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Author Topic: The alt right utilizes propaganda techniques, and btw it's happening on this forum  (Read 4473 times)

jeff37923

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As to the rioters and protesters themselves, I keep reading and hearing how most of the instigators (that -0.01%) are being bused in from other places. Who is coordinating the transportation? Who is paying for the transportation?

I don't want to go all conspiracy theory, but this just seems way too organized.

Ratman_tf

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Quote from: jeff37923;1146924
As to the rioters and protesters themselves, I keep reading and hearing how most of the instigators (that -0.01%) are being bused in from other places. Who is coordinating the transportation? Who is paying for the transportation?

I don't want to go all conspiracy theory, but this just seems way too organized.

I don't know for certain, but I suspect they organize themselves over social media and email. I think the Democrat party and elected "progressives" have a tiger by the tail. Very similar to George Bridges of Evergreen State College fame. They think they can ride the social justice wave to votes and power, but if they let go of the tiger's tail, they get eaten, so to speak.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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KingCheops

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Nothing's going to happen.  The police are still in place and the DemonKKKrats are starting to wake up that no one likes this shit.  They only way any pushback would come is if there were actually no police.  Everyone who hates this respects law and order and are already scared to death of losing their house, wife, children, job and aren't going to risk that to fight some transgender unicorn slam poet from Portland.

Samsquantch

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Greetings!

I don't have some "imaginary" vision of America. I know it has existed, and remains to this day. However, America is under attack and being undermined by people that hate America, by Marxists and Globalists. I don't think we as Americans should kneel to them. I don't think Americans should appease the traitors in our midst, those that are out in the streets killing innocent people, attacking, burning and looting. Americans everywhere need to stand against the Marxists seeking to overthrow our nation.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK



Well said.

Spinachcat

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America's unwillingness to take on the rioters and their supporters is why this country is lost.
 History shows us the "civilized" lose to the mobs and when its far too late, flail and cry when the chains of communism are strapped upon them.

Even if Trump wins, he's just a speedbump in the road. Trump (nor any president) cannot drain the marxist poison from our schools, media and disintegrating culture. We've lost two generations to SJW idiocy and they will lead the rest of us into collapse.
Communism thrives during depressions, and Harris/Biden have such nonsense economic policy (especially combined with the CoronaHoax) that the 2020s will look like the 1930s in no time.

And the mob won't stop when they get Harris/Biden. They know the DNC will bow and concede over and over again. The next AOC and next Omar will be even more radical. 

I'd like to believe there's enough American spirit left to deliver a hundred Sarajevos and revolt against these scum, but Republicans have proven they just retreat and seethe, maybe take out their aggression at the gun range, but for all intents and purposes, they will just kneel.
Maybe there will be balkanization during a Depression, but the bulk of patriots are older and as I've said before, the communists just need to wait us out.

Spinachcat

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Everyone who hates this respects law and order and are already scared to death of losing their house, wife, children, job and aren't going to risk that to fight some transgender unicorn slam poet from Portland.

And that's EXACTLY how America falls.

The Founding Fathers could have sat back, fat and happy, on their plantations being rich men in a new land. Sure, they had to pay high taxes and have no representation in Parliament, but who wants to fight a revolution when you can just take a knee?


Samsquantch

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Quote from: jeff37923;1144366
Math. Can't forget that math is racist.

That's the saddest part, at least to me.

Math is as impersonal as it gets. Numbers don't give a shit about your race. But they're so desperate to derange everything as 'white supremacy' they'll wind up making themselves educationally backwards if not illiterate.


Shades of Pol Pot, no?

Delete_me

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Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146650
You mean how the coroner just stated Floyd died from all the garbage he'd shot up, including enough fentanyl to kill a man?
But the narrative is bigger than any facts, and the riots when Chavuin gets off are very likely to make what we've seen so far look like a birthday party.
Yeah, the narrative is bigger than the facts here. Specifically, the narrative that fentanyl killed George Floyd. Since people, once again, seem to be unable to distinguish narrative from fact:


It's a fact that Floyd had some level of fentanyl in system.
It's a fact that lower levels than Floyd's have been ruled the cause of death (meaning at least 1 case exists).
It's a fact that Floyd had a "heavy heart" -- a specific medical condition.
It's a fact that those conditions made Floyd's death more likely.

It's a narrative that those caused his death.

It's a fact that the medical coroner said the cause of death was being fucking choked.

It's a fact that the District Attorney's literal job is to present a narrative that best defends the officer in question here.
It's a fact that the standard of care an officer usually has to show is attenuated to the individual.
Consider the fentanyl claim very carefully. Note how the defense attorney phrases it: 11 ml  of fentanyl in his system when 3 is known to kill. Is known to kill. Not is likely to kill. Not will probably kill. Not even may kill. It's is known to kill. That's deliberately chosen to be true, and meaningless. That means at least 1 person has died from that level. And that person? Probably had underlying conditions much worse than Floyd's.

There is a narrative here, but it's not what you think it is. It's the story of a really good defense lawyer (that is... a form of propaganda).
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 09:42:36 PM by Tanin Wulf »

Pat

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Quote from: Ghostmaker;1146650
You mean how the coroner just stated Floyd died from all the garbage he'd shot up, including enough fentanyl to kill a man?
But the narrative is bigger than any facts, and the riots when Chavuin gets off are very likely to make what we've seen so far look like a birthday party.
Yeah, the narrative is bigger than the facts here. Specifically, the narrative that fentanyl killed George Floyd. Since people, once again, seem to be unable to distinguish narrative from fact:


It's a fact that Floyd had some level of fentanyl in system.
It's a fact that lower levels than Floyd's have been ruled the cause of death (meaning at least 1 case exists).
It's a fact that Floyd had a "heavy heart" -- a specific medical condition.
It's a fact that those conditions made Floyd's death more likely.

It's a narrative that those caused his death.

It's a fact that the medical coroner said the cause of death was being fucking choked.

It's a fact that the District Attorney's literal job is to present a narrative that best defends the officer in question here.
It's a fact that the standard of care an officer usually has to show is attenuated to the individual.
Consider the fentanyl claim very carefully. Note how the defense attorney phrases it: 11 ml  of fentanyl in his system when 3 is known to kill. Is known to kill. Not is likely to kill. Not will probably kill. Not even may kill. It's is known to kill. That's deliberately chosen to be true, and meaningless. That means at least 1 person has died from that level. And that person? Probably had underlying conditions much worse than Floyd's.

There is a narrative here, but it's not what you think it is. It's the story of a really good defense lawyer.
I haven't been following this very closely, but the best analysis I've seen is this article:
https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911
Which disagrees with the points you're making.

Quote from: Medium article
The parallel to our current case does not end here. An official autopsy declared cause of death “sudden respiratory arrest following physical struggling restraint due to cocaine-induced excited delirium.” The legal team hired Dr. Michael Baden, who testified that Lewis died from “asphyxia caused by neck compression.” Baden is the same medical examiner who was hired by the George Floyd family, and made a similar finding. Baden is also the same medical examiner who was hired for Eric Garner, and declared death by “compression of the neck”. Baden is also the same medical examiner who was hired by the Brown family to examine Michael Brown, and Baden found that Brown died while surrendering, an assertion totally disproven by a DoJ investigation spearheaded by AG Eric Holder under Obama. Suffice it to say, Michael Baden has a very specific interest, and a very tenuous track record. The Court will be aware of this when weighing the autopsies.

Quote from: Medium article
This level of fentanyl is dangerous. One review of fentanyl overdoses found a median amount of ng/mL in an overdose to be approximately 10 ng/mL:

Quote
    Despite the ubiquitous presence of multiple drugs in these decedents, the effects of fentanyl were evidently so strong that there were no statistical differences in the fentanyl level (mean and standard deviation) with or without the presence of these co-intoxicants. The range of fentanyl levels was wide, from 0.75 to 113.00 ng/mL, with an average of 9.96 ng/mL.

Compare this information to an article published in Frontiers of Physiology detailing medical findings in ExDS deaths:

Quote
    Many patients with excited delirium also have significant cardiovascular and psychiatric diseases. Autopsies often reveal severe atherosclerosis, cardiomyopathy and diabetes. Cardiomyopathy results from chronic cocaine and methamphetamine abuse. Atherosclerosis and diabetes can also be the result of smoking, obesity and a lack of overall health care. The combination of the metabolic arrest with severe cardiovascular disease makes a successful resuscitation highly unlikely.
The two articles sub-quoted above:
https://ndews.umd.edu/sites/ndews.umd.edu/files/ndews-hotspot-unintentional-fentanyl-overdoses-in-new-hampshire-final-09-11-17.pdf
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5061757/

Note I'm not debating anything, I don't really care much about this topic. I'm just providing an article that seems quite thorough.

Delete_me

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I haven't been following this very closely, but the best analysis I've seen is this article:
https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911
Which disagrees with the points you're making.
It does, but it does so badly: read the 2 articles I cited and read Medium's article very closely. Both of those articles roundly destroy Medium's take on it. The second article I cited, especially, goes over each of those 6 points and explains why they are not evidence for what Medium seems to think they are (but how, to the layperson, myself included, it would look that way). (Plus, Medium's 6th point is exactly the opposite of what the coroner's report said; like... 100%.)

Huh... actually, that 6th point alone is reason to question the entire article. In their in-depth analysis, they don't use the coroner's report at all. They use statistical averages from a single study of the weight of a single-knee and double knee restraint on the body. The coroner's report actually explains why the force was sufficient based on the trauma found. (That is, the statistical data here does not help in any way, shape, or form, get to the truth of what happened in THIS incident.)

And this part:

Quote from: Medium article
This level of fentanyl is dangerous. One review of fentanyl overdoses found a median amount of ng/mL in an overdose to be approximately 10 ng/mL:

Quote
    Despite the ubiquitous presence of multiple drugs in these decedents, the effects of fentanyl were evidently so strong that there were no statistical differences in the fentanyl level (mean and standard deviation) with or without the presence of these co-intoxicants. The range of fentanyl levels was wide, from 0.75 to 113.00 ng/mL, with an average of 9.96 ng/mL.

Compare this information to an article published in Frontiers of Physiology detailing medical findings in ExDS deaths:

Quote
    Many patients with excited delirium also have significant cardiovascular and psychiatric diseases. Autopsies often reveal severe atherosclerosis, cardiomyopathy and diabetes. Cardiomyopathy results from chronic cocaine and methamphetamine abuse. Atherosclerosis and diabetes can also be the result of smoking, obesity and a lack of overall health care. The combination of the metabolic arrest with severe cardiovascular disease makes a successful resuscitation highly unlikely.
Doesn't actually address what the defense lawyer is doing. Nor does it clearly establish this was the cause of death, which is the issue in question. The second article I cited also laid out clearly how even if this is the case, that actually is just more evidence that the standard of care should have been HIGHER in this case (meaning even more reason not to choke), not lower.

Quote
Note I'm not debating anything, I don't really care much about this topic. I'm just providing an article that seems quite thorough.
I appreciate the extra perspectives. I always welcome more data and input.  :)

Samsquantch

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I have watched the political scene in the USA for decades because what happens there inevitably comes north into my country. I hated W and the neocons because they were so obviously corrupt. At the time my country had Jean Chretien as PM, from the liberal party. He was corrupt too and had scandal after scandal but he kept us out of invading Iraq which I agreed with because it was an illegal war. We joined the US in Afghanistan because the evidence at the time supported Al Queda as the ones responsible. Then came Obama and the promise of change. We all know how that turned out and my country flipped to a conservative government under Harper and he was just as corrupt as Chretien and sold us out to the Chinese as often as he could.


I watched the run up to 2016 very closely because Clinton was and always has been dirty as hell going back to Watergate and earlier. When I saw Trump running for the GOP I was sure he was working with Clinton because they had ben friends in the 80s and 90s and he donated to Bill many times... He had to be Trojan horse for sure... But then he got support and won the candidacy and things got interesting... I thought for sure he'd run a poor campaign and hand the white house to Hillary but he didn't. He went after her tooth and nail the media turned on him with coordination and a determination the likes of which I have never seen... This raised a ton of alarm bells for me because never had the media assembled like that even against W. There were the standard attacks and digs alright but not the outright lies and attacks and defamation that Trump suffered and still does. The media refused to report on anything positive he did and falsified information to use against him. Things that Obama did and said and were wildly supported were now forgotten and evil now that Trump took the same positions or continued the policies Obama had. Now those same positions and policies were evil and racist despite being enacted under Obama. And everyone ate it up like God's own truth..


Something was up for sure. The resistance he's had at every turn and by nefarious methods is a huge red flag that the establishment did not want this non-career politician in the oval office at all. Two scoops of ice cream became a weeks long news item..


Never before has a president set foot in North Korea let alone brokered a peace deal, and now two historic peace deals in the middle east... And he still gets shit on for it. As a soldier (retired) I have never seen a US president not start a war or invasion in my lifetime and I am astounded he's not been lauded as a peacekeeper. No soldier yearns for war because they know what it means to take lives and see their friends die around them. But the media demands war with Iran or NK, and takes the opposite stance to whatever he takes and the democrats do too. And they expect us to be so stupid and frail of memory to not remember or see through them when they lie to our faces. Never before have I seen such corruption and 2020 is the culmination of that. We see it everywhere. Riots, looting, assassinations in the street and open season on people supporting the duly elected president. To the world the USA represents freedom and democracy and the right to exercise your political freedom. It's supposed to be the model for the world, a shining example of how things should be... But look now. Look how people are afraid to speak common sense or support the president or show pride in their own country because they will be beaten or lose their jobs and be cancelled. You're called racist and a white supremacist (even if your black or brown) for waving your own flag by a mobs of Marxist anarchists and useful idiots blinded by propaganda and ideologies so twisted and baseless that they can't even see through it.


I look at the USA and I weep because if Trump can't stop it and the election is stolen (honestly, voter id works for many countries including Canada with none of the horrors the Dems claim accompany it) you will face war in the streets. They're already laying the ground work with claims that the election will only go for biden and Trump won't concede. And when that war comes to the USA it will come to Canada as well.


Anyone with even a bit of history knowledge or military training beyond the basics can see what's happening and can see through the lies... It boggles my mind how the majority of people can't see through this and just blindly follow what the media tells them. If anything, the riots have opened the eyes of many, many, people to just what is going on. The lies aren't working as well as they had before. The democrat mayors and governors and DA's that are allowing the riots to continue and in some cases actively supporting and encouraging them like Harris is doing and Ted Wheeler too are showing people what their true colours are and just how badly the system has been infiltrated and compromised. Anyone that doesn't share their far left ideologies or just speaks the truth is labelled at-right (whatever that is since the definition seems very fluid) and a racist or x-phobe. But it's not working for them as much. People are waking up to the madness.
The Ministry of Truth is becoming transparent and we see them.


I just hope that things don't get completely out of hand because civil wars are by far the nastiest, dirtiest, most bloodthirsty wars there are and all the people on the left calling for war and revolution will be in for a very rude awakening once the shooting starts. We already see how they crumble and cry when someone punches them back after being assaulted for a different opinion. If people stand up for what's right and true the left won't win. They don't have the stomach to do what it takes and those of us that do and are well aware of what the cost will be and that's why we aren't taking reciprocal action now. We want law and order. The right won't start the battles. But we will end them.


Anyhow, rant over. Good luck brothers and sisters.

Spinachcat

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The Fentanyl Floyd case will get interesting with jury selection. How are you going to find 12 neutral people in that city? And how soon until a juror jumps on social media and starts blabbing? Or gets outed for being a BLM clown? Or gets threatened to be cancelled if they don't rule as BLM demands?


The problem with "the knee killed him" story is how many times police around the country have used the same technique and the criminal survived...so when it comes to why George Kirby didn't survive, the focus will be on the moron's bloodstream being loaded with drugs.


Also, the full footage is going to be rough on the prosecution. Saint George was babbling about "I can't breathe" while he was standing up and nobody was touching him...


I'm interested in learning about the real relationship between the cop and the perp, considering they worked at the same nightclub for years. Makes me wonder about their prior history.

Ghostmaker

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Yeah, the narrative is bigger than the facts here. Specifically, the narrative that fentanyl killed George Floyd. Since people, once again, seem to be unable to distinguish narrative from fact:


It's a fact that Floyd had some level of fentanyl in system.
It's a fact that lower levels than Floyd's have been ruled the cause of death (meaning at least 1 case exists).
It's a fact that Floyd had a "heavy heart" -- a specific medical condition.
It's a fact that those conditions made Floyd's death more likely.

It's a narrative that those caused his death.

It's a fact that the medical coroner said the cause of death was being fucking choked.

It's a fact that the District Attorney's literal job is to present a narrative that best defends the officer in question here.
It's a fact that the standard of care an officer usually has to show is attenuated to the individual.
Consider the fentanyl claim very carefully. Note how the defense attorney phrases it: 11 ml  of fentanyl in his system when 3 is known to kill. Is known to kill. Not is likely to kill. Not will probably kill. Not even may kill. It's is known to kill. That's deliberately chosen to be true, and meaningless. That means at least 1 person has died from that level. And that person? Probably had underlying conditions much worse than Floyd's.

There is a narrative here, but it's not what you think it is. It's the story of a really good defense lawyer (that is... a form of propaganda).
Except Chauvin didn't have him in a chokehold. There's questions been raised about Floyd's activity prior to being knee-pinned (including saying 'I can't breathe' well before that).


Was he in medical distress? Probably.
Should Chauvin have stopped posing for the cameras and given first aid & summoned an ambulance? Assuredly.


Is Chauvin guilty of murder? Good luck with that one. One of the big problems with pinning murder charges on some of these cops is how severe the health issues are with some of the dead. Eric Garner, for example, was likely to drop dead if he tried to run a half block; any kind of restraint could've killed him.


But I'll tell you this much:


It really pisses me off to watch a five year old boy get shot in the head for no apparent reason at all, be buried quietly without fanfare, while a drug-addled thug with a history of violence including threatening a pregnant woman with a gun -- he gets a fucking ROYAL funeral.


So if you're looking for additional help for your lynching party, I suggest you jog the fuck on.

trechriron

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So, to summarize;


1. Random poster hits up the political forum on theRPGsite and posts inflammatory warning that we are all alt-right propagandists using known techniques to steer conversations to specific perceptions.
2. Que up a list of expected "commie bastard" responses calling out the troll to "provide evidence".
3. Que up pages of conspiracy theories (my favorite thus far is how Hillary Clinton was involved in Watergate?) about bused in agitators, a long defense of Kyle Rittenhouse, videos and speeches about war, and other bedrock alt-right propaganda talking points, memes, and responses. BTW - I love this shit. You can't conjure up better fiction if you hit an 8-ball and passed into a coma on your keyboard.
4. Original poster sits back waiting for theRPGsite regulars to realize they already provided all the evidence needed in the thread, which was inevitable when the original troll made the post...


Remember that cartoon about the bear and the hunter... The punchline being "you're not really here for the hunting are you?"


Yes. I'm laughing at you.  :o :-*
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Steven Mitchell

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Well, the thread decloaked a moron that I missed adding back my ignore list with the new format.  So at least it served one useful purpose.