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Author Topic: Turning the corner on "woke"?  (Read 38208 times)

Ratman_tf

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #255 on: January 08, 2022, 09:51:49 PM »
It’s not 8% vs 92%. It’s very roughly 8% supported by 42% useful idiots* who think that the 8% “mean well” even when they sound crazy, vs 50%.

*also some clever opportunists

I would even go so far as to say that the woke and non-woke activism is only a thing in large urban areas and on college campuses and is only amplified because of social media.  Most people only care once it affects them directly - a Democrat who is a shrimper in Louisiana and a Republican who is a plumber in Nebraska just want to be left alone.

Yeah, but there are clusters of them in positions to affect society. Notably for this message board, the people working at WOTC, for one example.
And from there they affect our media and entertainment.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Trond

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #256 on: January 11, 2022, 08:04:56 PM »
Very interesting article about "woke" Hollywood:

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/hollywoods-new-rules

Quote
That’s the essence of what I find disturbing about some of the stuff on the left. Does this have anything to do with making life better for anyone, or is this just a game? Is this just about making you feel superior?
Bingo!

tenbones

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #257 on: January 13, 2022, 12:12:23 PM »
It's like we turned the corner on Islam after the Crusades!

This shit ain't going anywhere, son.

Pat

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #258 on: January 14, 2022, 12:27:31 AM »
I have no faith we've turned the corner on anything.

$25 billion -- with a B -- was donated to support virulently racist causes in the wake of the worst riots since Rodney King:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/05/opinion/progressive-philanthropy-critics.html

These all contributed more than a billion each:
Ford Foundation
Mackenzie Scott
JPMorgan Chase & Co. Contributions Program
W.K. Kellogg Foundation
Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Silicon Valley Community Foundation

Hate and bigotry is alive, well, and rich.

Trond

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #259 on: January 29, 2022, 07:19:46 PM »
Is this a sign?

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/sean-penn-criticizes-men-feminized-1235166106/

Probably not….but I think I can hear the sound of axes grinding  ;D

KingCheops

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #260 on: January 29, 2022, 08:53:32 PM »
Is this a sign?

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/sean-penn-criticizes-men-feminized-1235166106/

Probably not….but I think I can hear the sound of axes grinding  ;D

Well given that he kidnapped Madonna and abused her he's kind of the epitome of "toxic masculinity" so I wouldn't necessarily take his word on gender.

Trond

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #261 on: January 30, 2022, 08:42:00 AM »

Well given that he kidnapped Madonna and abused her he's kind of the epitome of "toxic masculinity" so I wouldn't necessarily take his word on gender.

You’re taking Madonna on her word though?

Zelen

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #262 on: January 30, 2022, 10:19:45 AM »
This article* explains quite clearly why there is no end in sight

* https://theupheaval.substack.com/p/no-the-revolution-isnt-over

3catcircus

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #263 on: January 30, 2022, 10:29:48 AM »
Is this a sign?

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/sean-penn-criticizes-men-feminized-1235166106/

Probably not….but I think I can hear the sound of axes grinding  ;D

Well given that he kidnapped Madonna and abused her he's kind of the epitome of "toxic masculinity" so I wouldn't necessarily take his word on gender.

As controversial as this may sound, how do we know he abused her the way the media reported it?  No charges were filed..

As to what he recently said - he's not wrong. Masculinity and domestic abuse are mutually exclusive
 You can be a wife beater regardless of whether you're a man or a woman or a crossdresser.

More importantly, those of us who aren't already brainwashed understand his statement - boys should be allowed to play with toy guys, toy cars, etc. Girls should be allowed to play with toy dolls and tea sets. Parents shouldn't be dressing male children in dresses or female children in suits and ties...  That is - you can allow your children to explore themselves without forcing them into your own mental illness...  You can allow them independence instead of hovering over them. You can let them solve disagreements amongst themselves without intervening.

To put it another way, growing up in the 1970s was a great time to be a kid, despite inflation, economic downturn, and Vietnam.  You could play with lawn darts that'd puncture your skull and fireworks that'd blow off your fingers, the drinking age was still 18, boys could fight other boys and then moments later become best friends for life.  The he-man women haters club of the little rascals was acceptable amongst boys.  More importantly, kids of both genders would spend as little time at home as possible - hanging out with other kids, exploring the local wildlife or a pick up game of baseball or hockey, riding bikes, and only coming home when it got dark out. 

The trend towards femininity amongst boys coincides with the trend towards staring at screens all day.  I'm thankful that both of my kids are heavily involved in organized sports because it forces them to not spend all their time starting at screens.  The boy has football (primary), wrestling (cardio and flexibility), and lacrosse (agility) seasons with time at the gym interspersed and the girl has volleyball and year-round lacrosse (rec league, club team and winter indoor league) and once she's old enough, she'll be at the gym.  They're both solidly appropriate for their gender - not because my wife and I forced them - specifically because we didn't tell them to act more lady-like or act less aggressive, etc.  We didn't encourage them to wear non-gender-appropriate clothing.

Trond

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #264 on: January 31, 2022, 10:54:10 AM »
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism

HappyDaze

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #265 on: January 31, 2022, 11:18:47 AM »
So The Anti Defamation League is now defining racism as being only by white people against people of color. But doesn’t that exclude a lot of what happened during the holocaust?

https://www.adl.org/racism
That definition is from mid-2020. It's not exactly new.

Fheredin

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #266 on: January 31, 2022, 12:33:54 PM »
I think that Wokeness will break quite abruptly. Metaphorically, speaking, it's a fever of absurdist ideas, driven by people who intentionally play offense as much as possible because they are too afraid of each other to be creative, and so cannot constructively build; only destroy.

When things start going to pot--as they will when COVID's economic aftershocks catch up with us--all that will really matter is the ability to build. There will be very few things left to tear down. Economics trumps ideology every time.

3catcircus

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #267 on: January 31, 2022, 01:41:24 PM »
I think that Wokeness will break quite abruptly. Metaphorically, speaking, it's a fever of absurdist ideas, driven by people who intentionally play offense as much as possible because they are too afraid of each other to be creative, and so cannot constructively build; only destroy.

When things start going to pot--as they will when COVID's economic aftershocks catch up with us--all that will really matter is the ability to build. There will be very few things left to tear down. Economics trumps ideology every time.

The problem is that as long as there are people or organizations willing to entertain their mental illness and take them seriously, there will continue to be people who continue to exploit the wokeness grift.  It's not enough to ignore their false claims of racism or sexism or transphobia or homophobia - you need to publicly embarrass them.  Whether you like him or not, Dave Portnoy's response to the claims of abuse by former sex partners being promoted by Business Insider was to sue BI *and* publicly post the texts of his accusers that clearly illustrated that they not only liked and wanted rough sex, they came back for second helpings of it.  That direct action response to false claims is exactly what should be done in response to every woke claim.  Never issue a groveling apology for something that someone else is offended by and always go on the offensive.  Actual wrong-doing would result in criminal charges, not blackmail/extortion attempts.  Because that's what most of these woke grievances are - extortion.

Fheredin

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #268 on: January 31, 2022, 04:08:01 PM »
I think that Wokeness will break quite abruptly. Metaphorically, speaking, it's a fever of absurdist ideas, driven by people who intentionally play offense as much as possible because they are too afraid of each other to be creative, and so cannot constructively build; only destroy.

When things start going to pot--as they will when COVID's economic aftershocks catch up with us--all that will really matter is the ability to build. There will be very few things left to tear down. Economics trumps ideology every time.

The problem is that as long as there are people or organizations willing to entertain their mental illness and take them seriously, there will continue to be people who continue to exploit the wokeness grift.  It's not enough to ignore their false claims of racism or sexism or transphobia or homophobia - you need to publicly embarrass them.  Whether you like him or not, Dave Portnoy's response to the claims of abuse by former sex partners being promoted by Business Insider was to sue BI *and* publicly post the texts of his accusers that clearly illustrated that they not only liked and wanted rough sex, they came back for second helpings of it.  That direct action response to false claims is exactly what should be done in response to every woke claim.  Never issue a groveling apology for something that someone else is offended by and always go on the offensive.  Actual wrong-doing would result in criminal charges, not blackmail/extortion attempts.  Because that's what most of these woke grievances are - extortion.

I agree that the woke grievances are fundamentally extortion, but the thing is that companies can only pay extortionists as long as they have cash to pay. One of the key policy decisions the Federal Reserve will need to make soon is if it raises interest rates or lets inflation burn hot. Raising interest rates makes loans more expensive, and letting inflation run hot makes labor and labor products more expensive. In both cases, it's quite likely companies will run out of cash.

No cash? No paid off grifters. I expect most businesses when faced with bankruptcy will disregard Woke backlashes in an attempt to remain solvent, but even if I'm wrong, the companies which do try to juggle appeasement policies with actual productivity are likely to go under.

Of course, no one knows what the timeline on this looks like. I would have thought the supply chain would be where we are now a full year ago. All I can tell you is that with the US Debt to GDP at 130%, this decision cannot be avoided forever.




Trond

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Re: Turning the corner on "woke"?
« Reply #269 on: January 31, 2022, 06:30:35 PM »
So Critical Race Theory is, at it's base, looking at the legal history of the United States of America and seeing how much of our laws were designed to keep WASP men in power, and particularly to keep black folks in line beneath the WASPs. It's hard to argue that redlining didn't happen, or that 'sundown' towns didn't exist, or that several hundred people were not murdered in Tulsa, and a couple thousand more were not burned out of their homes. In order to argue against Critical Race Theory, you have to ignore all of the Jim Crow laws and all of the times when 'driving while black' got someone tossed in jail.

On the other hand, "woke" is and has always been stupid when taken out of the context of Black culture. It's a phrase coined by black folks in the South to talk about other folks (usually white but occasionally black or other race) and how well they understand what black folks go through on a daily basis. If anyone who passes the paper bag test is talking about wokeness in any form, I feel completely free to ignore them as uninformed, whether they are on the left or the right side of the spectrum.

American racism is vastly exaggerated. My wife is obviously “of color”we have traveled together throughout much of the country and we can’t tell the difference. I’d say that even the past troubles are being exaggerated even though some truly horrifying things did happen. It’s turned into a never-ending repetition of the same old stories (but always tweaked just a little, to make it seem even worse and even more one-sided than it actually was, like Tulsa), and there’s no end in sight. Such bad historical events should of course be remembered, but not turned into some sort of religious victimhood ritual. You should check out some of John McWhorter’s interviews and writings.