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Author Topic: President Trump has Covid19  (Read 2667 times)

Shasarak

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #135 on: October 14, 2020, 11:01:40 PM »
My claim is that Trump never said to inject or drink bleach. Which his political opponents said he did.

You know, I bet that there are fine people on both sides of the bleach injecting debate.
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Spinachcat

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2020, 04:04:42 AM »
The US controls the interest rate on the debt, and then just prints money to pay that interest and creates a financial perpetual motion machine nobody wants to touch.

Does it really matter if every American owes $69k each or $690k each? I doubt the debt would have been paid off back when we owed $6900 each!

And since its never getting paid, and we'll just print money to pay the interest, does it matter if the debt is $25 trillion, $250 trillion or $25 quatloos?


spon

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2020, 05:50:26 AM »
The US controls the interest rate on the debt, and then just prints money to pay that interest and creates a financial perpetual motion machine nobody wants to touch.

Does it really matter if every American owes $69k each or $690k each? I doubt the debt would have been paid off back when we owed $6900 each!

And since its never getting paid, and we'll just print money to pay the interest, does it matter if the debt is $25 trillion, $250 trillion or $25 quatloos?

Only if the rest of the world decides that the dollar isn't the currency of choice any more. Once that happens, you can get hyper-inflation when the rest of the world considers dollars to be worthless. And printing endless streams of money is one way to get people to choose a different currency as their base ...

Pat

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2020, 07:32:01 AM »
Of the three numbers, it's closer to $250 trillion. That's a bit higher than the US fiscal gap, which is the real debt, because it includes future commitments. Governments toss people in jail for not putting what they've promised to pay on their balance sheets, but ignore it when it comes to themselves. And in that regard, the US is much worse off than other major economies.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 07:34:12 AM by Pat »

Brad

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #139 on: October 15, 2020, 10:10:13 AM »
Only if the rest of the world decides that the dollar isn't the currency of choice any more. Once that happens, you can get hyper-inflation when the rest of the world considers dollars to be worthless. And printing endless streams of money is one way to get people to choose a different currency as their base ...

Considering something like 80% of all the wealth in the world is in USD, I don't think that will ever happen. It would take a total collapse of the United States, but then everyone goes back to the stone age at that point. Even China doesn't want that to happen.

moonsweeper

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #140 on: October 15, 2020, 11:57:57 AM »
It is effectively a MAD scenario...
 
The only two currencies that can 'theoretically' replace the dollar are the Yuan or the Euro.
But neither of those areas can feed themselves, so they will be pretty hard pressed to weather the initial collapse
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KingCheops

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #141 on: October 15, 2020, 12:17:23 PM »
It is effectively a MAD scenario...
 
The only two currencies that can 'theoretically' replace the dollar are the Yuan or the Euro.
But neither of those areas can feed themselves, so they will be pretty hard pressed to weather the initial collapse

Chinese currency mostly only works because they can manipulate the exchange rates between Offshore and Onshore.  That scam doesn't work so hot when you're the world reserve currency.  I'm bearish on Europe despite my prediction of shooting wars between Euro members by 2020 not coming true (if only barely since we're so close to kinetic war between Greece and Turkey).

Call me a gold bug if you wish but the only way I see out of this is ditching fiat and going back to some sort of asset backed.  Doesn't have to be gold or silver but those are traditional.  It'd mean smaller growth but at least it's not pixie farts.

Pat

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #142 on: October 15, 2020, 02:34:27 PM »
Call me a gold bug if you wish but the only way I see out of this is ditching fiat and going back to some sort of asset backed.  Doesn't have to be gold or silver but those are traditional.  It'd mean smaller growth but at least it's not pixie farts.
There's nothing wrong with gold, there's a reason it's been the currency of choice for most of the history of the world.

But all we really need is something that would prevent the government from fiddling with the monetary supply. Because that's how governments tax people without their consent (no legislation needed), it's what has allowed the government to fund even more by borrowing obscene amounts at obscenely low interest rates, it's a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich and led to the stagnation of wages since the 1970s and the booming stock market over the same period, and it's also the cause of the boom and bust cycles.

A cryptocurrency would work just fine. Anything that makes it impossible for the government to print more buxs.

Hawkwing7423

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #143 on: October 15, 2020, 08:55:40 PM »
Only if the rest of the world decides that the dollar isn't the currency of choice any more. Once that happens, you can get hyper-inflation when the rest of the world considers dollars to be worthless. And printing endless streams of money is one way to get people to choose a different currency as their base ...
Totally agree, it will work until it doesn't work any longer. I read this book a few years ago which was one author's take on such a collapse. Extremely chilling.

https://www.amazon.com/Mandibles-Family-2029-2047-Lionel-Shriver/dp/006232828X

Shasarak

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #144 on: October 15, 2020, 10:20:02 PM »
It is effectively a MAD scenario...
 
The only two currencies that can 'theoretically' replace the dollar are the Yuan or the Euro.
But neither of those areas can feed themselves, so they will be pretty hard pressed to weather the initial collapse

I have heard Jim Rickards talking about IMF created SDRs (Special Drawing Rights) which could theoretically replace the USD.
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moonsweeper

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #145 on: October 15, 2020, 11:33:03 PM »
It is effectively a MAD scenario...
 
The only two currencies that can 'theoretically' replace the dollar are the Yuan or the Euro.
But neither of those areas can feed themselves, so they will be pretty hard pressed to weather the initial collapse

I have heard Jim Rickards talking about IMF created SDRs (Special Drawing Rights) which could theoretically replace the USD.

 
It is a nice theory, but the SDR is based on the economic 'basket' concept...It consists of the 3 currencies already mentioned plus the Yen and the Pound.  In order for it not to be 'poisoned' by the collapse, they would have to figure out a way to generate the SDR without the US Dollar.
 
On top of that, the currency has to look viable to people on the street.  To the majority of those, mentioning the IMF would get a 'Huh?' response.  The globalists will buy into it, but they have to keep the proles in line and force only gets you so far.
 
The initial collapse also becomes a big problem with the 3 day supply rule.  You have already seen the paper towel/toilet paper panic as well as the food panic earlier this year.
 
This is also why a CW2 kickoff in the US will be incredibly bad for the leftist authoritarians in the major urban areas.  It won't be a Sarajevo type situation because there isn't anything in the cities that we absolutely need for a couple of weeks.  You just cut the lines and let them kill each other over food. Truck drivers were already refusing to drive into rioting areas earlier this year.  The Nat. Guard doesn't have the manpower to do it.  Look at how many it took for Katrina relief and spread that idea across the entire continental US.

Infantry wins battles. Logistics wins wars.
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jhkim

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #146 on: October 19, 2020, 01:13:06 AM »
Replying to Steven Mitchell about the Electoral College - apologies for the long delay.

What I said was that the *good* and *intended* property of the Electoral College is that it guards against factionalism. It forces presidential candidates to have widespread geographic support, rather than concentrated support in just one region. I consider that to be a positive for the long-term stability of the country. By contrast, the Maine/Nebraska approach of split electors takes away this feature - if it were to be implemented by all the states - which it is unlikely to. So, I consider the Maine/Nebraska approach to make the system worse by removing it's most positive feature.

From my view, I don't think there is a simple or easy solution from our current status as a union. I think an improvement might be to expand the Senate, so the largest states have three Senate seats instead of two. For consistency, I might say if a state is more than 50% over the average state population, it should get a third seat.
I'm sure you do think that is a better solution.  It doesn't solve the issue you addressed in the first paragraph as well as the Maine/Nebraska approach does.  What it does do is conveniently lock in the rule of Democrats forever.  Not to mention create a nightmare for the census--as if there aren't already enough politics around that.

I feel like we're talking past each other here. As I said, I think the Maine/Nebraska approach makes factionalism *worse*. Look at it this way: Currently, the Democrats have no motivation to make blue states like California any more blue. Likewise, the Republicans have no motivation to make Texas more red. Instead, they concentrate on spreading to more moderate states.

If all states were to use the Maine/Nebraska approach, then there would be motivation for the parties to make states more extreme. That would lead to even more California-vs-Texas antipathy and hatred then we already have. People are already talking about civil war, and that trend would make the divide even worse.

Because of this, I feel the current status quo is better than the Maine/Nebraska approach. The elected President has always been within 1-2% of popular vote, which is a minor effect given reducing factionalism.


However, I notice you didn't respond about how other countries should use the Electoral College. As I said earlier, there is nothing in the Electoral College per se that favors rural voters - or any other group. It purely depends on the lines of division among the states. In another country, it's quite possible that the division of states could favor urban voters over rural - if that other country had more small urban states like Delaware and Connecticut. In such a country, urban voters would be even more dominant because of the Electoral College, would you still favor it as a system?

I feel like the Electoral College and the Senate is incomplete. Politically, there really needs to be some underlying philosophy about what is allowed to be a state and what doesn't - and what representation it gets. Instead, it's just at the mercy of individual acts of Congress.

Look, I'm fine with leaving things the way they are.  There should be a counter force to the concentrated interests, and every state by being a state having essentially +2 electoral votes past their rough population is as good a solution as any.  It worked for the founders when New York and Virginia dominating was the worry.  With a few blips over adding free/slave states in pairs to kick the can down the road, it's worked most of the time since. 

Again, the original stated worry by the proponents of removing the electoral college is that people in states dominated by one party have no effective say in the presidential election.
To be clear, I'm also fine with the status quo. Who are you saying expressed this "original stated worry"? Was it someone in this thread, or just that you've heard that argument somewhere else? I agree that I've heard it, but I think there is good reason not to buy into it because of the factionalism it encourages.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #147 on: October 19, 2020, 06:18:42 AM »
To be clear, I'm also fine with the status quo. Who are you saying expressed this "original stated worry"? Was it someone in this thread, or just that you've heard that argument somewhere else? I agree that I've heard it, but I think there is good reason not to buy into it because of the factionalism it encourages.

It is the nearly always the first "point" used every time someone start yammering about eliminating the electoral college--usually on some "reasoning" about people in certain states having a presidential vote that "doesn't count".  Scare quotes used deliberately in all three places.


Brad

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #148 on: October 19, 2020, 09:36:50 AM »
It is the nearly always the first "point" used every time someone start yammering about eliminating the electoral college--usually on some "reasoning" about people in certain states having a presidential vote that "doesn't count".  Scare quotes used deliberately in all three places.

I wonder if those same people complain about their votes not counting when the opposing representatives or senators are elected instead of the dudes they picked.