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Trend or Scheme Towards World Government

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jhkim:
Split from the 2300-reply year-and-a-half-long thread on 'Covid, the "lockdowns" etc.'...

This is about the question of moving towards a world government. The topic originally came up from now-banned poster SonTodoGato statement that "the covid scandal was just an excuse for a one-world, totalitarian, socialist government."  He followed that up with a bunch of quotes and images for how various leaders have been planning to impose such a government. Pundit responded specifically about the Kalergi Plan.


--- Quote from: RPGPundit on September 01, 2021, 10:05:18 AM ---But the Kalergi Plan is a 100% fraud, a myth invented 15  years ago by a neo-nazi, which promotes anti-semitic conspiracy theories. It's basically just a rewriting of the equally fraudulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which originally started out as an anti-Masonic fraud before being re-written as an anti-Jewish fraud.

--- End quote ---

--- Quote from: RPGPundit on September 01, 2021, 11:22:50 AM ---]There was a real dude, Ricard Kalergi, who was an early-20th Century promoter of the Pan-european movement (essentially, the movement to create a European Union). He was extremely liberal for his age. He was the son of an Austro-Hungarian Count and a Japanese heiress, which obviously made him quite unusual. He was not Jewish (as many of the Neo-Nazis who push the "Kalergi Plan" conspiracy theory sometimes claim), though he did marry a Jewish actress.
He was a Freemason, but only from 1922 to 1926.

He was deeply horrified by WWI, and inspired by Wilson's ideas of the League of Nations. He wrote several books in the 1920s where he promoted the idea of Pan-Europeanism. He came up with the idea that Beethoven's Ode to Joy should be the "national anthem of Europe", which is really likely his most lasting influence on the modern world.

Though the Neo-Nazis present him as if he was a communist, but in fact in his writings he pleaded the case for a European Union as the only possible protection against Soviet takeover. He was an anti-Communist.  His ideas were very socially progressive but fundamentally conservative, and his closest political ties were to Austrian archconservative parties.

He was moderately well-known in European intellectual circles by the early 1930s. Obviously, Hitler absolutely despised him, once calling Kalergi a "nasty mongrel" and "agent of International Jewry and Freemasonry".

Anyways, Kalergi escaped Europe during WWII, and later returned after the war was over, and was certainly influential in some of the early stages of the creation of what would become the European Union. He died in 1972.

And he was practically forgotten; until 2005, when an Austrian Neo-Nazi named Gerd Honsik, on the run from the law in Spain, published a book called "The Kalergi Plan", in which he combined actual quotes from Kalergi's own books about pan-europeanism with material written by the Nazis in the 1930s and 40s and with parts taken right out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, to formulate the claim that Kalergi was the mastermind of an organized conspiracy with a big mix of political and intellectual leaders to institute a long-term project to exterminate the "white race" by a mix of socialism and mass-immigration to produce a servile society that would be ruled in authoritarian fashion by a "Judeo-Masonic Elite".

It was total bullshit of course, there was no such plan, but it touched on all kinds of narratives of modern Neo-Nazism and made the perfect storm for a less besmirched replacement for the Protocols.  Pretty much everyone knows that the Protocols are bullshit now, but you could still try to fools some people with legitimate concerns about things like immigration or socialism into thinking the Kalergi Plan was real.
--- End quote ---

So there wasn't a secret plan for world government. Instead, there are a lot of people who ideologically favor broader cooperation worldwide such as the UN or EU. I think there is a reasonable claim that things like the United Nations and the European Union are steps towards a world government, but they're not part of a secret plan to impose a totalitarian state. They were openly pursued for their own sakes. For actual vision of a world government, SonTodoGao cited H.G. Wells, but I pointed out that plenty of more conservative science fiction like Buck Rogers and Starship Troopers also imagined a world government - one that was founded on conservative principles. As far as the general trend of history, I find that both modern liberals and conservatives tend to go on about how the world is turning horrible -- i.e. "just look at the headlines, everything is going to shit!" So many imagine a dystopian society of the future - but some instead have a more positive picture. While there are some negative trends in history, there are also positive trends - both worldwide and within individual countries. Both liberal and conservative thinkers have imagined that humanity might progress positively towards a world government.

Phrased as a question then, are we moving towards a world government, and if so, what is driving it?

RPGPundit:
To be fair, in Kalergi's writings he did clearly dream of an eventual worldwide government, divided into zones for each continent.

He just didn't have any kind of secret (or public) step-by-step plan for how it would come about. He just presumed it eventually would, and Pan-europeanism would be one of its early stages.

oggsmash:
 A World government can really only exist as an empire would.  Where lots of people with completely different values and outlooks on life are "together" as one government.  The problem with empires is, they all fall, and usually in a catastrophic fashion. 

  I do feel we are moving towards one world government, but I do not think there is some grand plan.  I think the real powers in the world, massive multinational corporations just want a bigger bottom line.  The more people they can sell to the more they make.  So they are going to push, at every turn to get the cheapest labor, sell to the highest earners, and go through one set of red tape, and make as many regulations behind them to kill competition. 

   I also think lots of big brains get too far removed from regular old people and forget that there is a breaking point as to what people will take (taxes to pay for someone else to be taken care of, wars that never end to "make the world safer", saying we are all safer if no one has a gun, whatever.) that pushes on their worldview.  Too big an umbrella IMO gets people who do not like one another too close together. 

   The MAIN reason I think there is no real, ONE plan to move to world government, despite there being plenty of people who are all for the idea, is ego clashing.   The same sort of people who feel they can come up with the best way to have everyone live their lives, have MASSIVE egos.  They are not going to compromise or work all that well with other massive egos.  So I have some doubts there is anytime in the near future, any sort of effective plan to create a real world government.

oggsmash:
  Not that lack of an effective plan will stop the same dipshits from trying things, that are probably going to be afghanistan type disasters.

Mistwell:

--- Quote from: oggsmash on September 02, 2021, 01:21:25 PM --- A World government can really only exist as an empire would.  Where lots of people with completely different values and outlooks on life are "together" as one government.  The problem with empires is, they all fall, and usually in a catastrophic fashion. 

  I do feel we are moving towards one world government, but I do not think there is some grand plan.  I think the real powers in the world, massive multinational corporations just want a bigger bottom line.  The more people they can sell to the more they make.  So they are going to push, at every turn to get the cheapest labor, sell to the highest earners, and go through one set of red tape, and make as many regulations behind them to kill competition. 

   I also think lots of big brains get too far removed from regular old people and forget that there is a breaking point as to what people will take (taxes to pay for someone else to be taken care of, wars that never end to "make the world safer", saying we are all safer if no one has a gun, whatever.) that pushes on their worldview.  Too big an umbrella IMO gets people who do not like one another too close together. 

   The MAIN reason I think there is no real, ONE plan to move to world government, despite there being plenty of people who are all for the idea, is ego clashing.   The same sort of people who feel they can come up with the best way to have everyone live their lives, have MASSIVE egos.  They are not going to compromise or work all that well with other massive egos.  So I have some doubts there is anytime in the near future, any sort of effective plan to create a real world government.

--- End quote ---

Since we're speculating, let's assume there is other intelligent life in the universe. And assume that some multiple groups of intelligent life have come together to work under a unified alliance of some sort. And they find us or otherwise make contact, and given the nature of the universes politics or economics in our corner of the galaxy it would be highly beneficial to earth that we join. But, membership requires we have a world government.

That, I think, is a scenario which can lead to a world government not involving an empire.

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