The war in Ukraine doesn't pass the sniff test

[SHARK]

you got something more tangible to back that statement up than... just a statement?

No, the "50/50" divide and close elections are how the deep state controls the narrative. They want everyone to think the US is split right down the middle and razor thing margins for elections is the norm. The reality is I would fully expect some communist rube to get 85% support in NYC (and this sort of thing happens) and a good ole boy redneck to garner 95% support out in West Texas. And this sort of thing happens. It's ONLY high-profile elections that always seem to devolve into some sort of 50/50 oh look how razor thin these margins are! election nonsense...case in point, if you take away all the cheating, Trump probably won the 2020 election with over 60% support overall, and most likely won 45-47 states. Instead we get massive ballot box stuffing and thousands of verifiable incidents of cheating and a fucking razor thin margin of literally 50k votes. Convenient, eh?

And I'll say it again, I would trust the Russian election system over the US one at this point, at least on a national level. At least the Russian propaganda machine is pretty open about what they're doing; the US media hides behind a bunch of laws and "1st Amendment!" bullshit to promote pure trash and call it facts.

Greetings!

Excellent, Brad!

Also, yes. I love your analysis of American politics and corruption. That is how the grift and the corruption is maintained--by propping up precisely that fascade. By now, there have been more than a few authors, writers, scholars, that have written about the "Illusion of Democracy"--that essentially the Deep State works very hard at cultivating agreeable candidates--harvested from the uniparty that ultimately serves the interests of the Deep State--Oh, I meant the Democrats and the Republicans--the Deep State then through manipulating the media, orchestrating scandals, and backdoor corruption and deals, maintains the entire illusion that we have a reliable, fair "Democracy." That's why when a live wire like Trump comes along, that is not part of the stable of corrupt horses run by the Deep State--there is this absolute panic, followed by shrill, incoherent rage and hatred. This just cannot be allowed! The Deep State wants to fix the national election process so that it literally becomes just like the system that the Democrats have engineered in California. The Democrats always win, and the Republicans still exist--but field nice, safe candidates like John McCain, and Mitt Romney. Candidates that cheerfully embrace "losing gracefully."

On a smaller scale, we can see all of this at work, throughout the country, over the last 30 years in particular. With Republican state candidates and politicians, even when they do win--and despite endless campaign promises and declarations made to the people--once they are firmly in office, somehow, nothing that resembles Conservative goals is ever really accomplished. Somehow, we start to really focus in on a deep reality--the Republicans--so many of them--are in fact, the same as the Liberal Democrats. They just want to drive America off the cliff at a slower speed limit than the Democrats. But the destination they want to drive the country in is essentially the same.

MILLIONS of Americans are now aware and conscious of this reality, and are justifiably furious. This is what is "radicalizing" so many Conservatives, waking up to how especially in the last 20 to 30 years, our political system has become increasingly corrupt, to a sickening and disgusting level. That is because the Deep State of course, has to increase and accelerate changes, so as to better prepare everything for a stronger, Globalist government.

"Why can't we be civil anymore? Why are we so polarized politically? Why are people now so mean and harsh to each other?" We hear the media cry and sob. The Democrats, especially, lead with this kind of mewling. That is because America is aware of the fucking fraud, the lies, the fucking corruption, and increasingly wants more authenticity and accountability. And the Democrats can't stand it. They of course, must then resort to more frequent, and heavier-handed forms of cheating in order to keep "winning" elections, so they can maintain their power. Corrupt Republicans go right along with them.

Remember, too, lots of these Uniparty scumbags actually fuck each other. They date each other, and even get married and have families together. Meanwhile, others have their kids dating each other. Then, beyond that, so many of these corrupt fucktards have dinners together, smoking cigars and drinking fine liquors, while they all laugh at how they fuck over the American people together, and continue to get rich. They go to the same golf tournaments, smoking cigars, and making plans and deals--all aimed at enriching themselves, and fucking over the American people.

The corrupt fucktards hate that this reality has reached the American people, and the American people have some media sources that keep track of all the BS. And, more and more Conservatives simply are fed up endlessly with the BS corruption, and are making this all known far and wide. We have seen again and again, at so many levels, how corrupt both parties have been, and how compromised most of them are. We have especially gotten front-row seats at viewing how the Democrats fuck and prune themselves, crushing dissidents and opposition even within the Democratic party. Remember Bernie Sanders campaign? The revelations flow about how the DNC bribes, undercuts funding, blackballs, and schemes together at the highest levels--behind closed doors--to betray and stab Democrat candidates in the back, and fuck them. All of this grossly violates the rules, laws, and values of American principles, and our Republic. And, of course, we know also that the Republicans wrestle with the same problems. (See Campaign funding and blackballing scandals of numerous Republican candidates that didn't bow down to the RNC/Deep State agenda.) This is what drives half of the GOP to seethe and hate President Trump. The "Never Trumpers!". The fake "Conservatives" that hate and oppose Trump--meanwhile, their entire agenda lines up very nicely with Liberal Cuck politics and agendas.

So, yes, my friend. American politics are getting more interesting and definitely more *SPICY*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Klava, it is great to hear your perspective and experience on this, my friend! I'm not surprised that President Putin is enormously popular in Russia. Despite what the Media here in America likes to shriek about, there are many independent media sources that discuss the truth. Many Americans know that President Putin is very popular in Russia, and respect him as an intelligent, strong, and effective leader. As the video I posted by Dr. Steve Turley discusses--again, contrary to the dominant American message--out in the wider world, millions of people celebrate President Putin as an outstanding leader. People in India, Asia, Africa, the Middle East, EUROPE, and South America.

The video also interviews Russian people, explaining their support for President Putin. Cool stuff.

I hear that Russia's economy is BOOMING and really getting strong. Having a healthy economy makes everyone happy!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

thank you, SHARK. i think i expressed my opinions on mr.putin & co before - let's just say, there's no love lost there - but, judging by what i can see going on around me, it would be completely foolish not to acknowledge his total domination of political scene in russia atm.

on economy booming - well, divide what you hear that by about a hundred. there's some stuff going on, yes, but with central bank rate at 16% i don't think any actual growth is possible at all (but don't quote me on that ), and there's only so much oil that one can pump and sell. i'm not exactly hopeful, but we'll see.

Greetings!

Of course, my friend.

Klava, are you familiar with "International Liberalism"? Global, International Liberalism arrogantly assumes that American Liberalism is Universal. The entire world all thinks the same way, believes the same way, values the same things, and wants the same things. That is, all people, everywhere, want to be just like Americans. And, of course, if they don't, well, they just need to be properly educated. If being educated and bribed with American dollars doesn't work, well then. We have United States Marines, aircraft carriers, and awesome high-tech stealth bombers to make these people "see the light."

Come to think of it...so much of it is very similar to International Communism. *Laughing*

It is important to remember how sadly ignorant, uneducated, and brainwashed many Americans are. Many Americans embrace International Liberalism. We arrogantly assume everyone values the same things we do. And, goddamnit, if they do not, well, then they are evil and corrupt, and must be punished. They will submit, and bow down, one way or the other. Americans, especially Liberal Democrats, are the most arrogant and corrupt of all. They cannot imagine that anyone else does not share the same values as Liberal America. Conservative America has very different values and ideas though--which is what our whole "Culture War" is all about. Liberal Americans cannot comprehend how other people, different people, do not value what they value. Or even if they share similar values, the different people rank them in different orders of priority. Or the different people *interpret* those values differently.

Or, reject them entirely, and prefer a different set of values, with different priorities.

We can see this in religion, politics, social systems, economic systems.

If you do not embrace the system of the Liberal Americans, then you are evil, and wicked, and corrupt. You need a regime change. You are uneducated, and ignorant. You need to be "Liberated". This is how these morons think. It reflects how truly uneducated Liberal Americans are. It reflects how full of hypocrisy and corruption Liberal Americans are.

How about truly respecting other people, and embracing their differences? That is impossible for Liberal Americans, because they are brainwashed. Only the Liberal American system is moral, and right, and true.

The Liberal Americans are uneducated--despite their college degrees. They are inexperienced. They have not travelled, or truly experienced relationships with different, foreign people. The Liberal Americans are arrogant, and proud, and brainwashed. They refuse to pull their heads out of their asses and realize--and accept--that people across the world do not want a life of Liberal America.

These sad, brainwashed and uneducated Americans cannot comprehend how other different foreign people do not live like they do, and are also very happy and satisfied being different from Liberal America. This also means that Liberal Americans really are ill-mannered, and disrespectful mongrels that have no idea how to value and respect other people that are different from them. This is an enormous moral failure, but they are too brainwashed to ever see this deep truth.

This is all why the Liberal Americans sneer and scream and shriek at Russia. You don't embrace fucking Feminism! You don't tolerate homosexuals running everywhere! You don't tolerate criminals! You don't accept mentally-ill freaks running free in society! On and on. The Liberal Americans hate everyone that is different from them.

In truth, though, most of the world rejects Liberal America. This is increasingly what we are seeing throughout the world, and it is driving the Liberal Americans crazy. Driving them insane with fear, rage, and hatred.

Russia embraces different values, and a different political system. Good! I like genuine diversity, personally. India is very different. Hell, Mexico has different values than Liberal Americans. So does Thailand. Thailand is ruled by a KING. They do not have democracy. They are also Buddhist in religion. They honour many social and family traditions that are very different from Liberal America. And they love their King. They have ZERO desire to be like Liberal America. Good for Thailand! Thailand is beautiful, with amazing and wonderful people. Japan! Japan does not share all of the Liberal American values. Japanese people are also different, and wonderful. Russians are different, and wonderful. You have every right to be RUSSIA. Fuck what Liberal Americans want.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Garry G]

So it's all moral relativism? I thought that was supposed to be a bad idea.

[SHARK]

So it's all moral relativism? I thought that was supposed to be a bad idea.

Greetings!

Moral Relativism? Well, no. Personally, I do not like Moral Relativism at all. However, there are different scopes of application, internally to a particular country, and externally to such particular countries. Individual morals, ethics, values, and principles, and then there are a myriad different social and cultural customs that differ from each other. A simplistic approach is to interpret and consider all of these different things to fall under the classification of *morals*, or *morality*, when they in fact do not.

Don't you believe that people, nations, have a sovereign right to self-determination?

Thailand can embrace a monarchy as their chosen system of government. By them choosing monarchy--and rejecting democracy--does that make them immoral? Does that make them inferior to the West, or Liberal America?

It is a different form of government, that does not necessarily have any relation to morality.

Even if you choose to interpret it differently, who says YOU are the arbiter of what is good, right, and true?

That line of reasoning just gets into the endless weeds of stupidity in my view. Thailand can embrace monarchy all they like. It is a political systems argument, not a moral argument. Morality has very little to do with it, in my view. Like throughout life, many things just *are*. Tools, systems, styles, approaches. Different techniques to achieve desired goals. It is what it is.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Brad]

Liberals are all about moral relativism until someone does something they don't like.

[jhkim]

So it's all moral relativism? I thought that was supposed to be a bad idea.

Don't you believe that people, nations, have a sovereign right to self-determination?

Thailand can embrace a monarchy as their chosen system of government. By them choosing monarchy--and rejecting democracy--does that make them immoral? Does that make them inferior to the West, or Liberal America?

It is a different form of government, that does not necessarily have any relation to morality.

You claim that Thailand chose monarchy. Do you think that Iran chose Ali Khamenei as their supreme leader? Or that North Korea chose Juche and Kim Jong Un's leadership? My father was born in what is now North Korea, and I have relatives there that it is impossible for me to contact.

People should be free to elect their own leaders and control their own countries. If the people vote in a constitutional monarchy like Japan or Sweden or the UK, that's an option -- but I think it doesn't make sense to say that people "choose" autocratic leaders like Kim Jong Un or Ali Khameini. It's blatant to me that the people don't have a free choice. Supporting democratic process isn't supporting the West subjugating everyone else. It's the opposite. The U.S. has a long history of supporting dictators who are favorable to them -- including our support of Saudi Arabia today. Many of the democratic revolutions in modern times -- like the Arab Spring -- have been largely anti-American, and that's fine.

[SHARK]

So it's all moral relativism? I thought that was supposed to be a bad idea.

Don't you believe that people, nations, have a sovereign right to self-determination?

Thailand can embrace a monarchy as their chosen system of government. By them choosing monarchy--and rejecting democracy--does that make them immoral? Does that make them inferior to the West, or Liberal America?

It is a different form of government, that does not necessarily have any relation to morality.

You claim that Thailand chose monarchy. Do you think that Iran chose Ali Khamenei as their supreme leader? Or that North Korea chose Juche and Kim Jong Un's leadership? My father was born in what is now North Korea, and I have relatives there that it is impossible for me to contact.

People should be free to elect their own leaders and control their own countries. If the people vote in a constitutional monarchy like Japan or Sweden or the UK, that's an option -- but I think it doesn't make sense to say that people "choose" autocratic leaders like Kim Jong Un or Ali Khameini. It's blatant to me that the people don't have a free choice. Supporting democratic process isn't supporting the West subjugating everyone else. It's the opposite. The U.S. has a long history of supporting dictators who are favorable to them -- including our support of Saudi Arabia today. Many of the democratic revolutions in modern times -- like the Arab Spring -- have been largely anti-American, and that's fine.

Greetings!

Well, Jhkim, I have friends that actually live in Thailand. They have told me that they approve of their monarchy very much, and support their government. While the King of Thailand may have not been *elected*--the Thai people have de facto chosen monarchy as the government for their country. This reality is also reflected in a long-standing, stable, and successful society, economy, and government there for many, many years now. I also recall Thailand has had referendums or something like it, where the Thai people were asked if they wanted the Royal Monarchy of Thailand to change or abdicate. The answer has been a resounding NO. The people of Thailand clearly support their monarchy. Try going to Thailand, and experiencing what it is like.

I never said that North Korea chose their leader. Nor did I say that Iran chose their leader.

What I did say, however, as well as imply, is that many, many different countries have very different cultures that have different values than the Liberal American. To various degrees, that encompasses politics, economy, education, religion, jurisprudence, language, and everything else. These different cultures have a sovereign right to be different, and have different values and priorities, whether Liberal Americans like it or not. They do not need to seek or have our fucking approval or permission.

Americans really need to gain experience with different, foreign people. Just think about how your entire viewpoint on so many things just might radically change from seeing and experiencing places and people such as China, Mexico, the Philippines, Thailand, India, Singapore, and Japan. Then, of course, France, Germany, Britain, Italy, Norway, Finland, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Ireland. Places like Syria, Egypt, Turkey, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran are very different. Hell, Mexico is very different. Puerto Rico, Jamaica, Brazil, Ecuador, as well. People from Ghana, Kenya, Nigeria, Mozambique. They are very different. Even when they embrace a similar religion, they are very different. What they value, how they prioritize those values, are all things that can be and are very different from the system that Liberal America proclaims is the absolute truth and the right way for everyone.

That is what International Liberalism is all about, Jhkim. A universal application and enforcement--of Liberal American values. Even beyond that, it assumes that all people everywhere actually genuinely desire to embrace Liberal American values and systems.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[ralfy]

Ever since the war kicked off last year, I found the coverage of all of it a bit heavy handed with the pro-Ukraine propaganda.  It seemed a bit weird.  It got even weirder when it was discovered that there's active Fascist groups being financed by the US government in the war effort but the lefties were still all aboard for it.

The prevailing theory among my conservative friends was that we are involved to keep Russia from getting material to expose Biden.  Ok, but that doesn't seem to me to be enough to explain the level of support that's taking place.

Then I learned a bombshell.  The US is financing a project to rebuild Ukraine to the tune of $400billion.  The US government has awarded the contract to Chase and BlackRock.

BlackRock is the company that's been involved with pushing ESG into the work culture in the US and the culture war in entertainment.  In the past year, they've been loosing massive amounts of money and has scaled back their support of companies they've been giving money to to counteract the market losses sustained.  The Bud Light fall is a demonstration of this.  Now they are going to have their hands on hundreds of billions of dollars.

That's right:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/28/zelenskyy-blackrock-ceo-fink-agree-to-coordinate-ukraine-investment.html

In addition, the military industrial complex also profits:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/15/world/europe/ukraine-weapons.html

That's because the U.S. is a warmongering country and promotes a combination of neoliberalism (as implied in the first point) and neoconservatism (a seen in the second point) in order to protect the dollar, because without it it can't continue heavy borrowing and spending, which is what it's been doing as part of voodoo economics since the early 1980s:

https://seekingalpha.com/article/164163-krugman-and-the-pied-pipers-of-debt

It has to do that because of the Triffin dilemma: with the dollar used as a global reserve currency its value has to remain high, which means the U.S., the country that produces it, will eventually experience chronic trade deficits and has to resort to borrowing in order to cover heavy spending. Those deficits did happen, starting in the mid-1970s.

Why the heavy spending? Part of it is needed to keep the gullible U.S. public happy through consumer spending and financial gambling, e.g., flipping houses. That's why that public has not been protesting against war since the end of the Vietnam war. Also, it's that financial gambling that led to the 2008 crash.

What's the connection? The other part of that spending involves the military. The U.S. is an imperialist country, with over 700 military bases and installations worldwide, and has been engaged in mayhem, together with its NATO allies, leading to millions dead:

https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/

Why isn't the public protesting? Because they are foolish to believe a media mostly controlled by the rich:

https://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6

that these wars are fought in the name of "freedom" and "democracy". In reality, they're fought to keep countries weak and dependent on the dollar, and at the same time for banks and armaments industries to profit.

Another reason why the public allows this is because 70 pct of the total wealth of the U.S. is controlled by only 10 pct of its population:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/richest-10-percent-own-70-of-wealth-161536204.html

That's the same rich people whose wealth is managed by--that's right, Blackrock. And that's the same rich people that own much of that media and also fund the defense industry that arms the U.S. military and sells to many other countries, making the U.S. not only a warmonger but also the biggest arms dealer in the world.

Even if the public were to know these things, could they stop the rich? No, because the other 90 pct of Americans, which includes both political parties, are dependent on the same rich for credit needed for increasing spending.

That's why much of what you see is pro-Ukraine propaganda, and what happened to Ukraine has been happening to many other countries for decades:

https://sites.evergreen.edu/zoltan/interventions/

The U.S. uses institutions like the IMF-WB to implement structural adjustment and loans or financial aid with strings attached, or engages in assassinations, destabilization, support of armed groups, and activists via color revolutions involving NGOs financed by the CIA, and so on. Even the NYT just exposed this recently:

https://news.yahoo.com/spy-war-cia-secretly-helps-172754832.html

And they with the government was manipulating not only Ukraine but even Russia and other former Soviet republics since the 1990s:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/01/18/bill-clintons-role-in-the-crisis-over-ukraine/

It even reached a point when the same U.S. tried to get Russia to join NATO:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/obama-administration-says-russia-could-join-nato/

together with the "democratic" Ukraine whose leader wants to turn it into a "big Israel":

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/zelenskyy-wants-ukraine-to-be-a-big-israel-heres-a-road-map/

And that's the same Israel which one now-President saw, and probably together with other countries to be used, as "tools" for investment and to control regions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67KkWeF3r08

I expect accusations of "Russian propaganda" to be made even though many of these points not only come from mainstream media but even from the horse's mouth, such as the Atlantic Council. Why? Because in the end, you can't reverse decades of Reaganite brainwashing. In the eyes of the U.S. public, and to paraphrase Dubya, either you're with the U.S., the beacon of freedom and democracy, or you're with the terrorists, which is everyone who dares to question it.

[orbitalair]

I am glad I am not the only one to see these things in the us gov. today.
Seems a large group of folks know whats going on.

Let me add that I am 59yo, grew up in the 70s where the USSR was constantly the boogeyman, and there were constant wars in the Middle East.  It was constant mil spending.

One can build a case that Kissinger and the USA were behind all those wars, that the same cabel of people are doing the same thing right now.  How vietnam, iraq 1 & 2, arab spring, afghanistan, syria, and now ukraine are all the same playbook, just different banking zones.

Kissinger trained Klaus Schwaub and Vicki Nuland, and dozens more.  Nuland gets the insane idea that the usa can win a nuclear war from kissinger.  only it requires that we dont follow any laws, while our enemy will be hamstrung by laws.  What idiot doenst think that if nukes fly, anyone anywhere is going to follow any rules or laws ??

[Garry G]

Liberals are all about moral relativism until someone does something they don't like.

And vice versa it seems.

[jhkim]

Do you think that the freedom of speech and freedom of political activity play into that? It seems to me that there is a major difference in freedom of speech. Here in the U.S., I see lots of people who openly support either Trump or Biden -- and plenty of public commentary either way -- but I gather than being actively anti-Putin is more dangerous in Russia today. But I'd be interested in your take on that.

but, to answer your questions - no, there's not much of what you'd call "freedom of speech" in russia. you wanna call someone a wanker - you can, but be ready to answer for that. oh, and if one feels like today he sexually identifies as a shishkebab and would like his pronouns to be "their tasty awesomeness/... awesomni(?)" he better keep that to himself or risk getting locked in a padded cell.
same goes for political activity.
so yes, there's definitely a major difference there and it most certainly affects communications going between people like you and me, but, as you can probably see, i'm not the one stating what "vote total" i will accept as legitimate result of elections here - other people do.

Hey, klava. To be clear, I haven't made any claims about Putin's 2024 election. I haven't researched it enough to know. Where I'm coming from is as the son of someone born in what is now North Korea. I think the U.S. did a lot of bad shit in its handling of Korea, and I've tried to understand the point of view of my family members who stayed in North Korea. But ultimately, I am opposed to the North Korean regime and I side with the South Koreans and Americans who fought against them.

I visited Moscow in 2009, and tried to learn what I could during my time there. I've also talked to a dozen of people from Russia and in Russia. Almost certainly because of the bias of people who will talk to me, most of the Russians I've talked to have been opposed to Putin, but I understand that he is popular there.

I'm not especially ra-ra American in general, but I am strongly opposed to many authoritarian regimes out there - especially North Korea, but others as well.

you know, the problem with you, people, is that, seemingly simply because your money lenders managed to engage the whole world in a ponzi scheme with them on top, you (well, a lot of you) now actually believe that you have discovered an answer to the ultimate question of universe life and everything, or something. here's a hint for you - no, you haven't, the history goes on, get a grip.

when does freedom of speech becomes freedom of slander, deceit and manipulation?
when does freedom of political activity becomes freedom of treason?
do you ever think that other nations and peoples may have different notions of that stuff?

the more you keep judging the whole world by those arbitrary standards you set for yourself (that don't even seem to work that well for you ffs) the less the world is going to listen to whatever you have to say.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. One of the pushes for free speech that I've been involved in is in South Korea, which for decades had been ruled by a pro-America military dictatorship. When I first went to Seoul as a young man (circa 1990), I was struck by the busloads of police that were around, cracking down on protesters. When my father was just 12 in the 1940s, he was taken into a police station with his father, and they were both beaten on suspicion of passing money to communists since they were North Koreans.

I don't think that America should rule everywhere. But yes, I believe that the right to free speech - for people to be able to speak their minds is a moral issue.

Free speech and democracy aren't a panacea, but they're better than the alternatives, in my opinion.

I never said that North Korea chose their leader. Nor did I say that Iran chose their leader.

What I did say, however, as well as imply, is that many, many different countries have very different cultures that have different values than the Liberal American. To various degrees, that encompasses politics, economy, education, religion, jurisprudence, language, and everything else. These different cultures have a sovereign right to be different, and have different values and priorities, whether Liberal Americans like it or not. They do not need to seek or have our fucking approval or permission.

SHARK, I agree about this. I've been beating this drum nearly all my life. I'm 54, and I grew up on Star Trek and the aftermath of Vietnam War protests. I was part of the minority who protested against the U.S. military-industrial complex that promoted war in Vietnam, Cambodia, Iran, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan, Iraq, and many others. People elsewhere in the world should have basic human rights, which includes the collective right to decide how to live.

However, I'm also the son of someone born in what is now North Korea. I believe that the U.S. did many things wrong in its handling of Korea, but I also think that the North Koreans were even worse. I am opposed to authoritarian regimes that step on the rights of their citizens.

[Chris24601]

Liberals are all about moral relativism until someone does something they don't like.

And vice versa it seems.

Calling you a moron and ignoring your bilge isn't the same thing as censorship you disingenuous cretin.

You have a right to free speech in America, not a right to be believed.

[Daztur]

I was not making arguments Daz...just pointing out people who cravenly accept certain propaganda are on shaky ground calling out mental acuity.  Reality is you are a leftie, vote democrat, support anti white government policies and are flat out my enemy and the enemy of anyone right of a 90's democrat.  There are no arguments for any of us to make back and forth.  No one is shifting or conceding as we are....enemies.

And you're basing all of these statements about who I am based on what exactly? All of these things must automatically be true about me simply because I hate Putin and thinking that he got 88% of the vote legitimately is laughable? Hell, lots of "anti-imperialist" leftists love Putin because he's sticking a finger in the eye of the US.

I certainly have no love for communists. Communists hacked the limbs off all of my wife's grandma's family and hung them from trees.

[Klava]

Do you think that the freedom of speech and freedom of political activity play into that? It seems to me that there is a major difference in freedom of speech. Here in the U.S., I see lots of people who openly support either Trump or Biden -- and plenty of public commentary either way -- but I gather than being actively anti-Putin is more dangerous in Russia today. But I'd be interested in your take on that.

but, to answer your questions - no, there's not much of what you'd call "freedom of speech" in russia. you wanna call someone a wanker - you can, but be ready to answer for that. oh, and if one feels like today he sexually identifies as a shishkebab and would like his pronouns to be "their tasty awesomeness/... awesomni(?)" he better keep that to himself or risk getting locked in a padded cell.
same goes for political activity.
so yes, there's definitely a major difference there and it most certainly affects communications going between people like you and me, but, as you can probably see, i'm not the one stating what "vote total" i will accept as legitimate result of elections here - other people do.

Hey, klava. To be clear, I haven't made any claims about Putin's 2024 election. I haven't researched it enough to know.

fair enough.

I visited Moscow in 2009, and tried to learn what I could during my time there.

moscow is... interesting to say the least. i reside there myself, been for most of my life (i'm 48 atm), but i also have opportunity to communicate to people from every corner of the nation, basically. moscow is a bizarre salad made of a lot of stuff - just about everything that happened to russa during its long history left it mark on moscow, and most recently it was all covered by a thick layer of "californication" as i'd call it. i detest that last part the most, but what's one person to do - it's there and it's there to stay. the point is, by just visiting moscow you, as a foreigner, experience something you cannot really hope to comprehend without the context that can only be aqcuired over many years of being immersed in the culture and history. and the latest changes i mentioned - which all happened while the clowns we have in power since soviet union's collapse were still hoping to be accepted as full members of western capitalist camarilla - heavily obscure what's there besides, especially to the new eye, used to the western culture.

I've also talked to a dozen of people from Russia and in Russia. Almost certainly because of the bias of people who will talk to me, most of the Russians I've talked to have been opposed to Putin, but I understand that he is popular there.

well, people are part of what i'm talking about. for the longest time any english speaking person you'd find in moscow would be a member of the rotten post-soviet so-called "intelligentsia" that hated russia and everything russian for all the same idiotic reasons that people who just can't get past cold-war propaganda still do in the west. there are of course still rudiments of soviet union permeating social landscape here, but soviet union has been gone for more than thirty years. russia is capitalistic to the core at this time, with all the baggage that entails - all the crap about putin being a "former kgb officer" and so on is as, i said, cold-war leftover bs, totally irrelevant now.

so, do putin and co play on different national and social field? - absolutely. russian mentality, traditions, perceptions of things like "freedom if speech" "legitimacy of power" and all that are vastly different from those in the west,  so yes, they push different political buttons to get into power and maintain it's legitimacy in russia. and they give less and less fucks about what you think about it in the west, especially after seeing what imperialistic fucking assholes you have in power there been doing around the world since there wasn't soviet union to counter-balance them anymore.

I'm not sure where you're going with this.
...
Free speech and democracy aren't a panacea, but they're better than the alternatives, in my opinion.

i hope i explained myself better this time. maybe i'm jumping at something that's not really there - if so, i apologize. being constantly called names and ridiculed simply for being a russian and having a different perspective on things  does affect one sometimes. i'd just note that if your whole point is that you jhkim is for everything that's good and against everythihng that's not, that doesn't leave much room for discussion, you know.

[oggsmash]

I was not making arguments Daz...just pointing out people who cravenly accept certain propaganda are on shaky ground calling out mental acuity.  Reality is you are a leftie, vote democrat, support anti white government policies and are flat out my enemy and the enemy of anyone right of a 90's democrat.  There are no arguments for any of us to make back and forth.  No one is shifting or conceding as we are....enemies.

And you're basing all of these statements about who I am based on what exactly? All of these things must automatically be true about me simply because I hate Putin and thinking that he got 88% of the vote legitimately is laughable? Hell, lots of "anti-imperialist" leftists love Putin because he's sticking a finger in the eye of the US.

I certainly have no love for communists. Communists hacked the limbs off all of my wife's grandma's family and hung them from trees.

  You vote democrat, you get clot shots.  That is all I have to know about you.   Hating Putin does not factor into it at all.