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Author Topic: The alt right utilizes propaganda techniques, and btw it's happening on this forum  (Read 4474 times)

SHARK

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Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146833
Then we're fucked. The solution for this guy is to get a shotgun and blast everyone who disagrees with him politically. Do it now while he has the element of surprise.

I really don't want that for America, and I'll fight, however hopeless it may be, for de-escalation.

Greetings!

I hope de-escalation can work, Ratman. I don't think that the Marxists however are interested in de-escalating anything. I believe law and order must be enforced, or we are going to see more fighting, more conflict, with more and more people killed. Good Americans can't just bow down to the BLM and Antifa mobs, my friend. When is enough enough? In many areas, increasingly, the police can't or won't intervene to save you. You are left facing the bloodthirsty mob on your own.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

HappyDaze

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Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146836
You fucking pussy. You gave up on rational discussion for infantile insults long before this. Don't pretend you care about it when you agree with something.


Even when I'm freely spewing shit, I aim much of the stream at those encouraging and glorifying violence. Face facts snookums, you agree with me on something. Enjoy that feeling.

Ratman_tf

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Quote from: HappyDaze;1146842
Even when I'm freely spewing shit, I aim much of the stream at those encouraging and glorifying violence. Face facts snookums, you agree with me on something. Enjoy that feeling.


I'm sure we agree on a lot of things. You just have no place to criticize from since you fell into your childish tantrum.
You defeated yourself when you admitted you were willingly descending into the shit in order to sling it at others.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 09:20:40 PM by Ratman_tf »
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Ratman_tf

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Quote from: SHARK;1146839
Greetings!

I hope de-escalation can work, Ratman. I don't think that the Marxists however are interested in de-escalating anything. I believe law and order must be enforced, or we are going to see more fighting, more conflict, with more and more people killed. Good Americans can't just bow down to the BLM and Antifa mobs, my friend. When is enough enough? In many areas, increasingly, the police can't or won't intervene to save you. You are left facing the bloodthirsty mob on your own.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I think people have a right to defend themselves. I think it's important to restore order to the areas being hit by riots. I also think the important work is being done by people who say no to the madness.



My line is the desire to seek out conflict. I don't think we're at the point where we should start gunning down Marxists simply for being Marxists. And goading it on makes me concerned.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 09:43:23 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Steven Mitchell

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We are way past that line already, only it has been almost entirely one-sided.  Normal people have been extremely reserved, all things considered.  It's not seeking out conflict to note that this can't last in the face of escalating provocation.  I'm shocked that we've made it this far without it blowing completely up.  

We are to the point where the guy on roof threatening to jump is leaning out, not holding anything, in the rain and the wind.  It's not encouraging him to jump to note that he's already past the point where he could fall any moment.

Ratman_tf

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Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1146850
We are way past that line already, only it has been almost entirely one-sided.  Normal people have been extremely reserved, all things considered.  It's not seeking out conflict to note that this can't last in the face of escalating provocation.  I'm shocked that we've made it this far without it blowing completely up.  

We are to the point where the guy on roof threatening to jump is leaning out, not holding anything, in the rain and the wind.  It's not encouraging him to jump to note that he's already past the point where he could fall any moment.

So do you think we should pre-emptivley strike at them? Organize a militia to attack BLM and Antifa gatherings?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 10:11:31 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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HappyDaze

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Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146845
I'm sure we agree on a lot of things. You just have no place to criticize from since you fell into your childish tantrum.
You defeated yourself when you admitted you were willingly descending into the shit in order to sling it at others.

Funny, I don't feel defeated and there's plenty of room here to criticize from...

Well, I guess we disagree again. Oh, well.

Steven Mitchell

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Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146852
So do you think we should pre-emptivley strike at them? Organize a militia to attack BLM and Antifa gatherings?

No.  I'm advocating no such thing.  It's a miracle that it hasn't happened already, and I'm grateful.  I'm also saying that "pre-emptive" is the wrong word for describing the situation as it has existed for some weeks now.  Despite not supporting any kind of vigilante actions against even the scum, if it were to happen it would be a retaliation after way too much provocation.  It would be, in some cases and some places, justified in the literal sense that there are people in those organizations that have it coming.  Nonetheless, I don't support those actions because I think they would be counter-productive.  

I wouldn't organize any such thing.  I wouldn't participate in any such thing.  I will not support it in any such way.  If someone ends up in a confrontation with one of those jackasses and kills him--and I end up on the jury--I'm a near guarantee vote for nullification--not least because I believe the press and officials on the ground are lying their asses of.  They've already been caught multiple times fabricating evidence.  

I don't know if I can be any more clear.  I'm not happy about any of this.  The same way I wouldn't be happy if someone broke into my house in the middle of the night and I had to kill him.  But sometimes you have to do what is necessary and just even if you'd rather not.

Ratman_tf

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Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1146856
No.  I'm advocating no such thing.  It's a miracle that it hasn't happened already, and I'm grateful.  I'm also saying that "pre-emptive" is the wrong word for describing the situation as it has existed for some weeks now.  Despite not supporting any kind of vigilante actions against even the scum, if it were to happen it would be a retaliation after way too much provocation.  It would be, in some cases and some places, justified in the literal sense that there are people in those organizations that have it coming.  Nonetheless, I don't support those actions because I think they would be counter-productive.  

I wouldn't organize any such thing.  I wouldn't participate in any such thing.  I will not support it in any such way.  If someone ends up in a confrontation with one of those jackasses and kills him--and I end up on the jury--I'm a near guarantee vote for nullification--not least because I believe the press and officials on the ground are lying their asses of.  They've already been caught multiple times fabricating evidence.  

I don't know if I can be any more clear.  I'm not happy about any of this.  The same way I wouldn't be happy if someone broke into my house in the middle of the night and I had to kill him.  But sometimes you have to do what is necessary and just even if you'd rather not.

That's fine, man. I wanted clarification, not to accuse you of anything.
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Brad

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Just make sure you use silver buckshot, gents. Cover your bases.

RandyB

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Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146859
That's fine, man. I wanted clarification, not to accuse you of anything.

Don't mistake prediction for prescription. Seeing what is coming is vastly different from desiring it.

Ghostmaker

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Quote from: Ratman_tf;1146833
Then we're fucked. The solution for this guy is to get a shotgun and blast everyone who disagrees with him politically. Do it now while he has the element of surprise.

I really don't want that for America, and I'll fight, however hopeless it may be, for de-escalation.


A hundred Sarajevos. That was the term I used to describe the results of civil war here in the U.S.

I'm not exactly dancing in the street here either, but there's a difference between 'I want this to happen' and 'I think this is happening'.

I've been wrong before. Maybe we'll get lucky and I'll be wrong again.

SHARK

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Greetings!

Indeed, I do hope that there is a way in which peace can be enforced. My original comment though was aimed more at the spectre of the Left launching an even more violent frenzy of riots after the election in which Trump wins.

Fuck that. I have zero patience for these rebels. If they escalate the rebellion, then they should be crushed utterly.

I do not expect to go looking for trouble from anyone--but I am certainly ready to stand against these rebels and defend my friends, neighbors, and community from them if they think they can march against America here where I live. I'll be damned if I'd stand by and let them murder, burn, and loot here. Ain't fucking happening.

In that, I say bring down the thunder.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Chris24601

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I think one thing to bear in mind though is that the actual nut jobs doing all the provocation are not actually that numerous; they just have a very sympathetic media and politicians backed by people with a very specific agenda amplifying the appearance of them.

Take Portland for example. Every report I've seen pegs the number of rioters in the low hundreds, maybe at their peak a thousand-ish. But the population of Portland is (or was anyway) 650 thousand. That means the trouble there is coming from somewhere between 0.05% and 0.15% of the population there (and not all of them are even locals).

These riots also just aren't happening outside of specific locales where complicit DAs, mayors and governors are in position to prevent the normal consequences for rioting. Early on we had an attempt at rioting in out city and the mayor shut it down cold with arrests and charges the moment it stopped being peaceful.

That means nationwide the violent extremists are an even smaller percentage... 0.01% or less.

I'd say nationwide it shakes out about like this;

-0.01% violent extremists and criminal opportunists (i.e. arson, violent attacks on others, looting/mugging).
-0.1% useful idiots (i.e. willing to chant and scream, but will scatter the moment there's any pushback).
-1% strong sympathizers (feel the violence is justified, but won't commit to it themselves).
-10% weak sympathizers (the ones who say the riots are "mostly peaceful").

If it comes to violence, only the violent extremist category would put up a meaniful fight. The VAST majority CAN actually be de-escalated just fine once the violent fringe has been dealt with (I would prefer via criminal charges and the rule of law) and the rest once again realize there are consequences for actions.

And that last part is the trick of it though; because on the opposite end with the patriots you're probably looking at slightly larger, but still in the same order of magnitude, numbers willing to fight if the Leftists carry 2020.

Essentially the Left wins or loses due to the overwhelming apathy of the middle who just want to live their lives. If President Trump carries the day there aren't enough violent extremists to overthrow him and the rest won't put their lives on the line to fight it... they'll just gripe on social media. If Biden/Harris/Pelosi win there won't be enough willing to fight to the death to overcome the violent Left backed by the power of government and everyone else will gripe about it on social media.

Ratman_tf

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Quote from: Chris24601;1146920
-0.01% violent extremists and criminal opportunists (i.e. arson, violent attacks on others, looting/mugging).
-0.1% useful idiots (i.e. willing to chant and scream, but will scatter the moment there's any pushback).
-1% strong sympathizers (feel the violence is justified, but won't commit to it themselves).
-10% weak sympathizers (the ones who say the riots are "mostly peaceful").

A good point, and another of my concerns. A protest can include rioters and vice versa. In the middle of an altercation, telling friend from foe and combatant from non-combatant in these circumstances can be tricky.
Part of the problem is there is so much "fog of war" surrounding everything.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung