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Author Topic: Turning the corner on "woke"?  (Read 44670 times)

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #540 on: May 14, 2022, 01:10:04 PM »

My point is you ONLY have insults and no arguments.

LOL You're the only sad little vagina who I've ever seen actually argue against their own logic. You literally walked into the Iraq argument. What a Dumb fuck!

That made me laugh... If Hitchens were here today he'd have given you a Hitchslap.

What an oily little tick you are and a blatant flimflammer.

 



"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #541 on: May 14, 2022, 01:14:34 PM »

My point is you ONLY have insults and no arguments.

LOL You're the only sad little vagina who I've ever seen actually argue against their own logic. You literally walked into the Iraq argument. What a Dumb fuck!

That made me laugh... If Hitchens were here today he'd have given you a Hitchslap.

What an oily little tick you are and a blatant flimflammer.

Sure, sure disingenuous twat, you won, you're so smurt you big brain smurt.

You have nothing, no arguments, no science and when confronted with it you drop the mask of reason to show us all you're nothing but a disingenuos twat.

It hurts you so bad you'll keep on sperging out.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #542 on: May 14, 2022, 01:15:24 PM »

My point is you ONLY have insults and no arguments.

LOL You're the only sad little vagina who I've ever seen actually argue against their own logic. You literally walked into the Iraq argument. What a Dumb fuck!

That made me laugh... If Hitchens were here today he'd have given you a Hitchslap.

What an oily little tick you are and a blatant flimflammer.

Sure, sure disingenuous twat, you won, you're so smurt you big brain smurt.

You have nothing, no arguments, no science and when confronted with it you drop the mask of reason to show us all you're nothing but a disingenuos twat.

It hurts you so bad you'll keep on sperging out.

But I'm really crying on the inside. Boohoo. :(
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

wmarshal

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #543 on: May 14, 2022, 01:35:53 PM »
You may disagree, but they are clearly objective definitions of both life and human being.
Obviously, both need be true, for protection of the natural rights to life.   We don't recognize bacteria rights, chicken
rights (PETA be damned), or liver cell rights only live human beings have  rights. 

I believe the only question is when may those rights be alienated.  For me it's the right to self defense. 
When carrying the child to term presents a life threat to the mother.  For example, an ectopic pregnancy,
in which the child cannot be carried to term and mother would likely die.  And when the mother need choose
medical treatment which would likely kill the child but save her life (cancer treatment for instance) .

I see what you're saying, man. But that's the question, I'm asking you at what stage do we consider it to be a person? The term life is nebulous at best (in the early stages).

As a self-defense instructor, I fully agree with the right to self-defense but at what stage can we justify the right to life? I'm going to go with the studies my country did in order to change the abortion laws and as far as I'm concerned they got it right at 12 weeks.

Going any later then we are going into territory that I'm not all that comfortable with unless the mother is in danger.

The Roe and Casey decisions precluded setting limits at 12 weeks. Overturning those decisions are allowing the citizens and their legislators to begin to have discussions as to where those limits should be set. The pro-abortion crowd is so wedded to the idea that a fetus is not a human being worthy of any rights that 49 lefty senators voted to allow abortion in the US up to the point the baby’s head crowns as part of the actual birth, for any reason, no questions asked. Normally I term the other side as pro-choice, but when your thinking is so wretched by what Roe had wrought that one is at the point of infanticide then one has earned the pro-abortion label. The Mississippi law that’s causing Roe to be overturned sets the limit at 15 weeks, 3 weeks later than your country, yet somehow the Mississippi law represents the very depths of Hell to the pro-choice activists.

I consider myself pro-life with exceptions for cases of saving the life of the mother and rape. Unfortunately in the case of rape the child acts as a continuing instrument of assault upon the woman even though the child itself is innocent, so I can accept a principle of self-defense applying here. There are edge cases where the child would be born without a brain, not survive being born, etc. We can now actually have meaningful discussions on these matters that were not really possible while Roe was in effect.

I don’t expect my own point of view to be the law in the near future, but I’m hopeful we can enact some limits closer to 12 weeks, maybe 6 weeks in a few states. To get beyond that the pro-life movement has a ton of work to do to change our overall culture. If they tried to entirely ban abortion this year with only temporary and paper thin margins the backlash would undo all of their work. To get somewhere closer to a general abortion ban with only narrow exceptions that can stand the test of time is something that will take another 50 years at a minimum. The pro-life movement had the patience to work steadily for 50 years to overturn Roe. They’ll need to maintain that patience for another 50 years to achieve their next big goal.

In regards to Grim Jim’s video, in its description he states:
“Abortion is an important right to preserve and protect and there are no secular arguments against it.”
Several secular arguments are made against abortion. That’s not the same as saying “I’ve engaged with the secular pro-life arguments, and found them wanting.” He’s sticking his head in the sand and pretending they don’t exist. Ergo, he’s truly an idiot. The secular pro-life arguments have been being made for decades, and are not hard to find. Several have been presented here.

Grim Jim and the people behind the NPR article like to fool themselves that there are only religious arguments against abortion. Then it’s psychologically easy for them to say to themselves “I’m not religious, so I don’t have to pay any attention to the pro-life side. In fact because I’m against religion it’s only good and just that I automatically oppose the pro-life side.” Part of the reason why many on the pro-choice side are freaking out is that with the removal of Roe one of the foundations of their world view that allowed them to ignore pro-life arguments is being removed.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #544 on: May 14, 2022, 01:46:19 PM »
« Last Edit: May 14, 2022, 10:11:09 PM by Rob Necronomicon »
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #545 on: May 14, 2022, 01:57:26 PM »
In regards to Grim Jim’s video, in its description he states:
“Abortion is an important right to preserve and protect and there are no secular arguments against it.”

TBH, I've not yet to see a convincing secular argument that I'd agree fully agree with. Assuming that the abortion is done before 12 weeks. Six weeks is not really viable. It's too early to detect.

I suppose one could say, that you are denying the clump of cells the right to become life. However, IMO the mother would have the right to say I don't want to bring a kid into the world at this time. Her wants and needs would trump the cells in that case, in my opinion.



"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

GeekyBugle

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #546 on: May 14, 2022, 02:21:43 PM »
So in response to the usual 'Gish gallop' and not aimed at anyone in particular. I will simply do the same as many do here by dropping a load of pro-abortion scientific evidence. Thus proving my point... Enjoy! :)

Actually, my real point is that any gobshite (myself included) can post a load of 'links' and just go argument one. But if you want me to be convinced by 'your links' then you'll have to 'disprove' mine at the same time.

Oh, I can provide many more when you're finished disproving that lot.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/201429

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(11)61786-8/fulltext

https://www.allcountries.org/health/induced_abortion_does_not_increase_breast_cancer_risk.html

https://www.cancer.gov/types/breast/abortion-miscarriage-risk

https://laterabortion.org/science-vs-myths-about-later-abortion-0

https://laterabortion.org/research/five-year-suicidal-ideation-trajectories-among-women-receiving-or-being-denied-abortion

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128832

The first two are very old, therefore outdated and surpased by newer research you dumbass

https://lozierinstitute.org/fact-sheet-science-of-fetal-pain/

The Lancet one, who's arguing that there's no such thing as back alley abortions?

Or are you arguing that people will still commit burglary even if it's a crime?

They only talk about abortions, are all of them induced abortions? You're aware that there's such thing as miscarriages right you disingenuous cunt? Also The Lancet? ANYTHING published there has lost all credibility after the covid scandal.

Who the fuck said anything about breast cancer? Oh right, no one, this is just the disingenuous cunt being a disingenuous twat.

"Myths about latter abortion" by a totally neutral site... You're a disingenuous twat.

Suicidal ideation... But I thought you were against later term abortions? Also by the same totally neutral site... You're a disingenuous POS twat

And finally the last one, not a neutral party conducted the study and it has a size sample that's shit, so I can just dismiss it.  You're a disingenuous twat.

So, again, you have nothing.

No logic, no science, no arguments and you're a POS disingenuous twat.

But you'll keep on sperging out.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

GeekyBugle

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #547 on: May 14, 2022, 02:23:27 PM »
In regards to Grim Jim’s video, in its description he states:
“Abortion is an important right to preserve and protect and there are no secular arguments against it.”

TBH, I've not yet to see a convincing secular argument that I'd agree fully agree with. Assuming that the abortion is done before 12 weeks. Six weeks is not really viable. It's too early to detect.

I suppose one could say, that you are denying the clump of cells the right to become life. However, IMO the mother would have the right to say I don't want to bring a kid into the world at this time. Her wants and needs would trump the cells in that case, in my opinion.

Yep, she had that right, she lost it the moment she created a new life. Should have taken measures to prevent getting pregnant, it's a shame there's no such thing as contraceptives...

Fecking disingenuous twat.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

wmarshal

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #548 on: May 14, 2022, 02:31:01 PM »
In regards to Grim Jim’s video, in its description he states:
“Abortion is an important right to preserve and protect and there are no secular arguments against it.”

TBH, I've not yet to see a convincing secular argument that I'd agree fully agree with. Assuming that the abortion is done before 12 weeks. Six weeks is not really viable. It's too early to detect.

I suppose one could say, that you are denying the clump of cells the right to become life. However, IMO the mother would have the right to say I don't want to bring a kid into the world at this time. Her wants and needs would trump the cells in that case, in my opinion.
What you and Grim Jim are saying are different from each other. You’re finding the secular arguments unconvincing. Grim Jim is saying those arguments don’t even exist. You, I believe, are mistaken in assessing the secular arguments. Grim Jim, I know, is an idiot.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #549 on: May 14, 2022, 02:39:55 PM »
In regards to Grim Jim’s video, in its description he states:
“Abortion is an important right to preserve and protect and there are no secular arguments against it.”

TBH, I've not yet to see a convincing secular argument that I'd agree fully agree with. Assuming that the abortion is done before 12 weeks. Six weeks is not really viable. It's too early to detect.

I suppose one could say, that you are denying the clump of cells the right to become life. However, IMO the mother would have the right to say I don't want to bring a kid into the world at this time. Her wants and needs would trump the cells in that case, in my opinion.

Yep, she had that right, she lost it the moment she created a new life. Should have taken measures to prevent getting pregnant, it's a shame there's no such thing as contraceptives...

Fecking disingenuous twat.

Blah blah blah...

Suck my dick you little ponce.  ;D
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #550 on: May 14, 2022, 02:43:17 PM »
You, I believe, are mistaken in assessing the secular arguments. Grim Jim, I know, is an idiot.

Well, I'm open to seeing any secular arguments. But at the moment I'm finding it hard to find common ground between the 'start of life' timing and when a baby is considered a human being (as we understand it).

Admittedly it's not a clear-cut subject.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" Marcello Truzzi.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #551 on: May 14, 2022, 02:46:03 PM »
I suspect Netflix, like a number of big companies, has just seen what happened to Disney and decided 'Y'know, maybe fighting this big cultural war isn't a good idea after all.'

People want to believe 'get woke, go broke' isn't a thing. The problem is that it IS, but it's been ameliorated through (a) diversification of projects -- a movie studio can survive a bomb if it releases a blockbuster or two to make up for it, and (b) people throwing money at the problem, i.e. Larry Fink and his ESG games.

You take away the props and you get failed productions, failed companies. It's like how liberal radio talk shows have foundered repeatedly, despite incredible funding and publicity. Nobody wants to listen to them. Partly because they're shit, and partly because, well, if I wanna hear leftie talking points I can just turn on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc, etc.

The fact that Disney just got their special toy taken away -- one that they CANNOT get back, because the Florida constitution specifically bars the further establishment of those 'special districts' -- has startled a lot of people. The House of Mouse just got slapped, and they have no recourse save to fling desperate lawsuits and hope that something sticks enough that they can put off the reckoning until DeSantis is neutralized.

Pat

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #552 on: May 14, 2022, 03:24:02 PM »
I see what you're saying, man. But that's the question, I'm asking you at what stage do we consider it to be a person? The term life is nebulous at best (in the early stages).

No, it's not nebulous. It's as close as you can get to a universal scientific consensus. Life starts at conception. This is the only real certainty in the entire debate.

The only people who disagree are science-denying extremists, like you.

Rob Necronomicon

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #553 on: May 14, 2022, 03:31:01 PM »
I see what you're saying, man. But that's the question, I'm asking you at what stage do we consider it to be a person? The term life is nebulous at best (in the early stages).

No, it's not nebulous. It's as close as you can get to a universal scientific consensus. Life starts at conception. This is the only real certainty in the entire debate.

The only people who disagree are science-denying extremists, like you.

Oh, I am certainly a religiophobic extremist and a fanatic but exceedingly proud of the fact.  MMMmmmm.... Extremism. :)

Now go off and lick your little bible, pattie. And tell god just how scientific you really are. LOL.





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Pat

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #554 on: May 14, 2022, 03:36:18 PM »
I see what you're saying, man. But that's the question, I'm asking you at what stage do we consider it to be a person? The term life is nebulous at best (in the early stages).

No, it's not nebulous. It's as close as you can get to a universal scientific consensus. Life starts at conception. This is the only real certainty in the entire debate.

The only people who disagree are science-denying extremists, like you.

Oh, I am certainly a religiophobic extremist and a fanatic but exceedingly proud of the fact.  MMMmmmm.... Extremism. :)

Now go off and lick your little bible, pattie. And tell god just how scientific you really are. LOL.
You pro-life fanatics will go any ends to justify your wacked-out religious beliefs won't you? Go say your rosary, and pray that all scientists die or whatever you do in your free time.