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Author Topic: Turning the corner on "woke"?  (Read 107202 times)

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #645 on: May 16, 2022, 11:42:03 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

And fattyPatty delivers his coup de grace! Oh wait... I'm thinking of someone else, my apologies.

Oh my! It's just so specific in fact that it's "Not really definable...."

This might help you out here's the definition of 'specific':

"clearly defined or identified."

It's quite clear to me that you're as dumb as a stump. But these little tete-a-tetes provide me with a nice little break while I'm drawing on the compu. So please carry on, fattyPatty. :-*
This compulsion to keep proving you really are the stupidest person present is admirable, in a very dumb way.

Was that a dodge?  :-*
It's sad you think there was anything to dodge.

LOL
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GeekyBugle

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #646 on: May 16, 2022, 11:59:26 PM »
You are dumb. There's really not anything more to say. It's a very specific argument, which you clearly can't grasp.

And fattyPatty delivers his coup de grace! Oh wait... I'm thinking of someone else, my apologies.

Oh my! It's just so specific in fact that it's "Not really definable...."

This might help you out here's the definition of 'specific':

"clearly defined or identified."

It's quite clear to me that you're as dumb as a stump. But these little tete-a-tetes provide me with a nice little break while I'm drawing on the compu. So please carry on, fattyPatty. :-*
This compulsion to keep proving you really are the stupidest person present is admirable, in a very dumb way.

Was that a dodge?  :-*
It's sad you think there was anything to dodge.

Just put him on ignore Pat, your experience of the forum will improve 1000%
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #647 on: May 17, 2022, 05:47:13 AM »
Just put him on ignore Pat, your experience of the forum will improve 1000%

Please do! That's the first sensible thing you've ever said.

Toot Toot!

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DocJones

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #648 on: May 17, 2022, 01:13:57 PM »
I believe that science shows that it is both alive and a human being from conception.
Person is of course the legal term for when a being has rights, particularly in this case the right to life.
The choices I've heard are:
1) from conception
2) when the heart starts beating
3) when they feel pain
4) when they are conscious
5) viability
6) birth
I go with 1.

Do you have reasons behind that choice? This is the big question to me.
I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to killing someone.

I left out "viability" from that list, which is odd that I forgot that since that was the presumption in the Roe v. Wade statutory requirements.
So I edited in above. 

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #649 on: May 17, 2022, 01:16:55 PM »
I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to killing someone.

Yes, indeed, and a very valid concern.

That's why we have the whole 12 weeks issue over here.
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jhkim

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #650 on: May 17, 2022, 01:32:03 PM »
I believe that science shows that it is both alive and a human being from conception.
Person is of course the legal term for when a being has rights, particularly in this case the right to life.
The choices I've heard are:
1) from conception
2) when the heart starts beating
3) when they feel pain
4) when they are conscious
5) viability
6) birth
I go with 1.

Do you have reasons behind that choice? This is the big question to me.
I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to killing someone.

I left out "viability" from that list, which is odd that I forgot that since that was the presumption in the Roe v. Wade statutory requirements. So I edited in above.

Thanks. What direction you err is important, but it doesn't give me a full picture of the thinking that goes into it. To clarify, do you have a position on other issues of life and death, like brain-dead patients, in-vitro fertilization, human cell cultures, animal rights, and/or the death penalty?

Chris24601

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #651 on: May 17, 2022, 06:11:01 PM »
I believe that science shows that it is both alive and a human being from conception.
Person is of course the legal term for when a being has rights, particularly in this case the right to life.
The choices I've heard are:
1) from conception
2) when the heart starts beating
3) when they feel pain
4) when they are conscious
5) viability
6) birth
I go with 1.

Do you have reasons behind that choice? This is the big question to me.
I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to killing someone.

I left out "viability" from that list, which is odd that I forgot that since that was the presumption in the Roe v. Wade statutory requirements. So I edited in above.

Thanks. What direction you err is important, but it doesn't give me a full picture of the thinking that goes into it. To clarify, do you have a position on other issues of life and death, like brain-dead patients, in-vitro fertilization, human cell cultures, animal rights, and/or the death penalty?
Not the person you asked, by my position has been quite clarified for me while dealing with my father's medical issues. In short, I favor human life in all its forms from conception to natural death.

- I am against the death penalty. If we can contain someone so they pose no threat to others there is no reason to kill them (pragmatically in the US it also cheaper as the cost of incarceration over the remainder of their life is often less than all the legal bills racked up by both sides contesting a death sentence). It also eliminates any possibility that the State, as representative of the people will kill someone who is actually innocent.

- By contrast, I understand that sometimes, in the moment, that killing in defense of yourself or others might be the only way to prevent even greater loss of life. In this case, one is choosing the lives of innocents over the life of someone who wishes them harm. If there existing a technology that could reliably disable someone as efficiently as a firearm, but without killing them, my opinion on this would change... but such things are presently the realm of science fiction so that's a moot point.

- This one came directly from the issues with my father. If someone they can breathe on their own and their heart is beating on its own and they are able to digest nutrients (in the dying process the digestive system can shut down) then it is morally wrong to deny someone food and fluids, even if they are comatose, particularly since the feeding tubes are often more for the convenience of those caring for the individual so they don't have to feed by hand. ETA: To clarify, if we had listened to the doctors and not allowed him to be fed, he would have been dead a month instead of about to go home.

- If, on the other hand, they are comatose and not able to breathe on their own or able to digest nutrients and there is no reason to believe there is hope of recovery then you can remove the artificial life support and let nature take its course.

- I am opposed to invitro fertilization because it creates a number of embryos, implants some (and if too many implant it can require selective abortions for the mother's survival) and leaves the rest in potential limbo in indefinite storage that it is fraught with all manner of ethical issues. I understand the impetus for wanting a biological child, but if you are infertile it is generally for a medical reason and there are so many other children just waiting for loving parents and forever homes where you can be a hero who chose them to be your child... that there's no real reason for invitro fertilization.

- I oppose embryonic stem cell research for the entirely practical reason that all the money dumped into it has yet to product a single viable treatment while adult and umbilical stem cells have produced a myriad of successful treatments. If one believes in God, one might almost think that God planned that the wicked would never be able to produce the slightest good from the murder of innocent children... if you don't, its still just a huge waste of resources to keep chasing a failed line of research when effective and non-morally compromised lines of research are readily available.

- I oppose cruelty to animals, but we are omnivores by diet and so am neither a vegetarian nor vegan. I believe in humanely killing animals for food (and letting as little of the animal go to waste as possible... so do not oppose leather made from animals we eat for food), but oppose killing for sport or convenience (we use live traps for the raccoons and possums in our barns and for mice in our home, and I even use a cup and sheet of paper to transport spiders and other insects outdoors rather than just squashing them.

- Since I don't even like to kill animals outside of for food (i.e. survival) I don't think its surprise that I'm against abortion. My lone exception is when the mother's life is in jeopardy (not inconvenienced, at great risk of ending... i.e. self-defense). I don't make exceptions for rape or incest or disability of the child. Rape because as horrific as it might be, compounding it with the murder of an innocent child doesn't make it better. In terms of disability because who are we to judge what quality of life is "worth it"? I know a number of children and adults with Down's Syndrome and they are among the happiest people I've ever met who enrich others' lives. I can't imagine the prospect of killing them just because they might not be "perfect."
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 06:12:39 PM by Chris24601 »

jhkim

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #652 on: May 17, 2022, 07:26:56 PM »
Since I don't even like to kill animals outside of for food (i.e. survival) I don't think its surprise that I'm against abortion. My lone exception is when the mother's life is in jeopardy (not inconvenienced, at great risk of ending... i.e. self-defense). I don't make exceptions for rape or incest or disability of the child. Rape because as horrific as it might be, compounding it with the murder of an innocent child doesn't make it better. In terms of disability because who are we to judge what quality of life is "worth it"? I know a number of children and adults with Down's Syndrome and they are among the happiest people I've ever met who enrich others' lives. I can't imagine the prospect of killing them just because they might not be "perfect."

Thanks, Chris24601. I have a different position from you, but you've explained your position in detail and it gives me a clearer picture. I'm glad it sounds like your father was able to recover from his medical issues.

For me, my aunt's husband Changhe has had brain damage for decades after being hit by a car. He can't function except at a very simple level and has shown no sign of recovery, but I very much think he should be kept alive, as he has been.

I've explained before about how personhood for me depends on some quality of thoughts and feelings.

So in regards to life support if someone was comatose... Even if they weren't able to breath or swallow on their own, I'd still want to keep them breathing and fed artificially if it seemed like their cerebral function might recover to even a simple level. With animals... I'm not vegetarian, but I favor eating fish, shellfish, and chicken over higher mammals like beef and pork - because I think higher mammals have more thought process to us. Similar to you, I also dislike killing animals for non-survival reasons, favoring the ones with more brain function. I don't care much about killing ants in my kitchen, but I wouldn't want to hunt and kill higher mammals.

I hope even though we disagree, that at least gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.

Pat
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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #653 on: May 17, 2022, 08:01:40 PM »
My lone exception is when the mother's life is in jeopardy (not inconvenienced, at great risk of ending... i.e. self-defense).
I think self-defense is a bad analogy. Triage is better. You can't save everyone, so sometimes you have to decide who has the best chance.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #654 on: May 17, 2022, 08:12:28 PM »
Since I don't even like to kill animals outside of for food (i.e. survival) I don't think its surprise that I'm against abortion. My lone exception is when the mother's life is in jeopardy (not inconvenienced, at great risk of ending... i.e. self-defense). I don't make exceptions for rape or incest or disability of the child. Rape because as horrific as it might be, compounding it with the murder of an innocent child doesn't make it better. In terms of disability because who are we to judge what quality of life is "worth it"? I know a number of children and adults with Down's Syndrome and they are among the happiest people I've ever met who enrich others' lives. I can't imagine the prospect of killing them just because they might not be "perfect."

Thanks, Chris24601. I have a different position from you, but you've explained your position in detail and it gives me a clearer picture. I'm glad it sounds like your father was able to recover from his medical issues.

For me, my aunt's husband Changhe has had brain damage for decades after being hit by a car. He can't function except at a very simple level and has shown no sign of recovery, but I very much think he should be kept alive, as he has been.

I've explained before about how personhood for me depends on some quality of thoughts and feelings.

So in regards to life support if someone was comatose... Even if they weren't able to breath or swallow on their own, I'd still want to keep them breathing and fed artificially if it seemed like their cerebral function might recover to even a simple level. With animals... I'm not vegetarian, but I favor eating fish, shellfish, and chicken over higher mammals like beef and pork - because I think higher mammals have more thought process to us. Similar to you, I also dislike killing animals for non-survival reasons, favoring the ones with more brain function. I don't care much about killing ants in my kitchen, but I wouldn't want to hunt and kill higher mammals.

I hope even though we disagree, that at least gives you an idea of where I'm coming from.

But you will merrily deny others the oportunity to reach their full mental development.

You don't want to hunt and kill "higher" mammals but will happily support the killing of human progeny.

Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Ghostmaker

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #655 on: May 23, 2022, 11:04:15 AM »
I dunno if this is a case of 'turning a corner' or not, but Mercedes Lackey just got yeeted out of the Nebula Conference for the high crime of using the word 'colored'.

Link: https://www.sfwa.org/2022/05/22/statement-removal-mercedes-lackey-nebula-conference/

And this is why I say 'Wokeism has no mechanism for forgiveness'. There's also a healthy dollop of suspicion in some circles that this is a power play to get rid of her, to clear the path for other, more woke authors.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #656 on: May 23, 2022, 11:14:57 AM »
I dunno if this is a case of 'turning a corner' or not, but Mercedes Lackey just got yeeted out of the Nebula Conference for the high crime of using the word 'colored'.

Link: https://www.sfwa.org/2022/05/22/statement-removal-mercedes-lackey-nebula-conference/

And this is why I say 'Wokeism has no mechanism for forgiveness'. There's also a healthy dollop of suspicion in some circles that this is a power play to get rid of her, to clear the path for other, more woke authors.

Sure, it's a word you shouldn't say, but she's pretty old so it may have been a slip.

And they didn't give her a chance to apologize?
Attack-minded and dangerously so - W.E. Fairbairn.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #657 on: May 23, 2022, 11:38:23 AM »
I dunno if this is a case of 'turning a corner' or not, but Mercedes Lackey just got yeeted out of the Nebula Conference for the high crime of using the word 'colored'.

Link: https://www.sfwa.org/2022/05/22/statement-removal-mercedes-lackey-nebula-conference/

And this is why I say 'Wokeism has no mechanism for forgiveness'. There's also a healthy dollop of suspicion in some circles that this is a power play to get rid of her, to clear the path for other, more woke authors.

Sure, it's a word you shouldn't say, but she's pretty old so it may have been a slip.

And they didn't give her a chance to apologize?
Oh, Rob, you sweet summer child.

There is no forgiveness. They also booted her husband, Larry Dixon, as well.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #658 on: May 23, 2022, 11:48:38 AM »
I dunno if this is a case of 'turning a corner' or not, but Mercedes Lackey just got yeeted out of the Nebula Conference for the high crime of using the word 'colored'.

Link: https://www.sfwa.org/2022/05/22/statement-removal-mercedes-lackey-nebula-conference/

And this is why I say 'Wokeism has no mechanism for forgiveness'. There's also a healthy dollop of suspicion in some circles that this is a power play to get rid of her, to clear the path for other, more woke authors.

Sure, it's a word you shouldn't say, but she's pretty old so it may have been a slip.

And they didn't give her a chance to apologize?
Oh, Rob, you sweet summer child.

There is no forgiveness. They also booted her husband, Larry Dixon, as well.

Well, her hubby must be an evil doer as well. I mean, if I robbed something from Walmart and my girlfriend then should obviously be arrested too. LOL

But seriously... If she meant to be offensive that's one thing. But if she made a slip of the tongue or something then a simple apology should suffice.

But it's virtue signaling 101! LOL


« Last Edit: May 23, 2022, 12:34:40 PM by Rob Necronomicon »
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SHARK

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #659 on: May 23, 2022, 12:34:02 PM »
Greetings!

This is all language-police Marxist bullshit.

There is nothing wrong with the term "Coloured", just like there is nothing wrong with the term "Negro".

People have been using such terms forever. Fuck these whining pussy morons for banning Mercedes Lackey and her husband. This is why we just need to secede. Fuck having anything todo with Libtard morons. They need to be stomped on everywhere like the fucking cockroaches that they are. Just look how they corrupt, ruin, and shit on every fucking thing in society? There's nothing to talk about; there is nothing to negotiate. Why would anyone want to even live anywhere near these fucking scum? These insane, evil, cultists need to be crushed. But you see, all of this kind of bullshit will simply continue, until a secession, or a cleansing. The Libtards will continue spreading misery, oppression, and tyranny, everywhere.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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