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Author Topic: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery  (Read 5442 times)

jhkim

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2022, 02:48:36 PM »
This thesis of how this is not about being anti-white but being pro-woke is enlightening, I had not thought about that.

Personally I think this woke magazine is destined to fail, but lets see if they get to make any money while pressing on their woke ideology.

Did anybody read their #0 issue? Is it any good? At this point I would rather not put my own personal time to check it out without having seen any review here.

I downloaded issue #0 to see what people were talking about, but I only skimmed the stories. I'm not sure how to compare them apples to apples, since I haven't read any other contemporary S&S fiction magazines. I've read collections of classic R.E. Howard, Charles Saunders, and others. However, that's selectively picking best stories of top authors, which isn't a fair comparison with a magazine starting up.

psiconauta_retro

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2022, 10:37:49 PM »
This thesis of how this is not about being anti-white but being pro-woke is enlightening, I had not thought about that.

Personally I think this woke magazine is destined to fail, but lets see if they get to make any money while pressing on their woke ideology.

Did anybody read their #0 issue? Is it any good? At this point I would rather not put my own personal time to check it out without having seen any review here.

I downloaded issue #0 to see what people were talking about, but I only skimmed the stories. I'm not sure how to compare them apples to apples, since I haven't read any other contemporary S&S fiction magazines. I've read collections of classic R.E. Howard, Charles Saunders, and others. However, that's selectively picking best stories of top authors, which isn't a fair comparison with a magazine starting up.
Thank you, I will download the issue #0 and have a look.

Did you notice in any way the diversity and inclusiveness? Do you feel it would be any different without them? I also have not ready any other  contemporary S&S fiction magazines so I don't have any point of reference.

I don’t know if it is possible to answer this, but does it feel particularly "woke"?

I have been thinking that the editor may not be suitable for that position. If he really did practice what he preaches then that position should be filled by somebody more... "diverse".

JeremyR

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2023, 03:05:37 AM »
Not a magazine, but if you have Kindle Unlimited, there's a 2 year running monthly (or so) S&S book (3-4 stories per book) called Savage Realms.

There's also the very long and excellent collection Sword of the Four Winds by Daniel Quiogue which is Sword & Sorcery from various different Eastern culture, ranging from Filipino to Polynesian to I guess Malaysia? He calls it "Sword & Silk"

jhkim

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2023, 12:05:13 PM »
Sorry to psiconauta_retro, I realized that there was a question I had left hanging for a while.

I downloaded issue #0 to see what people were talking about, but I only skimmed the stories. I'm not sure how to compare them apples to apples, since I haven't read any other contemporary S&S fiction magazines. I've read collections of classic R.E. Howard, Charles Saunders, and others. However, that's selectively picking best stories of top authors, which isn't a fair comparison with a magazine starting up.

Thank you, I will download the issue #0 and have a look.

Did you notice in any way the diversity and inclusiveness? Do you feel it would be any different without them? I also have not ready any other  contemporary S&S fiction magazines so I don't have any point of reference.

I don’t know if it is possible to answer this, but does it feel particularly "woke"?

I can try answering about woke feel, but standards differ. It started with a Mongol-inspired story that didn't seem particularly woke from the first page, but I didn't read the rest. It's easily possible that there were more woke aspects to the stories. From flipping through, it seemed noticeable that there were multiple non-European based settings and multiple female protagonists.

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2023, 01:51:43 PM »
It started with a Mongol-inspired story that didn't seem particularly woke from the first page, but I didn't read the rest. It's easily possible that there were more woke aspects to the stories. From flipping through, it seemed noticeable that there were multiple non-European based settings and multiple female protagonists.

The real question we should all be asking, of course is: Were any of the stories good? Were they entertaining, exciting, interesting, enjoyable, moving?

I have no objection to what used to be called "non-vanilla" protagonists, as long as the stories they're in are good stories and not exercises in browbeating the Straight White Audience into reparations-inspiring guilt.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Ratman_tf

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2023, 07:50:16 PM »
It started with a Mongol-inspired story that didn't seem particularly woke from the first page, but I didn't read the rest. It's easily possible that there were more woke aspects to the stories. From flipping through, it seemed noticeable that there were multiple non-European based settings and multiple female protagonists.

The real question we should all be asking, of course is: Were any of the stories good? Were they entertaining, exciting, interesting, enjoyable, moving?

I have no objection to what used to be called "non-vanilla" protagonists, as long as the stories they're in are good stories and not exercises in browbeating the Straight White Audience into reparations-inspiring guilt.

How can we beat racism unless we tell white people who are against racism that racism am bad?
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Thorn Drumheller

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2023, 05:00:36 PM »
It started with a Mongol-inspired story that didn't seem particularly woke from the first page, but I didn't read the rest. It's easily possible that there were more woke aspects to the stories. From flipping through, it seemed noticeable that there were multiple non-European based settings and multiple female protagonists.

The real question we should all be asking, of course is: Were any of the stories good? Were they entertaining, exciting, interesting, enjoyable, moving?

I have no objection to what used to be called "non-vanilla" protagonists, as long as the stories they're in are good stories and not exercises in browbeating the Straight White Audience into reparations-inspiring guilt.

How can we beat racism unless we tell white people who are against racism that racism am bad?

Yes this ^^^^^^^

Us white people who hate racism are bad cause we're white
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BoxCrayonTales

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2023, 06:27:21 PM »
Even literal Africans think it's cringy. https://youtu.be/iYJ48s2I5qw

Sure, they had slavery and colonialism in their pasts. It was terrible for them. But rather than dwell on the horrors of the past and obsess over getting revenge, they work towards building brighter futures. It's really inspiring.

Spinachcat

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2023, 08:22:11 PM »
"Everything woke turns to shit."

LOL. That cover is painful and speaks volumes about the publisher's lack of common sense.

All the "Diversity, Equity, Inclusion" blah blah bullshit is just more blatant anti-Whitism from worthless scumbags, but what else is new in clown world?


Eirikrautha

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2023, 06:52:51 AM »
Even literal Africans think it's cringy. https://youtu.be/iYJ48s2I5qw

Sure, they had slavery and colonialism in their pasts present. It was is terrible for them.

The worst thing about the woke left is that they are so determined to justify their destruction of western culture that they are willing to ignore slavery in the present in order to weaponize slavery in the past.  It's disgusting.

jhkim

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2023, 05:07:36 PM »
Even literal Africans think it's cringy. https://youtu.be/iYJ48s2I5qw

Sure, they had slavery and colonialism in their pasts. It was terrible for them. But rather than dwell on the horrors of the past and obsess over getting revenge, they work towards building brighter futures. It's really inspiring.

So from watching the video... I haven't seen The Woman King, but complaining that Black Panther doesn't realistically represent modern African countries is just stupid. Wakanda is a fictional country from a superhero comic book. It is intentionally unique and fantastical, with its own religion and crazy technology. I'll admit to some bias since I love the comics - particularly the Christopher Priest run from the 1990s - but this seems petty.

The Black Panther comics and the Black Panther movies shouldn't have to represent all of Africa. I can see complaining that modern African countries should be better represented in movies, but I don't think Black Panther should be expected to do so.

I'd complain much more about movie adaptations set in real African countries, like Black Hawk Down. One of the fascinating parts of that book was when it interviewed local civilian residents who were on the scene as the military action was going down. But that side of the story was completely cut out of the movie.

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Going back to Sword & Sorcery, I think it would also be fair to say that the Imaro stories by Charles Saunders don't accurately reflect African history -- which again is not the point. They don't and they shouldn't have to.

Thorn Drumheller

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Re: Towards a more inclusive Sword & Sorcery
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2023, 05:36:34 PM »
So idk why I was thinking about this thread today. But it occurred to me how the person who wants to make S&S inclusive just doesn't get it.

I then thought, can we cancel and go after the romance novel industry? I feel like I'm not represented in romance novels. I'm not rich, I'm not ripped/shredded, I'm not a world traveler. I can cook, but just normal things. Can we get romance writers to make me a love interest in the story? LOL

Anyway, random I know but still made me laugh.
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