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Author Topic: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government  (Read 3387 times)

jhkim

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2021, 09:48:48 PM »
You're assuming it will be possible to break away. But with the panopticon taking form in places like London and Berlin, there will be no place you can meet or join with other like-minded people without being tracked and observed. With the censorship of social media, the warrantless monitoring of your every action on the internet, and the uberstasi watching it all for any trace of misinformation, hate speech, or any other kind of wrongthink, there will be no place left to speak. And with the use of AI to monitor that vast flow of information for patterns, and draw conclusions, even your hidden personal thoughts may be exposed. Combine that with drones and other technologies that allow the mostly automated application of overwhelming and precise force en masse, a tiny handful of elites will be able to indefinitely suppress the teeming masses.

I'd say that technology has always been a double-edged sword - as shown by the success of technology like bitcoin. Even low-tech solutions can work fine, as shown by the success of the Taliban. In my opinion, it's not that the Taliban were some sort of military geniuses - it's that the vaunted power of surveillance and drones and such are overrated.

As someone now working in the AI field, I think the ability of AI to mind control people is overrated. I do think that social media is addictive, in ways stronger than alcohol or existing drugs. But for the foreseeable future, I think convincing people of an opinion will be something at most handled by human creativity.

Pat

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2021, 11:18:39 PM »
Quote
I fear the inevitable future is a perpetual boot, grinding away the last traces of humanity diversity and thought.
Certainly a potential future but the reason it won't happen is because there are always enough people in influence with strong principles.
Name one significant political figure in the US with any principles.

Bernie was the closest thing to a principled thinker on the left, and he sold out for a new house. AOC, if she ever qualified, quickly became Pelosi's lapdog. Rand Paul a bit, but he suffers in comparison to his father. Maybe one or two other Republicans like Massie might show a shred of principle here and there. But they'll be co-opted, marginalized and challenged by establishment candidates with vastly more funding, or if they manage to hold on, will become lone voices in the wilderness who are studiously ignored by the mainstream.

The boot is coming.

Pat

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2021, 11:35:32 PM »
You're assuming it will be possible to break away. But with the panopticon taking form in places like London and Berlin, there will be no place you can meet or join with other like-minded people without being tracked and observed. With the censorship of social media, the warrantless monitoring of your every action on the internet, and the uberstasi watching it all for any trace of misinformation, hate speech, or any other kind of wrongthink, there will be no place left to speak. And with the use of AI to monitor that vast flow of information for patterns, and draw conclusions, even your hidden personal thoughts may be exposed. Combine that with drones and other technologies that allow the mostly automated application of overwhelming and precise force en masse, a tiny handful of elites will be able to indefinitely suppress the teeming masses.

I'd say that technology has always been a double-edged sword - as shown by the success of technology like bitcoin. Even low-tech solutions can work fine, as shown by the success of the Taliban. In my opinion, it's not that the Taliban were some sort of military geniuses - it's that the vaunted power of surveillance and drones and such are overrated.

As someone now working in the AI field, I think the ability of AI to mind control people is overrated. I do think that social media is addictive, in ways stronger than alcohol or existing drugs. But for the foreseeable future, I think convincing people of an opinion will be something at most handled by human creativity.
Nobody said a thing about mind control. Once again, you're making up shit that isn't my posts in order to create strawmen you can knock down while pretending you're responding to me.

What deep learning is good at is pattern recognition, not the MK Ultra crap you're spouting. It allows China to identify people by their gait, and combined with networked cameras everywhere allows them to track everywhere they go and everyone they meet in real time throughout their entire lives. That in itself will make resistance almost impossible. It can also be used to scan social media posts, and identify political leanings based on seemingly inconsequential data, like your drink preferences. How exactly can you hide everything you are at all times? It's not humanly possible. AI can be used for analysis, censorship, and drawing connections.

The whole part about the Taliban also completely fails to address the issue being discussed. The US didn't put 100 cameras on every street corner and have drones patrolling every block, so it's nonsensical to call it out as an example of the pantopticon failing. Drones aren't a threat because a Predator can blow up weddings; they're a threat because they're starting to be used for precise assassinations and deployed en masse, and are getting better every day. They are the precise application of force on a scale that previously required flesh and blood grunts going from door to door, and we're seeing clear signs they're starting to overcome the main limitations associated with urban warfare, or to be more direct, the suppression of a population by a police state. We're not there yet, but it's the surveillance state combined with AI-based tools to basically track everything everyone does and deduce potential threats or wrongthink based on seemingly random and irrational but demonstrably accurate data points, and the remote and scalpel-like application of force with very little effort or cost, that could lead to an eternal state where the masses have no ability to resist the ruling elite.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 11:44:28 PM by Pat »

Zelen

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2021, 10:08:10 AM »
We're not there yet, but it's the surveillance state combined with AI-based tools to basically track everything everyone does and deduce potential threats or wrongthink based on seemingly random and irrational but demonstrably accurate data points, and the remote and scalpel-like application of force with very little effort or cost, that could lead to an eternal state where the masses have no ability to resist the ruling elite.

It doesn't even need to be "demonstrably accurate" data points when you have state-controlled propaganda on your side. You can kill US military veterans in political demonstrations, murder political opponents in the street, or drone strike an aid worker and his family, for example, and no one will really care as long as the state-controlled propaganda buries the story or makes up some lie about whoever was assassinated.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 10:17:00 AM by Zelen »

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2021, 01:29:15 PM »
What deep learning is good at is pattern recognition.... It allows China to identify people by their gait, and combined with networked cameras everywhere allows them to track everywhere they go and everyone they meet in real time throughout their entire lives.

Walk without rhythm, and you won't attract the worm.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Pat

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2021, 01:33:14 PM »
What deep learning is good at is pattern recognition.... It allows China to identify people by their gait, and combined with networked cameras everywhere allows them to track everywhere they go and everyone they meet in real time throughout their entire lives.

Walk without rhythm, and you won't attract the worm.
Slim Walken's best work.

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2021, 07:51:04 PM »
What deep learning is good at is pattern recognition.... It allows China to identify people by their gait, and combined with networked cameras everywhere allows them to track everywhere they go and everyone they meet in real time throughout their entire lives.

Walk without rhythm, and you won't attract the worm.
Slim Walken's best work.

It's up there, though I have a soft spot for The Prophecy.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Neoplatonist1

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Re: Trend or Scheme Towards World Government
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2021, 08:44:15 PM »
Phrased as a question then, are we moving towards a world government, and if so, what is driving it?

Let's say there is an intention for the powerful to seek more power. These powerful people are ministered to by managers and operatives, who, in one way or another, owe their success in life to them. Thus, any explicit or even implicit desire by the powerful, tends to lead to enterprising managers deploying operatives to do things that might please the powerful. As Muhammed Ali once said, "Tell me when I'm wrong."

In specific terms, we have the Anglo-American liberal establishment with the biggest piece of the power pie, the greatest reach, the longest head-start, the deepest coffers, the best connections, the most pliable populations, and thus with the greatest inward groaning towards more power.

The first thing to realize is that this grooming process has been going on for centuries, and is behind the ideological and philosophical meta-political warfare that's been atomized into training the population to believe in mysterious and unrelated pop-ups of random "genius" thinkers or artists, who exist in political vacuums and are washed away by the tides of history. For them, there is no pedigree of epistemological thought, there is no elite-serving intention (witting) or utility (unwitting) behind a Marx, or a Gauss, or a Schiller, or a Poe; there is no history of opposing civilizational impulses locked in mortal combat vying for total control of mankind.

The second thing to realize is that as a result of this grooming process, 99.9% of everything in pop culture is propaganda training the mind to continue to believe in the pop-up random genius worldview, the severing of the mind from the epistemological artery of genuinely human life and genuinely human history. So, instead, we have a pantheon of entertainment "amusing ourselves to death" including softball (RPGs) and hardball (riots) versions.