adult relationships is there is difference of age. Or wealth. Just like TERFs, and tankies, fans of man-boy love were pushed into niche hated by mainstream left.

Quote
I remember people clapping for him in absentia during the Oscars, even when his abuse case was well known. Later I assume he was considered toxic again. Rightly so because that thing was creepy as hell.

Academia is older generation. Old artists in Poland were defending Polanski. It was young SJWs that went for his blood.

Quote
Child marriage is still legal in much of the US TODAY. Only six states have a total ban on all underage marriages (New Jersey, Delaware, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Rhode Island, and New York). This is not a rare thing, thousands of perfectly legal marriages of children to adults happen every year in the US.

6 twelve year-olds were legally married between 2000 and 2015.

I'd not call 16 to 20 marriage as child marriage (but then I'm all for destroying teenager and replacing them with young adults) but holy shit 12 year olds? In freaking USA? That's insane.
In a country where 19 y.o. hooking up with 17 y.o. can be convicted as statutory rapist?

Quote
Where then is or was the rage against Spacey? He "came out" as gay and the news shifted to how brave he was.

Not even close. Like all LGBTQ groups condemned him and cancel his ass for using "coming out" as jail-free card and making gay look bad.

Quote
After raping minors? Where are the calls to put him in prison? Because I sure as fuck saw lots of that for the metoo movement.

Because AFAIK there was no legal accusation of rape. Only of molestation of minor, that well thankfully ended nowhere (though of course this is still harm).
And then there were various civil processes and here we have really funny part - several witnesses and accusers died... Conspiracy Theories are big about it. Probably justly so.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Spinachcat on December 25, 2021, 12:37:00 AM
Roman Polanski's work in cinema will be remembered, studied and revered for generations. The woke mobs will be mocked and forgotten, and hopefully beaten with crowbars.

And Roman will always have two footnotes - the Manson murders of his wife pregnant Sharon Tate and his teen diddling escapade.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wrath of God on December 28, 2021, 08:46:06 PM
Quote
Roman Polanski's work in cinema will be remembered, studied and revered for generations. The woke mobs will be mocked and forgotten, and hopefully beaten with crowbars.

I have no problem with his work being remembered, but when crowbars are concerned, retribution for raping kid is still owned. (And no - having to avoid USA territory is not good enough). So I'll give woke crowd 10 minutes here.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: thornad on January 02, 2022, 11:11:58 PM
Larry Fink (CEO of BlackRock) has been funding the Woke messaging coming out of corporations for years now. A fascinating reveal by Felix Rex:

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 04, 2022, 11:22:54 AM
Larry Fink (CEO of BlackRock) has been funding the Woke messaging coming out of corporations for years now. A fascinating reveal by Felix Rex:



Pretty interesting, but you also have to look at a guy like Larry Fink and wonder; how did someone like this get woke in the first place? He didn’t become a billionaire by being an idealist all the way.  I think people like this basically read the room; they see what’s going on and take on the political leanings of the day (Tolstoy described this very well as someone takes on whatever opinions are in vogue just like they would change their fashion style the same way).
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on January 04, 2022, 12:40:15 PM
Larry Fink (CEO of BlackRock) has been funding the Woke messaging coming out of corporations for years now. A fascinating reveal by Felix Rex:



Pretty interesting, but you also have to look at a guy like Larry Fink and wonder; how did someone like this get woke in the first place? He didn’t become a billionaire by being an idealist all the way.  I think people like this basically read the room; they see what’s going on and take on the political leanings of the day (Tolstoy described this very well as someone takes on whatever opinions are in vogue just like they would change their fashion style the same way).
The phrase you are looking for is 'cui bono', from Latin. 'Who profits?'

That's the sixty-four dollar question.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on January 05, 2022, 03:45:52 PM
I really hate to say this, but how can people say any corner is being turned? I heard this back in 2014 and 2016 and now it's worse.

Hopefully this won't get me into too much trouble here, I know I'm kinda new here but I have been here before I just didn't sign up but why not, but it isn't going to happen. The corner isn't being turned because the Titanic has already hit the iceberg.

I listened to a few of Pundit's videos, and one thing he keeps saying is that the woke make up maybe 8% of the population and the other 92% hate them. Let's say he is actually right- but he'll wish he wasn't, and here's why:


When he says "8%" I assume he means SJWs. Those losers who have blue hair, smell bad, have useless expensive college degrees, can't build or create anything but must infect and ruin it all, are fat and ugly with weird tattoos and piercings and okay you get the idea- losers.

I am not one of them, but Pundit DO NOT ever include me in your 92% because that is an insult.

How is it an insult? Here's how, let's do some math- 92 vs. 8 means 92 outnumbers 8 11 1/2 to 1. So there are 11 1/2 times as many not-woke as woke. Follow? Maybe some of you can see where this is heading.

We already know that the 8% are total losers. But they own DnD, the other DnD-type games, colleges, grade schools- guess what, CRT is now in the lessons- news, programs, movies, comics, they own the White House, they may have stolen the 2020 election, they get people in big trouble or even fired and jailed, push their politics and stop anyone else- I don't have all day so let's cut this short and say the obvious- they keep winning.

Meaning the 92% keep losing. No arguing that.

Now do you get why I don't want to be in that 92%? Just what kind of total losers does the 92% have to be to keep losing to the 8% losers? Absolute losers can't describe it. That 92% has to be beyond absolute losers.


The only way out of THAT obvious problem is if the 8% is supported by someone who aren't losers. But nobody here says anything about this so- absolute losers its got to be. Can anyone tell me how it can't be?

Look at where we are now. How much worse will it be ten years from now? No no corner is being turned, as bad as it is now by 2030 2021, with banned Dr. Suess books and orcs being racist, will be the good old days. I wish I had been born forty years sooner. :'(
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 06, 2022, 08:58:17 AM
It’s not 8% vs 92%. It’s very roughly 8% supported by 42% useful idiots* who think that the 8% “mean well” even when they sound crazy, vs 50%.

*also some clever opportunists
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 06, 2022, 04:11:14 PM
Just what kind of total losers does the 92% have to be to keep losing to the 8% losers?

When one side of a conflict is far more invested in the subject matter than the other, weight of numbers becomes far less relevant than one might expect. Nassim Nicholas Taleb's article "The Most Intolerant Wins (http://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)" is an excellent examination of how this process works.

For myself I have always taken a bleak sort of comfort in a popular saying of Glenn "InstaPundit" Reynolds: "That which can't go on forever, won't."  Wokism has always depended on a fresh supply of stoked outrage, and I see definite signs of burnout in the public appetite for that sentiment.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2022, 12:15:47 AM
Just what kind of total losers does the 92% have to be to keep losing to the 8% losers?

When one side of a conflict is far more invested in the subject matter than the other, weight of numbers becomes far less relevant than one might expect. Nassim Nicholas Taleb's article "The Most Intolerant Wins (http://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)" is an excellent examination of how this process works.

For myself I have always taken a bleak sort of comfort in a popular saying of Glenn "InstaPundit" Reynolds: "That which can't go on forever, won't."  Wokism has always depended on a fresh supply of stoked outrage, and I see definite signs of burnout in the public appetite for that sentiment.

So we may have to rely on the Muslims to save us from the Woke.

But then we will need the CCP to save us from the Muslims.

Things could get messy before the end.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on January 07, 2022, 12:41:19 AM
Just what kind of total losers does the 92% have to be to keep losing to the 8% losers?

When one side of a conflict is far more invested in the subject matter than the other, weight of numbers becomes far less relevant than one might expect. Nassim Nicholas Taleb's article "The Most Intolerant Wins (http://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)" is an excellent examination of how this process works.

For myself I have always taken a bleak sort of comfort in a popular saying of Glenn "InstaPundit" Reynolds: "That which can't go on forever, won't."  Wokism has always depended on a fresh supply of stoked outrage, and I see definite signs of burnout in the public appetite for that sentiment.

So we may have to rely on the Muslims to save us from the Woke.

But then we will need the CCP to save us from the Muslims.

Things could get messy before the end.

Come to think of it, that article also explains why DnD is the default RPG - there is always that one person that does not want to play the exotic new RPG so the whole group defaults to the standard.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 07, 2022, 11:21:35 AM
I really hate to say this, but how can people say any corner is being turned? I heard this back in 2014 and 2016 and now it's worse.

I remember when "woke" wasn't even a topic. Now there's people speaking up about CRT in classrooms. And CRT proponents hastily coming up with all kinds of contradictory arguments about how it's not really a thing, except it is a thing, except it's not being taught in public schools, except it is being taught in public schools, and that's a good thing. For one example. The issues are being identified and defined. That's an important first step.

Remember the "long march through the institutions" took sixtyish years to get us to this point. It is going to get worse before it gets better. If it gets better. And there's going to be setbacks and losses along the way.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: KingCheops on January 07, 2022, 12:47:51 PM
Just what kind of total losers does the 92% have to be to keep losing to the 8% losers?

When one side of a conflict is far more invested in the subject matter than the other, weight of numbers becomes far less relevant than one might expect. Nassim Nicholas Taleb's article "The Most Intolerant Wins (http://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15)" is an excellent examination of how this process works.

For myself I have always taken a bleak sort of comfort in a popular saying of Glenn "InstaPundit" Reynolds: "That which can't go on forever, won't."  Wokism has always depended on a fresh supply of stoked outrage, and I see definite signs of burnout in the public appetite for that sentiment.

So we may have to rely on the Muslims to save us from the Woke.

But then we will need the CCP to save us from the Muslims.

Things could get messy before the end.

Come to think of it, that article also explains why DnD is the default RPG - there is always that one person that does not want to play the exotic new RPG so the whole group defaults to the standard.

That's my experience.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on January 08, 2022, 03:15:50 PM
It’s not 8% vs 92%. It’s very roughly 8% supported by 42% useful idiots* who think that the 8% “mean well” even when they sound crazy, vs 50%.

*also some clever opportunists

I would even go so far as to say that the woke and non-woke activism is only a thing in large urban areas and on college campuses and is only amplified because of social media.  Most people only care once it affects them directly - a Democrat who is a shrimper in Louisiana and a Republican who is a plumber in Nebraska just want to be left alone.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ratman_tf on January 08, 2022, 09:51:49 PM
It’s not 8% vs 92%. It’s very roughly 8% supported by 42% useful idiots* who think that the 8% “mean well” even when they sound crazy, vs 50%.

*also some clever opportunists

I would even go so far as to say that the woke and non-woke activism is only a thing in large urban areas and on college campuses and is only amplified because of social media.  Most people only care once it affects them directly - a Democrat who is a shrimper in Louisiana and a Republican who is a plumber in Nebraska just want to be left alone.

Yeah, but there are clusters of them in positions to affect society. Notably for this message board, the people working at WOTC, for one example.
And from there they affect our media and entertainment.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 11, 2022, 08:04:56 PM
Very interesting article about "woke" Hollywood:

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules

Quote
That’s the essence of what I find disturbing about some of the stuff on the left. Does this have anything to do with making life better for anyone, or is this just a game? Is this just about making you feel superior?
Bingo!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: tenbones on January 13, 2022, 12:12:23 PM
It's like we turned the corner on Islam after the Crusades!

This shit ain't going anywhere, son.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on January 14, 2022, 12:27:31 AM
I have no faith we've turned the corner on anything.

$25 billion -- with a B -- was donated to support virulently racist causes in the wake of the worst riots since Rodney King:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/opinion/progressive-philanthropy-critics.html

These all contributed more than a billion each:
Ford Foundation
Mackenzie Scott
JPMorgan Chase & Co. Contributions Program
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Silicon Valley Community Foundation

Hate and bigotry is alive, well, and rich.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 29, 2022, 07:19:46 PM
Is this a sign?

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/sean-penn-criticizes-men-feminized-1235166106/

Probably not….but I think I can hear the sound of axes grinding  ;D
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: KingCheops on January 29, 2022, 08:53:32 PM
Is this a sign?

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/sean-penn-criticizes-men-feminized-1235166106/

Probably not….but I think I can hear the sound of axes grinding  ;D

Well given that he kidnapped Madonna and abused her he's kind of the epitome of "toxic masculinity" so I wouldn't necessarily take his word on gender.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 30, 2022, 08:42:00 AM

Well given that he kidnapped Madonna and abused her he's kind of the epitome of "toxic masculinity" so I wouldn't necessarily take his word on gender.

You’re taking Madonna on her word though?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on January 30, 2022, 10:19:45 AM
This article (https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/no-the-revolution-isnt-over)* explains quite clearly why there is no end in sight

* https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/no-the-revolution-isnt-over
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on January 30, 2022, 10:29:48 AM
Is this a sign?

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/sean-penn-criticizes-men-feminized-1235166106/

Probably not….but I think I can hear the sound of axes grinding  ;D

Well given that he kidnapped Madonna and abused her he's kind of the epitome of "toxic masculinity" so I wouldn't necessarily take his word on gender.

As controversial as this may sound, how do we know he abused her the way the media reported it?  No charges were filed..

As to what he recently said - he's not wrong. Masculinity and domestic abuse are mutually exclusive
 You can be a wife beater regardless of whether you're a man or a woman or a crossdresser.

More importantly, those of us who aren't already brainwashed understand his statement - boys should be allowed to play with toy guys, toy cars, etc. Girls should be allowed to play with toy dolls and tea sets. Parents shouldn't be dressing male children in dresses or female children in suits and ties...  That is - you can allow your children to explore themselves without forcing them into your own mental illness...  You can allow them independence instead of hovering over them. You can let them solve disagreements amongst themselves without intervening.

To put it another way, growing up in the 1970s was a great time to be a kid, despite inflation, economic downturn, and Vietnam.  You could play with lawn darts that'd puncture your skull and fireworks that'd blow off your fingers, the drinking age was still 18, boys could fight other boys and then moments later become best friends for life.  The he-man women haters club of the little rascals was acceptable amongst boys.  More importantly, kids of both genders would spend as little time at home as possible - hanging out with other kids, exploring the local wildlife or a pick up game of baseball or hockey, riding bikes, and only coming home when it got dark out. 

The trend towards femininity amongst boys coincides with the trend towards staring at screens all day.  I'm thankful that both of my kids are heavily involved in organized sports because it forces them to not spend all their time starting at screens.  The boy has football (primary), wrestling (cardio and flexibility), and lacrosse (agility) seasons with time at the gym interspersed and the girl has volleyball and year-round lacrosse (rec league, club team and winter indoor league) and once she's old enough, she'll be at the gym.  They're both solidly appropriate for their gender - not because my wife and I forced them - specifically because we didn't tell them to act more lady-like or act less aggressive, etc.  We didn't encourage them to wear non-gender-appropriate clothing.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 31, 2022, 10:54:10 AM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: HappyDaze on January 31, 2022, 11:18:47 AM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism
That definition is from mid-2020. It's not exactly new.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Fheredin on January 31, 2022, 12:33:54 PM
I think that Wokeness will break quite abruptly. Metaphorically, speaking, it's a fever of absurdist ideas, driven by people who intentionally play offense as much as possible because they are too afraid of each other to be creative, and so cannot constructively build; only destroy.

When things start going to pot--as they will when COVID's economic aftershocks catch up with us--all that will really matter is the ability to build. There will be very few things left to tear down. Economics trumps ideology every time.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on January 31, 2022, 01:41:24 PM
I think that Wokeness will break quite abruptly. Metaphorically, speaking, it's a fever of absurdist ideas, driven by people who intentionally play offense as much as possible because they are too afraid of each other to be creative, and so cannot constructively build; only destroy.

When things start going to pot--as they will when COVID's economic aftershocks catch up with us--all that will really matter is the ability to build. There will be very few things left to tear down. Economics trumps ideology every time.

The problem is that as long as there are people or organizations willing to entertain their mental illness and take them seriously, there will continue to be people who continue to exploit the wokeness grift.  It's not enough to ignore their false claims of racism or sexism or transphobia or homophobia - you need to publicly embarrass them.  Whether you like him or not, Dave Portnoy's response to the claims of abuse by former sex partners being promoted by Business Insider was to sue BI *and* publicly post the texts of his accusers that clearly illustrated that they not only liked and wanted rough sex, they came back for second helpings of it.  That direct action response to false claims is exactly what should be done in response to every woke claim.  Never issue a groveling apology for something that someone else is offended by and always go on the offensive.  Actual wrong-doing would result in criminal charges, not blackmail/extortion attempts.  Because that's what most of these woke grievances are - extortion.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Fheredin on January 31, 2022, 04:08:01 PM
I think that Wokeness will break quite abruptly. Metaphorically, speaking, it's a fever of absurdist ideas, driven by people who intentionally play offense as much as possible because they are too afraid of each other to be creative, and so cannot constructively build; only destroy.

When things start going to pot--as they will when COVID's economic aftershocks catch up with us--all that will really matter is the ability to build. There will be very few things left to tear down. Economics trumps ideology every time.

The problem is that as long as there are people or organizations willing to entertain their mental illness and take them seriously, there will continue to be people who continue to exploit the wokeness grift.  It's not enough to ignore their false claims of racism or sexism or transphobia or homophobia - you need to publicly embarrass them.  Whether you like him or not, Dave Portnoy's response to the claims of abuse by former sex partners being promoted by Business Insider was to sue BI *and* publicly post the texts of his accusers that clearly illustrated that they not only liked and wanted rough sex, they came back for second helpings of it.  That direct action response to false claims is exactly what should be done in response to every woke claim.  Never issue a groveling apology for something that someone else is offended by and always go on the offensive.  Actual wrong-doing would result in criminal charges, not blackmail/extortion attempts.  Because that's what most of these woke grievances are - extortion.

I agree that the woke grievances are fundamentally extortion, but the thing is that companies can only pay extortionists as long as they have cash to pay. One of the key policy decisions the Federal Reserve will need to make soon is if it raises interest rates or lets inflation burn hot. Raising interest rates makes loans more expensive, and letting inflation run hot makes labor and labor products more expensive. In both cases, it's quite likely companies will run out of cash.

No cash? No paid off grifters. I expect most businesses when faced with bankruptcy will disregard Woke backlashes in an attempt to remain solvent, but even if I'm wrong, the companies which do try to juggle appeasement policies with actual productivity are likely to go under.

Of course, no one knows what the timeline on this looks like. I would have thought the supply chain would be where we are now a full year ago. All I can tell you is that with the US Debt to GDP at 130%, this decision cannot be avoided forever.



Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on January 31, 2022, 06:30:35 PM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

On the other hand, "woke" is and has always been stupid when taken out of the context of Black culture. It's a phrase coined by black folks in the South to talk about other folks (usually white but occasionally black or other race) and how well they understand what black folks go through on a daily basis. If anyone who passes the paper bag test is talking about wokeness in any form, I feel completely free to ignore them as uninformed, whether they are on the left or the right side of the spectrum.

American racism is vastly exaggerated. My wife is obviously “of color”we have traveled together throughout much of the country and we can’t tell the difference. I’d say that even the past troubles are being exaggerated even though some truly horrifying things did happen. It’s turned into a never-ending repetition of the same old stories (but always tweaked just a little, to make it seem even worse and even more one-sided than it actually was, like Tulsa), and there’s no end in sight. Such bad historical events should of course be remembered, but not turned into some sort of religious victimhood ritual. You should check out some of John McWhorter’s interviews and writings.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on January 31, 2022, 11:10:20 PM
Economics trumps ideology every time.

Ultimately, yes; the Gods of the Copybook Headings always return, as Kipling notes.

The problem is forestalling the "terror and slaughter" with which they do so if ignored too long.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on January 31, 2022, 11:14:24 PM
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

On the other hand, "woke" is and has always been stupid when taken out of the context of Black culture. It's a phrase coined by black folks in the South to talk about other folks (usually white but occasionally black or other race) and how well they understand what black folks go through on a daily basis. If anyone who passes the paper bag test is talking about wokeness in any form, I feel completely free to ignore them as uninformed, whether they are on the left or the right side of the spectrum.

American racism is vastly exaggerated. My wife is obviously “of color”we have traveled together throughout much of the country and we can’t tell the difference. I’d say that even the past troubles are being exaggerated even though some truly horrifying things did happen. It’s turned into a never-ending repetition of the same old stories (but always tweaked just a little, to make it seem even worse and even more one-sided than it actually was, like Tulsa), and there’s no end in sight. Such bad historical events should of course be remembered, but not turned into some sort of religious victimhood ritual. You should check out some of John McWhorter’s interviews and writings.

McWhorter isn't wrong. I think the key takeaway is that the underlying basis for accusations of racism is the anti-intellectualism he refers to.  It doesn't have to be academia-based. There is a disdain amongst a large portion of the black community for any type of education (whether it means going to college on anything other than an athletic scholarship or learning a blue-collar trade) - and when that lack of education leads to lack of opportunity, it's claimed to be because racism instead of the acknowledgement that it has been self-imposed.  Even barring a decent formal education, a willingness to learn and to work hard is also held in disdain.  So - someone lacks the skills and lack the work ethic.  Given all of the activism of the race hustlers, one would think that this issue would have been resolved, save for the fact that achieving their claimed goals would result in their putting themselves out of a job. Translate that to the gay/trans/progressive/climate change/other cause of the week activists - grifting pays...
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 08:24:31 AM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 03:24:05 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 04:11:22 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

  What line is that?  That the ADL has taken positions on many subjects that look like the SJWs writing critical race theory are now writing many of their positions on topics?  That change of definition to racism pretty much points out that is the direction the organization is headed towards.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 04:14:20 PM
Because I've seen over and over again how even mild criticism of certain groups gets one banned faster than than a non-woke from rpg.net, that's why. By that one's OWN PEOPLE! Gaaah, maybe I'll tell you about my waking up moment during a hangover one of these days.

Oh, and by the way oh 92%- I've heard about that "only whites can be racist" garbage since the mid-1990s!!!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 04:19:11 PM
  Well, I am not criticizing any group here, only a specific organization.  And much like SPLC, BLM, the ADL these days seems to be pretty much hijacked by people with an extreme left agenda on many positions.  This is critical from my perspective, as I think extreme left positions are generally harmful, but I also do not think any of those organizations really represent any group anywhere any more.  I think they are there to generate revenue for the people working in them.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 01, 2022, 04:19:37 PM
Because I've seen over and over again how even mild criticism of certain groups gets one banned faster than than a non-woke from rpg.net, that's why. By that one's OWN PEOPLE! Gaaah, maybe I'll tell you about my waking up moment during a hangover one of these days.
We're not on TBP.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 04:21:05 PM
And what's TBP?

Look, don't say I didn't warn you.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 04:22:35 PM
  Well, I am not criticizing any group here, only a specific organization.  And much like SPLC, BLM, the ADL these days seems to be pretty much hijacked by people with an extreme left agenda on many positions.  This is critical from my perspective, as I think extreme left positions are generally harmful, but I also do not think any of those organizations really represent any group anywhere any more.  I think they are there to generate revenue for the people working in them.


All right, do you hear those groups speaking out against the extremists?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 04:26:04 PM
  Well, I am not criticizing any group here, only a specific organization.  And much like SPLC, BLM, the ADL these days seems to be pretty much hijacked by people with an extreme left agenda on many positions.  This is critical from my perspective, as I think extreme left positions are generally harmful, but I also do not think any of those organizations really represent any group anywhere any more.  I think they are there to generate revenue for the people working in them.


All right, do you hear those groups speaking out against the extremists?
   
   The SPLC, BLM or the ADL?  What extremists are you asking me about?  They seem pretty frothy about the literal legions of skin heads, nazis, and white supremacists that are hiding in every other household in the USA, but they sure are quiet about any nutjobs from the left. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 01, 2022, 04:41:34 PM
Any of them. Look, just flipping through the cursed channels on free tv all I see are ads and programs about evil whites and racism.

So why don't the people those groups- ALL OF THEM- are supposed to speak for ever speak up loud and clear about them being extremists?

I'll warn you again, youre all stomping through a ban minefield here.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on February 01, 2022, 04:55:53 PM
I'll warn you again, youre all stomping through a ban minefield here.

Is it Tuesday again?

That seemed to come around quickly.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 01, 2022, 05:00:13 PM
  I do not watch any TV, so I will take your word for it.  I still do not quite get where the ban minefield is.  I guess I am just missing the hidden message.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on February 01, 2022, 08:23:13 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

The ADL has went the way of the ACLU some time ago. 
ADL Hires Jewish Jew-Hater as Director for Jewish Outreach (https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/columns/daniel-greenfield/adl-hires-jewish-jew-hater-as-director-for-jewish-outreach/2022/02/01/)

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 01, 2022, 08:25:00 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

Few things will get you banned here:

Posting politics unrelated to gamming anywhere else but this part of the forum.

Spouting ACTUAL white supremacist spiels

Spouting ACTUAL anti-semitism

From what I've seen criticizing anything/anyone is valid and won't even earn you a warning.

This place is owned by an actual libertarian/conservative

The mods either share his political views or at least his love for free speech.

Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale.

And you'll find a few non-white people here that do agree that seems to be the case. I for example.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on February 01, 2022, 08:25:17 PM
I'll warn you again, youre all stomping through a ban minefield here.
So when were you banned from therpgsite?

 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 01, 2022, 08:26:22 PM
  I do not watch any TV, so I will take your word for it.  I still do not quite get where the ban minefield is.  I guess I am just missing the hidden message.

He thinks this site is like TBP or any other leftist run site. He's wrong.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 01, 2022, 08:28:57 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

The ADL has went the way of the ACLU some time ago. 
ADL Hires Jewish Jew-Hater as Director for Jewish Outreach (https://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/columns/daniel-greenfield/adl-hires-jewish-jew-hater-as-director-for-jewish-outreach/2022/02/01/)

So we can add the Jews to those that the ADL hates...

Fuck me, if these racists can infiltrate the ADL what can't they infiltrate?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: RandyB on February 01, 2022, 10:01:59 PM
  I do not watch any TV, so I will take your word for it.  I still do not quite get where the ban minefield is.  I guess I am just missing the hidden message.

He thinks this site is like TBP or any other leftist run site. He's wrong.

His concern is duly noted. After all, he created a new account here just to express his concern.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on February 01, 2022, 10:11:00 PM
His concern is duly noted. After all, he created a new account here just to express his concern.

And to say "92%" an awful lot.  I don't know what that's alluding to but I suspect it's not benign.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on February 01, 2022, 10:25:28 PM
His concern is duly noted. After all, he created a new account here just to express his concern.

And to say "92%" an awful lot.  I don't know what that's alluding to but I suspect it's not benign.

92% is not even in the top 5% of content creators.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on February 02, 2022, 03:48:40 PM
Any of them. Look, just flipping through the cursed channels on free tv all I see are ads and programs about evil whites and racism.

So why don't the people those groups- ALL OF THEM- are supposed to speak for ever speak up loud and clear about them being extremists?

I'll warn you again, youre all stomping through a ban minefield here.

Welcome newbie 😀
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 02, 2022, 04:18:58 PM
Considering the sheer amount of ideological capture, I don’t think the woke will be going away any time soon no matter how much public attitude turns against them.

I don’t work in a creative field, but I do write on my spare time. I’m somewhat paranoid. In order to future proof my work against wokies, I deliberately don’t write white characters in order to protect my characters from being racebent or genderbent or queered, because it’s not considered kosher to do that to characters who aren’t white.

Even then I’m worried it’s not enough.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on February 02, 2022, 04:38:56 PM
Considering the sheer amount of ideological capture, I don’t think the woke will be going away any time soon no matter how much public attitude turns against them.
We've turned the corner! They only control the entire education establishment, the deep state bureaucracy, the Washington establishment, the military, big tech, the Fortune 500, and the last two generations of kids! They're on the ropes!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on February 02, 2022, 05:37:54 PM
Considering the sheer amount of ideological capture, I don’t think the woke will be going away any time soon no matter how much public attitude turns against them.
We've turned the corner! They only control the entire education establishment, the deep state bureaucracy, the Washington establishment, the military, big tech, the Fortune 500, and the last two generations of kids! They're on the ropes!

Greetings!

Yeah, that's right, Pat. Our culture is pretty much fucked.

I've said this for awhile now. It would take far too many people, in every area of society, to be pushing back and counter-attacking--ferociously--for the next 20 years straight. THEN our culture might have a chance at redemption. You can't undo 50 years of fucking Communist/Feminist propaganda and take-over in a few years, or with just a few people.

I don't see our society having that many people resisting, ferociously, for as many years as it would take to save our country. It's too late. The cancer, the debauchery, the mindless stupidity, the love of being ass-fucked slaves to a globalist tyranny, of gulping the shit down, is just too deep.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 02, 2022, 06:23:01 PM
  Sort of made me LOL to see Whoopi Goldberg make the point for me on this whole thing with the holocaust and how the ADL would view the perspective she presented (after their change of the definition of racism).
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on February 02, 2022, 10:27:10 PM
  Sort of made me LOL to see Whoopi Goldberg make the point for me on this whole thing with the holocaust and how the ADL would view the perspective she presented (after their change of the definition of racism).

I must admit that I never had Whoopi running defense for Nazis on my 2022 bingo card.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on February 03, 2022, 09:57:07 AM
  Sort of made me LOL to see Whoopi Goldberg make the point for me on this whole thing with the holocaust and how the ADL would view the perspective she presented (after their change of the definition of racism).

The ADL changed their definition back to a more sensible one again due to that whole situation. Their behavior does make them look pretty pathetic on the whole.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 03, 2022, 11:19:31 AM
  Sort of made me LOL to see Whoopi Goldberg make the point for me on this whole thing with the holocaust and how the ADL would view the perspective she presented (after their change of the definition of racism).

The ADL changed their definition back to a more sensible one again due to that whole situation. Their behavior does make them look pretty pathetic on the whole.

  LMAO on that one, I guess they got a chance to get body checked in real time, and hilarious they changed that one up...odd they never had the thought that you did, that folks "not in the know" might see them as white people as well.  They could send Whoopi a consultant payment for helping them out.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 03, 2022, 11:20:47 AM
  Also IMO shady as fuck they would change that definition after Whoopi made her asinine comments, since technically she could have used their own definition to make an argument for her statement.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on February 03, 2022, 07:38:02 PM
  Sort of made me LOL to see Whoopi Goldberg make the point for me on this whole thing with the holocaust and how the ADL would view the perspective she presented (after their change of the definition of racism).

I must admit that I never had Whoopi running defense for Nazis on my 2022 bingo card.

It gets worse:
NEW YORK, NY—Whoopi Goldberg is in hot water once again after claiming that Emperor Palpatine's controversial "Order 66", which instructed his Clone troopers to murder all the Jedi in the galaxy, "wasn't about the Jedi." (https://babylonbee.com/news/whoopi-goldberg-says-order-66-wasnt-about-the-jedi)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 16, 2022, 03:24:33 PM
  I do not watch any TV, so I will take your word for it.  I still do not quite get where the ban minefield is.  I guess I am just missing the hidden message.

He thinks this site is like TBP or any other leftist run site. He's wrong.

His concern is duly noted. After all, he created a new account here just to express his concern.


What the hell are you on about?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 16, 2022, 03:32:34 PM
  Well, I am not criticizing any group here, only a specific organization.  And much like SPLC, BLM, the ADL these days seems to be pretty much hijacked by people with an extreme left agenda on many positions.  This is critical from my perspective, as I think extreme left positions are generally harmful, but I also do not think any of those organizations really represent any group anywhere any more.  I think they are there to generate revenue for the people working in them.


I'll try to keep this as simple as possible for anyone who still doesn't get it yet. What the hell is WRONG with the 92%!?
One way leftism works is by connecting "extremists" with the whole group. It always works because the whole group they are supposed to be for never objects and this works both ways- BLM and ADL are proof because nobody in those whole groups is saying anything against them and when someone bashes whites saying all whites are guilty of whatever whites are too scared to say anything about it even if it happened long ago and just a few did it.
You say anything bad about man-hating feminist banshees they say you hate all women and want them just barefoot and pregnant. It's all 200 proof blarney but it works.
So if you say anything bad about groups like the ADL or SPLC which people here have done they'll say you're anti semites and that's what you'll be period, and just in case you haven't noticed those groups- as in the ADL and SPLC in case anyone doesn't know what I mean- are VERY powerful with loads of money and have a habit of going after anyone dumb enough to say anything bad about them- and it's getting worse. It's happened before at the very least they'll surely put this place on a enemies list.
So saying "butbutbut but we're just talking about those extremists not the whole group" WON'T MATTER HERE. All someone has to do is tell them what was said here and this site might soon be hit by a nuclear powered shillelagh. Seeing how scared the 92% is all the time you've been warned you're stepping over the safe tough talk line the 8% draws for you.




Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 16, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

Few things will get you banned here:

Posting politics unrelated to gamming anywhere else but this part of the forum.

Spouting ACTUAL white supremacist spiels

Spouting ACTUAL anti-semitism

From what I've seen criticizing anything/anyone is valid and won't even earn you a warning.

This place is owned by an actual libertarian/conservative

The mods either share his political views or at least his love for free speech.

Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale.

And you'll find a few non-white people here that do agree that seems to be the case. I for example.



And here 92% is why you keep losing to the 8% and why we're going to woke hell that'll make the hills of damnation look like Hawaii.

This line is about what? certain black and jewish groups bashing whites and calling for MASS MURDER of whites.

So what does this geekybugle guy go on about? No white supremist or anti jewish stuff.

Not "no supremist yammer of any kind", just white supremist and anti-jewish stuff in a line about jewish and black groups bashing whites!

"Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale."

Only as long as it's safe tough talk.

I swear, the 92% will cringe and say it's sorry when theyre being led to the gulag. Here's a question- if anyone joined here and said he was a member of those groups would he be banned for being part of hate groups? Yea, and I'll find a pot of gold left on my doorstep by friendly leprechauns after riding a rainbow to Ireland.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 16, 2022, 04:29:22 PM
  I would like to respond to something, but I guess I am missing the forest for the trees.  How about break down this point of view/idea to one simple point. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: RPGPundit on February 16, 2022, 09:24:27 PM
The ADL actually really hates Jews.

https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/ (https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 16, 2022, 09:31:15 PM
The ADL actually really hates Jews.

https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/ (https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/)

  I do not think the ADL hates Jews.  I do think they may have screwed the pooch letting some of the nutty leftists in the door forgetting they only exist to tear down and reform institutions in their own image.  And the ADL is very left on policies in the USA, like immigration. But suddenly extremely right wing from the leftist lens regarding immigration for Israel. That can not be tolerated by the woke.   So I think it is early to say the ADL hates Jews...but if they keep recruiting people like that lady, they will make the full turn in no time.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on February 17, 2022, 09:31:09 AM
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible for anyone who still doesn't get it yet. What the hell is WRONG with the 92%!?
You are way off on your figures.  It's actually 87.35%.  And 57.48% of the 87.35% will not put up with the bullshit of the 12.65%. 
That makes 50.20% who are mad as hell and are not going to take it any more. 
Which way way higher than the 3% some far right groups claim it took to win the American Revolutionary war.




Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on February 17, 2022, 12:50:38 PM
The ADL actually really hates Jews.

https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/ (https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/)

  I do not think the ADL hates Jews.  I do think they may have screwed the pooch letting some of the nutty leftists in the door forgetting they only exist to tear down and reform institutions in their own image.  And the ADL is very left on policies in the USA, like immigration. But suddenly extremely right wing from the leftist lens regarding immigration for Israel. That can not be tolerated by the woke.   So I think it is early to say the ADL hates Jews...but if they keep recruiting people like that lady, they will make the full turn in no time.

I agree that hate is a strong word, but why would a Jewish organization use the definition of racism as they did recently? (i.e. racism is only by white people agains POC. The Whoopi Goldberg controversy apparently made them change it)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 01:26:53 PM
The ADL actually really hates Jews.

https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/ (https://www.jns.org/opinion/the-adls-new-jewish-outreach-director-hates-jews/)

  I do not think the ADL hates Jews.  I do think they may have screwed the pooch letting some of the nutty leftists in the door forgetting they only exist to tear down and reform institutions in their own image.  And the ADL is very left on policies in the USA, like immigration. But suddenly extremely right wing from the leftist lens regarding immigration for Israel. That can not be tolerated by the woke.   So I think it is early to say the ADL hates Jews...but if they keep recruiting people like that lady, they will make the full turn in no time.

I agree that hate is a strong word, but why would a Jewish organization use the definition of racism as they did recently? (i.e. racism is only by white people agains POC. The Whoopi Goldberg controversy apparently made them change it)

  Because traditionally Jews do not classify themselves as white, and assumed the masses at large would know that.  Whoopi made it crystal clear that large swaths of people do not understand that immigration to Israel involves a genetic test, not a theological quiz.    I think in 2020 it was also getting them woke traction (which they need, since they also have to battle the woke over Israel immigration policy and the woke view of some policies in Israel) as BLM was peacefully protesting and the assumption was made that Jews were not white.  Honestly I think it was the old case of "you know what happens when you assume, you make and ass of u and me".   He probably would not have changed it either, but he got swamped by some right leaning people over the definition on the website, and that likely shined more attention on that horrible definition than he wanted. 

   It could also have been something a person did more or less independently and he had no idea what the definition (Greenblatt) on the organization's website was.  Those sorts of things are going to happen when you want to draw from the far left end of recruits to work with the organization.  Sort of like Frankenstein's monster coming back so we can reap what we sow.  I really do not know.  I think this answer actually makes the people in charge of the ADL look worse (because they have no intention of having Jews considered part of a white majority) if they did not know that definition was changed.   I think they made some assumptions about people's perceptions, and maybe some really big assumptions regarding how different ethnicities define "white". 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 01:27:37 PM
  But in a world where Black men knocking the shit out of or stabbing small asian women is white supremacy, who the hell knows?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on February 17, 2022, 04:29:46 PM
Larry Correia on Approaching Peak Woke

https://monsterhunternation.com/2022/02/16/approaching-peak-woke/

Quote from: Larry Correia
APPROACHING PEAK WOKE


I truly believe we are at or nearing Peak Woke.

The San Fransisco school board was just overwhelmingly voted to be recalled. Pundits are already blaming it on “secret conservatives”. In San Fransisco. The bluest big city in America.

Across the nation regular normal people are done with Woke shit. They are done with Covid control freaks. They are done with incompetent petty tyranny. They are done with self proclaimed experts being constantly wrong but still handing down arbitrary commands.

That combo is going to make the upcoming mid terms the biggest blood bath election of the last hundred years.

Purple is gonna flip red. Blue is turning purple. 30 congressional dems have retired because they see more accurate polling than we do. Seats that are normally D+13 aren’t safe.

The polls about how people identify have flipped in a manner that the establishment can’t even sorta understand yet. Some do. Those are the proverbial rats fleeing the sinking ship.

Polls always oversample democrats, but even the ones that show D+7 have them being trounced. It won’t be D+7. It’s going to be R+ however many people said enough.

The progressive left has driven off many of the people who they always assumed would make up their “permanent demographic majority”.

Democrats have infuriated independents.

Nobody expected New Jersey to be in play.

Nobody expected Virginia to flip and as the polls swung the left could do nothing but panic and do dumber and dumber stunts. I expect to see lots of tiki torches and fake hate crimes in the coming months.

Their figure head, Joe Biden, is despised by his enemies and pitied by his allies. He inspires no one. They have no wins. Nothing to run on. Nothing to point to.

If they were smart they would do an emergency course correction and abandon the control freaks, but they can’t. The liberals abdicated. The moderates fled. The woke progs are steering the ship, and they are addicted to outrage. They only have one play in their playbook, which is scream about how everyone else is some kinda hatemonger.

Regular people just want their money to be worth something and their stores to not be empty and their schools to not be indoctrination centers.
While the woke running the left can only offer them increasingly batshit insane identity politics instead.
A reckoning is coming. The left is about to reap the whirlwind of their hubris.

Of course the GOP will flop and squish and squander this, unless these same angry voters won’t allow them to.

The invertebrates like Mitt Romney will see the democrats take this generational loss and will want to “reach across the aisle” to help them back to their feet. They’ll be “bipartisan”. No. They lost because they deserved to lose because their ideas are evil and the middle has realized the left is actively destroying America. Crush them. Drive them from any position of leadership.

This loss needs to hurt. It needs to be a wake up call to the democrats who aren’t insane leftists, however many of those may remain. The Woke must be cast down. Their philosophy is a cancer in the bones of our country.

The monied “educated” elite of the left have loved the Woke because they have been a useful club to beat their ideological enemies with. But once the Woke become a liability, they will be dismissed and forgotten. Just like the hippies were a great big deal until suddenly, they weren’t. And they became a fringe joke.

That’s a big if though, because I’m not sure how much the Venn diagrams of Woke and Elite overlap. So if democrats can’t jettison Wokeness, then regular people will make sure they lose so damned bad they don’t have a choice.

That’s what’s coming.

Pundits will blame it on Covid fatigue or racism or sexism or Russians or something else. But it’s not. It’s all tied together. It’s a backlash against one giant overwhelming philosophy combining the federal leviathan, woke megacorps, and a mob of useful idiots into a bizarre pseudo religion. It is completely disconnected from reality, and rules with a very stupid fist. And regular people aren’t ever allowed to question it or stand in its way.

All the stuff that’s infuriating regular Americans is a result of that unholy abomination. Their jobs aren’t safe. Their kids aren’t safe. Nothing makes any sense anymore. They look around and discover they are living in clown world. When they express concern they are told to shut up, bigot, put your three masks back on and get back to serving me. How dare you question your moral and intellectual betters?

The political reckoning is coming soon. The cultural reckoning will take longer, but it’s already happening. The left has owned every major cultural institution for a long time, the media, Hollywood, academia, publishing, and look how great all of those are doing. It is like minded, insufferable finger shaking scolds, all the way down.

But once a preference cascade begins, it won’t stop. Voting is just the big obvious one, but as soon as enough shade holders in those various institutions decide they are tired of going broke to support a failing philosophy they’ll dump it. And if they don’t, competitors will crush them.

Because people are sick of this shit.

I’m actually really optimistic. I’ve been talking about this nefarious culture war for a long time, and I’m seeing an ever increasing number of regular folks catching on and realizing they’ve been getting scammed. I’m seeing more people who thought they were liberal realizing they got conned. I’m seeing more moderates realizing that moral equivalence is bullshit, because both sides suck, but at least one isn’t actively trying to destroy our civilization.

On that last note, if anybody can screw this opportunity up, it’s the republicans. Many of them are corrupt, lazy, cowards. But I’m even seeing a shift there, where more of them are saying enough of this fake civility, where the left can do whatever malicious thing it wants and we have to smile and take it. About damned time.

Expect the left to become increasingly desperate as their total control of every institution is threatened. Just look toward our neighbors to the north to see how petulant they can get when their power is endangered. They burn cities. Awesome. You get uppity, martial law.

Sure. They’ll lie. They’ll “fact checkers”. The media companies that carry their water are getting crushed by Indy media, even with the big tech companies actively trying to silence them. CNN is getting its ass beat by Joe Rogan. Elon Musk accomplishes more with one cryptic tweet then a thousand New York Times OpEds. The strangle hold on media is over because the left shot their wad. They lied too much and now nobody believes them. Polls show more Americans trust gas station sushi than the media.

They will lie, cheat, and steal. That’s just human nature. But don’t go all doomer black pill that the left will automatically win. They want you to think that’s inevitable. And if you are worried about cheating, Virginia showed us the way. Watchers everywhere and 500 lawyers waiting at a hotline perched like fucking falcons to swoop down the instant anything is weird. Get your shit together, GOP, and this won’t be an issue.

In the meantime just keep talking. Keep telling the truth. Keep standing for what you believe in. And if you aren’t doing that, start. You aren’t alone. There are millions who are just as annoyed by this crap as you are.


Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 05:02:12 PM
  I get the feeling Larry has about alls he can stands, and cant stands no more. 

   I think he might be right.  On all counts.  I think the lefties took that step too far (and to be honest I am a little shocked boys in the girls locker room was not it) with the CRT and mass obfuscation at trying to back track. Antiracism, is what I see it called openly (and I know that it is not CRT, but it is CRT being put to use on the school level) is anything but, and it seems at least you can still work parents up by promoting what amounts to open disdain for their kids based on race.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 07:12:58 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on February 17, 2022, 08:06:13 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.

Got a link?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 09:34:59 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.

Got a link?

  https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/suvvl5/everyone_id_like_to_introduce_jeren_miles_repost/

  That is the video the people who busted him posted on reddit.  I think the quartering also covers this.  I think it is breaking/today's news. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on February 17, 2022, 09:45:49 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.

Got a link?

  https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/suvvl5/everyone_id_like_to_introduce_jeren_miles_repost/

  That is the video the people who busted him posted on reddit.  I think the quartering also covers this.  I think it is breaking/today's news.

Video has already been pulled.

Link to where this all started apparently. Have not watched entire video, but I am assuming that it is NSFW.

https://netpredators.com/jeren-miles/

EDIT: And there is a lot of personal information about this guy posted to the page I linked. Admins and moderators please take a look, if the link should be removed then please do so.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 09:48:06 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.

Got a link?

  https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/suvvl5/everyone_id_like_to_introduce_jeren_miles_repost/

  That is the video the people who busted him posted on reddit.  I think the quartering also covers this.  I think it is breaking/today's news.

Video has already been pulled.

Link to where this all started apparently. Have not watched entire video, but I am assuming that it is NSFW.

https://netpredators.com/jeren-miles/

  I only listened to it opened on another window.  He has the typical Chris Hanson lines of excuses, but I did not hear anything particularly vulgar, and he was sitting in a chair the whole time.  They threatened him with calling police, so he sat and answered their questions.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Zelen on February 17, 2022, 10:07:52 PM
The only corner we're turning is from subterfuge to open warfare of hostile governments on their people.
The woke are useful idiots and will cheer it on.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 17, 2022, 10:18:17 PM
The only corner we're turning is from subterfuge to open warfare of hostile governments on their people.
The woke are useful idiots and will cheer it on.

  I am OK with that.  It has been coming for a long, long time.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on February 18, 2022, 03:36:49 PM
  https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/suvvl5/everyone_id_like_to_introduce_jeren_miles_repost/

  That is the video the people who busted him posted on reddit.  I think the quartering also covers this.  I think it is breaking/today's news.

Here's an update I see from TechCrunch.

Quote
Meta, the parent company of Facebook, has confirmed to TechCrunch that Jeren A. Miles, who had been a manager of global community development, is no longer employed by the company after a video went viral on YouTube, which was then reposted on Reddit and other sites, featuring him in a sting operation conducted by amateurs with the intent of catching paedophiles.

The two-hour video, posted by an amateur group called PCI Predator Catchers Indianapolis on its YouTube page, does not depict Miles caught in any sex act, nor admitting to any specific sex act, nor admitting to intending to carry out any sex act. And it is not clear what the legal ramifications of this will be, if any.

But it does feature two people questioning Miles, who in the course of the interrogation admits to having graphic and inappropriate communications with a 13-year-old boy. It’s a damning enough exchange that Miles has subsequently deleted his social profiles on sites like Facebook and Twitter, and — whether he was fired or resigned voluntarily — Miles has left his role at Facebook over the matter.

”The seriousness of these allegations cannot be overstated. The individual is no longer employed with the company. We are actively investigating this situation and cannot provide further comment at this time,” said a statement from a Meta spokesperson provided to us by Drew Pusateri.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/02/18/meta-axes-head-of-global-community-development-after-he-appears-on-video-in-underage-sex-sting/
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on February 18, 2022, 08:02:24 PM
Greetings!

Ahh yes. Yet *another* fucking SJW pedophile.

I'm not surprised at all. SJW's like fucking kids.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 19, 2022, 05:41:05 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

Few things will get you banned here:

Posting politics unrelated to gamming anywhere else but this part of the forum.

Spouting ACTUAL white supremacist spiels

Spouting ACTUAL anti-semitism

From what I've seen criticizing anything/anyone is valid and won't even earn you a warning.

This place is owned by an actual libertarian/conservative

The mods either share his political views or at least his love for free speech.

Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale.

And you'll find a few non-white people here that do agree that seems to be the case. I for example.



And here 92% is why you keep losing to the 8% and why we're going to woke hell that'll make the hills of damnation look like Hawaii.

This line is about what? certain black and jewish groups bashing whites and calling for MASS MURDER of whites.

So what does this geekybugle guy go on about? No white supremist or anti jewish stuff.

Not "no supremist yammer of any kind", just white supremist and anti-jewish stuff in a line about jewish and black groups bashing whites!

"Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale."

Only as long as it's safe tough talk.

I swear, the 92% will cringe and say it's sorry when theyre being led to the gulag. Here's a question- if anyone joined here and said he was a member of those groups would he be banned for being part of hate groups? Yea, and I'll find a pot of gold left on my doorstep by friendly leprechauns after riding a rainbow to Ireland.

Care to clarify WHO exactly is going to ban me from here for something like criticizing the ADL, ACLU, Burn Loot Murder, etc?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: RandyB on February 19, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

Few things will get you banned here:

Posting politics unrelated to gamming anywhere else but this part of the forum.

Spouting ACTUAL white supremacist spiels

Spouting ACTUAL anti-semitism

From what I've seen criticizing anything/anyone is valid and won't even earn you a warning.

This place is owned by an actual libertarian/conservative

The mods either share his political views or at least his love for free speech.

Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale.

And you'll find a few non-white people here that do agree that seems to be the case. I for example.



And here 92% is why you keep losing to the 8% and why we're going to woke hell that'll make the hills of damnation look like Hawaii.

This line is about what? certain black and jewish groups bashing whites and calling for MASS MURDER of whites.

So what does this geekybugle guy go on about? No white supremist or anti jewish stuff.

Not "no supremist yammer of any kind", just white supremist and anti-jewish stuff in a line about jewish and black groups bashing whites!

"Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale."

Only as long as it's safe tough talk.

I swear, the 92% will cringe and say it's sorry when theyre being led to the gulag. Here's a question- if anyone joined here and said he was a member of those groups would he be banned for being part of hate groups? Yea, and I'll find a pot of gold left on my doorstep by friendly leprechauns after riding a rainbow to Ireland.

Care to clarify WHO exactly is going to ban me from here for something like criticizing the ADL, ACLU, Burn Loot Murder, etc?

You don't understand. He's concerned. And we have to address his concerns. If that means changing our behavior here, well... he's concerned.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 19, 2022, 10:17:17 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

Few things will get you banned here:

Posting politics unrelated to gamming anywhere else but this part of the forum.

Spouting ACTUAL white supremacist spiels

Spouting ACTUAL anti-semitism

From what I've seen criticizing anything/anyone is valid and won't even earn you a warning.

This place is owned by an actual libertarian/conservative

The mods either share his political views or at least his love for free speech.

Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale.

And you'll find a few non-white people here that do agree that seems to be the case. I for example.



And here 92% is why you keep losing to the 8% and why we're going to woke hell that'll make the hills of damnation look like Hawaii.

This line is about what? certain black and jewish groups bashing whites and calling for MASS MURDER of whites.

So what does this geekybugle guy go on about? No white supremist or anti jewish stuff.

Not "no supremist yammer of any kind", just white supremist and anti-jewish stuff in a line about jewish and black groups bashing whites!

"Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale."

Only as long as it's safe tough talk.

I swear, the 92% will cringe and say it's sorry when theyre being led to the gulag. Here's a question- if anyone joined here and said he was a member of those groups would he be banned for being part of hate groups? Yea, and I'll find a pot of gold left on my doorstep by friendly leprechauns after riding a rainbow to Ireland.

Care to clarify WHO exactly is going to ban me from here for something like criticizing the ADL, ACLU, Burn Loot Murder, etc?

You don't understand. He's concerned. And we have to address his concerns. If that means changing our behavior here, well... he's concerned.

His concern has been dully noted, even if he doesn't always makes ANY sense.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on February 22, 2022, 01:46:47 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on February 22, 2022, 03:15:13 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)
Some are probably just 'no commenting' and hoping it goes away.

Nobody wants to be the one to admit there's a problem. Or for that matter, to address it in a constructive manner.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 22, 2022, 03:17:58 PM
 It seems at least one home owner in Portland had enough of antifa protests.  Seems a few "protesters" who were armed F'd around and found out, leaving 5 shot and one dead.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on February 22, 2022, 03:25:49 PM
It seems at least one home owner in Portland had enough of antifa protests.  Seems a few "protesters" who were armed F'd around and found out, leaving 5 shot and one dead.

And nothing of value was lost on that day.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 22, 2022, 03:40:05 PM
It seems at least one home owner in Portland had enough of antifa protests.  Seems a few "protesters" who were armed F'd around and found out, leaving 5 shot and one dead.

And nothing of value was lost on that day.

  Well, I would have preferred a higher fatality rate.   
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on February 22, 2022, 04:14:34 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)

I'd like to hear what DriveThruRPG and D&D BEYOND have to say about throwing away their money to con artists.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/drivethrurpg-supporting-blm/

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dd-beyond-supporting-blm/
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on February 22, 2022, 06:45:32 PM
It seems at least one home owner in Portland had enough of antifa protests.  Seems a few "protesters" who were armed F'd around and found out, leaving 5 shot and one dead.

And nothing of value was lost on that day.
If it's Portland, they'll probably lose the trial.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on February 22, 2022, 07:09:49 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)

I'd like to hear what DriveThruRPG and D&D BEYOND have to say about throwing away their money to con artists.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/drivethrurpg-supporting-blm/

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dd-beyond-supporting-blm/

Funny. When enworld posted a link to dtrpg donating to BLM, NAACP, and another org, I asked a very simple question of *which* BLM org then money was going and for denounced.  But, being correct and denounced seems to be the only way leftists know how to deal with those who speak the truth.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on February 22, 2022, 07:32:25 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)

I'd like to hear what DriveThruRPG and D&D BEYOND have to say about throwing away their money to con artists.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/drivethrurpg-supporting-blm/

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dd-beyond-supporting-blm/

Funny. When enworld posted a link to dtrpg donating to BLM, NAACP, and another org, I asked a very simple question of *which* BLM org then money was going and for denounced.  But, being correct and denounced seems to be the only way leftists know how to deal with those who speak the truth.

Not to be a Mistwell and defend ENWorld, but the NAACP and UNCF are both valid 501(c)3 charity organizations with long histories. Burn Loot Murder has been around for only 8 years and is a corporation without any charitable licensing - it is a political action group of a very questionable nature.

So if it involves giving money to BLM, fuck them in the ass with a hot curling iron.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on February 22, 2022, 08:08:59 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)

I'd like to hear what DriveThruRPG and D&D BEYOND have to say about throwing away their money to con artists.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/drivethrurpg-supporting-blm/

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dd-beyond-supporting-blm/

Funny. When enworld posted a link to dtrpg donating to BLM, NAACP, and another org, I asked a very simple question of *which* BLM org then money was going and for denounced.  But, being correct and denounced seems to be the only way leftists know how to deal with those who speak the truth.

Not to be a Mistwell and defend ENWorld, but the NAACP and UNCF are both valid 501(c)3 charity organizations with long histories. Burn Loot Murder has been around for only 8 years and is a corporation without any charitable licensing - it is a political action group of a very questionable nature.

So if it involves giving money to BLM, fuck them in the ass with a hot curling iron.
BLM did receive 501(c)(3) status from the IRS in December 2020, and at that point no longer had to rely on the 501(c)(3) status of its sponsors, Thousands Currents and Tides. But it's been charged as out of compliance, didn't file tax reports in 2020, lists a false address, nobody knows who's the executive officer, legal action has been started by multiple states, and on and on and on. Here's a good quote:

Quote from: CharityWatch Executive Director, Laurie Styron
[BLM is] like a giant ghost ship full of treasure drifting in the night with no captain, no discernible crew, and no clear direction.
https://www.charitywatch.org/about-charitywatch/in-the-news
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on February 22, 2022, 10:20:47 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)

I don't specifically know anyone who has given to the BLM GNF. Most people I know who call themselves supporters of "Black Lives Matter" consider it to be a broader social movement - similar to other hashtag movements like #gamergate or #metoo. They don't follow Patrisse Cullors or the organization she founded.

It's my problem with hashtag movements that people sign on simply based on the sound of the name, without there being any clear platform or position.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Spinachcat on February 22, 2022, 10:23:09 PM
Wokeness will not end until the woke are ended.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on February 22, 2022, 11:07:55 PM
Do you guys know anyone who made donations to BLM? I'm just wondering what they feel about it now that there have been some revelations about their use of the cash.

(I also have to say that I'm continually surprised at people who could not see this coming. The way they pushed their supporter Bernie Sanders off the stage and started ranting about white people, the way they argued for theft, etc.)

I'd like to hear what DriveThruRPG and D&D BEYOND have to say about throwing away their money to con artists.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/drivethrurpg-supporting-blm/

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dd-beyond-supporting-blm/

Funny. When enworld posted a link to dtrpg donating to BLM, NAACP, and another org, I asked a very simple question of *which* BLM org then money was going and for denounced.  But, being correct and denounced seems to be the only way leftists know how to deal with those who speak the truth.

Not to be a Mistwell and defend ENWorld, but the NAACP and UNCF are both valid 501(c)3 charity organizations with long histories. Burn Loot Murder has been around for only 8 years and is a corporation without any charitable licensing - it is a political action group of a very questionable nature.

So if it involves giving money to BLM, fuck them in the ass with a hot curling iron.
BLM did receive 501(c)(3) status from the IRS in December 2020, and at that point no longer had to rely on the 501(c)(3) status of its sponsors, Thousands Currents and Tides. But it's been charged as out of compliance, didn't file tax reports in 2020, lists a false address, nobody knows who's the executive officer, legal action has been started by multiple states, and on and on and on. Here's a good quote:

Quote from: CharityWatch Executive Director, Laurie Styron
[BLM is] like a giant ghost ship full of treasure drifting in the night with no captain, no discernible crew, and no clear direction.
https://www.charitywatch.org/about-charitywatch/in-the-news

Thank you, I was unaware of that change in status.

But Holy Hell, the results from that change make BLM look like an even worse confidence scam.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 28, 2022, 02:45:00 PM
Wokeness will not end until the woke are ended.


Except the 92% are too damned scared to even speak up for real. They'll never cross the lines the 8% draws.

You see, everyone here wants the 8% gone, the woke out once and for all, only problem is you want SOMEONE ELSE to do it for you. Problem is, THEY want someone else to do it for them. So the 8% keep winning while the 92% sit on their damn arses talking tough- but not too tough.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 28, 2022, 03:09:36 PM
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

  Well, I think the ADL feels its a bit early to simply say their true position, that they hate white people.  It also seems the ADL does not feel jews, regardless of skin color, are white.  So no, it does not exclude a thing I am sure.

If I were you people I'd abandon this line FAST. It's ban bait as surely as it rains in Ireland.

Few things will get you banned here:

Posting politics unrelated to gamming anywhere else but this part of the forum.

Spouting ACTUAL white supremacist spiels

Spouting ACTUAL anti-semitism

From what I've seen criticizing anything/anyone is valid and won't even earn you a warning.

This place is owned by an actual libertarian/conservative

The mods either share his political views or at least his love for free speech.

Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale.

And you'll find a few non-white people here that do agree that seems to be the case. I for example.



And here 92% is why you keep losing to the 8% and why we're going to woke hell that'll make the hills of damnation look like Hawaii.

This line is about what? certain black and jewish groups bashing whites and calling for MASS MURDER of whites.

So what does this geekybugle guy go on about? No white supremist or anti jewish stuff.

Not "no supremist yammer of any kind", just white supremist and anti-jewish stuff in a line about jewish and black groups bashing whites!

"Saying that those ONGs/groups hate white people doesn't even register in the richter scale."

Only as long as it's safe tough talk.

I swear, the 92% will cringe and say it's sorry when theyre being led to the gulag. Here's a question- if anyone joined here and said he was a member of those groups would he be banned for being part of hate groups? Yea, and I'll find a pot of gold left on my doorstep by friendly leprechauns after riding a rainbow to Ireland.

Care to clarify WHO exactly is going to ban me from here for something like criticizing the ADL, ACLU, Burn Loot Murder, etc?

You don't understand. He's concerned. And we have to address his concerns. If that means changing our behavior here, well... he's concerned.

His concern has been dully noted, even if he doesn't always makes ANY sense.


All right, I'll try to make this simple as possible for you-

Only an idiot thinks we got to where saying orcs are evil is racist and you have games with those stupid x-cards in a few days. It happened step by step, boiling the poor frog, for DECADES. Bit by bit.

Things can get you put IN JAIL today or guilty of "hate speech"- in case you didn't notice this Geekybugle that seems a tad selective about what counts as "hate speech"- wasn't any of this years ago, like 1990.

Now read this carefully and slowly- you got TWO choices- either Pundit's 92% are hopeless absolute losers who keep losing to the 8% losers OR that whole woke thing is being run by people who AIN'T total losers. Nobody's talking about that last one so hopeless losers it is.

Either way everything's being moved more and more to the damned stinking left. Figure a big circle- some people standing as far right as they can, some to the left, and some in the middle. What the hell do you think happens if that circle moves left? Yeah, that's right- people standing in the middle now are right wingers and leftists are now in the middle, and anyone standing anywhere to the right before are now hate groups.

So the only way you can stay on the right side of history is by moving to the left yourself or- gasp goodness gwacious me- just by standing still suddenly you're a right wing jerk! The old Star Trek was pretty liberal in it's day, now you hear people whining about it being sexist whateverist. Guess what, everyone? The show itself ain't changed, but everything around it did by moving to the left.

In the Soviet Union did you know at first you could say things against it? Yeah, really! Then after some years if you stopped clapping when Stalin gave a speech or didn't say they should name the damned moon after the bastard off to the gulag with you.

If you still don't get it Geekybugle- it won't stop here. It's going to get so damn bad you'll call 2021 the good old days. It's going to get worse because the 92% is too scared to do anything and the 8% knows it. Using the wrong gender in some places when talking to someone is a crime. So do you think you're going to keep getting away with saying anything bad about left groups like ADL and BLM? The only reason you are is because they ain't gotten to this place yet. But the way anything to the right of the Hollywood is being censored sure as rain in Ireland it will happen. Pundit gets a call from any of these people saying knock it off or else what the hell do you think is going to happen?

You ask any geezer and he'll tell you they laughed about things getting anywhere near this bad. Well, they ain't laughing now.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 28, 2022, 03:20:21 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.


Won't matter. People were finally getting word of kiddie sex in Hollywood- calling Epstein Island- but they cooked up that metoo crap and sure as hell people forgot about it. The 92% still make the bastard diddlers rich by paying for cable and seeing movies. Except for suing the Boy Scouts and getting money nobody is exactly complaining about how that happened by letting homos in as scout masters, think that wasn't planned?

Over in the UK nobody wanted to talk about little girls being diddled by migrant "grooming gangs" (damned child molesters). It was blamed on "asians" because the media and stinking authorities know when you say asian people think japanese, chinese, korean, something like that, they ain't thinking muslims from Pakistan. Hell one guy who did try to get attention to it ended up in jail!

So why the hell would this hurt the woke?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 28, 2022, 03:30:31 PM
  Seems the extremely woke, Trump Hating community outreach head over at Facebook got caught on video meeting up with a 13 year old boy at a hotel room for sex.  That is going to be uncomfortable to explain.


Won't matter. People were finally getting word of kiddie sex in Hollywood- calling Epstein Island- but they cooked up that metoo crap and sure as hell people forgot about it. The 92% still make the bastard diddlers rich by paying for cable and seeing movies. Except for suing the Boy Scouts and getting money nobody is exactly complaining about how that happened by letting homos in as scout masters, think that wasn't planned?

Over in the UK nobody wanted to talk about little girls being diddled by migrant "grooming gangs" (damned child molesters). It was blamed on "asians" because the media and stinking authorities know when you say asian people think japanese, chinese, korean, something like that, they ain't thinking muslims from Pakistan. Hell one guy who did try to get attention to it ended up in jail!

So why the hell would this hurt the woke?

  I did not say it would.  I said the guy was going to have a hard time explaining that video.   
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 28, 2022, 03:34:30 PM
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible for anyone who still doesn't get it yet. What the hell is WRONG with the 92%!?
You are way off on your figures.  It's actually 87.35%.  And 57.48% of the 87.35% will not put up with the bullshit of the 12.65%. 
That makes 50.20% who are mad as hell and are not going to take it any more. 
Which way way higher than the 3% some far right groups claim it took to win the American Revolutionary war.


1- I'm going by Pundit's videos. Because why not. He's supposed to be running this place.

2- Sure, sure, yeah sure your 50.20 is mad as hell and won't take it any more. Sure. Hey there's that rainbow! Been hearing that for years. Hey guess what? Last year they BANNED BOOKS BY DR. SUESS and saying orcs are evil is racist! Groups like the ADL saying only whites can be racist and BLM saying kill whitey out in the open AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT. Your 50.25% been taking it over and over and still are.

In places like California you might as well not bother voting because if it goes the wrong way they "find" more votes until it goes the way the left wants. Notice how now Biden got in those Russians were nowhere around in 2016? If Trump got in again what do you think the media- owned by the woke- would be crying on about?

And even if we go by your figures the mad as hell types still really outnumber the 12.65% losers but are still losing more and more to them. People who say anything else are like that king from "Erik the Viking" when his island was sinking.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 28, 2022, 03:39:16 PM
I'll try to keep this as simple as possible for anyone who still doesn't get it yet. What the hell is WRONG with the 92%!?
You are way off on your figures.  It's actually 87.35%.  And 57.48% of the 87.35% will not put up with the bullshit of the 12.65%. 
That makes 50.20% who are mad as hell and are not going to take it any more. 
Which way way higher than the 3% some far right groups claim it took to win the American Revolutionary war.


1- I'm going by Pundit's videos. Because why not. He's supposed to be running this place.

2- Sure, sure, yeah sure your 50.20 is mad as hell and won't take it any more. Sure. Hey there's that rainbow! Been hearing that for years. Hey guess what? Last year they BANNED BOOKS BY DR. SUESS and saying orcs are evil is racist! Groups like the ADL saying only whites can be racist and BLM saying kill whitey out in the open AND GETTING AWAY WITH IT. Your 50.25% been taking it over and over and still are.

In places like California you might as well not bother voting because if it goes the wrong way they "find" more votes until it goes the way the left wants. Notice how now Biden got in those Russians were nowhere around in 2016? If Trump got in again what do you think the media- owned by the woke- would be crying on about?

And even if we go by your figures the mad as hell types still really outnumber the 12.65% losers but are still losing more and more to them. People who say anything else are like that king from "Erik the Viking" when his island was sinking.

  I think they are waiting to vote their way out of it.  They might be waiting a long time on that one.  I would say that is about as useful as talking their way out of it, ie speaking up.  It is never a retreat with the always left crowd.  Two steps forward, and every now and then they have to take one step back before they start again. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on February 28, 2022, 04:23:12 PM
Been hearing that for years too. Problem is the left is stealing the whole damned system look up Zuckerbucks, and the 92% is too scared to even speak up. The whining here about the BLM and ADL is just because people figure it's safe.

Look, in my never to be approved post about WHY the 92% are terminal losers I said the obvious and you brought it up- the 8% may be stupid insane losers but they aren't scared and want to WIN no matter what.

The 92%? Just say you'll call them whateverist and they'll run away EVERY SINGLE DAMNED TIME. Corner a rabbit and it'll fight but not the 92%- hell, they'll turn on their own to suck up to the people hating on them.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 28, 2022, 04:29:40 PM
    Message me to make the point you want to make.  I do not understand where you are on this, and how you feel shaking a fist at the clouds changes it.  It honestly makes you look a little like you joined the forum from an office in an FBI building.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on February 28, 2022, 04:43:09 PM
It honestly makes you look a little like you joined the forum from an office in an FBI building.

If that is true then I have some autistic ideas regarding my government that could be turned into reality with appropriate funding.

In cash please.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on February 28, 2022, 04:45:07 PM
It honestly makes you look a little like you joined the forum from an office in an FBI building.

If that is true then I have some autistic ideas regarding my government that could be turned into reality with appropriate funding.

In cash please.

  It would have to be, otherwise you get the Canada Banking treatment.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on March 17, 2022, 06:31:05 PM
    Message me to make the point you want to make.  I do not understand where you are on this, and how you feel shaking a fist at the clouds changes it.  It honestly makes you look a little like you joined the forum from an office in an FBI building.


You know perfectly well what I'm saying. The woke- Pundit's 8%- keep winning because they ain't afraid to fight dirty. Call them names like "anti tradition" "anti American" and "anti white guys" think they'll care? They don't. Hell, they'll take it as a damn compliment.

I'll make this as simple as possible for you- the 92% been losing for a long time. This is why saying orcs are evil is racist and you got those x-cards. This is why the 8% got the media, colleges, government, dnd, schools, you name it.

So how did a minority of total losers pull that off? Because the 92%- as in you- are too damned scared to do anything. Call the 92% bigots or racists or sexists or whatever and it's like pulling a cross on Dracula. They always back down. Maybe you haven't noticed but what you been doing all these years hasn't exactly worked?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Redwanderer on March 17, 2022, 06:33:23 PM
And here we go.


Look, I'll take a chance riverdancing in hobnail boots through the ban minefield like Lord of the Dunce so maybe the 92% learns something and finally starts figuring out why they've always been hopeless losers to the 8% losers. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll find a pot of gold left by friendly leprechauns. Hard to say what's more likely. We'll also see just how much free speech is really allowed here or if it's rpg.net blarney, watch for that stupid line through my name.

The biggest problem is the 92%s obeying to what the 8% wants. The 8% draws lines saying "don't say this don't do that" pushing the 92% closer and closer to the edge of the cliff and the 92% obeys when it's not busying itself pushing each other off first. The 8% tells the 92% to fight polite and clean while the 8% can fight dirty as all hell. HEY 92% YOU DON'T WIN FIGHTS DOING WHAT THE 8% TELLS YOU TO DO.
Ask about banning here and surely someone babbles about "anti semite white supremist whatever". We're talking about black and jewish bigot groups saying only white people can be racist and needing to be MURDERED so what does someone here go on about? White supremist anti semite of course- so other supremist talk is okey dokey fine? But did anyone complain about that except Yours Truly? Course not, we're talking about the 92% here.
Since the 92% ain't ever going to figure this out I'll keep saying it- you have a black group like BLM saying kill all the whites and jewish groups like the ADL and SPLC saying only whites can be racist. SO- if all the whites are killed no more racism giving BLM real good reason to say kill all whites! Gah, just a coincidence I'm sure, like always. Could it be maybe just maybe the problem today is- gasp!- jews and blacks hating on whites and not white supremist anti semitism? Ooooo I'm surely dancing on a ban mine for saying the obvious ain't I? HAH!
Since that post will never be approved here's some of it- government, schools, pop culture like dnd and media aren't going anywhere so SOMEONE'S got to run them. It's either you 92% or the 8% and those are the only two choices. If by some miracle the 92% is ever running things again maybe it'll remember what happened when they let the 8% get it's foot in the door by being told to be "reasonable" by the 8%- and how the 8% returned the favor by taking EVERYTHING? How bad the 92% got itself screwed over and over and over? If there is a next time it won't give ONE DAMN INCH?

Another problem is the 92% don't want to do anything about the 8%. Yeah you heard me right Pundit and you lot, none of you wants to do anything about them. What you want is SOMEONE ELSE to do something about them, problem is anyone who isn't a damned coward knows the 92% will NEVER back him up, they'll either do nothing or more likely push him off the cliff to suck up to the 8% when it comes down to it. So nothing gets done and if you think it's bad now just what the hell do you think it's going to be like twenty years from now? We're in this dungheap now because worthless cowards did nothing about it years ago and the same cowardice now surely means worse years from now.

Another problem is that "just extremists not the whole groups" blarney because you'll notice nobody in those groups is saying anything against them?
You have BLM saying kill white people. All right, how come the non-BLM black people're not saying anything against it? And I mean a whole lot of them, not just a few, loud for ALL to hear? But surprise! nothing.
With the SPLC and ADL it gets a wee bit more complicated so pay attention- those groups are jewish, right? And they're trashing white people.
Now here's the wee bit more complicated part- when you look at a list of who runs what in the media it's plain to anyone no matter how sloshed if there is anyone on this world can speak up against those "extremists" it's that group. Nobody can say anything against them or else. So NOBODY is in a better position to say something so why don't I hear that group protesting? But all you get from the media is leftism and stuff about white racism and white bashing. Guess what I DIDN'T see- anything about those "extremist" bigot groups bashing and even calling for white murder. Nothing. And the non-media types ain't exactly marching in the streets protesting any of it are they?

So just what the hell am I supposed to think? Imagine if powerful Irish groups started saying jews and blacks were rotten hooligans who should be killed and suppose the media and ad business was run by Irishmen and pushed nasty anti black and jewish stuff and the Irish never said anything about any of it, what do you think jews and blacks would think about the Irish? Got that part now? "Silence is violence" did some people suddenly forget that? Gah!
Some whites say anything bad about those groups- even if they ain't calling for murder- ALL whites better damn them to hell and back good and loud but when it's the other way around it's whites better just make excuses for them and damn themselves about white supremists. Ever notice those other groups never return the favor?


The 92% been dumbed down and scared so much the 8% already won but this really goes for white people because they can't even figure out people hedging their bets. Sooner or later something's got to give if this keeps up, so one of two things got to happen- one, and my money's on this one, whites just bend over and let themselves get screwed over and killed rather than be called names even helping by pushing each other off the cliff like the whole 92% been doing for years. Well those other groups will surely want to share in the spoils of victory. Think they'll cry over what happened and damn the "extremists"? HAH! You believe that then I got some really nice tropical property in Dublin I'd like to sell you!
But suppose the moon rises in the west and whites crack open a dictionary and look up words like courage and unity then finally stand up for themselves and WIN? Oh then SOMEONE is going to be neck deep in the dungheap for sure- NOW those groups will speak up good and loud, whining about how it wasn't them it was those "extremists".
Could it be they figure not saying anything now then no matter what happens later they win or at least lose nothing?
This is why I'm not going to give a rat's arse anymore if anything ever happens to those groups. They never did speak up for me, maybe they hated on me and agreed with it all, either way why the hell should I do anything for them? I'll just sit back and do what they did for me- NOTHING. I'm not wasting my time crying over anyone never did anything for me.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: HappyDaze on March 17, 2022, 06:48:19 PM
And here we go.


Look, I'll take a chance riverdancing in hobnail boots through the ban minefield like Lord of the Dunce so maybe the 92% learns something and finally starts figuring out why they've always been hopeless losers to the 8% losers. Maybe tomorrow morning I'll find a pot of gold left by friendly leprechauns. Hard to say what's more likely. We'll also see just how much free speech is really allowed here or if it's rpg.net blarney, watch for that stupid line through my name.

The biggest problem is the 92%s obeying to what the 8% wants. The 8% draws lines saying "don't say this don't do that" pushing the 92% closer and closer to the edge of the cliff and the 92% obeys when it's not busying itself pushing each other off first. The 8% tells the 92% to fight polite and clean while the 8% can fight dirty as all hell. HEY 92% YOU DON'T WIN FIGHTS DOING WHAT THE 8% TELLS YOU TO DO.
Ask about banning here and surely someone babbles about "anti semite white supremist whatever". We're talking about black and jewish bigot groups saying only white people can be racist and needing to be MURDERED so what does someone here go on about? White supremist anti semite of course- so other supremist talk is okey dokey fine? But did anyone complain about that except Yours Truly? Course not, we're talking about the 92% here.
Since the 92% ain't ever going to figure this out I'll keep saying it- you have a black group like BLM saying kill all the whites and jewish groups like the ADL and SPLC saying only whites can be racist. SO- if all the whites are killed no more racism giving BLM real good reason to say kill all whites! Gah, just a coincidence I'm sure, like always. Could it be maybe just maybe the problem today is- gasp!- jews and blacks hating on whites and not white supremist anti semitism? Ooooo I'm surely dancing on a ban mine for saying the obvious ain't I? HAH!
Since that post will never be approved here's some of it- government, schools, pop culture like dnd and media aren't going anywhere so SOMEONE'S got to run them. It's either you 92% or the 8% and those are the only two choices. If by some miracle the 92% is ever running things again maybe it'll remember what happened when they let the 8% get it's foot in the door by being told to be "reasonable" by the 8%- and how the 8% returned the favor by taking EVERYTHING? How bad the 92% got itself screwed over and over and over? If there is a next time it won't give ONE DAMN INCH?

Another problem is the 92% don't want to do anything about the 8%. Yeah you heard me right Pundit and you lot, none of you wants to do anything about them. What you want is SOMEONE ELSE to do something about them, problem is anyone who isn't a damned coward knows the 92% will NEVER back him up, they'll either do nothing or more likely push him off the cliff to suck up to the 8% when it comes down to it. So nothing gets done and if you think it's bad now just what the hell do you think it's going to be like twenty years from now? We're in this dungheap now because worthless cowards did nothing about it years ago and the same cowardice now surely means worse years from now.

Another problem is that "just extremists not the whole groups" blarney because you'll notice nobody in those groups is saying anything against them?
You have BLM saying kill white people. All right, how come the non-BLM black people're not saying anything against it? And I mean a whole lot of them, not just a few, loud for ALL to hear? But surprise! nothing.
With the SPLC and ADL it gets a wee bit more complicated so pay attention- those groups are jewish, right? And they're trashing white people.
Now here's the wee bit more complicated part- when you look at a list of who runs what in the media it's plain to anyone no matter how sloshed if there is anyone on this world can speak up against those "extremists" it's that group. Nobody can say anything against them or else. So NOBODY is in a better position to say something so why don't I hear that group protesting? But all you get from the media is leftism and stuff about white racism and white bashing. Guess what I DIDN'T see- anything about those "extremist" bigot groups bashing and even calling for white murder. Nothing. And the non-media types ain't exactly marching in the streets protesting any of it are they?

So just what the hell am I supposed to think? Imagine if powerful Irish groups started saying jews and blacks were rotten hooligans who should be killed and suppose the media and ad business was run by Irishmen and pushed nasty anti black and jewish stuff and the Irish never said anything about any of it, what do you think jews and blacks would think about the Irish? Got that part now? "Silence is violence" did some people suddenly forget that? Gah!
Some whites say anything bad about those groups- even if they ain't calling for murder- ALL whites better damn them to hell and back good and loud but when it's the other way around it's whites better just make excuses for them and damn themselves about white supremists. Ever notice those other groups never return the favor?


The 92% been dumbed down and scared so much the 8% already won but this really goes for white people because they can't even figure out people hedging their bets. Sooner or later something's got to give if this keeps up, so one of two things got to happen- one, and my money's on this one, whites just bend over and let themselves get screwed over and killed rather than be called names even helping by pushing each other off the cliff like the whole 92% been doing for years. Well those other groups will surely want to share in the spoils of victory. Think they'll cry over what happened and damn the "extremists"? HAH! You believe that then I got some really nice tropical property in Dublin I'd like to sell you!
But suppose the moon rises in the west and whites crack open a dictionary and look up words like courage and unity then finally stand up for themselves and WIN? Oh then SOMEONE is going to be neck deep in the dungheap for sure- NOW those groups will speak up good and loud, whining about how it wasn't them it was those "extremists".
Could it be they figure not saying anything now then no matter what happens later they win or at least lose nothing?
This is why I'm not going to give a rat's arse anymore if anything ever happens to those groups. They never did speak up for me, maybe they hated on me and agreed with it all, either way why the hell should I do anything for them? I'll just sit back and do what they did for me- NOTHING. I'm not wasting my time crying over anyone never did anything for me.
I feel like I'm at work listening to the ranting of an involuntarily committed behavior patient...except here I don't have to give a shit.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 10, 2022, 04:02:34 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 10, 2022, 05:20:22 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 10, 2022, 06:02:34 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 10, 2022, 06:59:29 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.

Why?

It's not like it would matter to you if I directly linked to the CSIS database because you've already made up your mind.

And I'm the one who is drinking kool-aid?

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Chris24601 on April 10, 2022, 07:06:06 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.
Another key point for the “nonpartisan” (i.e. Leftists pretending to not be) report… it covers up to 2020… not through 2020. In other words, they cut off their data just before Burn Loot Murder went on its rampage.

And my gut instinct was right… I looked them up and nonpartisan centrist my ass. Their board is a who’s who of anti-Trump and big government figures and their sponsors read like a listing of the top Forever War military contractors.

Leftists lie.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 10, 2022, 07:09:20 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.
Another key point for the “nonpartisan” (i.e. Leftists pretending to not be) report… it covers up to 2020… not through 2020. In other words, they cut off their data just before Burn Loot Murder went on its rampage.

And my gut instinct was right… I looked them up and nonpartisan centrist my ass. Their board is a who’s who of anti-Trump and big government figures and their sponsors read like a listing of the top Forever War military contractors.

Leftists lie.

Actually no.

It's because the report IS from June 2020
https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/200612_Jones_DomesticTerrorism_v6.pdf

Also... Using expressions like "anti-trump" and "big goverment" is just such a great way to make me disregard anything you say, because every opinion you have comes from the mouth of your right-wing media overlords.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 10, 2022, 07:23:58 PM

Also... Using expressions like "anti-trump" and "big goverment" is just such a great way to make me disregard anything you say, because every opinion you have comes from the mouth of your right-wing media overlords.
There are right-wing media overlords? I thought the right had whatshisface over at Fox, and... echo echo? A bunch of podcasts? Maybe a few radio stations? A few youtube channels?

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 10, 2022, 08:35:27 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.

Why?

It's not like it would matter to you if I directly linked to the CSIS database because you've already made up your mind.

And I'm the one who is drinking kool-aid?

Unlike YOU, I do change my mind when evidence is provided.

World wide, terrorism is mainly Islamist, followed by left wing in a distant second place, then right wing.

You provide the number of deaths and not the number of attacks to obscure the fact that YOUR side IS the more violent one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present)

Check it year by year if you wish.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 10, 2022, 08:36:11 PM

Also... Using expressions like "anti-trump" and "big goverment" is just such a great way to make me disregard anything you say, because every opinion you have comes from the mouth of your right-wing media overlords.
There are right-wing media overlords? I thought the right had whatshisface over at Fox, and... echo echo? A bunch of podcasts? Maybe a few radio stations? A few youtube channels?

I bet the idiot thinks Biden is right wing too.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 10, 2022, 09:39:44 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

First off, I am talking about a SHIFT in recent years. Secondly, if you noticed, yes I am aware, and very suspicious of any study that has a political bent by now, since I know enough researchers to know that they just can't leave their own biases out in those cases. See some studies "demonstrating" that false accusations of rape are rare for instance (the data use would never have passed review in any other topic). And secondly, I think I know what I mean; what do you think is safer; a MAGA hat in a Biden rally or a Biden/Harris hat in a Trump rally? Also, do you know any Biden or Hillary supporters who were murdered for their political stance?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ocule on April 10, 2022, 10:09:07 PM
At this point I wonder if violence is the only language these people understand. Of course left wing terrorism is going to be under represented given that they don’t classify these attacks as left wing, and usually try to pin it on the right anyway. 17? What was that like day 2 of chaz?

To reference a philosopher the left loves to quote out of context when convenient, maybe it is time for the fist and the pistol. Look at what they are doing? And continuing to do. This is an active attack on a whole country and all these fucking “muh 2A” dudes who are more comfortable behind their keyboard than behind a trigger. When they do show up they allow themselves to be murdered by random lefty asshole.

“ Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 10, 2022, 10:41:03 PM
  Lots of studies like that are "centrist" ....but why would they separate ethno nationalists from white supremacists?  It seems they had to link incels to "right wing" as well (whereas I always thought right wing ideology involved getting a wife and settling down...not trying to bang women and get laid all the time).   In any event, it does not show me who is more violent, it shows me who has better aim.  I think that is important to remember.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 10, 2022, 10:43:57 PM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

  You mean the same way Obama called the muslim shooter on the military base "workplace violence"?  Or how the pulse nightclub shooter was a "frustrated closeted gay guy" despite shouting Allah Akbar and dedicating his shooting to ISIS?  Or the BLM shooter in Dallas who killed those cops was not in fact supporting BLM, but a "lone person with issues"?  You mean that sort of framing?   How did they qualify 9/11 in that study?   For some reason they seem to have not bothered to put that one on their charts.... Centrist my ass.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 10, 2022, 10:47:34 PM
At this point I wonder if violence is the only language these people understand. Of course left wing terrorism is going to be under represented given that they don’t classify these attacks as left wing, and usually try to pin it on the right anyway. 17? What was that like day 2 of chaz?

To reference a philosopher the left loves to quote out of context when convenient, maybe it is time for the fist and the pistol. Look at what they are doing? And continuing to do. This is an active attack on a whole country and all these fucking “muh 2A” dudes who are more comfortable behind their keyboard than behind a trigger. When they do show up they allow themselves to be murdered by random lefty asshole.

“ Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”

   At some point, should right leaning normies realize that, all hell will break loose.   Let's hope they just keep slaving away for that pension/retirement and keep voting for change.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 11, 2022, 02:57:45 AM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.

Why?

It's not like it would matter to you if I directly linked to the CSIS database because you've already made up your mind.

And I'm the one who is drinking kool-aid?

Unlike YOU, I do change my mind when evidence is provided.

World wide, terrorism is mainly Islamist, followed by left wing in a distant second place, then right wing.

You provide the number of deaths and not the number of attacks to obscure the fact that YOUR side IS the more violent one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present)

Check it year by year if you wish.

Which side is more violent?

10 antifa throwing rocks or bangers at a demonstration at armored police or 1 right winger armed with a AR going into a black church or a mosque killing several people? Or blowing up a abortion clinic?

I know which side is definitely more lethal.

I did not obscure the number of attacks, as this image was in the pdf i shared that you obviously didnt look at (or understood)

This picture below shows the share between different type of attacks from different factions.
Light blue is rightwing, green is leftwing.

Last time leftwing stood for the majority of violence was in 2005 unless you want to nitpick about 2013 where the left were about even with the right.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg)

Trond asked why it appeared to him that the leftwing had become more violent in the last 10 years in the US.

Looking at the blue line on this picture makes me wonder what made him believe that.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg)

Also. HAHAHA wikipedia!

you're killing me!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on April 11, 2022, 05:20:12 AM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.

Why?

It's not like it would matter to you if I directly linked to the CSIS database because you've already made up your mind.

And I'm the one who is drinking kool-aid?

Unlike YOU, I do change my mind when evidence is provided.

World wide, terrorism is mainly Islamist, followed by left wing in a distant second place, then right wing.

You provide the number of deaths and not the number of attacks to obscure the fact that YOUR side IS the more violent one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present)

Check it year by year if you wish.

Which side is more violent?

10 antifa throwing rocks or bangers at a demonstration at armored police or 1 right winger armed with a AR going into a black church or a mosque killing several people? Or blowing up a abortion clinic?

I know which side is definitely more lethal.

I did not obscure the number of attacks, as this image was in the pdf i shared that you obviously didnt look at (or understood)

This picture below shows the share between different type of attacks from different factions.
Light blue is rightwing, green is leftwing.

Last time leftwing stood for the majority of violence was in 2005 unless you want to nitpick about 2013 where the left were about even with the right.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg)

Trond asked why it appeared to him that the leftwing had become more violent in the last 10 years in the US.

Looking at the blue line on this picture makes me wonder what made him believe that.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg)

Also. HAHAHA wikipedia!

you're killing me!

Wntrlnd, with all due respect, do you seriously believe that 2020 the summer of love was just some kind of right wing organised event?

Or is it that riots dont fall under the "terrorist" label?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Chris24601 on April 11, 2022, 07:56:00 AM
When someone with a known Leftist background does it, they were mentally ill. When a right-wing person does it, it was an organized political terror campaign.

Based on the above criteria it’s obvious that Leftism is a mental illness.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 11, 2022, 08:46:26 AM
….,

Last time leftwing stood for the majority of violence was in 2005 unless you want to nitpick about 2013 where the left were about even with the right.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg)

Trond asked why it appeared to him that the leftwing had become more violent in the last 10 years in the US.

Looking at the blue line on this picture makes me wonder what made him believe that.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg)

Also. HAHAHA wikipedia!

you're killing me!

Counting 2020? Oh yeah, that is a f***ing joke. People on the left, politicians and public figures even, were literally cheering on people going nuts in the streets and setting buildings, including police stations, on fire. It screams “unreliable data” to the high heavens.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 11, 2022, 09:14:25 AM

Also... Using expressions like "anti-trump" and "big goverment" is just such a great way to make me disregard anything you say, because every opinion you have comes from the mouth of your right-wing media overlords.
There are right-wing media overlords? I thought the right had whatshisface over at Fox, and... echo echo? A bunch of podcasts? Maybe a few radio stations? A few youtube channels?

I bet the idiot thinks Biden is right wing too.

  Well, I think its impossible to call Biden any wing.  That dude has no idea if he has shit his pants, what time of day it is, or where he is.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ocule on April 11, 2022, 09:41:58 AM

Also... Using expressions like "anti-trump" and "big goverment" is just such a great way to make me disregard anything you say, because every opinion you have comes from the mouth of your right-wing media overlords.
There are right-wing media overlords? I thought the right had whatshisface over at Fox, and... echo echo? A bunch of podcasts? Maybe a few radio stations? A few youtube channels?

I bet the idiot thinks Biden is right wing too.

  Well, I think its impossible to call Biden any wing.  That dude has no idea if he has shit his pants, what time of day it is, or where he is.

Usually when I refer to Biden unless I’m mocking his intelligence I’m usually referring to the puppet masters
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Fheredin on April 11, 2022, 09:59:44 AM
Comparing statistics arguing one side is more violent than another is a pointless exercise in seeing what you want to see. Even if there were no bias in reporting and data aggregation (which is hilariously unreasonable) the very concepts of left and right in politics are not tight enough for the statistics to be meaningful.

What I will remind you is that in the United States, anyway, Republican or leaning Republican voters have a gun ownership rate which is over double the Democrat or leaning Democrat rate. By and large, groups like Antifa can bully Democrats and Independents because they have a relatively low gun ownership rate, but when they go to attack Republicans, they hit a group where about 2/3rds of households have a gun in the household and a disproportionate amount of the gun-handling experience in the nation. Attacking that requires paramilitary terrorists with training. The best B-list street enforcers like BLM and Antifa can manage is a Pyrrhic victory, which a disorganized group doesn't have the discipline to withstand, anyway. For this reason, Antifa and BLM deflected most of their violence at softer targets they knew they could hit; independents and property.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 11, 2022, 10:39:59 AM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.

Why?

It's not like it would matter to you if I directly linked to the CSIS database because you've already made up your mind.

And I'm the one who is drinking kool-aid?

Unlike YOU, I do change my mind when evidence is provided.

World wide, terrorism is mainly Islamist, followed by left wing in a distant second place, then right wing.

You provide the number of deaths and not the number of attacks to obscure the fact that YOUR side IS the more violent one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present)

Check it year by year if you wish.

Which side is more violent?

10 antifa throwing rocks or bangers at a demonstration at armored police or 1 right winger armed with a AR going into a black church or a mosque killing several people? Or blowing up a abortion clinic?

I know which side is definitely more lethal.

I did not obscure the number of attacks, as this image was in the pdf i shared that you obviously didnt look at (or understood)

This picture below shows the share between different type of attacks from different factions.
Light blue is rightwing, green is leftwing.

Last time leftwing stood for the majority of violence was in 2005 unless you want to nitpick about 2013 where the left were about even with the right.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg)

Trond asked why it appeared to him that the leftwing had become more violent in the last 10 years in the US.

Looking at the blue line on this picture makes me wonder what made him believe that.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg)

Also. HAHAHA wikipedia!

you're killing me!

The question is who commits more terrorist acts?  Your commie scum friends by a country mile.

Also Genetic Fallacy, you want to challenge ANY of the data in the article linked? For instance that all the left wing terrorism is really right wing or something? Can you back that up? Because I bet you can't contradict a single point in that article. I know because other commie scum have tried.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 11, 2022, 10:43:37 AM
Perhaps violence is a sign of desperation? I arrived in the USA about ten years ago, and it’s hard not to notice the political left has turned more and more violent. Despite what some “studies” say about the right I’m no longer in doubt that the left has completely overtaken the right in the use of violence. Andy Ngo alone has suffered several injuries (and some leftists again called for violence against him recently, turns out they harassed the wrong Asian though). I also know of Trump supporters who were killed for their politics but not a single case the other way round (correct me if I’m wrong).

You are wrong.

CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies) a centrist and bipartisan thinktank has taken a look at almost 900 politically motivated attacks and plots since 1994 (up to 2020)

What they found was 21 victims killed in leftwing attacks and 117 victims killed in rightwing attacks (between 2010 and 2020) in the US.

Could it be that left wing attacks are overrepresented in the last 10 years are non-lethal attacks that doesnt end up in fatalities while rightwingers are more prone to shoot to kill? Possible.

Could also be that the news sources you watch doesn't frame the right wing attacks as politically motivated but "just one  mentally ill person"

Please cite those attacks, both the "left wing" and the "right wing" ones. Because I have noticed that black separatists, black ethno-nationalists tend to be counted as "right-wing never mind their political ideas are socialism/communism.

Also, do we count how many people have died or do we count how many attacks were commited?

Because by YOUR standard all the people attacked by the antifart and burn loot murder that didn't die means those don't count.

Just during the latest "summer of love" during the "fiery but mostly peaceful 30+ people were killed by those two leftwing groups. BILLIONS in damages, how many wounded?

But you go ahead and keep on drinking the koolaid.

Why?

It's not like it would matter to you if I directly linked to the CSIS database because you've already made up your mind.

And I'm the one who is drinking kool-aid?

Unlike YOU, I do change my mind when evidence is provided.

World wide, terrorism is mainly Islamist, followed by left wing in a distant second place, then right wing.

You provide the number of deaths and not the number of attacks to obscure the fact that YOUR side IS the more violent one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents#1970%E2%80%93present)

Check it year by year if you wish.

Which side is more violent?

10 antifa throwing rocks or bangers at a demonstration at armored police or 1 right winger armed with a AR going into a black church or a mosque killing several people? Or blowing up a abortion clinic?

I know which side is definitely more lethal.

I did not obscure the number of attacks, as this image was in the pdf i shared that you obviously didnt look at (or understood)

This picture below shows the share between different type of attacks from different factions.
Light blue is rightwing, green is leftwing.

Last time leftwing stood for the majority of violence was in 2005 unless you want to nitpick about 2013 where the left were about even with the right.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg)

Trond asked why it appeared to him that the leftwing had become more violent in the last 10 years in the US.

Looking at the blue line on this picture makes me wonder what made him believe that.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg)

Also. HAHAHA wikipedia!

you're killing me!

Wntrlnd, with all due respect, do you seriously believe that 2020 the summer of love was just some kind of right wing organised event?

Or is it that riots dont fall under the "terrorist" label?

"FBI definition of terrorism: The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives."

It's that his "Neutral" source is biased to the left HARD. And since he's commie scum he laps it up without thinking...

Of course if he could think he wouldn't be commie scum.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 11, 2022, 10:45:25 AM
….,

Last time leftwing stood for the majority of violence was in 2005 unless you want to nitpick about 2013 where the left were about even with the right.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-01.jpg)

Trond asked why it appeared to him that the leftwing had become more violent in the last 10 years in the US.

Looking at the blue line on this picture makes me wonder what made him believe that.

(https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/TNT_Graphics_Web-02.jpg)

Also. HAHAHA wikipedia!

you're killing me!

Counting 2020? Oh yeah, that is a f***ing joke. People on the left, politicians and public figures even, were literally cheering on people going nuts in the streets and setting buildings, including police stations, on fire. It screams “unreliable data” to the high heavens.

As I said. It was published in June 2020. Is it possible it didnt have all the data for the summer 2020 yet? Is it possible it WAS published to highlight that whatever leftwing violence that happened, it was to remind us that this have been after period of rising rightwing violence?

But its true that whatever data happened during and after 2020 should be added. You might not like the addition of january 6th though..
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ocule on April 11, 2022, 11:21:31 AM
How many people died during January 6th protest? The only violent death was a protestor being shot unjustly so unless you count harsh language as violence…wait lefties usually do
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 11, 2022, 11:25:48 AM
How many people died during January 6th protest? The only violent death was a protestor being shot unjustly so unless you count harsh language as violence…wait lefties usually do

I guess you missed all the footage of the domestic terrorists assaulting police. So much for the "blue lives matter"
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 11, 2022, 11:26:17 AM
   I do not mind the right wing as being considered "more violent".  The reality is they are with regard to severity of consequence.  That study has to reach elbow deep into its ass though, to make incels and white supremacists "right wing", despite incels not really looking very right wing by traditional standards, and that study actually has ethnonationalism as a category (which is where white supremacy should be, unless you are just trying to pad stats). 


   The study is trash.  It is not "centrist" and it simply wants to paint a narrative (which I can honestly say, of the many people I know, right, left and center, the right wing folks are MUCH more capable and willing regarding serious violence, so no issue from me saying they are more violent) and has to hopscotch categories to get where it wants to be.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 11, 2022, 11:28:15 AM
How many people died during January 6th protest? The only violent death was a protestor being shot unjustly so unless you count harsh language as violence…wait lefties usually do

I guess you missed all the footage of the domestic terrorists assaulting police. So much for the "blue lives matter"

   So rioters are domestic terrorists?  I think that is going to skew your shitty study quite a bit.  As for "blue lives matter", normies are idiots to think the police are on their side.  I am ok with calling all the rioters domestic terrorists though, but I think that is going to put quite a bruise on BLM...not that it needs more bad publicity.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 11, 2022, 11:38:46 AM
  The best part about calling things "right wing" is as the left has gone batshit, it is SUPER easy to end up right wing now a days.  Problems with men in Women's locker rooms or sports?  Right wing.  Problems with showing up to vote?  Right Wing.   Having any issues with abrupt societal shifts conflicting with personal or religious beliefs?  Right Wing.  Defeating Referendums with a democratic vote (like California did with denying same sex marriage)? Right Wing.   Taking issue with jumping into wars on a whim?   Right Wing.  Problems with massive corporations dictating your life or speech to you?  Right Wing.   Issues with having medical procedures forced upon you?  Right Wing. 

  It is getting super duper easy to be right wing.  You used to have to at least go to church on sundays, now you can just not shift your point of view abruptly every 2 years and you end up right wing.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Wntrlnd on April 11, 2022, 12:04:45 PM
How many people died during January 6th protest? The only violent death was a protestor being shot unjustly so unless you count harsh language as violence…wait lefties usually do

I guess you missed all the footage of the domestic terrorists assaulting police. So much for the "blue lives matter"

   So rioters are domestic terrorists?  I think that is going to skew your shitty study quite a bit.  As for "blue lives matter", normies are idiots to think the police are on their side.  I am ok with calling all the rioters domestic terrorists though, but I think that is going to put quite a bruise on BLM...not that it needs more bad publicity.

You wont see me defending BLM.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 11, 2022, 12:13:52 PM
Greetings!

Oh, Geesus. All the Left-Wing pussy bitches that cry sanctimoniously about "January 6th!" can shove a plunger in their fucking asses. The Left-Wing cunts should get together and demand that all of the hordes of ANTIFA and BLM thugs be fucking hunted down and strung the fuck up--all of those very real riots--murdering dozens of people, beating people, looting, burning, and causing BILLIONS of dollars in damages--is far more real and important.

The January 6th protest was a fucking picnic by comparison.

But we know that the Left supported ANTIFA and BLM--and the fucking Marxist bitches STILL DO.

Fucking Leftist cunts don't know what a real right-wing riot is. Just imagine groups of right-wing groups ruthlessly hunting down sobbing Leftists all over the country, and curb-stomping the shit out of them. Dragging the fucking Marxists out of their rat-nest homes and making them swing from nearby trees--everywhere. Every time Leftists get togther to "Protest"--they are savagely raked by sniper fire. Heavily armed gangs swarm them as the Leftist rats attempt to flee, and beat them into jello with lead pipes. Rip their fucking tongues out. Whaa! Whaa!

THAT would be something for the Leftist cunts to worry about.

January 6th? That was fucking nothing. A tragedy that a veteran--and a patriot--unarmed by the way--was murdered by a Capitol Police Officer. No crying about "Police Brutality!" there, huh? Fucking lying goddamned rats. No worries though. More and more Americans see through the fucking Marxist propaganda campaign so loved by the Leftist rats, and are turning against the Leftist fucking hordes.

Every dog has their day, so the old saying goes. The savage dog day against the Leftists in this country and around the world is long, long over due--but when it comes, well, it will surely be epic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 11, 2022, 01:44:18 PM

As I said. It was published in June 2020. Is it possible it didnt have all the data for the summer 2020 yet? Is it possible it WAS published to highlight that whatever leftwing violence that happened, it was to remind us that this have been after period of rising rightwing violence?

But its true that whatever data happened during and after 2020 should be added. You might not like the addition of january 6th though..

From the report itself they were well aware of the George Floyd riots (sorry "protests") at the time of publication:
"Extremists from all sides flooded social media
with disinformation, conspiracy theories, and incitements
to violence in response to the protests following the death
of George Floyd, swamping Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, and
other platforms"


but the only reference about this that they cite is an article written by New York Times about the "misinformation".


 See, for example, Davey Alba, “Misinformation About George Floyd Protests
Surges on Social Media,” New York Times, June 2, 2020, https://www.nytimes.
com/2020/06/01/technology/george-floyd-misinformation-online.html.


They also describe why they chose the given time period and the goal of the study:

This time period was selected in order to provide context on the history of domestic
terrorism in the United States in recent decades, and in particular to allow analysis of how
the current right-wing threat compares to the last major wave of right-wing violence in
the 1990s.

This sounds highly biased against right-wing extremism, and largely overlooking left-wing (this can also be seen in their choice of sources in the methodology, where several sources for anti-semitism etc are given, but relatively few looking into leftist terrorism)

QED
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 11, 2022, 02:12:58 PM
How many incidents of left wing terrorism like this one have been since well before 2016?

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 11, 2022, 02:58:18 PM
How many incidents of left wing terrorism like this one have been since well before 2016?



Fuhgeddaboudism:
https://spectator.org/capitol-riot-fuhgeddaboudism
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on April 11, 2022, 05:28:13 PM
How many people died during January 6th protest? The only violent death was a protestor being shot unjustly so unless you count harsh language as violence…wait lefties usually do

By definition violence from Police must be Right wing.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on April 11, 2022, 05:33:05 PM
As I said. It was published in June 2020. Is it possible it didnt have all the data for the summer 2020 yet? Is it possible it WAS published to highlight that whatever leftwing violence that happened, it was to remind us that this have been after period of rising rightwing violence?

But its true that whatever data happened during and after 2020 should be added. You might not like the addition of january 6th though..

Even jkim would not present data for 2020 that was published in June 2020.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Spinachcat on April 11, 2022, 11:10:37 PM
Woke is a death spiral, thus has no corners. It's just a continuous and accelerating slide downward into oblivion.

There is only one way to "turn the corner on woke": mass execution of the enemy. Anything less than that and the degenerates destroy America.

However, this lesson will be realized when it's far too late.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 12, 2022, 12:27:06 AM
Woke is a death spiral, thus has no corners. It's just a continuous and accelerating slide downward into oblivion.

There is only one way to "turn the corner on woke": mass execution of the enemy. Anything less than that and the degenerates destroy America.

However, this lesson will be realized when it's far too late.

"Mass murder or we're all doomed". What's the point of posts like this? Trying to prove that you're worse than any woke idiot? I honestly don't get it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Daztur on April 12, 2022, 02:18:46 AM
Greetings!

Oh, Geesus. All the Left-Wing pussy bitches that cry sanctimoniously about "January 6th!" can shove a plunger in their fucking asses. The Left-Wing cunts should get together and demand that all of the hordes of ANTIFA and BLM thugs be fucking hunted down and strung the fuck up--all of those very real riots--murdering dozens of people, beating people, looting, burning, and causing BILLIONS of dollars in damages--is far more real and important.

The January 6th protest was a fucking picnic by comparison.

But we know that the Left supported ANTIFA and BLM--and the fucking Marxist bitches STILL DO.

Fucking Leftist cunts don't know what a real right-wing riot is. Just imagine groups of right-wing groups ruthlessly hunting down sobbing Leftists all over the country, and curb-stomping the shit out of them. Dragging the fucking Marxists out of their rat-nest homes and making them swing from nearby trees--everywhere. Every time Leftists get togther to "Protest"--they are savagely raked by sniper fire. Heavily armed gangs swarm them as the Leftist rats attempt to flee, and beat them into jello with lead pipes. Rip their fucking tongues out. Whaa! Whaa!

THAT would be something for the Leftist cunts to worry about.

January 6th? That was fucking nothing. A tragedy that a veteran--and a patriot--unarmed by the way--was murdered by a Capitol Police Officer. No crying about "Police Brutality!" there, huh? Fucking lying goddamned rats. No worries though. More and more Americans see through the fucking Marxist propaganda campaign so loved by the Leftist rats, and are turning against the Leftist fucking hordes.

Every dog has their day, so the old saying goes. The savage dog day against the Leftists in this country and around the world is long, long over due--but when it comes, well, it will surely be epic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

So, how many hours a day do you spend masturbating over the Turner Diaries?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 12, 2022, 05:27:10 AM
Greetings!

Oh, Geesus. All the Left-Wing pussy bitches that cry sanctimoniously about "January 6th!" can shove a plunger in their fucking asses. The Left-Wing cunts should get together and demand that all of the hordes of ANTIFA and BLM thugs be fucking hunted down and strung the fuck up--all of those very real riots--murdering dozens of people, beating people, looting, burning, and causing BILLIONS of dollars in damages--is far more real and important.

The January 6th protest was a fucking picnic by comparison.

But we know that the Left supported ANTIFA and BLM--and the fucking Marxist bitches STILL DO.

Fucking Leftist cunts don't know what a real right-wing riot is. Just imagine groups of right-wing groups ruthlessly hunting down sobbing Leftists all over the country, and curb-stomping the shit out of them. Dragging the fucking Marxists out of their rat-nest homes and making them swing from nearby trees--everywhere. Every time Leftists get togther to "Protest"--they are savagely raked by sniper fire. Heavily armed gangs swarm them as the Leftist rats attempt to flee, and beat them into jello with lead pipes. Rip their fucking tongues out. Whaa! Whaa!

THAT would be something for the Leftist cunts to worry about.

January 6th? That was fucking nothing. A tragedy that a veteran--and a patriot--unarmed by the way--was murdered by a Capitol Police Officer. No crying about "Police Brutality!" there, huh? Fucking lying goddamned rats. No worries though. More and more Americans see through the fucking Marxist propaganda campaign so loved by the Leftist rats, and are turning against the Leftist fucking hordes.

Every dog has their day, so the old saying goes. The savage dog day against the Leftists in this country and around the world is long, long over due--but when it comes, well, it will surely be epic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

So, how many hours a day do you spend masturbating over the Turner Diaries?

Greetings!

None. What the fuck does the "Turner Diaries" have to do with the Leftists lying about the January 6th protest and soft-peddling--and enthusiastically supporting--ANTIFA and BLM?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 23, 2022, 03:57:47 AM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 23, 2022, 04:09:44 AM
Greetings!

Oh, Geesus. All the Left-Wing pussy bitches that cry sanctimoniously about "January 6th!" can shove a plunger in their fucking asses. The Left-Wing cunts should get together and demand that all of the hordes of ANTIFA and BLM thugs be fucking hunted down and strung the fuck up--all of those very real riots--murdering dozens of people, beating people, looting, burning, and causing BILLIONS of dollars in damages--is far more real and important.

The January 6th protest was a fucking picnic by comparison.

But we know that the Left supported ANTIFA and BLM--and the fucking Marxist bitches STILL DO.

Fucking Leftist cunts don't know what a real right-wing riot is. Just imagine groups of right-wing groups ruthlessly hunting down sobbing Leftists all over the country, and curb-stomping the shit out of them. Dragging the fucking Marxists out of their rat-nest homes and making them swing from nearby trees--everywhere. Every time Leftists get togther to "Protest"--they are savagely raked by sniper fire. Heavily armed gangs swarm them as the Leftist rats attempt to flee, and beat them into jello with lead pipes. Rip their fucking tongues out. Whaa! Whaa!

THAT would be something for the Leftist cunts to worry about.

January 6th? That was fucking nothing. A tragedy that a veteran--and a patriot--unarmed by the way--was murdered by a Capitol Police Officer. No crying about "Police Brutality!" there, huh? Fucking lying goddamned rats. No worries though. More and more Americans see through the fucking Marxist propaganda campaign so loved by the Leftist rats, and are turning against the Leftist fucking hordes.

Every dog has their day, so the old saying goes. The savage dog day against the Leftists in this country and around the world is long, long over due--but when it comes, well, it will surely be epic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Lol. I called you a blow hard in jest. But I think I was right!

Do you actually believe this? WTF?  I think you're a troll and you are just playing. But if you are for real, then I think you need help. There are resources for veterans who need help. I get it. One of my best friends served multiple tours in Iraq and tours at Guantanamo Bay. I get what that does to a person. I spend my Memorial Days hanging out with him just to be there for him. I was always there to watch over and just support him.

Dude, the military supports your so-called leftists more than you think.

Biut wow you are actually promoting violence against 'leftists'. Wow. Yeah ok. You're a fucking troll or  you need actual real help (and please get help.... please find therapy that can help you).
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 23, 2022, 09:14:31 AM
Greetings!

Oh, Geesus. All the Left-Wing pussy bitches that cry sanctimoniously about "January 6th!" can shove a plunger in their fucking asses. The Left-Wing cunts should get together and demand that all of the hordes of ANTIFA and BLM thugs be fucking hunted down and strung the fuck up--all of those very real riots--murdering dozens of people, beating people, looting, burning, and causing BILLIONS of dollars in damages--is far more real and important.

The January 6th protest was a fucking picnic by comparison.

But we know that the Left supported ANTIFA and BLM--and the fucking Marxist bitches STILL DO.

Fucking Leftist cunts don't know what a real right-wing riot is. Just imagine groups of right-wing groups ruthlessly hunting down sobbing Leftists all over the country, and curb-stomping the shit out of them. Dragging the fucking Marxists out of their rat-nest homes and making them swing from nearby trees--everywhere. Every time Leftists get togther to "Protest"--they are savagely raked by sniper fire. Heavily armed gangs swarm them as the Leftist rats attempt to flee, and beat them into jello with lead pipes. Rip their fucking tongues out. Whaa! Whaa!

THAT would be something for the Leftist cunts to worry about.

January 6th? That was fucking nothing. A tragedy that a veteran--and a patriot--unarmed by the way--was murdered by a Capitol Police Officer. No crying about "Police Brutality!" there, huh? Fucking lying goddamned rats. No worries though. More and more Americans see through the fucking Marxist propaganda campaign so loved by the Leftist rats, and are turning against the Leftist fucking hordes.

Every dog has their day, so the old saying goes. The savage dog day against the Leftists in this country and around the world is long, long over due--but when it comes, well, it will surely be epic.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Lol. I called you a blow hard in jest. But I think I was right!

Do you actually believe this? WTF?  I think you're a troll and you are just playing. But if you are for real, then I think you need help. There are resources for veterans who need help. I get it. One of my best friends served multiple tours in Iraq and tours at Guantanamo Bay. I get what that does to a person. I spend my Memorial Days hanging out with him just to be there for him. I was always there to watch over and just support him.

Dude, the military supports your so-called leftists more than you think.

Biut wow you are actually promoting violence against 'leftists'. Wow. Yeah ok. You're a fucking troll or  you need actual real help (and please get help.... please find therapy that can help you).

Greetings!

*Laughing* Oh my Gawd! "Promoting violence against Leftists!"

Let the Leftists drink *Napalm*.

Back to the point--you must have been sleeping under a rock during the BLM and ANTIFA riots that went on. Lots of violence going on there. I guess violence is only bad when someone else decides it's time to be violent, heh? But good, sweet Leftists can choose to be violent whenever they want. As to the sobbing about "January 6th"--I made the comparison about the Leftists reaction to the BLM riots--they cheered--and January 6th protest. If right-wing gangs were out killing and systematically hunting Leftists down and beating them into bags of jello, THAT would be something for Leftists to worry about. The January 6th protest was nothing compared to that kind of scenario, or the BLM and ANTIFA rioting.

Geesus. So many Leftists can't fucking read and comprehend a fucking thing anymore. Thank your local school district for providing you with such a pathetic and fake education.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on April 23, 2022, 11:48:02 AM
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?
That's good.  There should be no opposition to the banning of it then. 

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 23, 2022, 12:06:08 PM
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?
That's good.  There should be no opposition to the banning of it then.
Beat me to it. Well played.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 23, 2022, 12:13:34 PM
I gotta say, the absolute screaming over Florida stripping Disney of their Super Speshul Status has been amazing.

You'd think DeSantis was marching Florida National Guard in to take every Disney employee they could find into custody.

Oh, there's some spite in this. Disney decided to take one step too far in their PR and political games, and now the Florida legislature has taken their toy away. I would like to note this went through at positively warp speed for legislation -- even I was surprised.

There's going to be repercussions. Chapek will probably be ousted. Expect fiduciary duty complaints and legal action as well (Disney stock has staggered badly of late, down about 30 percent). And despite what some idiots have been babbling, they won't be 'pulling up stakes and leaving Florida'. They can't -- not without eating huge losses on TOP of the debt incurred from buying things like Lucasfilms and Marvel.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2022, 01:35:34 PM
I gotta say, the absolute screaming over Florida stripping Disney of their Super Speshul Status has been amazing.

You'd think DeSantis was marching Florida National Guard in to take every Disney employee they could find into custody.


And when we say “screaming” we mean it literally.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuRW7-R-gfw


Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 01:58:49 PM
I gotta say, the absolute screaming over Florida stripping Disney of their Super Speshul Status has been amazing.

You'd think DeSantis was marching Florida National Guard in to take every Disney employee they could find into custody.


And when we say “screaming” we mean it literally.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuRW7-R-gfw

I might be wrong but the screaming was during the vote to strip the rat of it's privileges but was about the gerrymandering of several districts which changes things so come next elections some leftist legislators will find themselves without enough votes.

This off course was deemed racist because off course it was.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on April 23, 2022, 04:02:39 PM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?

So why get so upset if CRT is banned from children’s schools?

After all it was never there in the first place
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 23, 2022, 05:41:51 PM
  If you have kids in public school, I can assure you woke is definitely NOT turning a corner.   There is some outrage shown on TV with parents ranting at board meetings, but I can tell you from where I am how that goes.  The uproar starts, some "conservative" runs their mouth about how we should not have CRT, MLK had a dream, yadda yadda yadda.  No one with a smidge of authority has the stones to call the shit what it is, anti white programming.  Add in the people who are for what they thing it is, are easily coerced into thinking it is something it is not and are led by Shitbirds who feel "Define CRT so we can address the concern" when it is nebulous as hell, authored by commies, and any critique of it is used to subtly (or in many places not so subtly) start tossing the R word for opposing it. 

    A corner might get turned, but I can honestly say the internet weirdos radicals have suddenly started to influence policy in local schools all over the country.  So time will tell.
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?

So why get so upset if CRT is banned from children’s schools?

After all it was never there in the first place

Greetings!

*LAUGHING* Yeah, the Leftist morons are too stupid to comprehend the disconnect between them when you point out that if what they say is true--that CRT isn't being taught and pumped into our schools everywhere--then look at the absolute shrieking fits and sobbing they go through when parents get a school or schoolboard to ban teaching of CRT.

Fucking morons!

Great stuff, Shasarak!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 23, 2022, 06:14:22 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on April 23, 2022, 06:21:17 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.

All the theories derived from CRT are the source of "woke" and "everything woke turns to shit".

If anyone is really interested there is a 5 part many hour lecture series on CRT by James Lindsay.
Strating here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BED_D6Hc6TU
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 23, 2022, 10:04:25 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2022, 10:16:22 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

Agreed.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 23, 2022, 11:40:53 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

Greetings!

Damn right, Pat!

I've seen interviews and videos of TEACHERS admitting that they do, in fact, teach CRT, and proudly insist they will continue to do so. THEN, there are the examples of curriculum materials that parents have gotten, and which have shared what is being taught in colleges, high schools, and grade schools.

CRT.

Liberal cunts that insist on denying this truth are like you said, liars.

I think they are insidious baboons eagerly giggling at the thought of corrupting our society even more with their bullshit.

I can think of a few things that would get them set up straight, and enlighten them. ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on April 24, 2022, 02:42:28 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

That’s not fair, they could just be an idiot.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 24, 2022, 04:25:12 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

That’s not fair, they could just be an idiot.
I'll defer to your expertise on the subject.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 25, 2022, 04:24:11 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact. It makes perfect sense that investigating and understanding how systemic racism has poisoned our society and ruined the lives of millions of people, it can show that we can improve as a society to be more equitable and fair to everyone. At least in the United States the promise was that all citizens are equal under the law. It is clear throughout history that this promise has not been kept. Learning how it has been failed and how we can remedy and improve this is the hallmark of a strong society.

I strongly believe that this starts with educating our children the history of our nations. Good and bad. Teach the real history and the real events that have transpired to create what we have now. Let children understand and make conclusions for themselves based on the facts. It is putting our trust in the hands of our children to understand and make their own choices having the full knowledge of the past. Maybe that scares you. I don't know. Kids are smarter and more resilient and braver than you give them credit for. I'd prefer they have the real story than try to insult their intelligence with some candy flavored soft fiction.

For example... in the United States, a large number of our founding fathers were slave owners. When they talk about freedom, it is under that context. That should be taught. That our founding fathers were fighting for their freedoms but were also flawed and participated in the evil of slavery. That they should be not glorified as beyond reproach but instead studied and criticized for the good and the evil things they have done. We should teach where our founding fathers have failed and how their ideals can be improved on and adapted in our modern age. The founding fathers of the US were people who owned the lives of others and that needs to be understood in equal measure to the good they have done.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 25, 2022, 07:01:13 AM
 Use the word equitable in a sentence tells me you are a liar with an agenda, or brainless.  Hard pass on the "CRT influenced" education you propose.  Set a bar, people meet the standard or do not.  Special rules and laws treating people differently specifically due to race in writing need to go away.  Period.  Once you do that, I will give some consideration to taking anyone using bullshit language like "equitable" seriously.  Until then, I know you are just a liar with an agenda. 
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Skullking on April 25, 2022, 07:57:37 AM

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.

And many more (including me) are not, but I suppose you don't believe in parents having any rights over what their children are taught (or rather indoctrinated), or in democracy, hence why you are playing semantic games over the word 'taught' when you know damn well what other posters mean.

In other words you are a bad actor with an agenda and not worth any more of my, or anyone else's time.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 08:17:51 AM

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.

And many more (including me) are not, but I suppose you don't believe in parents having any rights over what their children are taught (or rather indoctrinated), or in democracy, hence why you are playing semantic games over the word 'taught' when you know damn well what other posters mean.

In other words you are a bad actor with an agenda and not worth any more of my, or anyone else's time.

Only in so far as the children are being indoctrinated in ways the cock sucking commie agrees with.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 25, 2022, 02:33:46 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 25, 2022, 03:20:51 PM
Elon Musk just bought Twitter.

This is going to be fun.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 03:45:06 PM
Elon Musk just bought Twitter.

This is going to be fun.

Unless he fires all the trust and safety, HR, DIE cult people I doubt ANYTHING will change. But I'm stocking on popcorn.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 25, 2022, 03:45:44 PM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!

Good catch there Pat.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Aglondir on April 25, 2022, 06:07:02 PM
IT IS FINISHED: Twitter Formally Accepts Elon Musk's Takeover Bid
By Jennifer Oliver O'Connell | Apr 25, 2022 3:22 PM ET
https://redstate.com/jenniferoo/2022/04/25/it-is-finished-twitter-formally-accepts-elon-musks-takeover-bid-n555824


Quote
Twitter is reportedly accepting the offer Elon Musk made. We’re about to see a Nov 2016 level freak out from the left.

— Robby Starbuck (@robbystarbuck) April 25, 2022

Quote
🚨INBOX: Twitter announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to be acquired by an entity wholly owned by Elon Musk, for $54.20 per share in cash in a transaction valued at approximately $44 billion.

    — Lauren Peikoff (@laurenpeikoff) April 25, 2022




Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Skullking on April 25, 2022, 07:38:15 PM
Elon Musk just bought Twitter.

This is going to be fun.
Huzzah!
Might actually start bothering with it :)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jeff37923 on April 25, 2022, 07:53:34 PM
IT IS FINISHED: Twitter Formally Accepts Elon Musk's Takeover Bid
By Jennifer Oliver O'Connell | Apr 25, 2022 3:22 PM ET
https://redstate.com/jenniferoo/2022/04/25/it-is-finished-twitter-formally-accepts-elon-musks-takeover-bid-n555824


Quote
Twitter is reportedly accepting the offer Elon Musk made. We’re about to see a Nov 2016 level freak out from the left.

— Robby Starbuck (@robbystarbuck) April 25, 2022

Quote
🚨INBOX: Twitter announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to be acquired by an entity wholly owned by Elon Musk, for $54.20 per share in cash in a transaction valued at approximately $44 billion.

    — Lauren Peikoff (@laurenpeikoff) April 25, 2022

...
(https://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/9/8215/Pinneedlepoints_in_DASDT_by_Eddi_.jpg)
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: HappyDaze on April 25, 2022, 08:26:50 PM
Elon Musk just bought Twitter.

This is going to be fun.
This changes... Nothing whatsoever for me. Never used Twitter, never will.

But hey, more mean tweets coming soon, right?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ocule on April 26, 2022, 12:56:56 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 02:19:00 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.




Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 02:21:48 AM

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.

And many more (including me) are not, but I suppose you don't believe in parents having any rights over what their children are taught (or rather indoctrinated), or in democracy, hence why you are playing semantic games over the word 'taught' when you know damn well what other posters mean.

In other words you are a bad actor with an agenda and not worth any more of my, or anyone else's time.

Only in so far as the children are being indoctrinated in ways the cock sucking commie agrees with.

Ok. Give me an example of an actual instance of a teacher who is in a same sex relationship or who themselves are trans that engaged in actually indoctrinating a child into becoming trans or homosexual.

Give me an actual real world instance where this actually happened. Give me an example of how a previously cis gendered student became gay or trans as a direct result of the actions of a teacher who they themselves were gay or trans?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 02:39:25 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 02:53:23 AM

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.

And many more (including me) are not, but I suppose you don't believe in parents having any rights over what their children are taught (or rather indoctrinated), or in democracy, hence why you are playing semantic games over the word 'taught' when you know damn well what other posters mean.

In other words you are a bad actor with an agenda and not worth any more of my, or anyone else's time.

Only in so far as the children are being indoctrinated in ways the cock sucking commie agrees with.

Ok. Give me an example of an actual instance of a teacher who is in a same sex relationship or who themselves are trans that engaged in actually indoctrinating a child into becoming trans or homosexual.

Give me an actual real world instance where this actually happened. Give me an example of how a previously cis gendered student became gay or trans as a direct result of the actions of a teacher who they themselves were gay or trans?

LOL, are you sure this is the right discussion?

We're talking about CRT and INDOCTRINATING children into your cult.

Something you first said wasn't happening and then said it was a good thing it was happening.

So, given that we all agree it's happening, the only remaining argument is that you believe that making children racists is a good thing while we think that making children judge in the basis of character and not skin tone is a good thing.

And, given that you ALREADY agreed it was happening go fuck yourself with demands of any evidence of something you agreed was happening.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 02:55:24 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

Which is the only speech that needs protection dumbass.

Why is it that all cock sucking commies think THAT "argument" is going to convince anyone but other smoothbrains from their cult?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 02:59:08 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 03:01:06 AM

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.

And many more (including me) are not, but I suppose you don't believe in parents having any rights over what their children are taught (or rather indoctrinated), or in democracy, hence why you are playing semantic games over the word 'taught' when you know damn well what other posters mean.

In other words you are a bad actor with an agenda and not worth any more of my, or anyone else's time.

Only in so far as the children are being indoctrinated in ways the cock sucking commie agrees with.

Ok. Give me an example of an actual instance of a teacher who is in a same sex relationship or who themselves are trans that engaged in actually indoctrinating a child into becoming trans or homosexual.

Give me an actual real world instance where this actually happened. Give me an example of how a previously cis gendered student became gay or trans as a direct result of the actions of a teacher who they themselves were gay or trans?

LOL, are you sure this is the right discussion?

We're talking about CRT and INDOCTRINATING children into your cult.

Something you first said wasn't happening and then said it was a good thing it was happening.

So, given that we all agree it's happening, the only remaining argument is that you believe that making children racists is a good thing while we think that making children judge in the basis of character and not skin tone is a good thing.

And, given that you ALREADY agreed it was happening go fuck yourself with demands of any evidence of something you agreed was happening.

You failed to actually answer my question.

I asked give me an instance where a teacher in a same sex relationship or a trans teacher has through their direct actions converted a cis gender student into being homosexual or trans. And this is what you come back with. I'm asking for actual evidence.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 03:09:50 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.



You are asking me about laws, rules or policies that claim what, exactly? The discrimination against minorities? Ok...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20the,of%20race%20or%20national%20origin.

https://www.aclu.org/other/drug-war-new-jim-crow

https://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YmeaY_PMIiw

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/

Edited because maybe I was too snarky. I'm arguing in good faith here. You asked for examples of policies, and I'm providing them. I'm just asking you to do the same.


Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 03:21:53 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.



You are asking me about laws, rules or policies that claim what, exactly? The discrimination against minorities? Lol, fine where do I begin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20the,of%20race%20or%20national%20origin.

https://www.aclu.org/other/drug-war-new-jim-crow

https://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YmeaY_PMIiw

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/

Lol. do you want more? You have yet to provide a single link to evidence of the question I asked you.

Laws, rules and policies that aren't in use anymore...

Trafic stops... That have been proven not to be because of racism but because some are prone to speeding...

Marijuana arrests... You mean to tell me that if someone smokes it in their home is less likelly to get arrested? wow!

You mean to tell me that banks charge you more in interest rates if you're poor? WOW!

Who destroyed Black Wall Street? Democrats
Who instituted Jim Crow? Democrats
Who was behind the KKK? Democrats
Who was the dear mentor of $hillary?
Who demanded the increase in the penalty for crack cocaine? Black activists.

I think you're barking at the wrong tree.

He who has eyes to see and ears to hear...

It has been proven by your self that you're a bad faith actor.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 03:26:42 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

Which is the only speech that needs protection dumbass.

Why is it that all cock sucking commies think THAT "argument" is going to convince anyone but other smoothbrains from their cult?

Well fair enough. If you want free speech and you are acting in actual good faith then sure. Let anyone who proposes speech have that speech be contextualized by the people and let them decide its value.

But if you want to use your free speech to incite aggression, imply falsehoods, or engage in manipulations against an other... that is no longer free speech that is an attack on the well being of another person. This is why we have libel laws and defamation laws. The right to free speech does not give you the right to use your speech to harm others.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 26, 2022, 03:28:58 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.



You are asking me about laws, rules or policies that claim what, exactly? The discrimination against minorities? Lol, fine where do I begin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20the,of%20race%20or%20national%20origin.

https://www.aclu.org/other/drug-war-new-jim-crow

https://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YmeaY_PMIiw

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/

Lol. do you want more? You have yet to provide a single link to evidence of the question I asked you.

Laws, rules and policies that aren't in use anymore...

Trafic stops... That have been proven not to be because of racism but because some are prone to speeding...

Marijuana arrests... You mean to tell me that if someone smokes it in their home is less likelly to get arrested? wow!

You mean to tell me that banks charge you more in interest rates if you're poor? WOW!

Who destroyed Black Wall Street? Democrats
Who instituted Jim Crow? Democrats
Who was behind the KKK? Democrats
Who was the dear mentor of $hillary?
Who demanded the increase in the penalty for crack cocaine? Black activists.

I think you're barking at the wrong tree.

He who has eyes to see and ears to hear...

It has been proven by your self that you're a bad faith actor.
You can type whatever you want. But you still haven't provided any actual evidence to support anything you say. You also still haven't responded with any evidence based on the question I asked you.

Your response is just words typed by you. With no actual backing or support. And lol... you can cite dixie democrats but not the same party that exists today, just like the republican party from the past is not the same as it is today. But you can just use the label out of context to try to prove your point (without any actual links or citations to support your claims).

For example:

https://library.law.howard.edu/civilrightshistory/blackrights/jimcrow

It is important to remember that the Democrats and Republicans of the late 1800s were very different parties from their current iterations. Republicans in the time of the Civil War and directly after were literally the party of Lincoln and anathema to the South. As white, Southern Democrats took over legislatures in the former Confederate states, they began passing more restrictive voter registration and electoral laws, as well as passing legislation to segregate blacks and whites.



I'm sorry but I held up my end of your question, you haven't held up yours. If you don't want to engage with me in good faith, just say so. But please stop or actually provide citations. If you provide a citation from a credible source, I'll read it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 06:45:47 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

Which is the only speech that needs protection dumbass.

Why is it that all cock sucking commies think THAT "argument" is going to convince anyone but other smoothbrains from their cult?

Well fair enough. If you want free speech and you are acting in actual good faith then sure. Let anyone who proposes speech have that speech be contextualized by the people and let them decide its value.

But if you want to use your free speech to incite aggression, imply falsehoods, or engage in manipulations against an other... that is no longer free speech that is an attack on the well being of another person. This is why we have libel laws and defamation laws. The right to free speech does not give you the right to use your speech to harm others.

All of which you need to prove.

You have the right not to listen/read/etc to X. You don't have the right to prevent others from listening/reading/etc to X. If you claim that X has commited a crime prove it.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 26, 2022, 06:52:10 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.



You are asking me about laws, rules or policies that claim what, exactly? The discrimination against minorities? Lol, fine where do I begin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20the,of%20race%20or%20national%20origin.

https://www.aclu.org/other/drug-war-new-jim-crow

https://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YmeaY_PMIiw

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/

Lol. do you want more? You have yet to provide a single link to evidence of the question I asked you.

Laws, rules and policies that aren't in use anymore...

Trafic stops... That have been proven not to be because of racism but because some are prone to speeding...

Marijuana arrests... You mean to tell me that if someone smokes it in their home is less likelly to get arrested? wow!

You mean to tell me that banks charge you more in interest rates if you're poor? WOW!

Who destroyed Black Wall Street? Democrats
Who instituted Jim Crow? Democrats
Who was behind the KKK? Democrats
Who was the dear mentor of $hillary?
Who demanded the increase in the penalty for crack cocaine? Black activists.

I think you're barking at the wrong tree.

He who has eyes to see and ears to hear...

It has been proven by your self that you're a bad faith actor.
You can type whatever you want. But you still haven't provided any actual evidence to support anything you say. You also still haven't responded with any evidence based on the question I asked you.

Your response is just words typed by you. With no actual backing or support. And lol... you can cite dixie democrats but not the same party that exists today, just like the republican party from the past is not the same as it is today. But you can just use the label out of context to try to prove your point (without any actual links or citations to support your claims).

For example:

https://library.law.howard.edu/civilrightshistory/blackrights/jimcrow

It is important to remember that the Democrats and Republicans of the late 1800s were very different parties from their current iterations. Republicans in the time of the Civil War and directly after were literally the party of Lincoln and anathema to the South. As white, Southern Democrats took over legislatures in the former Confederate states, they began passing more restrictive voter registration and electoral laws, as well as passing legislation to segregate blacks and whites.



I'm sorry but I held up my end of your question, you haven't held up yours. If you don't want to engage with me in good faith, just say so. But please stop or actually provide citations. If you provide a citation from a credible source, I'll read it.

Appeal to authority
So jimcrow, red linning are in effect now? Fuck off smooth brain.

Yes, the Democrats back then are sooooooooo different from the modern ones... Who was the now late dear mentor of Shillary Clinton?

You have nothing, at best you can show laws no longer in place and some disparities and cry "Muh structural raycismism!" Backing said nothing with some hyperlinks does nothing to convince anyone not a smoothbrain or in your cult.

I provided several links in the thread where that discussion has been taking place. Post deleted and not by me. But go check The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters, many interesting videos and with sources. Now fuck off.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 26, 2022, 07:02:45 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.
I'm not failing to make any distinction. I'm pointing out you're very dishonest because you used one definition to attack people you don't like, and then in the very next sentence you switched definitions to defend the group you do like.

You admit that yes, they're teaching the principles of CRT in elementary schools. But you're trying to dismiss the criticism that they're teaching the principles of CRT in elementary schools because they shorten that to "CRT" instead of the "principles of CRT". You clearly know what they're saying, because you've literally described it. If you were honest, you could note or even correct the slight difference in terminology, but you'd have to accept the point they're making, and then try to refute it by arguing that it's actually good. Instead, you're just denying its happening. Which is vile behavior.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 26, 2022, 07:23:54 AM
As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.
The idea that only direct actions by the government are protected by the first amendment is absurd. The Biden administration was literally telling the social media companies who they should ban, at the same time they were threatening the social media companies with regulation.

"By placing discretion in the hands of an official to grant or deny a license, such a statute creates a threat of censorship that by its very existence chills free speech."
- Harry A. Blackmun, Supreme Court Justice

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.
Intellectuals have long pointed out that defending free speech inherently involves defending people with ideas you disagree with, or even find abominable:

"One of the problems with defending free speech is you often have to defend people that you find to be outrageous and unpleasant and disgusting."
- Salman Rushdie

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."
- H.L. Mencken

... but you've twisted that into saying the people who have the the courage and principles to stand against evil, like Rushdie and Mencken, are the real monsters.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 26, 2022, 07:30:35 AM
But if you want to use your free speech to incite aggression, imply falsehoods, or engage in manipulations against an other... that is no longer free speech that is an attack on the well being of another person. This is why we have libel laws and defamation laws. The right to free speech does not give you the right to use your speech to harm others.
If you think free speech ends if you "imply falsehoods, or engage in manipulations against an other", you must never have had a romantic or family relationship, worked in an office, or even had a casual friendship. You also don't believe in free speech. In fact, you're an ardent enemy of the basic principle.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on April 26, 2022, 07:43:42 AM
Elon Musk just bought Twitter.

This is going to be fun.
This changes... Nothing whatsoever for me. Never used Twitter, never will.

But hey, more mean tweets coming soon, right?

No one knows what’s the deal here yet. There’s a big, big difference between free speech and the harassment of others. Elon has the chance to turn twitter into something new and unique.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 08:05:02 AM
Shaun King, aka Talcum X, the white guy cosplaying as a black guy, deleted his Twitter account.

This is a net positive.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 26, 2022, 08:11:23 AM
Shaun King, aka Talcum X, the white guy cosplaying as a black guy, deleted his Twitter account.

This is a net positive.
A white guy is upset that an African American is moving in, and fled? That's a classic example of white flight.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Eirikrautha on April 26, 2022, 10:15:44 AM
Shaun King, aka Talcum X, the white guy cosplaying as a black guy, deleted his Twitter account.

This is a net positive.
A white guy is upset that an African American is moving in, and fled? That's a classic example of white flight.

Ok, I admit it.  I LOLed.  And everyone around me stared.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 26, 2022, 10:31:06 AM
  I have learned most laws against things that are illegal, like murder, are racist.   It seems some people will be disproportionately affected by enforcing the law.  Thus, enforcing laws is racist.  If enforcing law is racist, maybe the law is racist?    It is an interesting world to live in.  For instance a few decades ago a warring drug trade  caused high violent crime and caused quite a bit of collateral damage across the nation.  People in minority neighborhoods demanded law makers and enforcers do something about it.  They made a bill to punish harshly, people involved in drugs and violence (attaching extra time for getting caught with drugs and guns, and smashing people who had drugs that were tied to the massive violent crime wave).  Well, the bill worked and violence was brought back down across the nation.  Now because one group of people that was disproportionately involved in the violent drug wars had to go to prison at a rate that showed its disproportionate involvement, the bill is RACIST. 

   I think there may be some realities or facts that are just racist if these are the metrics we are going to use going forwards.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 28, 2022, 01:05:01 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.



You are asking me about laws, rules or policies that claim what, exactly? The discrimination against minorities? Lol, fine where do I begin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20the,of%20race%20or%20national%20origin.

https://www.aclu.org/other/drug-war-new-jim-crow

https://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YmeaY_PMIiw

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/

Lol. do you want more? You have yet to provide a single link to evidence of the question I asked you.

Laws, rules and policies that aren't in use anymore...

Trafic stops... That have been proven not to be because of racism but because some are prone to speeding...

Marijuana arrests... You mean to tell me that if someone smokes it in their home is less likelly to get arrested? wow!

You mean to tell me that banks charge you more in interest rates if you're poor? WOW!

Who destroyed Black Wall Street? Democrats
Who instituted Jim Crow? Democrats
Who was behind the KKK? Democrats
Who was the dear mentor of $hillary?
Who demanded the increase in the penalty for crack cocaine? Black activists.

I think you're barking at the wrong tree.

He who has eyes to see and ears to hear...

It has been proven by your self that you're a bad faith actor.
You can type whatever you want. But you still haven't provided any actual evidence to support anything you say. You also still haven't responded with any evidence based on the question I asked you.

Your response is just words typed by you. With no actual backing or support. And lol... you can cite dixie democrats but not the same party that exists today, just like the republican party from the past is not the same as it is today. But you can just use the label out of context to try to prove your point (without any actual links or citations to support your claims).

For example:

https://library.law.howard.edu/civilrightshistory/blackrights/jimcrow

It is important to remember that the Democrats and Republicans of the late 1800s were very different parties from their current iterations. Republicans in the time of the Civil War and directly after were literally the party of Lincoln and anathema to the South. As white, Southern Democrats took over legislatures in the former Confederate states, they began passing more restrictive voter registration and electoral laws, as well as passing legislation to segregate blacks and whites.



I'm sorry but I held up my end of your question, you haven't held up yours. If you don't want to engage with me in good faith, just say so. But please stop or actually provide citations. If you provide a citation from a credible source, I'll read it.

Appeal to authority
So jimcrow, red linning are in effect now? Fuck off smooth brain.

Yes, the Democrats back then are sooooooooo different from the modern ones... Who was the now late dear mentor of Shillary Clinton?

You have nothing, at best you can show laws no longer in place and some disparities and cry "Muh structural raycismism!" Backing said nothing with some hyperlinks does nothing to convince anyone not a smoothbrain or in your cult.

I provided several links in the thread where that discussion has been taking place. Post deleted and not by me. But go check The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters, many interesting videos and with sources. Now fuck off.
Lol. I made no  such appeal just provided evidence on how jim crow laws and red lining is an example of systemic racism. And yes redlining still happens now.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-modern-day-redlining-20180215-story.html

Not to mention the long term impacts of redlining that have prevented minorities from developing the same level of generational wealth that whites have.

I've asked for anything correllating your claims but get no actual evidence to support them. And when you do say you stated any such evidence, the post was deleted? Then you tell me to go to some right wing podcast?

I simply asked for credible sources. It's fine if you won't or can't provide any. I'm pretty much good with no longer needing to continue this conversation


Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 01:30:07 AM
  No one thinks critical race theory is taught in schools.  HOWEVER, many of the conclusions reached from critical race theory are in fact taught, or attempts at applying these things are all over the place.  It is playing a semantic game to say there is no critical race theory in the sense of there being some course that teaches such.   The influence of critical race theory (of which MANY professors have a great deal of contact with, the people indoctrinating/training teachers,  and I suspect a rather large portion of the professor population agrees with) is there for all to see.  I honestly feel it was the most convenient name to call it, and one thing people get scared about is when people start naming an enemy.  If something can not have a name, well it can not be, right?  So again we get endless word games.
In much fewer words, Critical Race Theory is being taught in schools.

Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

CRT is not taught in schools below graduate level law school. If you say it is you are a liar.
Oh look, a liar!

As far as CRT's influence on culture and learning. I am glad that it has made an impact.
Oh look, you admit you're a liar!
Well, you are failing to make a distinction between two different concepts.

CRT is a theory on examining systemic racism and how it has impacted the lives of people. The application and the understanding that results from this examination and applying it to the real world is a different thing. But if you look at right wing media, CRT has become a code word for anything that goes against the concept of the status quo. The idea that everything is fine... which right wing media and those who follow it is likely to believe in since they have actively benefited from things being the status quo.

To promote the idea that maybe how laws and rules and policies have been shaped to support and prop up the wealth and success of whites and to actively suppress and beat down the same of minorities is anathema to the right, since this not only weakens their own supposed achievements but also leads to the means to strengthen the status those they find less than them. They consider everything a zero-sum game and when one who is not them stands to gain, they themselves believe they will lose.

So they lash out.

But it's not a zero-sum game. The success of one certain person is not necessarily at the expense of another. In fact the success of one person may bring on success to others by their actions. This is one of the fundamental concepts of capitalism. One person becomes rich and wealthy and starts a business that creates jobs and opportunities for many others.

Okay smoothbrain, prove it. Provide a law, rule or policy that does what you claim and prove it. I know of only one such policy but I very much doubt it's the one your room temperature IQ is thinking of. Because it goes against your cult's dogma to think like I do.



You are asking me about laws, rules or policies that claim what, exactly? The discrimination against minorities? Lol, fine where do I begin...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20States%2C%20the,of%20race%20or%20national%20origin.

https://www.aclu.org/other/drug-war-new-jim-crow

https://www.financialsamurai.com/mortgage-interest-rates-by-race/

https://norml.org/marijuana/fact-sheets/racial-disparity-in-marijuana-arrests/

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2020/06/racial_disparities_traffic_stops.php#.YmeaY_PMIiw

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/eliminating-black-white-wealth-gap-generational-challenge/

Lol. do you want more? You have yet to provide a single link to evidence of the question I asked you.

Laws, rules and policies that aren't in use anymore...

Trafic stops... That have been proven not to be because of racism but because some are prone to speeding...

Marijuana arrests... You mean to tell me that if someone smokes it in their home is less likelly to get arrested? wow!

You mean to tell me that banks charge you more in interest rates if you're poor? WOW!

Who destroyed Black Wall Street? Democrats
Who instituted Jim Crow? Democrats
Who was behind the KKK? Democrats
Who was the dear mentor of $hillary?
Who demanded the increase in the penalty for crack cocaine? Black activists.

I think you're barking at the wrong tree.

He who has eyes to see and ears to hear...

It has been proven by your self that you're a bad faith actor.
You can type whatever you want. But you still haven't provided any actual evidence to support anything you say. You also still haven't responded with any evidence based on the question I asked you.

Your response is just words typed by you. With no actual backing or support. And lol... you can cite dixie democrats but not the same party that exists today, just like the republican party from the past is not the same as it is today. But you can just use the label out of context to try to prove your point (without any actual links or citations to support your claims).

For example:

https://library.law.howard.edu/civilrightshistory/blackrights/jimcrow

It is important to remember that the Democrats and Republicans of the late 1800s were very different parties from their current iterations. Republicans in the time of the Civil War and directly after were literally the party of Lincoln and anathema to the South. As white, Southern Democrats took over legislatures in the former Confederate states, they began passing more restrictive voter registration and electoral laws, as well as passing legislation to segregate blacks and whites.



I'm sorry but I held up my end of your question, you haven't held up yours. If you don't want to engage with me in good faith, just say so. But please stop or actually provide citations. If you provide a citation from a credible source, I'll read it.

Appeal to authority
So jimcrow, red linning are in effect now? Fuck off smooth brain.

Yes, the Democrats back then are sooooooooo different from the modern ones... Who was the now late dear mentor of Shillary Clinton?

You have nothing, at best you can show laws no longer in place and some disparities and cry "Muh structural raycismism!" Backing said nothing with some hyperlinks does nothing to convince anyone not a smoothbrain or in your cult.

I provided several links in the thread where that discussion has been taking place. Post deleted and not by me. But go check The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters, many interesting videos and with sources. Now fuck off.
Lol. I made no  such appeal just provided evidence on how jim crow laws and red lining is an example of systemic racism. And yes redlining still happens now.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-modern-day-redlining-20180215-story.html

Not to mention the long term impacts of redlining that have prevented minorities from developing the same level of generational wealth that whites have.

I've asked for anything correllating your claims but get no actual evidence to support them. And when you do say you stated any such evidence, the post was deleted? Then you tell me to go to some right wing podcast?

I simply asked for credible sources. It's fine if you won't or can't provide any. I'm pretty much good with no longer needing to continue this conversation

But did they control for credit history? No or it would be mentioned. Color me not shocked they lie with halkftruths, or that you believe everything you read uncritically as long as it confirms your bias.

No, you asked for an impossible standard while ignoring (on purpouse) that grooming is also used to describe indoctrination into an ideology/cult and that not all groomers have to be gay/trans. Because it fits your narrative to pretend otherwise.

So fuck you and your "conversations".
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2022, 03:46:09 AM
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?

So why get so upset if CRT is banned from children’s schools?

After all it was never there in the first place

The laws billed as banning Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools typically don't refer to it by name, but instead have a list of principles which may or may not have overlap with how CRT is defined elsewhere. I started to look into this about a year ago, but I lost interest as like most academic theories, everything was frustratingly vague. For examples of laws, this is the relevant clause in Idaho Bill HB 377,

Quote
No public institution of higher education, school district, or public school, including a public charter school, shall direct or otherwise compel students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the following tenets:
  (i) That any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior;
  (ii) That individuals should be adversely treated on the basis of their sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin; or
  (iii) That individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
(b) No distinction or classification of students shall be made on account of race or color.
(c) No course of instruction or unit of study directing or otherwise compelling students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the tenets identified in paragraph (a) of this subsection shall be used or introduced in any institution of higher education, any school district, or any public school, including a public charter school.

And this is the relevant clause from Tennessee bill HB 580,

Quote
This amendment also prohibits any LEA or public charter school from including or promoting the following concepts as part of a course of instruction or in a curriculum or instructional program, or allowing teachers or other employees of the LEA or public charter school to use supplemental instructional materials that include or promote the following concepts:
(1) One race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex;
(2) An individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, is inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously;
(3) An individual should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of the individual's race or sex;
(4) An individual's moral character is determined by the individual's race or sex;
(5) An individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex;
(6) An individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or another form of psychological distress solely because of the individual's race or sex;
(7) A meritocracy is inherently racist or sexist, or designed by a particular race or sex to oppress members of another race or sex;
(.8.) This state or the United States is fundamentally or irredeemably racist or sexist;
(9) Promoting or advocating the violent overthrow of the United States government;
(10) Promoting division between, or resentment of, a race, sex, religion, creed, nonviolent political affiliation, social class, or class of people; or
(11) Ascribing character traits, values, moral or ethical codes, privileges, or beliefs to a race or sex, or to an individual because of the individual's race or sex.
This amendment does not prohibit an LEA or public charter school from including, as part of a course of instruction or in a curriculum or instructional program, or from allowing teachers or other employees of the LEA or public charter school to use supplemental instructional materials that include:
(1) The history of an ethnic group, as described in textbooks and instructional materials adopted in accordance with present law concerning textbooks and instructional materials;
(2) The impartial discussion of controversial aspects of history;
(3) The impartial instruction on the historical oppression of a particular group of people based on race, ethnicity, class, nationality, religion, or geographic region; or
(4) Historical documents that are permitted under present law, such as the national motto, the national anthem, the state and federal constitutions, state and federal laws, and supreme court decisions.

I don't especially object to these laws, and it's also not clear to me what existing K-12 material they would actually ban. For example, I read some recent news about Florida banning a bunch of math textbooks reportedly over CRT, but it seems like most of the objectionable content was from "Social Emotional Learning" - which wouldn't be addressed by any of the points above.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 28, 2022, 07:59:12 AM
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?

So why get so upset if CRT is banned from children’s schools?

After all it was never there in the first place

The laws billed as banning Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools typically don't refer to it by name, but instead have a list of principles which may or may not have overlap with how CRT is defined elsewhere. I started to look into this about a year ago, but I lost interest as like most academic theories, everything was frustratingly vague. For examples of laws, this is the relevant clause in Idaho Bill HB 377,

Quote
No public institution of higher education, school district, or public school, including a public charter school, shall direct or otherwise compel students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the following tenets:
  (i) That any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior;
  (ii) That individuals should be adversely treated on the basis of their sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin; or
  (iii) That individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
(b) No distinction or classification of students shall be made on account of race or color.
(c) No course of instruction or unit of study directing or otherwise compelling students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the tenets identified in paragraph (a) of this subsection shall be used or introduced in any institution of higher education, any school district, or any public school, including a public charter school.

And this is the relevant clause from Tennessee bill HB 580,

Quote
This amendment also prohibits any LEA or public charter school from including or promoting the following concepts as part of a course of instruction or in a curriculum or instructional program, or allowing teachers or other employees of the LEA or public charter school to use supplemental instructional materials that include or promote the following concepts:
(1) One race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex;
(2) An individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, is inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously;
(3) An individual should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of the individual's race or sex;
(4) An individual's moral character is determined by the individual's race or sex;
(5) An individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex;
(6) An individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or another form of psychological distress solely because of the individual's race or sex;
(7) A meritocracy is inherently racist or sexist, or designed by a particular race or sex to oppress members of another race or sex;
(.8.) This state or the United States is fundamentally or irredeemably racist or sexist;
(9) Promoting or advocating the violent overthrow of the United States government;
(10) Promoting division between, or resentment of, a race, sex, religion, creed, nonviolent political affiliation, social class, or class of people; or
(11) Ascribing character traits, values, moral or ethical codes, privileges, or beliefs to a race or sex, or to an individual because of the individual's race or sex.
This amendment does not prohibit an LEA or public charter school from including, as part of a course of instruction or in a curriculum or instructional program, or from allowing teachers or other employees of the LEA or public charter school to use supplemental instructional materials that include:
(1) The history of an ethnic group, as described in textbooks and instructional materials adopted in accordance with present law concerning textbooks and instructional materials;
(2) The impartial discussion of controversial aspects of history;
(3) The impartial instruction on the historical oppression of a particular group of people based on race, ethnicity, class, nationality, religion, or geographic region; or
(4) Historical documents that are permitted under present law, such as the national motto, the national anthem, the state and federal constitutions, state and federal laws, and supreme court decisions.

I don't especially object to these laws, and it's also not clear to me what existing K-12 material they would actually ban. For example, I read some recent news about Florida banning a bunch of math textbooks reportedly over CRT, but it seems like most of the objectionable content was from "Social Emotional Learning" - which wouldn't be addressed by any of the points above.

Then you clearly didn't read the examples. One had a couple of purported 'math problems' which were multiple choice and each option was associated with connecting them to an event from the life of Maya Angelou.

Setting aside the shitty SJW content, that is so fucking wrong for math it's not even funny.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 28, 2022, 10:05:19 AM
  Social Emotional Learning needs banned, it is just CRT in a different package combined with a whole bunch of pushing all the feels.  It is also pushed by Panorama (Company run by Merrick Garland's son in law) which is making money hand over fist pushing "materials" and surveys that look as if they took their ideas from the magazine "Teaching Tolerance" that gets pushed on educators as well. 

    This is just more hard leftist bullshit getting sold to public education thanks to shitlords who have the right political connections to get their rat feet into the door.  It is bullshit. 

   As to the article above trying to imply redlining...well having high debt to income ratio and bad credit is NOT redlining.  It is called bad choices and fuck ups.  My advice to people with those problems is stop fucking your life up, and expect to spend at least 3-4x the time and effort to fix a fuck up than it took to fuck it up.   
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: HappyDaze on April 28, 2022, 10:25:56 AM
Dude. You know CRT is a graduate law school theory and not taught to anyone who hasn't moved on to post degree law studies right?

No one is teaching CRT in children's schools... you know that right?

So why get so upset if CRT is banned from children’s schools?

After all it was never there in the first place

The laws billed as banning Critical Race Theory (CRT) in schools typically don't refer to it by name, but instead have a list of principles which may or may not have overlap with how CRT is defined elsewhere. I started to look into this about a year ago, but I lost interest as like most academic theories, everything was frustratingly vague. For examples of laws, this is the relevant clause in Idaho Bill HB 377,

Quote
No public institution of higher education, school district, or public school, including a public charter school, shall direct or otherwise compel students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the following tenets:
  (i) That any sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin is inherently superior or inferior;
  (ii) That individuals should be adversely treated on the basis of their sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin; or
  (iii) That individuals, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin, are inherently responsible for actions committed in the past by other members of the same sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.
(b) No distinction or classification of students shall be made on account of race or color.
(c) No course of instruction or unit of study directing or otherwise compelling students to personally affirm, adopt, or adhere to any of the tenets identified in paragraph (a) of this subsection shall be used or introduced in any institution of higher education, any school district, or any public school, including a public charter school.

And this is the relevant clause from Tennessee bill HB 580,

Quote
This amendment also prohibits any LEA or public charter school from including or promoting the following concepts as part of a course of instruction or in a curriculum or instructional program, or allowing teachers or other employees of the LEA or public charter school to use supplemental instructional materials that include or promote the following concepts:
(1) One race or sex is inherently superior to another race or sex;
(2) An individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, is inherently privileged, racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or subconsciously;
(3) An individual should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of the individual's race or sex;
(4) An individual's moral character is determined by the individual's race or sex;
(5) An individual, by virtue of the individual's race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex;
(6) An individual should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or another form of psychological distress solely because of the individual's race or sex;
(7) A meritocracy is inherently racist or sexist, or designed by a particular race or sex to oppress members of another race or sex;
(.8.) This state or the United States is fundamentally or irredeemably racist or sexist;
(9) Promoting or advocating the violent overthrow of the United States government;
(10) Promoting division between, or resentment of, a race, sex, religion, creed, nonviolent political affiliation, social class, or class of people; or
(11) Ascribing character traits, values, moral or ethical codes, privileges, or beliefs to a race or sex, or to an individual because of the individual's race or sex.
This amendment does not prohibit an LEA or public charter school from including, as part of a course of instruction or in a curriculum or instructional program, or from allowing teachers or other employees of the LEA or public charter school to use supplemental instructional materials that include:
(1) The history of an ethnic group, as described in textbooks and instructional materials adopted in accordance with present law concerning textbooks and instructional materials;
(2) The impartial discussion of controversial aspects of history;
(3) The impartial instruction on the historical oppression of a particular group of people based on race, ethnicity, class, nationality, religion, or geographic region; or
(4) Historical documents that are permitted under present law, such as the national motto, the national anthem, the state and federal constitutions, state and federal laws, and supreme court decisions.

I don't especially object to these laws, and it's also not clear to me what existing K-12 material they would actually ban. For example, I read some recent news about Florida banning a bunch of math textbooks reportedly over CRT, but it seems like most of the objectionable content was from "Social Emotional Learning" - which wouldn't be addressed by any of the points above.
So in Idaho, it appears that objective teaching of such theories can be offered, but in Tennessee even that might be forbidden.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on April 28, 2022, 01:52:28 PM
I don't especially object to these laws, and it's also not clear to me what existing K-12 material they would actually ban. For example, I read some recent news about Florida banning a bunch of math textbooks reportedly over CRT, but it seems like most of the objectionable content was from "Social Emotional Learning" - which wouldn't be addressed by any of the points above.

Then you clearly didn't read the examples. One had a couple of purported 'math problems' which were multiple choice and each option was associated with connecting them to an event from the life of Maya Angelou.

I think you're mixing up examples here. What I read is that the Maya Angelou problems were given to high schoolers in the Lincoln County Missouri, and were not from a textbook - but rather from a content sharing website teacherspayteachers.com.

Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/04/20/fact-check-homework-referenced-maya-angelous-sexual-abuse-sex-work/7387752001/

There's a huge difference between what individual teachers do and approved parts of the curriculum or textbooks. There are 3.5 million public school teachers in the U.S., so regardless of the average quality, it's easy to find dozens of examples of completely shitty teachers and teaching. I have a low opinion of the quality of U.S. public education in general, but they should be judged on the average, not on the bottom of the curve.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 28, 2022, 03:10:06 PM
There's totally not any CRT being pushed on schools it's ONLY ever taught on law school...

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 28, 2022, 04:26:24 PM
There's totally not any CRT being pushed on schools it's ONLY ever taught on law school...



Greetings!

Yeah, all the cock-sucking Marxists bloviate about how "CRT isn't being taught in schools!" Yeah, it is you lying fucking Communist scumbag! It's called using TROJAN HORSES and DECEPTION you fucking morons.

That's ok though. The more lying, the more dancing, the more wormy bullshit from the fucking Marxists--the people will all know who to string the fuck up when the time comes. All of these wormy Marxist bastards won't be able to escape the rope. Our society needs to be cleansed from Marxist scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 28, 2022, 04:45:48 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, all the cock-sucking Marxists bloviate about how "CRT isn't being taught in schools!" Yeah, it is you lying fucking Communist scumbag! It's called using TROJAN HORSES and DECEPTION you fucking morons.

That's ok though. The more lying, the more dancing, the more wormy bullshit from the fucking Marxists--the people will all know who to string the fuck up when the time comes. All of these wormy Marxist bastards won't be able to escape the rope. Our society needs to be cleansed from Marxist scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Just swap out "Marxist", and you sound like what the true believers during the Cultural Revolution in China must have sounded like.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 28, 2022, 06:01:30 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, all the cock-sucking Marxists bloviate about how "CRT isn't being taught in schools!" Yeah, it is you lying fucking Communist scumbag! It's called using TROJAN HORSES and DECEPTION you fucking morons.

That's ok though. The more lying, the more dancing, the more wormy bullshit from the fucking Marxists--the people will all know who to string the fuck up when the time comes. All of these wormy Marxist bastards won't be able to escape the rope. Our society needs to be cleansed from Marxist scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Just swap out "Marxist", and you sound like what the true believers during the Cultural Revolution in China must have sounded like.

Greetings!

That's nice, Pat. I'm just tired of Marxists corrupting and destroying our culture and country.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: DocJones on April 28, 2022, 06:58:21 PM
#1 best seller children's book on Amazon despite Amazon not allowing it to be advertised on their platform and changing the category to political.

This is a link to the one-star reviews which are amusing:

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1956007059/ref=cm_cr_unknown/147-3184780-5657418?pd_rd_i=1956007059&filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on April 28, 2022, 08:09:30 PM
#1 best seller children's book on Amazon despite Amazon not allowing it to be advertised on their platform and changing the category to political.

This is a link to the one-star reviews which are amusing:

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/1956007059/ref=cm_cr_unknown/147-3184780-5657418?pd_rd_i=1956007059&filterByStar=one_star&pageNumber=1

Greetings!

Matt Walsh is awesome! I watch his program regularly. Matt Walsh is observant, sharp, and funny. Great man, commentator, and thinker. The Liberals Reee and hate him, which is good.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Pat on April 28, 2022, 10:55:46 PM
Greetings!

Yeah, all the cock-sucking Marxists bloviate about how "CRT isn't being taught in schools!" Yeah, it is you lying fucking Communist scumbag! It's called using TROJAN HORSES and DECEPTION you fucking morons.

That's ok though. The more lying, the more dancing, the more wormy bullshit from the fucking Marxists--the people will all know who to string the fuck up when the time comes. All of these wormy Marxist bastards won't be able to escape the rope. Our society needs to be cleansed from Marxist scum.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Just swap out "Marxist", and you sound like what the true believers during the Cultural Revolution in China must have sounded like.

Greetings!

That's nice, Pat. I'm just tired of Marxists corrupting and destroying our culture and country.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Then fight them without gloating who'll be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Orphan81 on April 29, 2022, 07:05:35 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: FelixGamingX1 on April 29, 2022, 07:23:22 AM

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.

I just wish the education system in the US wasn’t so far behind compared to South America and Europe. And then I don’t think you can teach common sense to a ignorant person. Perhaps one is born with it? God, and the insecurity issues… The internet wasn’t around back then, so people didn’t talk half the shit they talk online today. And now the inmates are running the Asylum. Why? Poor education.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 29, 2022, 08:00:07 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Orphan81 on April 29, 2022, 08:06:53 AM

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.

I just wish the education system in the US wasn’t so far behind compared to South America and Europe. And then I don’t think you can teach common sense to a ignorant person. Perhaps one is born with it? God, and the insecurity issues… The internet wasn’t around back then, so people didn’t talk half the shit they talk online today. And now the inmates are running the Asylum. Why? Poor education.

Bruh, I'm going to be real with you.
I've no clue what you're trying to say in the context of a reply to me.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Chris24601 on April 29, 2022, 08:07:35 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.
Block is indeed useful. Now, if people would just stop quoting and requoting fixable, he’d be out of my life entirely.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 29, 2022, 08:51:32 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.

   The thing that makes me scratch my head, is there is a *very* obvious target for those people regarding free speech.  Right wing populism absolutely terrifies them.  They immediately equate anything right of them as nazi, and seem to think that "nazi" ideas are some zombie virus that argumentation and facts can not over come.  Extremely strange that fear IMO.   Meanwhile, a kid can see literally any sort of disgusting porn imaginable through any slip of device security you can imagine on the internet.  It seems the priorities are oddly muddled with regards to "protecting" people's minds.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on April 29, 2022, 02:12:15 PM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.

   The thing that makes me scratch my head, is there is a *very* obvious target for those people regarding free speech.  Right wing populism absolutely terrifies them.  They immediately equate anything right of them as nazi, and seem to think that "nazi" ideas are some zombie virus that argumentation and facts can not over come.  Extremely strange that fear IMO.   Meanwhile, a kid can see literally any sort of disgusting porn imaginable through any slip of device security you can imagine on the internet.  It seems the priorities are oddly muddled with regards to "protecting" people's minds.

They see it that way because they don't understand that they are moving further and further left - to them, it's like they are standing still and everyone else is moving further right even though it's the exact opposite.  At this point, they all need to be institutionalized for mental illness.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 29, 2022, 07:10:49 PM
I agree that it probably will feel like more of a cesspool to many, but that is better than a forum in which only one political party is able to express themselves, the other side being labeled as “evil”. But yeah, you’re probably going to see more people screaming about “teh Jeeews!”. That’s just the price to pay I guess.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 29, 2022, 08:05:41 PM
I agree that it probably will feel like more of a cesspool to many, but that is better than a forum in which only one political party is able to express themselves, the other side being labeled as “evil”. But yeah, you’re probably going to see more people screaming about “teh Jeeews!”. That’s just the price to pay I guess.

  Like the dude running Iran likes to say on twitter....now?  I think there will be a bit of it in the USA, but if that was such a concern, why do we let a guy who runs Iran spout off on twitter?  I have no doubt there will be a "rise in white supremacist violence", which they have to use prison stabbings to make look like a thing now.  Anti semitism, fascism, etc are not a worry IMO, those ideas can easily be shot down and disproven in moments, and people pushing them are just retards outing themselves.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 29, 2022, 08:18:43 PM
I agree that it probably will feel like more of a cesspool to many, but that is better than a forum in which only one political party is able to express themselves, the other side being labeled as “evil”. But yeah, you’re probably going to see more people screaming about “teh Jeeews!”. That’s just the price to pay I guess.

  Like the dude running Iran likes to say on twitter....now?  I think there will be a bit of it in the USA, but if that was such a concern, why do we let a guy who runs Iran spout off on twitter?  I have no doubt there will be a "rise in white supremacist violence", which they have to use prison stabbings to make look like a thing now.  Anti semitism, fascism, etc are not a worry IMO, those ideas can easily be shot down and disproven in moments, and people pushing them are just retards outing themselves.

I’m curious; did he actually ramble about Jews on Twitter?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Shasarak on April 29, 2022, 08:38:48 PM
I agree that it probably will feel like more of a cesspool to many, but that is better than a forum in which only one political party is able to express themselves, the other side being labeled as “evil”. But yeah, you’re probably going to see more people screaming about “teh Jeeews!”. That’s just the price to pay I guess.

  Like the dude running Iran likes to say on twitter....now?  I think there will be a bit of it in the USA, but if that was such a concern, why do we let a guy who runs Iran spout off on twitter?  I have no doubt there will be a "rise in white supremacist violence", which they have to use prison stabbings to make look like a thing now.  Anti semitism, fascism, etc are not a worry IMO, those ideas can easily be shot down and disproven in moments, and people pushing them are just retards outing themselves.

The main Anti-Semitism that I see at the moment seems to be Black on Jew crime which is not allowed to be reported because it does not fit the narrative.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on April 30, 2022, 02:15:08 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.

   The thing that makes me scratch my head, is there is a *very* obvious target for those people regarding free speech.  Right wing populism absolutely terrifies them.  They immediately equate anything right of them as nazi, and seem to think that "nazi" ideas are some zombie virus that argumentation and facts can not over come.  Extremely strange that fear IMO.   Meanwhile, a kid can see literally any sort of disgusting porn imaginable through any slip of device security you can imagine on the internet.  It seems the priorities are oddly muddled with regards to "protecting" people's minds.

They see it that way because they don't understand that they are moving further and further left - to them, it's like they are standing still and everyone else is moving further right even though it's the exact opposite.  At this point, they all need to be institutionalized for mental illness.
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Orphan81 on April 30, 2022, 05:27:57 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.

   The thing that makes me scratch my head, is there is a *very* obvious target for those people regarding free speech.  Right wing populism absolutely terrifies them.  They immediately equate anything right of them as nazi, and seem to think that "nazi" ideas are some zombie virus that argumentation and facts can not over come.  Extremely strange that fear IMO.   Meanwhile, a kid can see literally any sort of disgusting porn imaginable through any slip of device security you can imagine on the internet.  It seems the priorities are oddly muddled with regards to "protecting" people's minds.

They see it that way because they don't understand that they are moving further and further left - to them, it's like they are standing still and everyone else is moving further right even though it's the exact opposite.  At this point, they all need to be institutionalized for mental illness.
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

....You actually believe the Christian right still has any kind of power in the U.S.?
Jesus you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 30, 2022, 09:57:22 AM
I agree that it probably will feel like more of a cesspool to many, but that is better than a forum in which only one political party is able to express themselves, the other side being labeled as “evil”. But yeah, you’re probably going to see more people screaming about “teh Jeeews!”. That’s just the price to pay I guess.

  Like the dude running Iran likes to say on twitter....now?  I think there will be a bit of it in the USA, but if that was such a concern, why do we let a guy who runs Iran spout off on twitter?  I have no doubt there will be a "rise in white supremacist violence", which they have to use prison stabbings to make look like a thing now.  Anti semitism, fascism, etc are not a worry IMO, those ideas can easily be shot down and disproven in moments, and people pushing them are just retards outing themselves.

I’m curious; did he actually ramble about Jews on Twitter?

  i don't know that it was a ramble, I remember a tweet calling Israel a cancerous tumor that must be removed.   Many similar tweets, some pretty direct with this feelings and words.  But he kept it short usually.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: oggsmash on April 30, 2022, 09:59:02 AM
This is more significant than you give it credit to it’s the first real challenge to big techs monopoly. The algorithm going open source also will expose the bias we knew was there. My eye is on the feds atm at what they will do. We know they are in bed with social media and big tech to get around 1st ammendment violations
I'm interested in seeing the algorithm go open source and be allowed to be examined.

I'd like to see how my social media feed is being manipulated.

As far as 1st amendment violations, it remains to be seen. Free speech is protected from government action, not private corporations (which is why being banned on twitter is not a 1st amendment violation). Twitter can implement whatever limitations on speech it desires now and under Musk. If Musk wants to open the flood gates, so be it. We can let the 'free market' decide. In light of the lack of popularity of other so called 'free speech' platforms... this can probably ruin Twitter as a platform.

In my opinion, the people clamouring the most about free speech are the ones whose speech is the most abhorred.

So the fuck what? No seriously so the fuck what? Free Speech is just that, Free fucking Speech. Everyone gets to say what they want. Jesus Christ this sort of thinking is the height of concern trolling.

"Oh no if we let people say what they want, they might say mean things!"

Yeah they might. That's what the block button is for.
The cure for bad speech is more speech, not less. But lefties don't understand that.

Remember: Your speech is violence, to them.

I agree on the block button, though. Some people aren't worth talking to. But that's a decision by the individual, not for some nebulous 'committee' to decide.

   The thing that makes me scratch my head, is there is a *very* obvious target for those people regarding free speech.  Right wing populism absolutely terrifies them.  They immediately equate anything right of them as nazi, and seem to think that "nazi" ideas are some zombie virus that argumentation and facts can not over come.  Extremely strange that fear IMO.   Meanwhile, a kid can see literally any sort of disgusting porn imaginable through any slip of device security you can imagine on the internet.  It seems the priorities are oddly muddled with regards to "protecting" people's minds.

They see it that way because they don't understand that they are moving further and further left - to them, it's like they are standing still and everyone else is moving further right even though it's the exact opposite.  At this point, they all need to be institutionalized for mental illness.
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

  You can change out Christian for "ally" or "progressive" and it sounds about right for current day.   
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on April 30, 2022, 11:58:45 AM

  You can change out Christian for "ally" or "progressive" and it sounds about right for current day.

Yes, it’s not at all where the right is right now (e.g. Ben Shapiro is not even a Christian yet he is among the most popular on the right), but the questions of purity and virtue signaling are running deep on the left. Any statement that could be interpreted the “wrong way” has to be prefaced by a lengthy “I am big supporter of gay/women’s/minorities rights but…” and even that rarely helps. Seriously, you can be a leftist and a feminist, but if you’re not the right kind of feminist, you’re under attack, as J K Rowling has experienced.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on April 30, 2022, 01:39:16 PM
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

....You actually believe the Christian right still has any kind of power in the U.S.?
Jesus you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Based on the new abortion restriction laws being passed, I think the Christian right do still have some influence, but I do think it's much less than it was.

The curious thing to me about changes is how the right have shifted closer to some of my positions that in past decades used to be viewed as leftist or progressive -- opposition to U.S. foreign wars, opposition to corporate power, and free speech. In the 1990s and 2000s, mainstream Democrats have usually been hawkish - but at least less hawkish than Republicans (60% of Democrats voted against Bush's Iraq war). Neither party used to be supportive of free speech - efforts in the 1990s to censor lyrics were bipartisan, for example, but opposition to this was more from the left. And corporations would naturally cater to whoever was in power, but laws and action to rein them in (like anti-trust) more often came from the left.

Still, I seem just as hateful as ever to the right - such as from being environmentalist and favoring LGBT rights.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 30, 2022, 03:25:57 PM
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

....You actually believe the Christian right still has any kind of power in the U.S.?
Jesus you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Based on the new abortion restriction laws being passed, I think the Christian right do still have some influence, but I do think it's much less than it was.

The curious thing to me about changes is how the right have shifted closer to some of my positions that in past decades used to be viewed as leftist or progressive -- opposition to U.S. foreign wars, opposition to corporate power, and free speech. In the 1990s and 2000s, mainstream Democrats have usually been hawkish - but at least less hawkish than Republicans (60% of Democrats voted against Bush's Iraq war). Neither party used to be supportive of free speech - efforts in the 1990s to censor lyrics were bipartisan, for example, but opposition to this was more from the left. And corporations would naturally cater to whoever was in power, but laws and action to rein them in (like anti-trust) more often came from the left.

Still, I seem just as hateful as ever to the right - such as from being environmentalist and favoring LGBT rights.

Boo Hoo! Women aren't being allowed to murder their babies! Cry me a river.

That should be a humanitarian position, science tells us life begins at conception and that it's a human life, but you are happy to strip a baby from his human rights because?
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: 3catcircus on May 01, 2022, 11:35:16 AM
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

....You actually believe the Christian right still has any kind of power in the U.S.?
Jesus you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Based on the new abortion restriction laws being passed, I think the Christian right do still have some influence, but I do think it's much less than it was.

The curious thing to me about changes is how the right have shifted closer to some of my positions that in past decades used to be viewed as leftist or progressive -- opposition to U.S. foreign wars, opposition to corporate power, and free speech. In the 1990s and 2000s, mainstream Democrats have usually been hawkish - but at least less hawkish than Republicans (60% of Democrats voted against Bush's Iraq war). Neither party used to be supportive of free speech - efforts in the 1990s to censor lyrics were bipartisan, for example, but opposition to this was more from the left. And corporations would naturally cater to whoever was in power, but laws and action to rein them in (like anti-trust) more often came from the left.

Still, I seem just as hateful as ever to the right - such as from being environmentalist and favoring LGBT rights.

It depends upon what you mean by that.  Family farmers using traditional methods that conserve resources? Or "death to you for driving a gasoline vehicle while I fly to Davos in my private jet?"

"LGBT should be treated no different than anyone else?" Or "LGBT need special rights and if you treat them like everyone else, that's discriminatory?"

There is a vast difference between a reasonable position on any given topic and extremist activism on that topic.

We're seeing many on the left trying to outcompete each other's virtue signalling to include trying to cancel those who aren't as "pure" in their beliefs.  We're don't see that from the right much, if at all ll.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on May 11, 2022, 06:13:09 PM

Still, I seem just as hateful as ever to the right - such as from being environmentalist and favoring LGBT rights.

On the "hateful" thing. Well, not focusing on you here, but there IS a lot of hate coming from the left. I was a bit shocked by it after coming to the US. Many people come here with the assumption that Hollywood's portrayal of the "hateful right-wing racists" is correct, but those are hard to find in real life. Notice made-up stories about racism for instance, and people asserting that those things happen "all the time". They don't. People seem to live in Hollywoodland. 

Meanwhile, I would be very cautious to walk around with a MAGA hat. It's as if overreacting is what they do to everything on the left these days (and yes more on the left than on the right, although tensions are running high all around). The Covington kids is a good example (nothing actually happened, it shouldn't have made the news) but seriously most of 2020 felt like the left terrorizing the rest of the population.
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on May 11, 2022, 06:55:37 PM

Still, I seem just as hateful as ever to the right - such as from being environmentalist and favoring LGBT rights.

On the "hateful" thing. Well, not focusing on you here, but there IS a lot of hate coming from the left. I was a bit shocked by it after coming to the US. Many people come here with the assumption that Hollywood's portrayal of the "hateful right-wing racists" is correct, but those are hard to find in real life. Notice made-up stories about racism for instance, and people asserting that those things happen "all the time". They don't. People seem to live in Hollywoodland. 

Meanwhile, I would be very cautious to walk around with a MAGA hat. It's as if overreacting is what they do to everything on the left these days (and yes more on the left than on the right, although tensions are running high all around). The Covington kids is a good example (nothing actually happened, it shouldn't have made the news) but seriously most of 2020 felt like the left terrorizing the rest of the population.

Greetings!

I agree Trond. Very true.

It's too bad you don't live in my town. Lots of people openly wear MAGA hats. People everywhere in my neighborhood have pro-Trump banners and flags everywhere. Trump flags, the American flag, military flags. This street, that street, anywhere and everywhere.

Everywhere I go, people tell me when they see I'm a Marine Veteran, "Thank you for your service, Sir!" Businesses also customarily provide discounts for military veterans. People here are very patriotic, pro-America, Conservative, and Christian.

You would be entirely safe here, Trond. Understandably, people here take a dim view of Liberals, BLM and ANTIFA, and Marxists. People here--men and women alike--also firmly believe in GUNS and gun ownership. At the local gun shop, an employee there--he is also an active-duty police officer--encourage people to be armed, be trained, and to be equipped. Proudly so, almost like it is a duty that everyone has.

It is a very refreshing change of environment from California. Like I tell some of my friends that are still trapped in California, moving here, in so many ways, you start to see clearly how everyone in California is enslaved and oppressed. In so many different areas of life, attitude, behavior, and law, you experience *Freedom* here, instead of Liberal Marxist tyranny.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: jhkim on May 11, 2022, 08:51:20 PM
On the "hateful" thing. Well, not focusing on you here, but there IS a lot of hate coming from the left. I was a bit shocked by it after coming to the US.

I agree that there is hate from the left, but I think there is an increase of partisan hate in general. I would offer a few quotes from discussion here in this forum:

That's ok though. The more lying, the more dancing, the more wormy bullshit from the fucking Marxists--the people will all know who to string the fuck up when the time comes. All of these wormy Marxist bastards won't be able to escape the rope. Our society needs to be cleansed from Marxist scum.

I'm not interested in listening to cock-sucking Liberal Marxists. I used to debate their terrible and evil "world views" over 20 years ago. Nothing about their "world view" has changed. If anything, it has gotten worse. Like rotten and spoiled food, they need to be thrown the fuck out and fed to the pigs.

Yeah, whiny bitch cock-sucking traitor. KILL THEM ALL. Every fucking Communist hunted down and killed like the fucking evil rats that they are. Communists are not just like preferring a different flavour of ice cream than you or I might prefer--no, they are evil fucking tyrants that want to kill you and enslave you to their godless and terrible fucking ideology.

Fuck the Communists. You damn right they need to be killed. Every fucking one of them needs to bathe in Napalm, baby! ALL OF THEM!
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: SHARK on May 11, 2022, 09:35:19 PM
On the "hateful" thing. Well, not focusing on you here, but there IS a lot of hate coming from the left. I was a bit shocked by it after coming to the US.

I agree that there is hate from the left, but I think there is an increase of partisan hate in general. I would offer a few quotes from discussion here in this forum:

That's ok though. The more lying, the more dancing, the more wormy bullshit from the fucking Marxists--the people will all know who to string the fuck up when the time comes. All of these wormy Marxist bastards won't be able to escape the rope. Our society needs to be cleansed from Marxist scum.

I'm not interested in listening to cock-sucking Liberal Marxists. I used to debate their terrible and evil "world views" over 20 years ago. Nothing about their "world view" has changed. If anything, it has gotten worse. Like rotten and spoiled food, they need to be thrown the fuck out and fed to the pigs.

Yeah, whiny bitch cock-sucking traitor. KILL THEM ALL. Every fucking Communist hunted down and killed like the fucking evil rats that they are. Communists are not just like preferring a different flavour of ice cream than you or I might prefer--no, they are evil fucking tyrants that want to kill you and enslave you to their godless and terrible fucking ideology.

Fuck the Communists. You damn right they need to be killed. Every fucking one of them needs to bathe in Napalm, baby! ALL OF THEM!

Greetings!

Yes, Jhkim. That's right. Marxists are the fucking enemy.

Oh noes! We can't have Conservatives get fed up with Liberal Marxist intimidation, threats, violence, and hatred!

You may have forgotten about BLM and ANTIFA--both of which are proud, admitted Marxists.

Well, I haven't forgotten.

Threats to the culture and nation--such as Marxists--need to be taken seriously, and ruthlessly dealt with.

You don't like that? Good. Get on your fucking knees and serve the Marxist masters, while they groom our kids to be brainwashed sex slaves, wallowing in depravity.

That isn't a fate that I want for America, so I believe that Marxists and fucking Marxism should be resisted, and crushed.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: Trond on May 11, 2022, 10:11:42 PM
Shark, you’re not always helping your side  ;D
Title: Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
Post by: fixable on May 12, 2022, 04:07:04 AM
If you are white straight christian then I can see how you would believe that the right speaks to you and protects you. But wait until the right gets more tight...

Are you the RIGHT kind of christian? It'll be a matter of when not if when they come for you. It won't stop with abortion or same sex marriage. When they finish going through the line.. you'll be next under scrutiny. Are you a proper christian???

....You actually believe the Christian right still has any kind of power in the U.S.?
Jesus you're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

Based on the new abortion restriction laws being passed, I think the Christian right do still have some influence, but I do think it's much less than it was.

The curious thing to me about changes is how the right have shifted closer to some of my positions that in past decades used to be viewed as leftist or progressive -- opposition to U.S. foreign wars, opposition to corporate power, and free speech. In the 1990s and 2000s, mainstream Democrats have usually been hawkish - but at least less hawkish than Republicans (60% of Democrats voted against Bush's Iraq war). Neither party used to be supportive of free speech - efforts in the 1990s to censor lyrics were bipartisan, for example, but opposition to this was more from the left. And corporations would naturally cater to whoever was in power, but laws and action to rein them in (like anti-trust) more often came from the left.

Still, I seem just as hateful as ever to the right - such as from being environmentalist and favoring LGBT rights.

Boo Hoo! Women aren't being allowed to murder their babies! Cry me a river.

That should be a humanitarian position, science tells us life begins at conception and that it's a human life, but you are happy to strip a baby from his human rights because?
They aren't babies until their born. But a fertilization can lead to a miscarriage. Which can be pretty high earlier in the pregnancy. So fertilization can not be an indicator. Unless you are ok with the idea of a woman having a miscarriage being charged with murder.

But say that is not true... do you support free medical care for women who need to carry their pregnancy to term without regard for their financial situation? Do you support child care to help women afford to raise these children that they may not be able to afford? Do you support death sentence for rapists (or is rape more acceptable than abortion)?, do you accept free mental health support to mothers forced to raise children they don't  want?  Do you support financial compensation based on existing salary for life for any woman forced to have a child and leave their job?

Do you support financial and emotional support to women forced to have unviable children (forced to give birth to genetically defective infants that will suffer and die). Maybe you don't know, but some genetic defects are HORRIFYING... Lile worse than any horror movie you have seen (make Jacob's Ladder feel like My Little Pony level horror). Will you support the need for mental health support needed for that?

Edwards Syndrome (Trisomy 18)
Edwards syndrome (trisomy 18) is rare, affecting only one of every 5,000 births. Around 95% of cases are caused by an extra chromosome 18. The remaining 5% of cases are due to an error known as translocation in which the building blocks of one chromosome is inserted into another.6

Edwards syndrome is characterized by low birth weight, an abnormally small head, and defec