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Author Topic: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot  (Read 1621 times)

Ghostmaker

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2022, 08:10:31 AM »
   I think he harped on Americans because the spirit of the founding of the USA was not weaklings screeching about a virus with masks on, it was people going out to the middle of nowhere, cutting down trees and establishing a life with family and burying their dead as they went.  People today are a long fucking ways from that.

Dunno when you think that "today" starts, but during the Spanish Flu Americans looked down at that virus with the same derision and got between 500,000 and 850,000 deaths when the US population was around 105 millions (congratulations to current US for having obtained the "1,000,000 dead from COVID!" achievement, BTW).

I think that the author of this "excellent article" will get a Herman Cain Award. The article itself is not entirely truthful, but is is a good example of "accuse the other of what you are doing".

Many Americans have shown that they’re gullible group-thinkers who lack critical thinking skills.

True, and this article is written for them. Nowhere, for example, is even debated the concept of "long COVID" or even "every bed and every ICU unit occupied by someone with COVID are denied to someone with other afflictions; same with the doctor's time." I guess that the answer would be "COVID was never that dangerous (God told me so)."

But why should I spend time deriding debunking an article that declares...

Americans have no tolerance for rational discourse.

Americans are headline readers of cheesy and plainly biased news sources, and they readily internalize slogans and labels.

Americans lack basic pattern recognition and an awareness of history or basic science.


And the glorious closure...

Americans are unwilling to admit they were wrong.

...When I agree with all the above? I even agree with:

If 18th Century Americas were as timid as today’s Americans, British monarchs would still rule us.

...As in "18th Century Americas" ships were quarantined even if germs hadn't been discovered. Saner minds for sure.

 Spanish Flu and Covid are NO WHERE CLOSE IN LETHALITY.

Luckily so: given that Americans (not all of them, of course) are showing the very same same strain of stupidity that we saw with the Spanish Flu, a variant of COVID with the same lethality would have caused by now between 1,750,000 and 2,800,000 dead - not "only" 1,000,000 (while still generating articles as moronic as the one we saw).

I never understood what the cutoff for the US is before people start to say "You know? Maybe this bug is a bit on the strong side". 1,500,000 dead? 2,000,000? 5,000,000? Just to know. Because either COVID will decrease in strength naturally or the States will get there.
> so many deaths!
> conveniently ignores how the federal government tacitly encouraged hospitals to report as many deaths as Covid-related as possible, via funding

Dude.

Reckall

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2022, 10:50:49 AM »
     If people were as fat, unhealthy and old when the spanish flu ran through the kill count would have been much higher in the USA then.  If the USA had some semblance of a real national awareness towards fitness and health, the death toll would have been much, much lower from covid.

What we are saying here is simply "COVID is less lethal than the Spanish Flu in an absolute sense, but current living habits make it more dangerous". Fine, but you must consider lethality in context when deciding how dangerous something is. Bubonic plague with antibiotics is a joke as it is a bacterium, bubonic plague before antibiotics was extremely lethal. Since you can't change living habits on a dime, then you have to treat the reality of the menace as it is. Saying "COVID is not dangerous... as long as we live in 1920!" is saying nothing.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 11:23:02 AM by Reckall »
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oggsmash

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2022, 11:22:34 AM »
     If people were as fat, unhealthy and old when the spanish flu ran through the kill count would have been much higher in the USA then.  If the USA had some semblance of a real national awareness towards fitness and health, the death toll would have been much, much lower from covid.

What we are saying here is simply "COVID is less lethal than the Spanish Flu in an absolute sense, but current living habits make it more dangerous". Fine, but you must consider lethality in context when deciding how dangerous something is. Since you can't change living habits on a dime, then you have to treat the reality of the menace as it is. Saying "COVID is not dangerous... as long as we live in 1920!" is saying nothing.

  I am saying at some point you pay the piper.  If you are weak, frail and barely fit for survival, nature is going to get you.  It is not my fault a person abused themselves for decades.  I do not care to pay the price for it.

Wntrlnd

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2022, 07:11:48 AM »
   I think he harped on Americans because the spirit of the founding of the USA was not weaklings screeching about a virus with masks on, it was people going out to the middle of nowhere, cutting down trees and establishing a life with family and burying their dead as they went.  People today are a long fucking ways from that.

Dunno when you think that "today" starts, but during the Spanish Flu Americans looked down at that virus with the same derision and got between 500,000 and 850,000 deaths when the US population was around 105 millions (congratulations to current US for having obtained the "1,000,000 dead from COVID!" achievement, BTW).

I think that the author of this "excellent article" will get a Herman Cain Award. The article itself is not entirely truthful, but is is a good example of "accuse the other of what you are doing".

Many Americans have shown that they’re gullible group-thinkers who lack critical thinking skills.

True, and this article is written for them. Nowhere, for example, is even debated the concept of "long COVID" or even "every bed and every ICU unit occupied by someone with COVID are denied to someone with other afflictions; same with the doctor's time." I guess that the answer would be "COVID was never that dangerous (God told me so)."

But why should I spend time deriding debunking an article that declares...

Americans have no tolerance for rational discourse.

Americans are headline readers of cheesy and plainly biased news sources, and they readily internalize slogans and labels.

Americans lack basic pattern recognition and an awareness of history or basic science.


And the glorious closure...

Americans are unwilling to admit they were wrong.

...When I agree with all the above? I even agree with:

If 18th Century Americas were as timid as today’s Americans, British monarchs would still rule us.

...As in "18th Century Americas" ships were quarantined even if germs hadn't been discovered. Saner minds for sure.

 Spanish Flu and Covid are NO WHERE CLOSE IN LETHALITY.

Luckily so: given that Americans (not all of them, of course) are showing the very same same strain of stupidity that we saw with the Spanish Flu, a variant of COVID with the same lethality would have caused by now between 1,750,000 and 2,800,000 dead - not "only" 1,000,000 (while still generating articles as moronic as the one we saw).

I never understood what the cutoff for the US is before people start to say "You know? Maybe this bug is a bit on the strong side". 1,500,000 dead? 2,000,000? 5,000,000? Just to know. Because either COVID will decrease in strength naturally or the States will get there.

     If people were as fat, unhealthy and old when the spanish flu ran through the kill count would have been much higher in the USA then.  If the USA had some semblance of a real national awareness towards fitness and health, the death toll would have been much, much lower from covid.

What made the Spanish flu so devastating was that it killed unusually more young and fit people than weak and feeble.

This was because it triggered a cytokine storm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_storm and the healthier and stronger your immune system was, the more powerful the cytokine storm. To put it simple.

Covid-19 also caused similar cytokine storm related deaths, it's just that medical science has progressed since the 100 years of the spanish flu, so now we know better how to prevent and counteract it.

So I disagree with the argument that "well, people in the US should've just been healthier and exercised more." in regards to Covid (but I do agree people in the US should try to be more healthy and exercise more in general)

jeff37923

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2022, 05:11:55 PM »


I know that this is conspiracy theory territory, but with the Biden administration I have to wonder.....
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Zelen

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2022, 07:19:22 PM »
Average age of death for Covid mortality is still like 85. It can't even kill off the zombie everyone agrees is pretending to be president.

Reckall

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2022, 07:28:33 AM »
Average age of death for Covid mortality is still like 85. It can't even kill off the zombie everyone agrees is pretending to be president.

Uhm...

"The average (mean) age of death for COVID-19 has been lower than that of flu and pneumonia throughout the pandemic. In summer 2021, the mean age of death fell to 73 years, but has been rising again since the majority of the population have been fully vaccinated to 83 years in March 2022."



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blackstone

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2022, 03:15:51 PM »
Average age of death for Covid mortality is still like 85. It can't even kill off the zombie everyone agrees is pretending to be president.

Uhm...

"The average (mean) age of death for COVID-19 has been lower than that of flu and pneumonia throughout the pandemic. In summer 2021, the mean age of death fell to 73 years, but has been rising again since the majority of the population have been fully vaccinated to 83 years in March 2022."

True. But it ignores the fact that Joe is a zombie.

thornad

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2022, 10:51:49 PM »
Average age of death for Covid mortality is still like 85. It can't even kill off the zombie everyone agrees is pretending to be president.

Uhm...

"The average (mean) age of death for COVID-19 has been lower than that of flu and pneumonia throughout the pandemic. In summer 2021, the mean age of death fell to 73 years, but has been rising again since the majority of the population have been fully vaccinated to 83 years in March 2022."

Correlation is not causation. The strains have been getting less lethal over time, having nothing to do with the vaccine.

This is typical of viruses: they become more virulent and less lethal because lethality is not beneficial to its spread.
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Kyle Aaron

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2022, 12:04:45 AM »
the "other side" is non stop propaganda will outright lies wrapped into it, that guy at least was respectful enough to just exaggerate and soapbox and did not spew outright lies.  Either way, all articles and information sources are more and more becoming propaganda, where the people putting it out do not care to tell you what happened, they are telling you how to feel and react to what happened.
The real propaganda is not when they tell you something you are expected to believe, but when they tell you something you are not expected to believe. The very ridiculousness of DPRK propaganda, for example, is by design: it establishes state power that no-one dare question what they say, however ridiculous. If they said things that were just sort-of off, that would invite discussion and argument, which they certainly don't want.

It's when governments start spouting obviously absurd stuff on a regular basis that we ought to get worried.
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Eirikrautha

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2022, 10:45:31 AM »
the "other side" is non stop propaganda will outright lies wrapped into it, that guy at least was respectful enough to just exaggerate and soapbox and did not spew outright lies.  Either way, all articles and information sources are more and more becoming propaganda, where the people putting it out do not care to tell you what happened, they are telling you how to feel and react to what happened.
The real propaganda is not when they tell you something you are expected to believe, but when they tell you something you are not expected to believe. The very ridiculousness of DPRK propaganda, for example, is by design: it establishes state power that no-one dare question what they say, however ridiculous. If they said things that were just sort-of off, that would invite discussion and argument, which they certainly don't want.

It's when governments start spouting obviously absurd stuff on a regular basis that we ought to get worried.

Stuff like, "We're not in a recession, inflation isn't a problem, we have a pandemic of the unvaccinated, vaccines will protect you from catching Covid"?  Should I be worried?

HappyDaze

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2022, 12:38:05 PM »
the "other side" is non stop propaganda will outright lies wrapped into it, that guy at least was respectful enough to just exaggerate and soapbox and did not spew outright lies.  Either way, all articles and information sources are more and more becoming propaganda, where the people putting it out do not care to tell you what happened, they are telling you how to feel and react to what happened.
The real propaganda is not when they tell you something you are expected to believe, but when they tell you something you are not expected to believe. The very ridiculousness of DPRK propaganda, for example, is by design: it establishes state power that no-one dare question what they say, however ridiculous. If they said things that were just sort-of off, that would invite discussion and argument, which they certainly don't want.

It's when governments start spouting obviously absurd stuff on a regular basis that we ought to get worried.

Stuff like, "We're not in a recession, inflation isn't a problem, we have a pandemic of the unvaccinated, vaccines will protect you from catching Covid"?  Should I be worried?
And for absolute absurdity, don't forget "Trump didn't lose the election;  it was stolen."

Eirikrautha

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2022, 05:59:03 PM »
the "other side" is non stop propaganda will outright lies wrapped into it, that guy at least was respectful enough to just exaggerate and soapbox and did not spew outright lies.  Either way, all articles and information sources are more and more becoming propaganda, where the people putting it out do not care to tell you what happened, they are telling you how to feel and react to what happened.
The real propaganda is not when they tell you something you are expected to believe, but when they tell you something you are not expected to believe. The very ridiculousness of DPRK propaganda, for example, is by design: it establishes state power that no-one dare question what they say, however ridiculous. If they said things that were just sort-of off, that would invite discussion and argument, which they certainly don't want.

It's when governments start spouting obviously absurd stuff on a regular basis that we ought to get worried.

Stuff like, "We're not in a recession, inflation isn't a problem, we have a pandemic of the unvaccinated, vaccines will protect you from catching Covid"?  Should I be worried?
And for absolute absurdity, don't forget "Trump didn't lose the election;  it was stolen."
Exactly which one of my statements was incorrectly labeled as wrong?

Kyle Aaron

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Re: The Lockdowns Unearthed American Cultural Rot
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2022, 11:19:16 PM »
Stuff like, "We're not in a recession, inflation isn't a problem, we have a pandemic of the unvaccinated, vaccines will protect you from catching Covid"?  Should I be worried?
Not that much, because people openly question and mock them.
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