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Terry Brooks and Peter V Brett on cancel culture, in the mildest of words

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Shasarak:

--- Quote from: Trond on September 09, 2021, 11:40:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: Shasarak on September 09, 2021, 08:24:06 PM ---I have not read any of Peters books but he sounds really slimy in this video.

But at least he made sure that 50% of his characters were female.

--- End quote ---

I thought so too, or at least; there’s a point of view there that I have seen SO often and that makes me cringe.

 I mean, he says that he thought long and hard about a character changing sex, and at the same time it sounds like he puts males and females 50-50 in all roles from what he’s saying, “what it means to be male or female” comes up with no answer (as usual) and the evergreen “our society puts us in boxes”. I feel like saying: That’s what you came up with? Did the word “biology” ever enter I your mind? What about “hormones”? Are males physically stronger? Of course, maybe those aren’t really concerns in his fantasy world, but I bet women still somehow get pregnant. If you take those things out, and you blur what males and females do in general, then I can answer the question “what it means to be male or female” : it means absolutely nothing anymore. And to me that is the most boring stance when it comes to gender. 

Maybe he DOES address some of these things? Doesn’t sound like it from what I’m hearing.

--- End quote ---

I was actually more interested in listening to what Terry had to say then the other guy who I am sure is a fine writer.

Now Terry has been including strong women in his books since the beginning and in his second novel the main character Amberle Elessedil was even a woman.  I know, shocking right, fourty years ago at the dawn of Fantasy you already had strong woman characters.

I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?

Trond:
The weird thing about the "strong women" thing is that people keep talking about it as if it is something new. When were there no strong women in literature? Gilgamesh? My favorite "trolling" response is that the real reason we keep talking about it as a novelty is that deep down we know, women aren't really that strong :D *



*Yes, I know there are more than one way to be strong, calm down, I said I was trolling

Squidi:

--- Quote from: Shasarak on September 10, 2021, 06:27:11 PM ---I was fascinated to hear Terry say that the only reason he has written so many Shannara novels was because of the fans asking him to write so many Shannara novels.  And that is a great point, when do you let a good thing go?
--- End quote ---
It depends on the author and the circumstance. I think having fans is a responsibility and an honor (though one I didn't personally enjoy). An author or creator who listens to their fans and gives them what they want is certainly praiseworthy - though I'd warn against stagnation, lest you wither as an artist.

My irrational fear was being a one hit wonder. The idea that you can do something people like, but they only like that one thing and nothing else you make is ever good enough - that used to keep me up at night. It's like, am I as good as people tell me that I am, or was I just lucky? I ultimately came to the conclusion that, when it came to writing, I kind of was a one hit wonder and that maybe I didn't have as much to offer my craft as I originally believed. Lucky for me, I'm good at a lot of things and interested just about everything, so I didn't feel damned to keep returning to the same well for all eternity. I would've become an empty shell of a man to constantly face my own inadequacies, day after day.

I actually considered doing something people facing somewhat recently, only to come to the realization that I would be hardcore cancelled after about 15 minutes and I've already been banned from many of the biggest forums and social media outlets (once, for saying Black Panther was a terrible movie, and once for defending HP Lovecraft - I'm such a radical), so I didn't really have an avenue to promote my work to others who might like it. It's like, I'm already pre-cancelled, so what would be the point?

That's my problem with the woke crowd. It isn't just what they destroy. It's also what they prevent from existing in the first place.


--- Quote from: Trond on September 10, 2021, 07:39:18 PM ---My favorite "trolling" response is that the real reason we keep talking about it as a novelty is that deep down we know, women aren't really that strong
--- End quote ---
I'm actually kind of getting sick of strong women. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but I just find it dramatically more interesting for them to be deeply flawed, or weak in some way. I want their strength to come from their weakness.

Like, Ripley is more interesting in Aliens for her PTSD and using Newt as a surrogate for her own lost daughter compared to Vasquez who just points a big gun at stuff and scowls. Ripley wouldn't be considered a strong woman today because she is traumatized, bigoted against androids, and needs to be rescued. She's strong because she overcomes these things.

But these days, it's the Captain Marvel version of strong woman where they were perfect and invincible the entire time, but it was men who were keeping them from reaching their fullest potential (which justifies them bullying everyone around them). Yawn.

Shasarak:

--- Quote from: Squidi on September 10, 2021, 07:53:34 PM ---
--- Quote from: Trond on September 10, 2021, 07:39:18 PM ---My favorite "trolling" response is that the real reason we keep talking about it as a novelty is that deep down we know, women aren't really that strong
--- End quote ---
I'm actually kind of getting sick of strong women. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but I just find it dramatically more interesting for them to be deeply flawed, or weak in some way. I want their strength to come from their weakness.

--- End quote ---

I like how Brin Ohmsford had the stronger wishsong but in the end fell to the corruption of the Ildatch needing to be saved by her brother who only had the power of illusion.

Of course you would never see that story now.  Its Mary Sues all the way down.

Ratman_tf:

--- Quote from: Squidi on September 10, 2021, 07:53:34 PM ---]I'm actually kind of getting sick of strong women. Not that there is anything wrong with them, but I just find it dramatically more interesting for them to be deeply flawed, or weak in some way. I want their strength to come from their weakness.

Like, Ripley is more interesting in Aliens for her PTSD and using Newt as a surrogate for her own lost daughter compared to Vasquez who just points a big gun at stuff and scowls. Ripley wouldn't be considered a strong woman today because she is traumatized, bigoted against androids, and needs to be rescued. She's strong because she overcomes these things.

But these days, it's the Captain Marvel version of strong woman where they were perfect and invincible the entire time, but it was men who were keeping them from reaching their fullest potential (which justifies them bullying everyone around them). Yawn.

--- End quote ---

Yep. Like the cave scene in Last Jedi, where Rey faces herself, and only sees a multitude of reflections of herself. She doesn't need anyone, and doesn't need to improve. She's already pretty much perfect and it's on everyone else to realize it.

I'd argue these aren't strong characters. They're entitled brats.

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