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Author Topic: These FIVE men control your freedom  (Read 3779 times)

HappyDaze

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2021, 12:43:12 PM »
How should we change the regulatory system so that this can't happen?
First ask, "Should we change the regulatory system so that this can't happen?" Then, maybe, add in the "How?"

HappyDaze

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2021, 12:45:06 PM »
Personally I think social media is the modern public square and should be held to the same first amendment standards that government agencies are.
The public square is funded through taxes. Do you want tax money going to fund social media? If not, then it should remain under the control of those that fund it.

EOTB

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2021, 01:07:06 PM »
You can’t, however, pick and choose among the many tenants running dog fights on your property, and boot only one of them.  If you want to rely on dog fighting as your justification
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jhkim

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2021, 01:26:24 PM »
You can’t, however, pick and choose among the many tenants running dog fights on your property, and boot only one of them.  If you want to rely on dog fighting as your justification

With rental tenants, this depends on the nature of the rental contract. Legally, if multiple renters violate the terms of the contract, the landlord is *allowed* to evict them - but they usually aren't *required* to evict them.

It's the landlord's property, so they generally have a lot of discretion to do with it what they like. Maybe their drinking buddy is renting one of the properties, and they let their bud keep a cat even though the standard contract says "no pets". Or maybe they let the bud go for three months without paying, but they require other tenants to always pay on time or be evicted.

Some states and/or towns have specific renters-rights laws to put more restrictions on what landlords can do with their property, but of course those won't apply to Amazon and its servers.

Arkansan

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2021, 02:48:12 PM »
Personally I think social media is the modern public square and should be held to the same first amendment standards that government agencies are.
The public square is funded through taxes. Do you want tax money going to fund social media? If not, then it should remain under the control of those that fund it.

I don't think it has to be as binary as that. We have to consider the fact that what constitutes the public square has changed over time, we are at a point where private companies can effectively censor communications between millions of people with little to no oversight. These companies have the ability to sway elections, create or destroy popular movements, control the flow of information, etc.

Personally I'd be perfectly fine with laws requiring social media companies to adhere to first amendment guidelines of face fines, etc.

Pat

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2021, 02:52:45 PM »
Was it a government agency that kicked parler off of Amazon? Was it Amazon itself? Is amazon a regulatory agency?
It's effectively a governmentality. When the state and major corporations are so intertwined, you can't say it's the action of the free individuals making free choices in the free market.

Ratman_tf

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2021, 03:01:39 PM »
Was it a government agency that kicked parler off of Amazon? Was it Amazon itself? Is amazon a regulatory agency?
Effectively, Amazon was the landlord that evicted Parler from rental property (servers). Since they said it was because of terms of service violations, it would be like they evicted the tenant that was running dog fights on the property.

Parler wasn't running dog fights.

A better example would be if a landlord evicted someone for being a Republican or Democrat.
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SHARK

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2021, 03:08:33 PM »
Greetings!

The internet should be *free*. People are free or should be free--to say whatever they want on the internet. Too bad if someone doesn't like it. These companies engaging in censorship should be fucking banned themselves and shut down. It would be a great example if they were raided, all of their assets seized, and their owners and executives prosecuted and sent to prison, or just thrown to the alligators. That would make them fucking act right. In Poland, they have anti censorship laws aimed specifically at such internet companies as Google, Twitter, and Facebook. Pull the bullshit there and the government just fucking unplugs *you*. Uganda did this to Twitter as well. Just threw them the fuck out, *snap* just like that. Twitter's howling about it is hilarious. All of these scum need to be made to pay a steep and severe price for their hypocrisy, their tyranny, and their corruption.

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Shasarak

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2021, 03:29:17 PM »
Was it a government agency that kicked parler off of Amazon? Was it Amazon itself? Is amazon a regulatory agency?
Effectively, Amazon was the landlord that evicted Parler from rental property (servers). Since they said it was because of terms of service violations, it would be like they evicted the tenant that was running dog fights on the property.

If we use this analogy they had an agreement that if Amazon found Parler running dog fights on the property then they would have 30 days to move out.

So welcome to sue-ville Amazon.  Should have stuck to your rental agreement sucker.
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jhkim

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2021, 03:41:27 PM »
The internet should be *free*. People are free or should be free--to say whatever they want on the internet. Too bad if someone doesn't like it. These companies engaging in censorship should be fucking banned themselves and shut down. It would be a great example if they were raided, all of their assets seized, and their owners and executives prosecuted and sent to prison, or just thrown to the alligators.

SHARK - after being so ardently vocal about how horrible Marxists are, now you're crying that private resources have to be given away for free, and taken over by the government if they aren't given away free.

What you're talking about here is exactly Marxism -- nationalizing private resources in the name of the people.

The Internet is *not* free. The Internet costs *money*. Facebook and Twitter pay tons of money to buy Internet servers and develop the technology for their service. In a capitalist system, this means that they control what they paid for. They don't have to let you use their servers.

moonsweeper

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2021, 03:43:40 PM »
You can’t, however, pick and choose among the many tenants running dog fights on your property, and boot only one of them.  If you want to rely on dog fighting as your justification

With rental tenants, this depends on the nature of the rental contract. Legally, if multiple renters violate the terms of the contract, the landlord is *allowed* to evict them - but they usually aren't *required* to evict them.

It's the landlord's property, so they generally have a lot of discretion to do with it what they like. Maybe their drinking buddy is renting one of the properties, and they let their bud keep a cat even though the standard contract says "no pets". Or maybe they let the bud go for three months without paying, but they require other tenants to always pay on time or be evicted.

Some states and/or towns have specific renters-rights laws to put more restrictions on what landlords can do with their property, but of course those won't apply to Amazon and its servers.

That wasn't related to what he said.  What he said was that if you evict tenant A for violation X you are setting up a discrimination suit unless you evict the other tenants that have done the same thing.

side note:  government regulations have created more de facto monopolies, than would have existed otherwise.  Tax incentives for job creation, government subsidies, etc have all hampered competition.  In a free market, a monopoly only exists until someone comes along and undercuts the price.

Without bailouts/government aid...where would GM, GE. and a number of banks be right now...If your telling me that those companies can claim a right to discrimination of service and then use taxpayer money for their own purposes, sorry that ain't a free market...

Or go back to Operation Chokepoint...when FDIC insured banks are allowed (or encouraged by the government) to discriminate against someone while using that person's taxes as an insurance policy...please...


So, tell me more about how this laissez-faire 'free-market' idea is worse because someone might form a monopoly or a cartel...   ::)

« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 03:45:13 PM by moonsweeper »
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Pat

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2021, 03:48:28 PM »
The Internet is *not* free. The Internet costs *money*. Facebook and Twitter pay tons of money to buy Internet servers and develop the technology for their service. In a capitalist system, this means that they control what they paid for. They don't have to let you use their servers.
As has been pointed out, the US is very far from being a capitalist system. You can't argue the natural right of free individuals to make their own decisions in the free market applies to the state and the corporations they're in bed with in a cronyist and corporatist system.

EOTB

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2021, 04:01:20 PM »
You can’t, however, pick and choose among the many tenants running dog fights on your property, and boot only one of them.  If you want to rely on dog fighting as your justification

With rental tenants, this depends on the nature of the rental contract. Legally, if multiple renters violate the terms of the contract, the landlord is *allowed* to evict them - but they usually aren't *required* to evict them.

It's the landlord's property, so they generally have a lot of discretion to do with it what they like. Maybe their drinking buddy is renting one of the properties, and they let their bud keep a cat even though the standard contract says "no pets". Or maybe they let the bud go for three months without paying, but they require other tenants to always pay on time or be evicted.

Some states and/or towns have specific renters-rights laws to put more restrictions on what landlords can do with their property, but of course those won't apply to Amazon and its servers.

Then crying “because dog fights” isn’t much of a justification then, is it?  Now we’re down to I can do whatever I want because current law allows me to.  And crying dog fighting was always bullshit of the first order.
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HappyDaze

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2021, 04:05:27 PM »
Was it a government agency that kicked parler off of Amazon? Was it Amazon itself? Is amazon a regulatory agency?
Effectively, Amazon was the landlord that evicted Parler from rental property (servers). Since they said it was because of terms of service violations, it would be like they evicted the tenant that was running dog fights on the property.

Parler wasn't running dog fights.

A better example would be if a landlord evicted someone for being a Republican or Democrat.
I was just using an example that would be against the terms of service/law for a renter. If a landlord has posted terms for renting that are violated, they should be able to enforce them and have renters removed.

HappyDaze

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Re: These FIVE men control your freedom
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2021, 04:09:03 PM »
Was it a government agency that kicked parler off of Amazon? Was it Amazon itself? Is amazon a regulatory agency?
Effectively, Amazon was the landlord that evicted Parler from rental property (servers). Since they said it was because of terms of service violations, it would be like they evicted the tenant that was running dog fights on the property.

If we use this analogy they had an agreement that if Amazon found Parler running dog fights on the property then they would have 30 days to move out.

So welcome to sue-ville Amazon.  Should have stuck to your rental agreement sucker.
That all depends on what the terms of service were. Supposedly Amazon gave them notice some time ago (I don't recall how long ago) and Parler took insufficient action to address it in the eyes of Amazon. Generally speaking, terms of service are massively favorable to the ones writing them, but I don't have the details on this particular agreement.