The security state, censorship, and election interference

[Chris24601]

In a red Maga state, you really see what normal is. You get to experience genuine safety, patriotism, unity, and freedom.

This is a false generalization. It's true that Idaho has lower crime rates than California, but California has less violent crime than Texas, and much less than the most lethal crime states (Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas) - all of which are red states. Here's a map of homicide rates, for example:

Note the YEAR for that map... i.e. 2020. Which means the stats are probably 2019.

So, pre-BLM burning cities, pre-Defund the Police, pre-mass invasion of illegals and criminal cartels pumping drugs across open borders.

Also helpful would be looking at those numbers in the urban areas vs. the numbers in the rural areas... because even the Red-States have blue cities, the Blue-States have massive swaths of red rural areas.

It's yet again the region no one trusts the Left; like jhkim, they selectively quote and cite and hope people won't notice their lies by omission.

What's absolutely hilarious will be when the barbarians rip the Left in the cities apart as they scream and wonder why being an "ally" didn't buy them an iota of mercy.

[oggsmash]

  Are we REALLY trying to play the red states have higher homicide rates because they are red states game?   I wonder...if there is some statistic we could find that could POSSIBLY explain why the blue state of Maine has a lower homicide rate than say red state Mississippi?   I can assure you of this...it will not be the mike drop stat you are looking for in this red state/blue state BS comparison you are attempting here.

  I will offer some help...92 percent of a demographic as juxtaposed to 1.44 percent of another demographic in Maine.  57.8 percent versus 37.8 percent in Miss.   If we REALLY wanted to talk blue and red...we might find out those red states have some VERY blue cities with a demographic that seems to...for some unexplained reason no one understands...always have the highest homicide rates....

[jhkim]

Sorry, Jhkim. Your stats, your graphs, whatever, are all fucking wrong.

I am a native Californian. I lived most of my life in Southern California, for the best part of 30 years. I have LIVED in Huntington Beach, Anaheim, Costa Mesa, Orange, Norwalk. I lived and worked in these cities for YEARS. I know the freeways. I know the neighborhoods. I know the people. I know the work environment. I know all about the local areas, what areas are good, what areas are bad--and what areas and cities have CHANGED. HOW they have changed, and WHY.

SHARK, how long have you been living in Idaho? I've been living in California for 26 years. I've gone to a bunch of city council meetings and gotten involved through my church in many local-area efforts. I've seen different people living in the same town give completely different politically-charged rhetoric about their home areas.

Different people even living in the same town may speak differently about what they think about crime and safety. That's why having actual data is important.

Note the YEAR for that map... i.e. 2020. Which means the stats are probably 2019.

So, pre-BLM burning cities, pre-Defund the Police, pre-mass invasion of illegals and criminal cartels pumping drugs across open borders.

That map was posted in 2022, and it is labelled as 2020 data. I can't find a linkable image of the map, but you can get a map of the 2021 data here:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

And you can get the 2022 data from the FBI's UCR crime trend, though not in colored-map form:

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

None of the updated data changes what I said. The state-by-state trends are roughly the same. Crime overall went up in 2020, especially the homicide rate, but that is true in red states like Idaho just as much as in blue states like California. Idaho has a low murder rate, but it went up (in rate per 100k population) from 1.6 (2019) to 2.2 (2020).

  Are we REALLY trying to play the red states have higher homicide rates because they are red states game?

oggsmash, I explicitly said that crime rates do not trend with red-vs-blue. I think part of the problem is the bullshit of media. Regardless of red-vs-blue, I don't think media or social-media convey the reality of crime rates. In general, the media's political story-telling is different from reality.

SHARK claimed that moving to a red state would make a huge difference in safety. I think that generalization is false. If he were to say "Moving out of a big city to a rural area will mean lower crime risk", then I'd agree. Though in terms of general safety, rural areas have higher overall death rates than urban areas in the U.S.

[DocJones]

Diversity kills...

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Yes, this is one of my favourite Christian gospel songs. Blue Grass tradition, from way back. This little girl singing like an angel from heaven? Absolutely beautiful. I could listen to her read me a phone book! Her band is fantastic, and the woman fiddle player! Yeah, damn sweet!

This little girl singing so fine, and her entire band, sound straight out of the holler somewhere in Kentucky! Simply amazing and wonderful music! Watch her expression, and listen to her diction, and pitch. Jumping bananas, she's an angel! Perfect rendition of this old Christian classic!

Ahh, but the interesting thing about her and her entire band, so wonderful--they are born and bred in NORWAY. Evidently they immigrated here to America a few years back.

SHOUT OUT TO TROND!

This woman here and her band is the kind of "diversity" I can appreciate!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[blackstone]

I'm so fed up with how the country is, I'm no longer voting.

It doesn't matter.

Let it all burn.

Well, I reckon it's worth one more try; but I do understand your pessimism.  At this point; the political parties involved, are merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  The good ol' USA now runs a publicized Deficit, of 1 Trillion Dollars every 100 Days.  That's 10 Billion Dollars Per Day, and the Rate is Accelerating.....

First Post, by the way.  Hello Everyone!!!

Welcome, we can always use another fighting man to man the gates.

Got my own guns, ammo, and combat experience. I'll be ready to man up.

[blackstone]

I see the jhkimBot is really working hard for the Left here: throw up useless statistics while being ignorant of the reality on the ground.

ANYONE can fudge stats and numbers, especially those who want to remain in power.

You can grandstand and yell "look at the numbers! You're WRONG!" all day...and yet look at San Fran and L.A. now.

Shitholes.

I've seen the before and after what the Demo-rats have done to Cali. Lived in Las Vegas, Nevada in the 90s and the flight from Cali was starting even then. Many people saw the writing on the wall and got the fuck out, leaving in droves to Nevada and Arizona. And this was the 90s, a generally prosperous period in the US.

"But, but..the rural areas!" you might say.

Doesn't matter. Shitty laws and taxes affect EVERYONE. IT's only a matter of time before the shit spills over into the rural communities.

Wasn't there a movement of Cali voters trying to have part of the state succeed from Cali and form their own state? Just for the very reasons I've listed?

I'm sure that's been squashed/suppressed by the Demo-rats.

But, please, tell us how everything is all sunshine and roses in California, where human feces and used syringes are all over the streets of San Francisco, which was once one of the most beautiful cities in the USA, and where if you steal less than $900 in merchandise you won't even get thrown in jail?

[oggsmash]

 Rural areas might have a higher rate of death...but that is probably more due to old people having heart attacks far away from a hospital.  They also have MUCH lower rates of being shot by feral urban inhabitants.   Shark should have said a red area/county instead of red state IMO.  Because you are certainly right jhkim, a red state with a very blue city will be very dangerous indeed.

[SHARK]

I see the jhkimBot is really working hard for the Left here: throw up useless statistics while being ignorant of the reality on the ground.

ANYONE can fudge stats and numbers, especially those who want to remain in power.

You can grandstand and yell "look at the numbers! You're WRONG!" all day...and yet look at San Fran and L.A. now.

Shitholes.

I've seen the before and after what the Demo-rats have done to Cali. Lived in Las Vegas, Nevada in the 90s and the flight from Cali was starting even then. Many people saw the writing on the wall and got the fuck out, leaving in droves to Nevada and Arizona. And this was the 90s, a generally prosperous period in the US.

"But, but..the rural areas!" you might say.

Doesn't matter. Shitty laws and taxes affect EVERYONE. IT's only a matter of time before the shit spills over into the rural communities.

Wasn't there a movement of Cali voters trying to have part of the state succeed from Cali and form their own state? Just for the very reasons I've listed?

I'm sure that's been squashed/suppressed by the Demo-rats.

But, please, tell us how everything is all sunshine and roses in California, where human feces and used syringes are all over the streets of San Francisco, which was once one of the most beautiful cities in the USA, and where if you steal less than $900 in merchandise you won't even get thrown in jail?

Greetings!

PREACH IT, Brother!

Absolutely spot on!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[blackstone]

Yeah, I hate to be that way, but there's an old saying where I'm from:

"don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining"

[jhkim]

I see the jhkimBot is really working hard for the Left here: throw up useless statistics while being ignorant of the reality on the ground.

ANYONE can fudge stats and numbers, especially those who want to remain in power.

You can grandstand and yell "look at the numbers! You're WRONG!" all day...and yet look at San Fran and L.A. now.

Where do you live, blackstone? I've been living in California for the last 26 years, and am currently in Santa Clara - in the SF Bay area. I was in SF yesterday to have lunch with a friend, and I'll be going there tomorrow to have dinner with my sister who's visiting.

For me, the "reality on the ground" is the city I regularly visit and walk the streets of. How do you know the reality of San Francisco?

I didn't offer my personal experience about that because I think it's more objective to talk about the bigger picture and stats, and I doubt anyone would take that as more definitive. As I said to SHARK, different people can live in the same town and say different things about it.

I'm open to other sources of evidence about crime rates. But no, I don't accept your word over what I see with my own eyes.

[oggsmash]

 I think there are some things leftists will stick to no matter what.  I think trusting ANYTHING an enemy tells me is beyond foolish.  I think if people like living in the bay area...good on them.  I also suspect people living in that area know the places they can go, cant go, and shouldnt go. 

[blackstone]

I see the jhkimBot is really working hard for the Left here: throw up useless statistics while being ignorant of the reality on the ground.

ANYONE can fudge stats and numbers, especially those who want to remain in power.

You can grandstand and yell "look at the numbers! You're WRONG!" all day...and yet look at San Fran and L.A. now.

Where do you live, blackstone? I've been living in California for the last 26 years, and am currently in Santa Clara - in the SF Bay area. I was in SF yesterday to have lunch with a friend, and I'll be going there tomorrow to have dinner with my sister who's visiting.

For me, the "reality on the ground" is the city I regularly visit and walk the streets of. How do you know the reality of San Francisco?

I didn't offer my personal experience about that because I think it's more objective to talk about the bigger picture and stats, and I doubt anyone would take that as more definitive. As I said to SHARK, different people can live in the same town and say different things about it.

I'm open to other sources of evidence about crime rates. But no, I don't accept your word over what I see with my own eyes.

you do you, man.

[I]

Diversity kills...

LOL I know.  The elephant in the room that libtards would like to ignore. 

[jhkim]

Diversity kills...

DocJones, do you have the numbers behind those maps? The main trends I see is similar to the state-level crime maps I showed before. There are high crime rates around the high black population and high poverty region in the Southeast around Mississippi, as well as on Native American reservations.

Outside of those two most obvious trends, it's less clear. A geographic area map makes it harder to see the dominant population in cities. For example, among big cities, the SF Bay Area is minority white -- and has lower crime rates than the most majority white cities like Columbus or Indianapolis. Here's a list of the biggest U.S. cities by percentage white population:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_percentage_of_white_population

There doesn't seem to be any clear correlation to crime rate that I see in that list. Columbus and Indianapolis are the cities with the highest non-Hispanic white population, but they aren't the lowest crime.

There is a similar issue with left-right politics. Big cities trend more blue -- and big cities also have higher crime than small-town and rural areas. However, among big cities, there isn't a simple correlation between which are most Democrat and which are highest crime. Forth Worth and Oklahoma City are examples of the uncommon Republican-majority cities - and their crime rates aren't particularly different from other cities of their size.

I think there are some things leftists will stick to no matter what.  I think trusting ANYTHING an enemy tells me is beyond foolish.  I think if people like living in the bay area...good on them.  I also suspect people living in that area know the places they can go, cant go, and shouldnt go.

I'd say that most people - left or right - are set in their political positions, and it's hard to discuss evidence objectively. This is just as true in issues like nuclear power as in crime rates.

As for the Bay Area, sure. In general, poorly lit areas around poor neighborhoods are more dangerous. That's a general rule for me regardless of where I am.

I have lots of problems with how the Bay Area and California is run, and I'm not always simple left-right. I do know two people who were murdered. They both were killed in domestic violence incidents. My fiancee's mother was killed when her friend's estranged husband came to the house - this was in a small-town red area of California (Redding). Also, I had a friend who was killed by her partner, which was at their home in a wealthy, low-crime blue suburb.