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Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words

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Squidi:

--- Quote from: Ratman_tf on September 10, 2021, 09:31:05 PM ---Like the cave scene in Last Jedi
--- End quote ---
Haven't seen it...


--- Quote ---I'd argue these aren't strong characters. They're entitled brats.
--- End quote ---
Well, the writers are. Captain Marvel was directed by two people who had done some television episodes nobody saw, and written by them and someone else with one writing credit to their name. How the fuck did these nobodies become the writers and directors of a $160 MILLION dollar movie? It isn't because they have special effects experience or because anything they directed had good reviews or made money.

The third person, just credited as a writer on Captain Marvel, had her first job being hired to rewrite the script for Tomb Raider. She helped with Captain Marvel. Now she's listed on Untitled Star Trek Series, Silver Saber, Gotham City Sirens, the third Sherlock Holmes movie, a Dungeons and Dragons movie, and for some absurd reason M.A.S.K. (part of the shared GI Joe cinematic universe). She wasn't even born when M.A.S.K. was a thing! She was born in 1985! I'll bet she wasn't responsible for those cringey 80s jokes in Captain Marvel.

Where the hell are these people coming from? How are they getting these high profile gigs with no, or almost no, credits to their name?

They write entitled brats, because they ARE entitled brats. While I'm sure they think they worked hard to get to their position of privilege and power, you don't jump to the head of the line without talent unless Harvey Weinstein asks you to sit next to him on the couch.

Rafael:

--- Quote from: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 06:27:11 PM ---I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?

--- End quote ---

From what I understand, that's not quite true: Brooks wanted to move away from "Shannara" in 1993, the end of the "Heritage" series, and after the death of Lester del Rey. Then, Landover and Shannara were first optioned as TV shows, and the development of the Shannara video game (1995) prompted the creation of the (well-done) prequel "First King".

- But after that, with 2001 "Voyage" series, Brooks goes full corporate, intentionally turning his series towards more YA marketability. With that, most of his established readers start to faze out, and Brooks start to burn out. It's clear that he wants to end the series with "Straken" (2005): The ending you get there is probably even better than the very Saberhagen-inspired endgame we get in the "Fall of Shannara" series, fifteen years later. It's difficult to distinguish between the books after that, because very good ones alternate with very poor ones.

"Dark Legacy" is clearly not born from Brooks' mind alone, and written by corporate mandate to consolidate the MTV/"Shannara Chronicles" crowd; it has the distinction of being one of the worst fantasy series ever written by one of the "big name" authors. It's certainly not fan service, it's "we need another sequel, Terry". - If you want to make yourself suffer, this weekend, check out the books on Amazon; I dare you to make it even through the first, free chapter. Like, no hyperbole - I dare you.  :D

Thankfully, Brooks stops giving a crap after that, and returns to doing his own thing: His "Shannara" novels after that are still marred by bad and publisher-mandated decisionmaking, but at least they're not terrible. The Darkling Child is Brooks' best book of the 2010s, and if it wasn't framed by "Dark Legacy" (terrible) and "Fall" (almost as terrible), this would be one that people talked about.

Shasarak:

--- Quote from: Rafael on September 11, 2021, 03:03:32 AM ---
--- Quote from: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 06:27:11 PM ---I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?

--- End quote ---

From what I understand, that's not quite true: Brooks wanted to move away from "Shannara" in 1993, the end of the "Heritage" series, and after the death of Lester del Rey. Then, Landover and Shannara were first optioned as TV shows, and the development of the Shannara video game (1995) prompted the creation of the (well-done) prequel "First King".

- But after that, with 2001 "Voyage" series, Brooks goes full corporate, intentionally turning his series towards more YA marketability. With that, most of his established readers start to faze out, and Brooks start to burn out. It's clear that he wants to end the series with "Straken" (2005): The ending you get there is probably even better than the very Saberhagen-inspired endgame we get in the "Fall of Shannara" series, fifteen years later. It's difficult to distinguish between the books after that, because very good ones alternate with very poor ones.

"Dark Legacy" is clearly not born from Brooks' mind alone, and written by corporate mandate to consolidate the MTV/"Shannara Chronicles" crowd; it has the distinction of being one of the worst fantasy series ever written by one of the "big name" authors. It's certainly not fan service, it's "we need another sequel, Terry". - If you want to make yourself suffer, this weekend, check out the books on Amazon; I dare you to make it even through the first, free chapter. Like, no hyperbole - I dare you.  :D

Thankfully, Brooks stops giving a crap after that, and returns to doing his own thing: His "Shannara" novels after that are still marred by bad and publisher-mandated decisionmaking, but at least they're not terrible. The Darkling Child is Brooks' best book of the 2010s, and if it wasn't framed by "Dark Legacy" (terrible) and "Fall" (almost as terrible), this would be one that people talked about.

--- End quote ---

The Dark Legacy books did seem weak but it was the Defenders of Shannara that really finished the series for me.

Maybe he was suffering from the no editor syndrome that can happen when an author gets famous.  Not enough push back on bad plot and lack of script tightening.  Who knows.

Ratman_tf:

--- Quote from: Squidi on September 11, 2021, 12:37:53 AM ---Where the hell are these people coming from? How are they getting these high profile gigs with no, or almost no, credits to their name?

--- End quote ---

I suspect nepotism. Not that that would be unusual, but friends helping friends would mean clusters of SJW types helping each other means a specific type of people are getting into the industry and, well, here we are.

Rafael:

--- Quote from: Shasarak on September 12, 2021, 05:00:01 AM ---The Dark Legacy books did seem weak but it was the Defenders of Shannara that really finished the series for me.

Maybe he was suffering from the no editor syndrome that can happen when an author gets famous.  Not enough push back on bad plot and lack of script tightening.  Who knows.

--- End quote ---

The first "Defenders" was actually based on the (wisely) discarded outline for the original sequel to "Sword", IIRC. I didn't like it all too much, and the third act of the book was really poorly done. The second book, though, with Reyn Frosch, and other "street level" characters, I loved like I haven't loved any of the "Shannara" books since the nineties. - Not quite sure why, just struck a chord with me.

Brooks has actually addressed the editing situation as candidly as he perhaps can: Basically, he personally and understandably gravitates towards more adult themes - the serial killer Ohmsford we get in "Fall", the negative side of the radioactive poisoning that the "Four Lands" are still suffering from, PTSD like with Cogline, or the concept of a sword-wielding monster hunter รก la Witcher "The Druid's Blade".

...And more often than not, his publishers, who see "Shannara" as a primarily YA-oriented brand, and who insist on him including a couple of core elements in his books - like the "Harry Potter"-ization of the Druids in the Grianne novels, or the ersatz-Daenerys we got in "Fall" - flat out tell him that a certain idea can't be in the books. And so he discards it, and uses one of their suggestions instead.

This seems to have gotten only marginally better after the MTV series bombed, but has been the mark on Brooks' books since he renewed his contract with DelRey in around 2000. To get him "off the record" on how he really thinks about being locked in a contract where other folks can essentially dictate him what to put in his books, one of my dreams as a fanboy of fantasy literature.

--- Seems to be modern publishing practice in the US, though: The Dragonlance lawsuit from last year seemed to have a similar problem at its core - "publisher veto", like we're living in the freaking 19th century.

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