The Hobby Shop Dungeon Disaster

[Merrill]

Going to put this here as it is "sensitive"

Over four years ago, Ernie Gygax and Benoist Poire launched a kickstarter for the "Hobby Shop Dungeon: Marmoreal Tomb" D&D module. Delivery of content would start September 2015, with the main product being completed in March 2016.

An incredible $129,109 was raised for this thing.

It is now over two years late, and I recently heard some disturbing rumors about it

1. Ernie Gygax purchased a nice home in Wisconsin early last year. He has no steady income or job, and multiple gofundme campaigns have been done for him just to keep him afloat. One wonders where the money came to purchase this property? A couple people told me he used the funds from the Kickstarter for it by claiming business income for 2016 (which then qualified him for a mortgage to cover the rest).

2. The money from the Kickstarter is gone. Ernie is in poor health (heart failure), and Benoist is now on the hook to deliver a product. It doesn't take 3 years to write a dungeon module, even one with fancy maps. Not for otherwise unemployed people.

People on the Kickstarter message board are like WTF? Where is the product? Benoist gives periodic updates saying "we are still in the writing phase". He's been doing that for two years.

This would be a serious cluster if true. I hope it isn't.

[RPGPundit]

Hey everyone, remember when people tried to tear me a new one for predicting this? Remember when they said I was a big meanie for criticizing Benoist for dragging out Ernie as a "token Gygax" for him to wave around to use  name recognition for public attention that he otherwise didn't deserve?

Remember that?

Fuck all of you. I was right yet again.

[Ulairi]

Going to put this here as it is "sensitive"

Over four years ago, Ernie Gygax and Benoist Poire launched a kickstarter for the "Hobby Shop Dungeon: Marmoreal Tomb" D&D module. Delivery of content would start September 2015, with the main product being completed in March 2016.

An incredible $129,109 was raised for this thing.

It is now over two years late, and I recently heard some disturbing rumors about it

1. Ernie Gygax purchased a nice home in Wisconsin early last year. He has no steady income or job, and multiple gofundme campaigns have been done for him just to keep him afloat. One wonders where the money came to purchase this property? A couple people told me he used the funds from the Kickstarter for it by claiming business income for 2016 (which then qualified him for a mortgage to cover the rest).

2. The money from the Kickstarter is gone. Ernie is in poor health (heart failure), and Benoist is now on the hook to deliver a product. It doesn't take 3 years to write a dungeon module, even one with fancy maps. Not for otherwise unemployed people.

People on the Kickstarter message board are like WTF? Where is the product? Benoist gives periodic updates saying "we are still in the writing phase". He's been doing that for two years.

This would be a serious cluster if true. I hope it isn't.

The people that told you that he used the funds from the KS as enough income to get a mortgage in Lake Geneva, WI, especially a "nice home" are either lying to you or stupid. That isn't how income verification works for getting a mortgage. Haven't any of you ever applied for a mortgage?


Now as the accountant here, the monies from KS are revenue. I backed this for $150. I don't think I'll ever see it. Between this, RTT, and Kenzer & Company, I'm done with Kickstarter.

I don't think the hobby shop dungeon is ever coming out.

[RPGPundit]

There's a reason why I've never ever done a kickstarter myself.

If I ever did, I would insist on the main book being completely ready BEFORE we even start the kickstarter. Not just my part (the writing), either: I would need to see a finished PDF copy with all the layout and illustration and everything, and only THEN would we START the KS.

[Gronan of Simmerya]

The people that told you that he used the funds from the KS as enough income to get a mortgage in Lake Geneva, WI, especially a "nice home" are either lying to you or stupid. That isn't how income verification works for getting a mortgage. Haven't any of you ever applied for a mortgage?

Odds are good they are both lying AND stupid, and vicious to boot.

As far as your last two sentences, it's not about truth, it's about shit-slinging.

[Bedrockbrendan]

I don't know any inside financial details on the project. But I can say Benoist has been doing more than giving periodic updates. He's been banging out maps and sharing his progress. There is definite content being made.

[ThatChrisGuy]

I never back a Kickstarter without thinking beforehand I could lose whatever money I put in and get nada.  This one seems like a bust, we'll see if anything ever comes out of it but at this point I doubt it.

[Benoist]

Going to put this here as it is "sensitive"

Over four years ago, Ernie Gygax and Benoist Poire launched a kickstarter for the "Hobby Shop Dungeon: Marmoreal Tomb" D&D module. Delivery of content would start September 2015, with the main product being completed in March 2016.

An incredible $129,109 was raised for this thing.

It is now over two years late, and I recently heard some disturbing rumors about it

1. Ernie Gygax purchased a nice home in Wisconsin early last year. He has no steady income or job, and multiple gofundme campaigns have been done for him just to keep him afloat. One wonders where the money came to purchase this property? A couple people told me he used the funds from the Kickstarter for it by claiming business income for 2016 (which then qualified him for a mortgage to cover the rest).

2. The money from the Kickstarter is gone. Ernie is in poor health (heart failure), and Benoist is now on the hook to deliver a product. It doesn't take 3 years to write a dungeon module, even one with fancy maps. Not for otherwise unemployed people.

People on the Kickstarter message board are like WTF? Where is the product? Benoist gives periodic updates saying "we are still in the writing phase". He's been doing that for two years.

This would be a serious cluster if true. I hope it isn't.

Hi there Silas.

Yes we are two years late and the writing phase is taking us way more time than anticipated. I was not forseeing the complication that would come from all the extra content unlocked and how that would complicate things exponentially. We are making our way through it and yes, the Marmoreal Tomb will be completed and delivered.

Now regarding the specific rumors you heard, they are both categorically false.

(1) Ernie didn't use any funds from the KS to get the house. It belonged to his cousin Steve Davis who passed in October 2014 in the first place. I'm forgetting the exact details of the purchase (just checked, Ernie raised the funds from his savings and collector items sold via Collector’s Trove and Gary Con, all prior to the KS: the posts are still there on FB), but no, that had nothing to do with the moneys from the Kickstarter.

(2) We still have a large chunk of the funds raised and they are currently stored on an account earning a little interest over time. We actually got back some of the money we gave the IRS for taxes so no, the money isn't gone at all and ready to serve.

I am indeed giving periodic updates as to our progress and I'm here whenever people want to ask questions or talk about the project.

Last thing. I have not been saying "we are in the writing phase for two years", but since October. For the year and a half prior to that I was working out all the moving parts of the project up to this point. It is taking some time because this is not a run of the mill module. It has over 30 moving parts to begin with, connects with the Hobby Shop Dungeon and the world at large, presents a primer of said world along with all the components to run a sandbox for years. We're taking the time it takes to make it right, as we have said we would from the very beginning of the project.

Now there are a bunch of events and complications we could have never seen coming, like Ernie ending up at the hospital, me frontloading all the map work during that period as a result, those kinds of things, but the main element here is that the product ought to be the best it can be.

Once I'm done with the main module I'll make a general official update on the KS.

One last time I'll repeat, neither of the rumors you cite are true. I hope this puts these rumors to rest now.

[Benoist]

I don't think the hobby shop dungeon is ever coming out.

I'm sorry you've been burned with multiple KS's Ulairi, and I apologize for our lateness.

You have my promise we will deliver on the Tomb. And the HSD after that.

[Gronan of Simmerya]

There's a reason why I've never ever done a kickstarter myself.

If I ever did, I would insist on the main book being completely ready BEFORE we even start the kickstarter. Not just my part (the writing), either: I would need to see a finished PDF copy with all the layout and illustration and everything, and only THEN would we START the KS.

Tavis Allston of Autarch gave me that advice too.  It's good advice.

I believe in Ben and Ernie, so I expect I'll get my stuff.  Eventually.

I also never pledge more than I can afford to kiss goodbye.

And also, fuck stretch goals.  Really and truly, fuck stretch goals.  They seem to have sunk more Kickstarters than everything else.

Now, Kobolds Ate My Baby was revising an existing product, and their stretch goals all came AFTER they delivered the main goodies.

But seriously, fuck stretch goals.

[ThatChrisGuy]

Tavis Allston of Autarch gave me that advice too.  It's good advice.

I believe in Ben and Ernie, so I expect I'll get my stuff.  Eventually.

I also never pledge more than I can afford to kiss goodbye.

And also, fuck stretch goals.  Really and truly, fuck stretch goals.  They seem to have sunk more Kickstarters than everything else.

Now, Kobolds Ate My Baby was revising an existing product, and their stretch goals all came AFTER they delivered the main goodies.

But seriously, fuck stretch goals.

The only way I've seen stretch goals work is when they've been planned and budgeted for beforehand.  Just throwing extra shit in is a dumb, dumb, dumb idea.

[jhkim]

I think it was messed up to post rumors here without specifically inviting Benoist and Ernie to respond.

That said, I think two years late is unacceptable, and this example is one more reason why I almost never fund Kickstarters. The only exceptions is where the creators have a proven track record of delivering exactly that product (such as Big Bad Con that has been running for several years), or I personally know the creators and am happy to give them money regardless.

[Ras Algethi]

I'll say the same thing I said in the other KS thread:

It's always best to assume fraud and maleficence in the absence of any evidence! :rolleyes:

[Ulairi]

I'm sorry you've been burned with multiple KS's Ulairi, and I apologize for our lateness.

You have my promise we will deliver on the Tomb. And the HSD after that.

I really hope it does! I'm excited for it and love the maps you've shown on G+...

Just I've had the worst luck with things I've backed.

[Ulairi]

I think it was messed up to post rumors here without specifically inviting Benoist and Ernie to respond.

That said, I think two years late is unacceptable, and this example is one more reason why I almost never fund Kickstarters. The only exceptions is where the creators have a proven track record of delivering exactly that product (such as Big Bad Con that has been running for several years), or I personally know the creators and am happy to give them money regardless.

I've met Earnie at GaryCon a few times and I really liked the stuff they had in Gygax magazine. I was willing to back to support a local game developer and because Ben makes great maps.

I just don't think I'm cut out for Kickstarter.


And to the rumors only morons can believe it. Firstly, they don't understand the mortgage process, secondly, we have no evidence of anything, and the fact Ernie got a "nice house" could have to do with a lot of things.