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Author Topic: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”  (Read 5281 times)

SHARK

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2021, 12:01:47 AM »
Greetings!

*SIGH* Some people, such as Mistwell, think that the "Comics Industry" is doing great. Mistwell approves of the new, woke changes and standards. For those people that don't like "Woke Comics"--yeah, the industry is going into the fucking toilet, and fast.

That's exactly what the SJW Woke fucktards like though. THEY LOVE WALLOWING IN SHIT AND DEPRAVITY. They enjoy all of the traditionalists fans of comics--or movies, or anything, really--gnashing your teeth and having seizures of rage. They enjoy the lamentations of traditional books being replaced by rainbow hippos. They giggle in glee when woke teachers pump your kids with Marxist and Feminist brainwashing. They love destroying culture and making everything into a fucking Marxist zombie wasteland. Just open your mouth wide like a little bird and gulp the woke juice down! GULP! GULP! GULP IT THE FUCK DOWN!

And you had best enjoy it, too. So it goes with the comic book industry. EXPECT it to wallow in shit. And don't be surprised that woke comics have many, many fans and cheerleaders, like Mistwell. Mistwell *always* gets into these kinds of arguments, where he champions the woke comic book industry, obfuscates and minimizes. It doesn't really have anything to do with facts though, but political culture, ideology, and traditions. Mistwell approves and supports the new changes--and many traditional comics fans don't. That kind of divide is never going to be resolved with "facts".

I also imagine that STRIXHAVEN will sell very well. There are lots of "Gamers" out there that eagerly jump on gay and trans fucking drama. Their whole lives revolve around this, including their game sessions. It isn't surprising that WOTC is producing a book that appeals to an increasingly feminized segment of the gaming market that is dominated by woke Marxist activists, millennials, and rainbow hippos. That such a segment of the gaming community may not be composed of high numbers is not necessarily relevant. They all buy books reliably, based on being emotionally pandered to. They are all social media hounds, so they chatter, broadcast and support everyone else in the hive mind to buy and support such woke books and modules, so far from "going broke"--they represent a fairly considerable segment of the market that is profitable for WOTC to cater to. Then, well, when most of the WOTC writers and staff are also very WOKE, yeah, they are going to be joyful about creating books like Strixhaven.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2021, 12:06:41 AM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat

Why do I label Manga comics as different from Superhero comics? Because most manga comics are not about superheroes? Manga is in fact mostly written by Japanese people, mostly drawn by Japanese people, and mostly represents a certain comics art style. This does not in any way make it not comics, much like Kirby-esque comics are stil comics despite being mostly Americans with a specific American style. It's still all comics though.

I am starting to wonder if this is a racist thing? Why is it meaningful to you to call it "not comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from Japan, but it is "comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from England? Is it comics if it's written and drawn by someone from France ?
Wow your strawmanning is getting tiring.

You

Are

Wrong

You know you are wrong, but continue to flail about yelling into the wind that different things are the same. Words have meanings and next you are going to say apples are oranges because they are both fruit. But everyone else will continue on with their lives as you eat paste.

I am right, and I worked in this industry specifically and have many current friends working in that industry specifically.  Manga is part of comics. You can offer zero explanation for why it wouldn't be comics other than "because" followed by insults. I keep asking you how it's not comics and you have no cogent answer which doesn't come down to "because." It's nonsense man. Of course manga is comics!

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2021, 12:11:28 AM »
Greetings!

*SIGH* Some people, such as Mistwell, think that the "Comics Industry" is doing great. Mistwell approves of the new, woke changes and standards. For those people that don't like "Woke Comics"--yeah, the industry is going into the fucking toilet, and fast.

I didn't say I approve of anything. I said comics as an industry is doing great.

Quote
And you had best enjoy it, too. So it goes with the comic book industry. EXPECT it to wallow in shit. And don't be surprised that woke comics have many, many fans and cheerleaders, like Mistwell. Mistwell *always* gets into these kinds of arguments, where he champions the woke comic book industry, obfuscates and minimizes. It doesn't really have anything to do with facts though, but political culture, ideology, and traditions. Mistwell approves and supports the new changes--and many traditional comics fans don't. That kind of divide is never going to be resolved with "facts".

I didn't champion the woke-ness I said the industry is doing well. And I am literally the only guy in this whole thread who used facts to support his position, linking to the sales article about the comics industry. NOBODY has presented a single shred of evidence to support their claims beyond "because I said so."

Quote
I also imagine that STRIXHAVEN will sell very well. There are lots of "Gamers" out there that eagerly jump on gay and trans fucking drama.

It's really not that. You guys are spinning it as that, but that's really not what this is. It's trying to attract a younger audience. That's it. That's all this is. It's just a Harry Potter type setting, with a lot more challenges which can be resolved without combat. All this stuff about trans and gay...none of that is what this book is about.

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2021, 12:16:55 AM »
Mist let's go back to grade school and help you understand similar things can be different. Look at this





Now hopefully you see know that while they are somewhat similar mediums, these are in fact different mediums. If not, there is no hope for you not to be a dishonest twat.

Just total nonsense. How often they publish (weekly vs monthly) is a different medium, even though some manga publishes monthly or even later than that? Black and white vs color (though plenty of Americans also publish in black and white) is a different medium, not to mention some manga is also color? More places sell them? Come on, NONE of this is about being a different medium! It's the same fucking medium. ALL of the items listed here at various times have happened with American comics too. And fuck that "Story moves at a quicker pace" nonsense, that person has never read Lone Wolf and Cub which is one of the top Manga comics of history and moves like a snail!

This is just some weird promo. Manga IS comics. I mean, look it up. Go get a definition of manga and look for yourself.

Edit - from the page that graphic is from, "Eventually, it is hard to determine which kind of comics is better. " So even that author agrees both are comics!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 12:19:53 AM by Mistwell »

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2021, 06:06:30 AM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat

Why do I label Manga comics as different from Superhero comics? Because most manga comics are not about superheroes? Manga is in fact mostly written by Japanese people, mostly drawn by Japanese people, and mostly represents a certain comics art style. This does not in any way make it not comics, much like Kirby-esque comics are stil comics despite being mostly Americans with a specific American style. It's still all comics though.

I am starting to wonder if this is a racist thing? Why is it meaningful to you to call it "not comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from Japan, but it is "comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from England? Is it comics if it's written and drawn by someone from France ?
Wow your strawmanning is getting tiring.

You

Are

Wrong

You know you are wrong, but continue to flail about yelling into the wind that different things are the same. Words have meanings and next you are going to say apples are oranges because they are both fruit. But everyone else will continue on with their lives as you eat paste.

I am right, and I worked in this industry specifically and have many current friends working in that industry specifically.  Manga is part of comics. You can offer zero explanation for why it wouldn't be comics other than "because" followed by insults. I keep asking you how it's not comics and you have no cogent answer which doesn't come down to "because." It's nonsense man. Of course manga is comics!
Look more lying! Then an appeal to authority, but which industry? Because we are taking about two different ones, so cough it up

DM_Curt

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2021, 08:29:40 AM »
To be fair, the subclasses they dropped were just their weird, fucked-up strangeness made for this book. It's good that those died. They still use the subclasses that are in PHB and other books.
I dunno. I thought that the idea of subclasses that were not limited to being used by only one class was a decent enough idea. (Yes, sometimes I wonder "What if Scout could be used by something other than just Rogues", and "What if archetypes were like the Kits in 2e. Could be skipped entirely, and had both advantages and hindrances, so you're not more powerful by taking them".)
 
Now I'm thinking it at least isn't the worst thing to come out of this book, like "relationships".  I keep hearing the term "hot mess" in regards to this book....
Quote
“As we reflected on our own experience as university students, we looked at not only how much excitement there can be, but what a hot mess college life can be. "

Source: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/07/dd-strixhaven-book-drops-subclasses-adds-relationships.html
....and thinking it may be more apt than Crawford realizes. (Maybe more like "..but what a Dumpster Fire this book can be"?)

I have a young player at my table really looking forward to this book because they're thinking it'll be Harry Potter-ish and I think this book is NOT that and not worth picking up.

RandyB

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2021, 08:40:19 AM »
  People call it woke when Marvel does it because THEY TAKE AN ESTABLISHED CHARACTER AND RETCON THEM FOR THE SAKE OF SOME SJW ARTIST'S EGO.   IF a character is panbigenderqueer no one gives a fuck if the character is interesting and every frame does not revolve around who they want to bang.    MAKE A NEW CHARACTER just like Manga does, IMO if you are a Marvel or a DC.  If the character catches on, so be it.  But stop taking other people's work and fucking it up.

"Taking other people's work and fucking it up" is the objective. Why would they stop pursuing their objective?

KingCheops

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2021, 10:28:17 AM »
  People call it woke when Marvel does it because THEY TAKE AN ESTABLISHED CHARACTER AND RETCON THEM FOR THE SAKE OF SOME SJW ARTIST'S EGO.   IF a character is panbigenderqueer no one gives a fuck if the character is interesting and every frame does not revolve around who they want to bang.    MAKE A NEW CHARACTER just like Manga does, IMO if you are a Marvel or a DC.  If the character catches on, so be it.  But stop taking other people's work and fucking it up.

Wait?  You mean people didn't always clamour for Steve Rogers to be gay?  I'm shocked!

oggsmash

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2021, 04:18:39 PM »
 I guess the most frustrating part, is they take the prior work, fuck it up beyond all repair, and then bitch to the high heavens that too many fans are "toxic" and do not buy the trash they are trying to sell.   I have no idea how many of those artists are actually SJW types and how many are shopping their "twist" in an attempt to dive into a deeper cesspool (hollyweird); but the simple fact that successful comic book artists working for the "big time" are super eager to jump out and up, tells me something about how much money many of them are NOT making.   Talented people not making very much money is not exactly a signal to success to me.

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #69 on: September 07, 2021, 05:17:54 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat

Why do I label Manga comics as different from Superhero comics? Because most manga comics are not about superheroes? Manga is in fact mostly written by Japanese people, mostly drawn by Japanese people, and mostly represents a certain comics art style. This does not in any way make it not comics, much like Kirby-esque comics are stil comics despite being mostly Americans with a specific American style. It's still all comics though.

I am starting to wonder if this is a racist thing? Why is it meaningful to you to call it "not comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from Japan, but it is "comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from England? Is it comics if it's written and drawn by someone from France ?
Wow your strawmanning is getting tiring.

You

Are

Wrong

You know you are wrong, but continue to flail about yelling into the wind that different things are the same. Words have meanings and next you are going to say apples are oranges because they are both fruit. But everyone else will continue on with their lives as you eat paste.

I am right, and I worked in this industry specifically and have many current friends working in that industry specifically.  Manga is part of comics. You can offer zero explanation for why it wouldn't be comics other than "because" followed by insults. I keep asking you how it's not comics and you have no cogent answer which doesn't come down to "because." It's nonsense man. Of course manga is comics!
Look more lying! Then an appeal to authority, but which industry? Because we are taking about two different ones, so cough it up

How am I lying?

HOW IS MANGA NOT COMICS?

And I am not appealing to authority, because I am not saying I am right purely because I've worked in the industry, I am saying the facts I am giving you are right based on actual experience in the industry - evidence they're not just guesses or instinct. And it's the industry we're talking about, but you get no more personal details of my life, thanks.

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #70 on: September 07, 2021, 06:26:59 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat

Why do I label Manga comics as different from Superhero comics? Because most manga comics are not about superheroes? Manga is in fact mostly written by Japanese people, mostly drawn by Japanese people, and mostly represents a certain comics art style. This does not in any way make it not comics, much like Kirby-esque comics are stil comics despite being mostly Americans with a specific American style. It's still all comics though.

I am starting to wonder if this is a racist thing? Why is it meaningful to you to call it "not comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from Japan, but it is "comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from England? Is it comics if it's written and drawn by someone from France ?
Wow your strawmanning is getting tiring.

You

Are

Wrong

You know you are wrong, but continue to flail about yelling into the wind that different things are the same. Words have meanings and next you are going to say apples are oranges because they are both fruit. But everyone else will continue on with their lives as you eat paste.

I am right, and I worked in this industry specifically and have many current friends working in that industry specifically.  Manga is part of comics. You can offer zero explanation for why it wouldn't be comics other than "because" followed by insults. I keep asking you how it's not comics and you have no cogent answer which doesn't come down to "because." It's nonsense man. Of course manga is comics!
Look more lying! Then an appeal to authority, but which industry? Because we are taking about two different ones, so cough it up

How am I lying?

HOW IS MANGA NOT COMICS?

And I am not appealing to authority, because I am not saying I am right purely because I've worked in the industry, I am saying the facts I am giving you are right based on actual experience in the industry - evidence they're not just guesses or instinct. And it's the industry we're talking about, but you get no more personal details of my life, thanks.
How are you telling the truth? Because you're not. And you are appealing to authority because you haven't proved you worked in the comuc industry any more than I have. So your facts are 100% lies

Pat

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #71 on: September 07, 2021, 06:38:50 PM »
You know what's always a silly argument? Claiming there is only one right way to define a word that's clearly being used in different ways by different people.

SHARK

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #72 on: September 07, 2021, 07:23:04 PM »
You know what's always a silly argument? Claiming there is only one right way to define a word that's clearly being used in different ways by different people.

Greetings!

I agree, Pat. I was trying to say something similar with my earlier post. *sigh*

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"

Shasarak

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2021, 09:43:39 PM »
All this talk about how great comics are doing reminded me of my favourite one:  New Warriors

https://northstarnews.org/29382/reviews-2/marvels-new-warriors-brings-new-controversy/



There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

Ghostmaker

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2021, 10:14:15 PM »
All this talk about how great comics are doing reminded me of my favourite one:  New Warriors

https://northstarnews.org/29382/reviews-2/marvels-new-warriors-brings-new-controversy/


Ah, I remember this shitstorm. It was basically 'Muh Duhversity: The Comic!'

There were a couple good ideas, a couple lousy ones, and the Morbius knockoff made no sense at all because as far as I am aware, Morbius destroyed all his research because of how badly he'd fucked himself up.

And the whole Safespace/Snowflake dynamic was, astonishingly enough, even creepier than the Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver dynamic in Ultimates (seriously -- it was kind of disturbing, and proof that there was no goddamn editorial oversight for Ultimates 3).