TheRPGSite

Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: critical_fumble on April 17, 2021, 07:50:30 AM

Title: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 17, 2021, 07:50:30 AM
Let me start off by saying that I did some searching but couldn't find any references to this.

I had recently seen the game Thousand Year Old Vampire popping up in a few of the solo rpg channels I follow on youtube.  I went and checked it out on drivethrurpg, but saw that a better print option may be available elsewhere.  So I went and found the game's homepage and was immediately presented with this at the top:

Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

Aside from some obvious virtue signaling, which certainly isn't uncommon, this rather floored me. Who tells people not to buy their product?!  Is this more common than I realize? 
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 17, 2021, 03:25:09 PM
Note: I realize this thread is still awaiting approval, but I keep thinking about it and wanted to share some more thoughts on it.

For one thing, I find it to be a terrible business decision to tell nearly half of America that you don't want their money.

Also, I think there is some serious irony here. The game, from what I gathered from seeing some actual play, is about you taking on the role of a person who becomes a vampire, against their will, and slowly/quickly becoming evil. I daresay it's almost about empathizing with an "evil" creature. I'm sure one can't help but understand some of the choices that are made since you're them in the story. The irony is, you could envision a version of this game where you could play as any other "evil" person...say perhaps a Trump supporter (since they are specifically called out on the website's rant), and roleplay successive decisions leading you down the path of what you consider folly. Or, perhaps closer to the original theme of the game, you could roleplay as a cut-throat salesperson, stepping on "little" people as you climb the ladder to CEO of a mega corporation. I guess I find it bizarre that the author of a game that, at least to me, is partly about trying to understand something you consider evil, would make a sweeping declaration that they don't want anything to do with someone who thinks differently than them.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 17, 2021, 04:41:47 PM
Lots of people this isn't even the most high profile. Some assholes are still so clenched over Fred Hicks telling chuds not to buy Fate of Cthulhu engineers are studying them for adhesive properties.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 17, 2021, 04:46:30 PM
Lots of people this isn't even the most high profile. Some assholes are still so clenched over Fred Hicks telling chuds not to buy Fate of Cthulhu engineers are studying them for adhesive properties.

I had to go look up "chud". 

I guess it's just that this example seemed extreme given the theme of the game itself.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 17, 2021, 05:08:56 PM
Lots of people this isn't even the most high profile. Some assholes are still so clenched over Fred Hicks telling chuds not to buy Fate of Cthulhu engineers are studying them for adhesive properties.

I had to go look up "chud". 

I guess it's just that this example seemed extreme given the theme of the game itself.

Nah it's a safe tactic, telling people who won't buy your game anyway not to buy your game. They get butthurt and continue to not by the game and people who don't like em are impressed by your brave stance and buy the game. Real easy choir preaching for cash.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 17, 2021, 05:11:54 PM
Lots of people this isn't even the most high profile. Some assholes are still so clenched over Fred Hicks telling chuds not to buy Fate of Cthulhu engineers are studying them for adhesive properties.

I had to go look up "chud". 

I guess it's just that this example seemed extreme given the theme of the game itself.

Nah it's a safe tactic, telling people who won't buy your game anyway not to buy your game. They get butthurt and continue to not by the game and people who don't like em are impressed by your brave stance and buy the game. Real easy choir preaching for cash.

Well, I don't meet the author's checklist of evil, but as soon as I saw his stance he lost my sale.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 17, 2021, 05:15:30 PM
Lots of people this isn't even the most high profile. Some assholes are still so clenched over Fred Hicks telling chuds not to buy Fate of Cthulhu engineers are studying them for adhesive properties.

I had to go look up "chud". 

I guess it's just that this example seemed extreme given the theme of the game itself.

Nah it's a safe tactic, telling people who won't buy your game anyway not to buy your game. They get butthurt and continue to not by the game and people who don't like em are impressed by your brave stance and buy the game. Real easy choir preaching for cash.

Well, I don't meet the author's checklist of evil, but as soon as I saw his stance he lost my sale.

Better write him to tell him and hope he didn't get two more from having the checklist I guess.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Thornhammer on April 17, 2021, 09:19:08 PM
Saw that “request” a month or two back. Decided that I don’t want to hurt his feelings, so if I really need a copy I’ll obtain one in a fashion that will not cause his wallet to cry out in distress.

Because I’m a hell of a nice guy like that.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 17, 2021, 09:45:14 PM
I mean it's a journaling game. I am not butthurt about a person putting his politics up front and I still don't want it because I can just, idk, write shit? Without prompts.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: KingCheops on April 17, 2021, 10:25:17 PM
What a fucking cunt.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 17, 2021, 10:57:24 PM

Looked up Tim Hutchings

He calls himself a Professor, but he is an Instructor in Game Design from Portland, OR. Imagine my shock.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 17, 2021, 11:02:24 PM
One more thing: "If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo."


My wife and I are immigrants in USA. The more I read stuff like the above, the more sympathy I feel for the rednecks, cowboys, hillbillies, and general so-called "white trash" of America. They are usually much better people than this guy.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: oggsmash on April 18, 2021, 01:58:55 AM
So the "near" right, is that just left of the old center? Or is that just right of the new center?  The guy is off his rocker.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2021, 12:24:36 PM
The idea that someone you despise could like something that you do (or create) infuriates these wokescolds. It suggests that they might have something in common with someone they despsie.
And we can't have that.
I'm fairly certain these cretins would try to stop breathing if someone pointed out that Trump voters breathe.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 18, 2021, 02:03:47 PM
The idea that someone you despise could like something that you do (or create) infuriates these wokescolds. It suggests that they might have something in common with someone they despsie.
And we can't have that.

I am once again asking how many people here would seriously have bought this journaling game or The Watch or Thirsty Sword Lesbians if not for the note saying Nazis fuck off in each. Shit sells better for their demo. So what if you don't like it?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2021, 03:11:19 PM
The idea that someone you despise could like something that you do (or create) infuriates these wokescolds. It suggests that they might have something in common with someone they despsie.
And we can't have that.

I am once again asking how many people here would seriously have bought this journaling game or The Watch or Thirsty Sword Lesbians if not for the note saying Nazis fuck off in each. Shit sells better for their demo. So what if you don't like it?

I talk about lots of shit I don't like, and no one is forcing you to read these kinds of threads.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 18, 2021, 03:22:09 PM
Sure, I jerk off my tastes and rip on everybody else's all the time, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking it's some kinda moral stance against The Wokescold Menace. Just drop the pretense and enjoy being a dick for its own sake.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Ratman_tf on April 18, 2021, 04:04:36 PM
Sure, I jerk off my tastes and rip on everybody else's all the time, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking it's some kinda moral stance against The Wokescold Menace. Just drop the pretense and enjoy being a dick for its own sake.

It's more a practical issue than a moral one for me. I dislike the wokescolds intrusion into the hobby, and encourage those who dislike it to be vocal as well. If they can bitch about their activist topics in RPGs, then we can bitch about their horrible takes, and may the loudest bitchers win.

Plus, I don't try to be a dick about it, unless the person I'm conversing with starts being a dick.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: HappyDaze on April 18, 2021, 05:32:23 PM
Plus, I don't try to be a dick about it, unless the person I'm conversing with starts being a dick.
And here he goes again with alternative facts.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 18, 2021, 10:14:37 PM
Sure, I jerk off my tastes and rip on everybody else's all the time, but I'm not gonna delude myself into thinking it's some kinda moral stance against The Wokescold Menace. Just drop the pretense and enjoy being a dick for its own sake.

It's more a practical issue than a moral one for me. I dislike the wokescolds intrusion into the hobby, and encourage those who dislike it to be vocal as well. If they can bitch about their activist topics in RPGs, then we can bitch about their horrible takes, and may the loudest bitchers win.

Idk how that's gonna happen when both bitchers have self-segregated into their little online fiefdoms but w/e, if it's practical for you then it's practical.

Quote
Plus, I don't try to be a dick about it, unless the person I'm conversing with starts being a dick.

Weird.
Dislike
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Melan on April 19, 2021, 04:43:12 AM
Nah it's a safe tactic, telling people who won't buy your game anyway not to buy your game. They get butthurt and continue to not by the game and people who don't like em are impressed by your brave stance and buy the game. Real easy choir preaching for cash.
Correct. Nobody who wasn't already deep in the storygame / woke twitter community would buy this game anyway. The people he despises will not even see his creation unless pointed to it, since they move in different circles.

Now yes, the woke left's tendency to write off (roughly) half of the US as irredeemably evil and worthy only of punishment is an alarming trend, and one which shall eventually have terrible consequences. This disclaimer is just sad, and speaks more about the author than his targets.

Portland, OR
Many such cases!
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: KingCheops on April 19, 2021, 11:02:23 AM
Nah it's a safe tactic, telling people who won't buy your game anyway not to buy your game. They get butthurt and continue to not by the game and people who don't like em are impressed by your brave stance and buy the game. Real easy choir preaching for cash.
Correct. Nobody who wasn't already deep in the storygame / woke twitter community would buy this game anyway. The people he despises will not even see his creation unless pointed to it, since they move in different circles.

Now yes, the woke left's tendency to write off (roughly) half of the US as irredeemably evil and worthy only of punishment is an alarming trend, and one which shall eventually have terrible consequences. This disclaimer is just sad, and speaks more about the author than his targets.

Portland, OR
Many such cases!

If the US is at all like Canada it is rapidly going past more than half hating the wokescolds.  Irredeemable "liberals" up here are starting to get angry at these people (scare quotes to indicate socialist democrats not actual Liberals who believe in Liberalism).
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 19, 2021, 11:18:09 AM
Correct. Nobody who wasn't already deep in the storygame / woke twitter community would buy this game anyway. The people he despises will not even see his creation unless pointed to it, since they move in different circles.

dude you're not supposed to say I'm right about anything I have a reputation to maintain here


Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 19, 2021, 11:30:22 AM
Correct. Nobody who wasn't already deep in the storygame / woke twitter community would buy this game anyway. The people he despises will not even see his creation unless pointed to it, since they move in different circles.

It's disheartening to see this false dichotomy. 

I feel the need to reiterate that *I was going to purchase this product until I accidentally saw their rant*.  It's possible, and probably more common than people realize, that someone can be interested in both osr or crunchy games and games that involve something like thought experiments or writing.  I don't feel the need to put myself in one camp or the other, nor should anyone else.  I haven't even *looked* at twitter in several years, only recently looking at it again this past year just so I wouldn't miss out on any of the hilarious Trump tweets (love or hate him, you can't deny some of his tweets were hilarious for one reason or another). Now that he's off it, I don't bother going there as most of it is worthless to me. 

I don't see why it's so hard for people to allow others to enjoy whatever type of gaming they want.  Now, when people try to have a product taken down or censored, or even worse, to create legislation that will do it for them, then that's something to fight against if you can.

p.s. as far as the rivalry between the storytelling and dm-is-god camps, that's something that has been ongoing since the inception of d&d.  It's an interesting topic and I recommend reading The Elusive Shift by Jon Peterson.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 19, 2021, 11:39:50 AM
Correct. Nobody who wasn't already deep in the storygame / woke twitter community would buy this game anyway. The people he despises will not even see his creation unless pointed to it, since they move in different circles.

It's disheartening to see this false dichotomy. 

I feel the need to reiterate that *I was going to purchase this product until I accidentally saw their rant*.  It's possible, and probably more common than people realize, that someone can be interested in both osr or crunchy games and games that involve something like thought experiments or writing.  I don't feel the need to put myself in one camp or the other, nor should anyone else.  I haven't even *looked* at twitter in several years, only recently looking at it again this past year just so I wouldn't miss out on any of the hilarious Trump tweets (love or hate him, you can't deny some of his tweets were hilarious for one reason or another). Now that he's off it, I don't bother going there as most of it is worthless to me. 

I don't see why it's so hard for people to allow others to enjoy whatever type of gaming they want.  Now, when people try to have a product taken down or censored, or even worse, to create legislation that will do it for them, then that's something to fight against if you can.

Idk man I'm not into journaling games at all (like I said I can just write shit if I wanna) and my issue is that this and other "No Nazis allow" slogans are written like shit. I mean look at this fucking thing:

Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo

written like somebody who watched too much West Wing thinking this is an epic beatdown or a clapback or whatever the fuck.

Look at the distinction between "universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that" and all he can follow up with at the end is "shoo." Shoo. That shit is so twee it'd get a thirty-post gif thread on Superwholock Tumblr. That's the strongest thing he can come up with? Even a "fuck off" would be better.

It's so fuckin sincere that it gives up all style. What a goddamn waste.

But apart from all that yeah I'm pretty sure you're in a real minority re: People who woulda bought this game but for a bland no-nazis sign.

Quote
p.s. as far as the rivalry between the storytelling and dm-is-god camps, that's something that has been ongoing since the inception of d&d.  It's an interesting topic and I recommend reading The Elusive Shift by Jon Peterson.

Sounds neat I'll check it out.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 19, 2021, 11:56:57 AM
Idk man I'm not into journaling games at all (like I said I can just write shit if I wanna) and my issue is that this and other "No Nazis allow" slogans are written like shit. I mean look at this fucking thing:

written like somebody who watched too much West Wing thinking this is an epic beatdown or a clapback or whatever the fuck.

Look at the distinction between "universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that" and all he can follow up with at the end is "shoo." Shoo. That shit is so twee it'd get a thirty-post gif thread on Superwholock Tumblr. That's the strongest thing he can come up with? Even a "fuck off" would be better.

It's so fuckin sincere that it gives up all style. What a goddamn waste.

But apart from all that yeah I'm pretty sure you're in a real minority re: People who woulda bought this game but for a bland no-nazis sign.

Yeah, I mean the message unsettled me enough that I started searching to see if anyone was discussing it before posting here.  I didn't post it to start a flame war or anything, I just needed to talk about it with people who wouldn't ban me or blacklist me just for having an issue with the intent of that message.  Even here, where I knew I would *probably* be able to start a thread on it (took quite a while to get approved, not sure if that's normal here or if it was just because I'm a newb), I wondered if it was worth it because I wasn't sure if I'd be able to have some actual discourse without it devolving into rage, or just being outright sneered at for having considered purchasing the game.

I do understand the anger. I even understand the woke crowd fluffing themselves up and going on outrage-safaris, looking for anything they can find that will let them be a "hero" for a moment and make them feel like they're making a difference.  I think it's wrong and dangerous, but it's a deep cultural problem now.  I could go on as I've given it a lot of thought, but I'll stop there for now.

To continue the conversation though, since people here (yourself included) seemed to dismiss this author's particular rant as nothing special, I am very interested in how you find this stuff?  Is there a particular site you go to that keeps you up to date on all the latest woke news?  Is it just this forum?  Or do you have time to crawl the web and all the various blogs/twitter feeds/etc?  If there is a site that has it all in one place, does it just make your mood generally miserable?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 19, 2021, 12:16:19 PM
Idk about other people but I pick this shit up through twitter osmosis. See who's mad about what on any given day and do some sleuthing to work back to the source of the anger. Then I go to swipe a pdf of the thing as needed on certain locations of record which i cannot and must not recall here and check out the text if I need to.

I made a goof about needing RPG.net in another thread bc how else would we know when all the sex crimes in the industry happen, but tbr I haven't used that placed for that in years, social media's quicker on the draw.

My mood was already miserable so that's not an issue, I wanna see the industry as it stands die and take glee in watching it happen. Sad!
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 19, 2021, 12:25:26 PM
Idk about other people but I pick this shit up through twitter osmosis. See who's mad about what on any given day and do some sleuthing to work back to the source of the anger. Then I go to swipe a pdf of the thing as needed on certain locations of record which i cannot and must not recall here and check out the text if I need to.

I made a goof about needing RPG.net in another thread bc how else would we know when all the sex crimes in the industry happen, but tbr I haven't used that placed for that in years, social media's quicker on the draw.

My mood was already miserable so that's not an issue, I wanna see the industry as it stands die and take glee in watching it happen. Sad!

Yeah, I have briefly checked out that other forum lately.  I remembered going there years ago, and I don't recall it being anywhere near as bad as it is now.  But when I've gone there in the past few weeks/months, just seeing the little popups or pinned messages at the top is enough to keep me from really going into anything deeply.  I think the last time I went there was just to see their huge ban thread and to be amazed at the contents. Even their fans must walk on eggshells, always wondering when their neck will be next on the chopping block.

And I agree, I can't wait for them to devour themselves.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Shasarak on April 19, 2021, 06:49:31 PM
Aside from some obvious virtue signaling, which certainly isn't uncommon, this rather floored me. Who tells people not to buy their product?!  Is this more common than I realize?

Maybe the 2nd Edition will be pretending to be a 1000 year old Racist.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 19, 2021, 06:59:39 PM
Aside from some obvious virtue signaling, which certainly isn't uncommon, this rather floored me. Who tells people not to buy their product?!  Is this more common than I realize?

Maybe the 2nd Edition will be pretending to be a 1000 year old Racist.

Hey what if you licensed the 2000 Year-Old Man from Mel Brooks and made a spinoff.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 19, 2021, 07:11:31 PM
Aside from some obvious virtue signaling, which certainly isn't uncommon, this rather floored me. Who tells people not to buy their product?!  Is this more common than I realize?

Maybe the 2nd Edition will be pretending to be a 1000 year old Racist.

He could collaborate with Evil Hat and make it about living as HP Lovecraft.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trinculoisdead on April 20, 2021, 12:21:45 AM
rofl

I bought this game a while back. I still haven't played it, but I read Anne Rice in my formative years and this game's theme drew me to it. Vampires and history and a discover-as-you-play series of prompts reminiscent of a solo adventure-book: what's not to like? Journaling is an option in the game for the would-be authors, but it can be played over a shorter period of time with brief entries.

The author is clearly deluded about life, but the game is good.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 20, 2021, 12:56:23 AM
Hey I like me some vampires and I am not as politically correct as people who'd be offended by no-nazi tags, no argument there, I just gotta portion my time out and time spent shitposting in private on a journal is time not spent shitposting elsewhere yknow
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: jhkim on April 20, 2021, 01:11:20 AM
Correct. Nobody who wasn't already deep in the storygame / woke twitter community would buy this game anyway. The people he despises will not even see his creation unless pointed to it, since they move in different circles.

It's disheartening to see this false dichotomy. 

I feel the need to reiterate that *I was going to purchase this product until I accidentally saw their rant*.  It's possible, and probably more common than people realize, that someone can be interested in both osr or crunchy games and games that involve something like thought experiments or writing.  I don't feel the need to put myself in one camp or the other, nor should anyone else.
I don't see why it's so hard for people to allow others to enjoy whatever type of gaming they want.  Now, when people try to have a product taken down or censored, or even worse, to create legislation that will do it for them, then that's something to fight against if you can.

p.s. as far as the rivalry between the storytelling and dm-is-god camps, that's something that has been ongoing since the inception of d&d.  It's an interesting topic and I recommend reading The Elusive Shift by Jon Peterson.

I agree with this. I'm not into OSR, but I enjoy plenty of traditional gaming along with various story games. Personally, I don't let an author's political rants dictate whether I play their game or not.

Authors should be free to write whatever they want, and players can do whatever they want with their games once they buy them.

If someone writes a political rant that conflicts with mine, that's their right. I can still buy their book, and play it however the hell I want.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 20, 2021, 01:42:03 AM
Let me start off by saying that I did some searching but couldn't find any references to this.

I had recently seen the game Thousand Year Old Vampire popping up in a few of the solo rpg channels I follow on youtube.  I went and checked it out on drivethrurpg, but saw that a better print option may be available elsewhere.  So I went and found the game's homepage and was immediately presented with this at the top:

Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

Aside from some obvious virtue signaling, which certainly isn't uncommon, this rather floored me. Who tells people not to buy their product?!  Is this more common than I realize?

More common than you'd think, it has years happening in comic books, and in RPGs, movies, tv shows and other entertainment. Also ignore This Guy he's a troll and a lunatic that agrees with that kinda feeling.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 20, 2021, 09:04:57 AM
Geeky is obviously correct that you should ignore me even when I'm saying correct things and deffo you should restrict your creative instincts and water your shit down for the markets. Only produce and consume diluted shit, never from concentrate.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trinculoisdead on April 20, 2021, 10:15:38 AM
Here's an example of a condensed, less journal-writing, way of playing the game. It's illustrated as well: https://twitter.com/dog_blink/status/1377786943962902529.

The author is still deluded about "the right", but the example of play was fun I thought.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Shasarak on April 20, 2021, 06:17:32 PM
Geeky is obviously correct that you should ignore me even when I'm saying correct things and deffo you should restrict your creative instincts and water your shit down for the markets. Only produce and consume diluted shit, never from concentrate.

Luckily I have not had to ignore you for saying correct things yet but I am sure it will happen any day now.

Any day.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 20, 2021, 06:20:41 PM
Geeky is obviously correct that you should ignore me even when I'm saying correct things and deffo you should restrict your creative instincts and water your shit down for the markets. Only produce and consume diluted shit, never from concentrate.

Luckily I have not had to ignore you for saying correct things yet but I am sure it will happen any day now.

Any day.

This many days since I've had to ignore This Guy for saying Correct Things: 0
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Shasarak on April 21, 2021, 05:29:19 AM
Geeky is obviously correct that you should ignore me even when I'm saying correct things and deffo you should restrict your creative instincts and water your shit down for the markets. Only produce and consume diluted shit, never from concentrate.

Luckily I have not had to ignore you for saying correct things yet but I am sure it will happen any day now.

Any day.

This many days since I've had to ignore This Guy for saying Correct Things: 0

I was hoping this was the day it would finally tick over to 1 but alas.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 21, 2021, 10:42:03 AM

I agree with this. I'm not into OSR, but I enjoy plenty of traditional gaming along with various story games. Personally, I don't let an author's political rants dictate whether I play their game or not.

Authors should be free to write whatever they want, and players can do whatever they want with their games once they buy them.

If someone writes a political rant that conflicts with mine, that's their right. I can still buy their book, and play it however the hell I want.

Yes, I believe they should be able to say what they want, but I don't have to pay them to say it. People often complain about shit companies like Disney, but then continue to give them money, or even just torrent their movies/shows, but I think even torrenting is a form of approval that they see and use to tell themselves they're doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 09:48:51 AM


More common than you'd think, it has years happening in comic books, and in RPGs, movies, tv shows and other entertainment. .....

The RPG community was actually the first area where I noticed that it had gone from “just liberal” to insane places. Around 2010 I believe. Anyone remember Heartbreak & Heroines?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 11:15:55 AM


More common than you'd think, it has years happening in comic books, and in RPGs, movies, tv shows and other entertainment. .....

The RPG community was actually the first area where I noticed that it had gone from “just liberal” to insane places. Around 2010 I believe. Anyone remember Heartbreak & Heroines?

No, I don't. It makes sense tho, after all the femynid invasion of RPGs was underway back when the satanic panic was in full swing.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 11:23:20 AM
....... after all the femynid invasion of RPGs was underway back when the satanic panic was in full swing.

Oh? Any stories to tell?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 11:40:48 AM
....... after all the femynid invasion of RPGs was underway back when the satanic panic was in full swing.

Oh? Any stories to tell?

Not really, unless you consider a story my telling you there were already feminist articles in the TSR magazine (Dragon?) back then, don't remember exactly which issue tho, something about chainmail bikinis, and one more my brain is farting and won't let me remember what it was about.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 12:14:48 PM
Geeky is obviously correct that you should ignore me even when I'm saying correct things and deffo you should restrict your creative instincts and water your shit down for the markets. Only produce and consume diluted shit, never from concentrate.

Luckily I have not had to ignore you for saying correct things yet but I am sure it will happen any day now.

Any day.

This many days since I've had to ignore This Guy for saying Correct Things: 0

I was hoping this was the day it would finally tick over to 1 but alas.

Buck up buddy it'll happen one of these days.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 01:15:15 PM

Not really, unless you consider a story my telling you there were already feminist articles in the TSR magazine (Dragon?) back then, don't remember exactly which issue tho, something about chainmail bikinis, and one more my brain is farting and won't let me remember what it was about.

Can you believe this sort of lameness actually caught on? To the point where in many groups you have to say that OF COURSE you're a feminist and OF COURSE chainmail bikinis is an affront to women's rights........or else.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 01:26:47 PM

Not really, unless you consider a story my telling you there were already feminist articles in the TSR magazine (Dragon?) back then, don't remember exactly which issue tho, something about chainmail bikinis, and one more my brain is farting and won't let me remember what it was about.

Can you believe this sort of lameness actually caught on? To the point where in many groups you have to say that OF COURSE you're a feminist and OF COURSE chainmail bikinis is an affront to women's rights........or else.

Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity.

Even the most oppressive things, like the muslim rule that women can't go outside without a male escort comes from the necesity to protect the females.

"Think of the women!"  Has been proven to have more weight than "Think of the children!". How else do you explain that in Hollyweird the scandal was women willingly exchanging their body for fame, money, power and not the children beign raped left and right by the nest of degenerates there?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 03:42:23 PM

Not really, unless you consider a story my telling you there were already feminist articles in the TSR magazine (Dragon?) back then, don't remember exactly which issue tho, something about chainmail bikinis, and one more my brain is farting and won't let me remember what it was about.

Can you believe this sort of lameness actually caught on? To the point where in many groups you have to say that OF COURSE you're a feminist and OF COURSE chainmail bikinis is an affront to women's rights........or else.

Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity.

Even the most oppressive things, like the muslim rule that women can't go outside without a male escort comes from the necesity to protect the females.

"Think of the women!"  Has been proven to have more weight than "Think of the children!". How else do you explain that in Hollyweird the scandal was women willingly exchanging their body for fame, money, power and not the children beign raped left and right by the nest of degenerates there?

fuck them kids, you can always make more, it's their one good quality.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 04:47:41 PM

Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity.

Even the most oppressive things, like the muslim rule that women can't go outside without a male escort comes from the necesity to protect the females.

"Think of the women!"  Has been proven to have more weight than "Think of the children!". How else do you explain that in Hollyweird the scandal was women willingly exchanging their body for fame, money, power and not the children beign raped left and right by the nest of degenerates there?

That's an overstatement, it's just one key drive that we have among many others. In some areas women are the first to go when family honor is at stake, for instance. Sometimes girls simply aren't worth it for poorer families, so they get rid of them.

I do agree that there IS an element of "save the women" in humans though, and this was emphasized by Medieval Chivalry. Feminists are usually the last to acknowledge it, even if they use it whenever it suits them.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 04:59:00 PM

Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity.

Even the most oppressive things, like the muslim rule that women can't go outside without a male escort comes from the necesity to protect the females.

"Think of the women!"  Has been proven to have more weight than "Think of the children!". How else do you explain that in Hollyweird the scandal was women willingly exchanging their body for fame, money, power and not the children beign raped left and right by the nest of degenerates there?

That's an overstatement, it's just one key drive that we have among many others. In some areas women are the first to go when family honor is at stake, for instance. Sometimes girls simply aren't worth it for poorer families, so they get rid of them.

I do agree that there IS an element of "save the women" in humans though, and this was emphasized by Medieval Chivalry. Feminists are usually the last to acknowledge it, even if they use it whenever it suits them.

Lets see, "family honor" who benefits the most from monogamy? The woman that needs a protector and provider for the children and herself during pregnancy and the child's infancy. The man would be better of in poligamy passing as many of his genes as possible.

BUT, once established monogamy has one advantage for some males, they now can get a woman where before only the alpha could.

BUT, since they are having to provide for more than one mouth they need to know they are feeding their offspring and not some other male's. You see this a lot in other animals too.

From this is that "family honor" evolved. To protect the honor of the woman so she could get the best man to marry her.

True, in some cultures poor families prefer boys over girls, not because the girl is less important, but because the boy is expected to take care of his elderly parents, cuz his labor isn't his.

Now, I never said gynocentrism was the ONLY drive, just a really big one in almost all aspects of life. Millions of years of evolution make it so.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 05:21:52 PM


Lets see, "family honor" who benefits the most from monogamy? The woman that needs a protector and provider for the children and herself during pregnancy and the child's infancy. The man would be better of in poligamy passing as many of his genes as possible.

BUT, once established monogamy has one advantage for some males, they now can get a woman where before only the alpha could.

BUT, since they are having to provide for more than one mouth they need to know they are feeding their offspring and not some other male's. You see this a lot in other animals too.

From this is that "family honor" evolved. To protect the honor of the woman so she could get the best man to marry her.

True, in some cultures poor families prefer boys over girls, not because the girl is less important, but because the boy is expected to take care of his elderly parents, cuz his labor isn't his.

Now, I never said gynocentrism was the ONLY drive, just a really big one in almost all aspects of life. Millions of years of evolution make it so.

Well that was very poorly phrased then, just re-read what you said in the previous post.

And no, family honor isn’t necessarily connected to monogamy, and it doesn’t even always have to do with women.  It usually has everything to do with status. Family honor can also lead to family vendettas for instance.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 05:38:27 PM


Lets see, "family honor" who benefits the most from monogamy? The woman that needs a protector and provider for the children and herself during pregnancy and the child's infancy. The man would be better of in poligamy passing as many of his genes as possible.

BUT, once established monogamy has one advantage for some males, they now can get a woman where before only the alpha could.

BUT, since they are having to provide for more than one mouth they need to know they are feeding their offspring and not some other male's. You see this a lot in other animals too.

From this is that "family honor" evolved. To protect the honor of the woman so she could get the best man to marry her.

True, in some cultures poor families prefer boys over girls, not because the girl is less important, but because the boy is expected to take care of his elderly parents, cuz his labor isn't his.

Now, I never said gynocentrism was the ONLY drive, just a really big one in almost all aspects of life. Millions of years of evolution make it so.

Well that was very poorly phrased then, just re-read what you said in the previous post.

And no, family honor isn’t necessarily connected to monogamy, and it doesn’t even always have to do with women.  It usually has everything to do with status. Family honor can also lead to family vendettas for instance.

Right, on the instances where it doesn't have to do with women it has also zero to do with monogamy, you're correct. But since we were talking about gynocentrism I disregarded the rest since it's not relevant to the conversation.

I wonder tho, can't something arise from one source and then be adapted to other different areas of human interaction?

From organized religion we then derived the divine right of kings for instance, can it be possible that honor arose from one thing and then was adapted to other areas?

Sex/Reproduction is one of the mayor driving forces of evolution, and our behaviour evolves just like the behaviour of other animals. Unless of course you believe in the tabula rassa religious dogma of the left.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 05:48:20 PM

Right, on the instances where it doesn't have to do with women it has also zero to do with monogamy, you're correct. But since we were talking about gynocentrism I disregarded the rest since it's not relevant to the conversation.

I wonder tho, can't something arise from one source and then be adapted to other different areas of human interaction?

From organized religion we then derived the divine right of kings for instance, can it be possible that honor arose from one thing and then was adapted to other areas?

Sex/Reproduction is one of the mayor driving forces of evolution, and our behaviour evolves just like the behaviour of other animals. Unless of course you believe in the tabula rassa religious dogma of the left.

Well this went from this;

 “ Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity..”

.... to what you’re saying now. Again, I’ll just chalk it up to being extremely poorly phrased. But just talking about reproduction in general does not necessitate any of this. Grizzly bears don’t care that much about protecting the females.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 05:57:42 PM

Right, on the instances where it doesn't have to do with women it has also zero to do with monogamy, you're correct. But since we were talking about gynocentrism I disregarded the rest since it's not relevant to the conversation.

I wonder tho, can't something arise from one source and then be adapted to other different areas of human interaction?

From organized religion we then derived the divine right of kings for instance, can it be possible that honor arose from one thing and then was adapted to other areas?

Sex/Reproduction is one of the mayor driving forces of evolution, and our behaviour evolves just like the behaviour of other animals. Unless of course you believe in the tabula rassa religious dogma of the left.

Well this went from this;

 “ Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity..”

.... to what you’re saying now. Again, I’ll just chalk it up to being extremely poorly phrased. But just talking about reproduction in general does not necessitate any of this. Grizzly bears don’t care that much about protecting the females.

We are a gynocentric species, we evolved for thaqt, and yes our cultures evolved from that too. Nowhere do I say our cultures evolved ONLY for that tho.

Yeah, Bears don't care about protecting the females, they also aren't a social species and are much far away than our nearest cousins Chimps and Bonobos. You do see in them a possesive protection of the females, as in they chase away strange males. You also see in them protection of the offspring.

But they and we have a major difference, we are monogamous, they aren't, and yet the males do protect the females and the offspring.

Why would you go for bears when you have a much closer animal that shares many of our genes and other characteristics?

I wonder.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Shasarak on April 23, 2021, 06:29:29 PM
fuck them kids, you can always make more, it's their one good quality.

Yeah you are not "Anti Evolution" are you?  Fuck those science deniers.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 06:33:44 PM

Right, on the instances where it doesn't have to do with women it has also zero to do with monogamy, you're correct. But since we were talking about gynocentrism I disregarded the rest since it's not relevant to the conversation.

I wonder tho, can't something arise from one source and then be adapted to other different areas of human interaction?

From organized religion we then derived the divine right of kings for instance, can it be possible that honor arose from one thing and then was adapted to other areas?

Sex/Reproduction is one of the mayor driving forces of evolution, and our behaviour evolves just like the behaviour of other animals. Unless of course you believe in the tabula rassa religious dogma of the left.

Well this went from this;

 “ Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity..”

.... to what you’re saying now. Again, I’ll just chalk it up to being extremely poorly phrased. But just talking about reproduction in general does not necessitate any of this. Grizzly bears don’t care that much about protecting the females.

We are a gynocentric species, we evolved for thaqt, and yes our cultures evolved from that too. Nowhere do I say our cultures evolved ONLY for that tho.

Yeah, Bears don't care about protecting the females, they also aren't a social species and are much far away than our nearest cousins Chimps and Bonobos. You do see in them a possesive protection of the females, as in they chase away strange males. You also see in them protection of the offspring.

But they and we have a major difference, we are monogamous, they aren't, and yet the males do protect the females and the offspring.

Why would you go for bears when you have a much closer animal that shares many of our genes and other characteristics?

I wonder.

Because that’s how generally you phrased it.

And no chimps are not very concerned with protecting the females. Male dominance isn’t the same.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 23, 2021, 08:58:46 PM
fuck them kids, you can always make more, it's their one good quality.

Yeah you are not "Anti Evolution" are you?  Fuck those science deniers.

Evolution is for people who can't grow their own wings so hope by concentrating real hard they can live vicariously through their kids, it's the high school football dad of science.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 23, 2021, 09:15:10 PM

Right, on the instances where it doesn't have to do with women it has also zero to do with monogamy, you're correct. But since we were talking about gynocentrism I disregarded the rest since it's not relevant to the conversation.

I wonder tho, can't something arise from one source and then be adapted to other different areas of human interaction?

From organized religion we then derived the divine right of kings for instance, can it be possible that honor arose from one thing and then was adapted to other areas?

Sex/Reproduction is one of the mayor driving forces of evolution, and our behaviour evolves just like the behaviour of other animals. Unless of course you believe in the tabula rassa religious dogma of the left.

Well this went from this;

 “ Yeah, I totally can, we're a gynocentric species, we evolved to protect the women, everything in our species, including our cultures evolved out of that necesity..”

.... to what you’re saying now. Again, I’ll just chalk it up to being extremely poorly phrased. But just talking about reproduction in general does not necessitate any of this. Grizzly bears don’t care that much about protecting the females.

We are a gynocentric species, we evolved for thaqt, and yes our cultures evolved from that too. Nowhere do I say our cultures evolved ONLY for that tho.

Yeah, Bears don't care about protecting the females, they also aren't a social species and are much far away than our nearest cousins Chimps and Bonobos. You do see in them a possesive protection of the females, as in they chase away strange males. You also see in them protection of the offspring.

But they and we have a major difference, we are monogamous, they aren't, and yet the males do protect the females and the offspring.

Why would you go for bears when you have a much closer animal that shares many of our genes and other characteristics?

I wonder.

Because that’s how generally you phrased it.

And no chimps are not very concerned with protecting the females. Male dominance isn’t the same.

Yeah, any chimp from other tribe can just walk in and grab a female or attack her and the males wouldn't rise an eyebrow.

Stop drinking that koolaid.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 23, 2021, 10:25:37 PM

Yeah, any chimp from other tribe can just walk in and grab a female or attack her and the males wouldn't rise an eyebrow.

Stop drinking that koolaid.

That’s the protection you’re talking about? Many animals behave like that. Lions even.
So you do talk in very general terms then? Why did you protest my mentioning bears?? (Not social but territorial with females with territory)
So any animal where males guard a group of females from mating with other males is “gynocentric” in your book?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Shasarak on April 24, 2021, 12:45:12 AM
fuck them kids, you can always make more, it's their one good quality.

Yeah you are not "Anti Evolution" are you?  Fuck those science deniers.

Evolution is for people who can't grow their own wings so hope by concentrating real hard they can live vicariously through their kids, it's the high school football dad of science.

Evolution is for people who cant grow their own wings.

See, still zero days that I have ignored something that you were correct about.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 24, 2021, 12:59:14 AM

Yeah, any chimp from other tribe can just walk in and grab a female or attack her and the males wouldn't rise an eyebrow.

Stop drinking that koolaid.

That’s the protection you’re talking about? Many animals behave like that. Lions even.
So you do talk in very general terms then? Why did you protest my mentioning bears?? (Not social but territorial with females with territory)
So any animal where males guard a group of females from mating with other males is “gynocentric” in your book?

Bears are territorial, the female will chase the males away from her cubs.

Chimps are territorial, they will chase away other tribes of chimps from either sex. And will protect the females and children.

Bonobos are territorial and do cooperate in raising the children, have sex not only for procreation.

Like I said, stop drinking that koolaid, scientific facts carry no moral value.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 24, 2021, 02:59:59 AM
fuck them kids, you can always make more, it's their one good quality.

Yeah you are not "Anti Evolution" are you?  Fuck those science deniers.

Evolution is for people who can't grow their own wings so hope by concentrating real hard they can live vicariously through their kids, it's the high school football dad of science.

Evolution is for people who cant grow their own wings.

See, still zero days that I have ignored something that you were correct about.

We really need to talk about how this relationship is going to work out if you keep using my own words that I said against me, this is rank hypocrisy
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 24, 2021, 06:48:29 AM
Bears are territorial, the female will chase the males away from her cubs.

Chimps are territorial, they will chase away other tribes of chimps from either sex. And will protect the females and children.

Bonobos are territorial and do cooperate in raising the children, have sex not only for procreation.

Like I said, stop drinking that koolaid, scientific facts carry no moral value.

Yes, and your conclusion from all this is?
The problem is your definition of “gynocentric” which makes no sense. Apparently if women are in charge or if men are in charge or if people have monogamy or if the have polygyny, humans are all “gynocentric”. As a species apparently. BTW chimpanzee communities aren’t called tribes.

Stop your koolaid bullshit, I obviously know more about the science than you do. I teach this stuff at university.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: GeekyBugle on April 24, 2021, 09:52:20 PM
Bears are territorial, the female will chase the males away from her cubs.

Chimps are territorial, they will chase away other tribes of chimps from either sex. And will protect the females and children.

Bonobos are territorial and do cooperate in raising the children, have sex not only for procreation.

Like I said, stop drinking that koolaid, scientific facts carry no moral value.

Yes, and your conclusion from all this is?
The problem is your definition of “gynocentric” which makes no sense. Apparently if women are in charge or if men are in charge or if people have monogamy or if the have polygyny, humans are all “gynocentric”. As a species apparently. BTW chimpanzee communities aren’t called tribes.

Stop your koolaid bullshit, I obviously know more about the science than you do. I teach this stuff at university.
Which is why you try to use bears to demonstrate humans aren't X, which is why if in an informal conversation I don't use the correct scientific name for chimp troop it proves I'm wrong on everything.

And that's also why if a concept isn't universal (in biology and sociology no less) then it doesn't exist...

Sure champ.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 24, 2021, 11:52:23 PM
What the fuck are they even talking about here
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: jhkim on April 25, 2021, 03:38:59 AM
Bears are territorial, the female will chase the males away from her cubs.

Chimps are territorial, they will chase away other tribes of chimps from either sex. And will protect the females and children.

Bonobos are territorial and do cooperate in raising the children, have sex not only for procreation.

Like I said, stop drinking that koolaid, scientific facts carry no moral value.

Yes, and your conclusion from all this is?
The problem is your definition of “gynocentric” which makes no sense. Apparently if women are in charge or if men are in charge or if people have monogamy or if the have polygyny, humans are all “gynocentric”. As a species apparently. BTW chimpanzee communities aren’t called tribes.

Stop your koolaid bullshit, I obviously know more about the science than you do. I teach this stuff at university.

Yeah. I'm curious about what GeekyBugle would call a non-gynocentric species. How would one distinguish a non-gynocentric species from a gynocentric one?

Also, I don't get how these chimpanzee analogies give any insight into feminism in the 1980s RPG scene. It seems to me there are equal arguments that a gynocentric species would (a) like chainmail bikini pictures, or (b) dislike chainmail bikini pictures.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: psiconauta_retro on April 25, 2021, 05:00:13 AM
I agree that it sounds like a really bad business decision that the author wants to be selective about who can "buy" his product. However, we can imagine he is not interested in money, as if you go to the itch.io page (https://timhutchings.itch.io/tyov) you can get a copy for free, so there is no need to pay for it:

"Community Copy

These are copies for folks who cannot or choose not to purchase a PDF.  Please take one, no questions asked. 
4433 remaining"

Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 25, 2021, 10:00:24 AM

Yeah. I'm curious about what GeekyBugle would call a non-gynocentric species. How would one distinguish a non-gynocentric species from a gynocentric one?

Also, I don't get how these chimpanzee analogies give any insight into feminism in the 1980s RPG scene. It seems to me there are equal arguments that a gynocentric species would (a) like chainmail bikini pictures, or (b) dislike chainmail bikini pictures.

Yep, and another sure sign of a gynocentric group is that in matters of honor they will either a) protect the females, or b) kill the females.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 25, 2021, 09:53:35 PM
I agree that it sounds like a really bad business decision that the author wants to be selective about who can "buy" his product. However, we can imagine he is not interested in money, as if you go to the itch.io page (https://timhutchings.itch.io/tyov) you can get a copy for free, so there is no need to pay for it:

"Community Copy

These are copies for folks who cannot or choose not to purchase a PDF.  Please take one, no questions asked. 
4433 remaining"

hahahaha no shit? good find dude, wonder what the starting number was. Author's probably pulling in the SUSD money however much that's worth i guess.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Warder on April 26, 2021, 05:52:42 AM
I think this is a good case for dissasociating an author from his work. I hear good things bout the rpg, havent read it, will not read it, not my thing currently. As far as beeing unpleseant goes, this guy seems just a cynical/honest cretin who dosent understand why product is supposed to be sold and generate money. This can be overlooked, there are more severe cases out there. The people who read his statement and realise its offensive meaning will not buy his product. The ones who buy it because they think he is right and its ''for them'' are welcome to it. Voting with ones wallet applies here quite well imho.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: This Guy on April 26, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
Fair stance man. You want another example, Kreider's put out a sample of their graphic design for their next project and it has a big NO TERFS ALLOWED page, basically the same deal, with the same response your describing Warder.

But like in a world without that warning how many people here are gonna buy a bucolic game about queer found family anyway you know
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: critical_fumble on April 26, 2021, 12:04:47 PM
Fair stance man. You want another example, Kreider's put out a sample of their graphic design for their next project and it has a big NO TERFS ALLOWED page, basically the same deal, with the same response your describing Warder.

But like in a world without that warning how many people here are gonna buy a bucolic game about queer found family anyway you know

Right, that particular game sounds a bit niche and the theme of it would probably only draw people who would already be on the same political page as the author(s). In fact, I doubt anyone would even *make* such a game without having a firm sociopolitical agenda behind its creation.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: DocJones on April 27, 2021, 08:08:20 PM
Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

I'm almost tempted to buy it and post a youtube video of a bunch of us playing it while wearing MAGA hats and the most "left offending" T-shirts I can find.
Then send the author a link to it.   

Or not.
Someone is welcome to steal this idea. ;-P


Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Snowman0147 on April 27, 2021, 10:53:21 PM
Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

I'm almost tempted to buy it and post a youtube video of a bunch of us playing it while wearing MAGA hats and the most "left offending" T-shirts I can find.
Then send the author a link to it.   

Or not.
Someone is welcome to steal this idea. ;-P

I would say do it, but then you have to spend money on buying his book.  Do you want to do that, or spend money on people who would be appreciated to have your money?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Ghostmaker on April 28, 2021, 08:16:40 AM
Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

I'm almost tempted to buy it and post a youtube video of a bunch of us playing it while wearing MAGA hats and the most "left offending" T-shirts I can find.
Then send the author a link to it.   

Or not.
Someone is welcome to steal this idea. ;-P

I would say do it, but then you have to spend money on buying his book.  Do you want to do that, or spend money on people who would be appreciated to have your money?
Well, he COULD sail the seven seas for it. Not that I'd condone that, oh no.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Trond on April 28, 2021, 10:40:21 AM
Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

I'm almost tempted to buy it and post a youtube video of a bunch of us playing it while wearing MAGA hats and the most "left offending" T-shirts I can find.
Then send the author a link to it.   

Or not.
Someone is welcome to steal this idea. ;-P

I would say do it, but then you have to spend money on buying his book.  Do you want to do that, or spend money on people who would be appreciated to have your money?
Well, he COULD sail the seven seas for it. Not that I'd condone that, oh no.

As others mentioned, it’s available for free. Just say that you bought it.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 12, 2021, 05:51:11 PM
Lots of people this isn't even the most high profile. Some assholes are still so clenched over Fred Hicks telling chuds not to buy Fate of Cthulhu engineers are studying them for adhesive properties.

I had to go look up "chud". 

I guess it's just that this example seemed extreme given the theme of the game itself.

Nah it's a safe tactic, telling people who won't buy your game anyway not to buy your game. They get butthurt and continue to not by the game and people who don't like em are impressed by your brave stance and buy the game. Real easy choir preaching for cash.

Well, I don't meet the author's checklist of evil, but as soon as I saw his stance he lost my sale.

Better write him to tell him and hope he didn't get two more from having the checklist I guess.

Better yet, write him and tell him that you're far right and you bought his game anyway, played it, and enjoyed it and that you're now GM'ing a regular game with your right-wing friends.

EDIT - Ninja'd
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Snowman0147 on May 12, 2021, 11:43:40 PM
You forgot Doc Sammy you need to start a youtube campaign and feature your ancient vampires as the facists.  Hmm...  Arch took the nazis so I suggest actual free market capitalists that are pro small government?
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 13, 2021, 10:15:52 AM
You forgot Doc Sammy you need to start a youtube campaign and feature your ancient vampires as the facists.  Hmm...  Arch took the nazis so I suggest actual free market capitalists that are pro small government?

YES!

We should definitely do this.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: zircher on May 13, 2021, 05:13:04 PM
Playing this game as 1,000 year old conservative is on my to-do list this summer.  :-)
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on May 25, 2021, 02:50:42 PM
I think I'll just play Feed (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/124387/Feed)instead. The author lets me buy it for free anyway.

Or any number of other games in a vaguely similar vein. Actual Fucking Monsters (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/276038/Actual-Fucking-Monsters), Blood Dark Thirst (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/223788/Blood-Dark-Thirst), Night's Black Agents (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/106783/Nights-Black-Agents), The Blood Hack (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/202601/The-Blood-Hack), Urban Shadows (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/333500/Urban-Shadows-2nd-Ed-Quickstart), w/e.

It's not like there's a dearth of vampire-themed games these days.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: zircher on May 25, 2021, 03:12:42 PM
True true.  And if you are familiar with oracles/game master emulators like CRGE or Mythic GME, any game can be a solo game.  So, that is not even a limiting factor in your choices either.  Blood and a few others are also on my growing to-play list.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: sevenlabors on May 27, 2021, 02:29:10 AM
Quote
If you are a supporter of the near or far right I am going to ask that you not buy my games. I don't want your money, but more importantly I don't want you to feel comfortable enjoying things produced by the people and systems you want to destroy. I don't want bad people playing my games–and that includes folks who are willing to look the other way while braver bigots perform their hateful work.

Yes this means members of cartoonishly evil hate groups, but it also specifically includes Trump supporters and those Republicans who voted for Trump. You are lobbying for the death of my friends and relations, you are pushing for dangerous authoritarians to destroy the systems that let books like mine come to be. And this goes for equivalent groups outside the US–you know who you are.

People who make art and beauty and fun almost universally revile you and it's time you started to feel that. You aren't welcome here, you don't get to play with my things. Shoo.

I had been strongly considering picking up Thousand Year Old Vampire for a chill game while my GF plays her Switch, but seeing this?

I'm a pretty centrist independent libertarian.
I hold fairly liberal social views.
I'm certainly not a fan of Trump nor his base...

...But I don't care to support such people who think such polemical vitriol is helping anything.

"With words like these we don’t cure patients, we make them incurable." -Peter Canisius, a sixteenth-century Jesuit, on polemical attacks against the Protestants

True true.  And if you are familiar with oracles/game master emulators like CRGE or Mythic GME, any game can be a solo game.  So, that is not even a limiting factor in your choices either.  Blood and a few others are also on my growing to-play list.

I'll have to check that out.

New to solo gameplay, but am reminded of the tables in Ironsworn, as well.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: zircher on May 27, 2021, 12:09:11 PM
Indeed, There is a You Tube series out there where a fellow is playing the original Ravenloft using the Ironsworn system.  So, it has functionality beyond its own setting.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: zircher on July 24, 2022, 10:22:24 AM
Friendly reminder that Tim is soliciting votes for the Ennies, so don't vote for any of his works if you can.

"I have a game in the 2021 Level 1 Anthology, and the anthology was nominated for an Ennie award!  The Ennies are a pretty big deal and the last stage is a popularity-based voting contest, so...  If you want to help me out by voting go to https://vote.ennie-awards.com/vote/2022/ballot.php?category_id=10 and Choose the Level 1 Anthology.  VOTE QUICK BECAUSE SUNDAY IS YOUR LAST DAY TO DO SO."

Damn funny thing, after Tim got a little recognition, that do not buy request disappeared from his page.  Just another sell-out.  :-)
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2022, 06:22:41 AM
"Don't buy our product!" is a common exhortation against "The Evil Other Side". I saw it in a lot of places but especially in the nu-wave of American comic book writers. It is always followed, after a couple of weeks, by weepy interviews about how "the market shrunk so much that they cannot make a living anymore by creating comic books".

Sure, the publishing house I work for has her own internal "code" regarding what you can and can't put in their comic books. The ones I worked for in France had theirs. However, should I say "if you don't agree with us don't buy" I would be chased away by a pack of dogs. Beside, how can you hope to "bring sanity to The Evil Other Side" if you refuse to offer a different point of view? Let them decide.

Regarding Evil Hat and "Fate of Cthulhu", we already talked extensively about that fiasco. "Lovecraft was a racist and an anti-Semite!" - which is already bizarre as it implies that anti-semitism somehow is not racism. Then they refused to give any proof and invited the buyers to do their own research. I did and it turned out that Jews have no problems at all with Lovecraft (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/my-favorite-anti-semite-h-p-lovecraft). Never tell people to do any kind of research if you are woke...
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Shasarak on July 25, 2022, 06:45:09 AM
The latest Ennies looks like the worst yet.

Of course I still voted for Thirsty Sword Lesbians because whom among us does not like Lesbians who are Thirsty for a good Swording!
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: HappyDaze on July 25, 2022, 09:33:27 AM
The latest Ennies looks like the worst yet.

Of course I still voted for Thirsty Sword Lesbians because whom among us does not like Lesbians who are Thirsty for a good Swording!
Let me make sure I cleared my web history..
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on July 25, 2022, 12:21:03 PM
Regarding Evil Hat and "Fate of Cthulhu", we already talked extensively about that fiasco. "Lovecraft was a racist and an anti-Semite!" - which is already bizarre as it implies that anti-semitism somehow is not racism. Then they refused to give any proof and invited the buyers to do their own research. I did and it turned out that Jews have no problems at all with Lovecraft (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/my-favorite-anti-semite-h-p-lovecraft). Never tell people to do any kind of research if you are woke...
I love the glee with which the article points out that HPL was a hypocrite: "The 20th-century master of horror admired Hitler but married a Jew and hated ‘alien’ cultures but created some of the most memorable ones in literature"
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: Reckall on July 25, 2022, 02:40:16 PM
Regarding Evil Hat and "Fate of Cthulhu", we already talked extensively about that fiasco. "Lovecraft was a racist and an anti-Semite!" - which is already bizarre as it implies that anti-semitism somehow is not racism. Then they refused to give any proof and invited the buyers to do their own research. I did and it turned out that Jews have no problems at all with Lovecraft (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/my-favorite-anti-semite-h-p-lovecraft). Never tell people to do any kind of research if you are woke...
I love the glee with which the article points out that HPL was a hypocrite: "The 20th-century master of horror admired Hitler but married a Jew and hated ‘alien’ cultures but created some of the most memorable ones in literature"

I don't think that you read it until the end.
Title: Re: Thousand Year Old Wokepire
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on July 25, 2022, 05:22:46 PM
Regarding Evil Hat and "Fate of Cthulhu", we already talked extensively about that fiasco. "Lovecraft was a racist and an anti-Semite!" - which is already bizarre as it implies that anti-semitism somehow is not racism. Then they refused to give any proof and invited the buyers to do their own research. I did and it turned out that Jews have no problems at all with Lovecraft (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/my-favorite-anti-semite-h-p-lovecraft). Never tell people to do any kind of research if you are woke...
I love the glee with which the article points out that HPL was a hypocrite: "The 20th-century master of horror admired Hitler but married a Jew and hated ‘alien’ cultures but created some of the most memorable ones in literature"

I don't think that you read it until the end.
I did. Lovecraft was an antisemite but his closest friends were Jewish. Dude was crazy.