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Author Topic: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”  (Read 5201 times)

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2021, 01:38:33 PM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?

It's you misreading the goals of this and the other more recent planned book. Both are intended for a YOUNGER audience. That's it. All the stuff you're all worked up about is mild and secondary. The primary goal is stuff you can play with kids, most of which involves encounters that can be resolved without combat. There is some demand for this kind of content but it's in no way the new standard. It will sell well to that portion of the audience which likes this stuff, and that's it. Nobody is committing suicide. Their sales continue to increase.

I know you and others often try to compare WOTC to Comics. And yet, Comics just had their best year ever also. You will now undoubtedly insert excuse and diversion #963 for how that could be but it all amounts to the same bullshit. They're not committing suicide - they're all doing fine despite not catering to your tastes.
You lying gaslighting piece of shit. Manga and anime are not comics. The piece literally says Manga and anime are added to these numbers. Western comics can't even get in the top twenty list for graphic novels. The big two are dying again after their small bump from being bought out by WB and Disney. Truthfully marvel comics would be dead and gone if the movies didn't fund them as a idea farm. Most western comics sell less than 50k now, when they use to sell half a million an issue.

More to the point one manga "Demon Slayer" to be exact out sells all of Western comics by it self. Now comic pros are using it's success as a benchmark of how their industry is doing.

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2021, 02:26:27 PM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?

It's you misreading the goals of this and the other more recent planned book. Both are intended for a YOUNGER audience. That's it. All the stuff you're all worked up about is mild and secondary. The primary goal is stuff you can play with kids, most of which involves encounters that can be resolved without combat. There is some demand for this kind of content but it's in no way the new standard. It will sell well to that portion of the audience which likes this stuff, and that's it. Nobody is committing suicide. Their sales continue to increase.

I know you and others often try to compare WOTC to Comics. And yet, Comics just had their best year ever also. You will now undoubtedly insert excuse and diversion #963 for how that could be but it all amounts to the same bullshit. They're not committing suicide - they're all doing fine despite not catering to your tastes.
You lying gaslighting piece of shit. Manga and anime are not comics. The piece literally says Manga and anime are added to these numbers. Western comics can't even get in the top twenty list for graphic novels. The big two are dying again after their small bump from being bought out by WB and Disney. Truthfully marvel comics would be dead and gone if the movies didn't fund them as a idea farm. Most western comics sell less than 50k now, when they use to sell half a million an issue.

More to the point one manga "Demon Slayer" to be exact out sells all of Western comics by it self. Now comic pros are using it's success as a benchmark of how their industry is doing.

Of course Manga is comics (and it doesn't say it's counting anime sales it's saying anime streaming is driving manga sales - reading comprehension is apparently not your forte). WTF are you blathering on about? Manga is by every definition "comics" it's just not your cup of tea apparently. I however was buying Lone Wolf and Cub in the 90s at comic con from Dark Horse Comics. 

And Manga has been trending woke for years by the way. For example you mention Demon Slayer - Demon Slayer includes a young girl who is "pansexual." Another is lesbian.

One other trend is digital comics sales. And the third big trend is Scholastic, which is mostly middle-grade graphic novels for girls - also trending woke, and also selling gangbusters.

I am not saying Marvel and DC are doing awesome (though they are not doing nearly as poorly as you seem to think), I am saying comics are doing awesome. It's just not all traditional superheroes. Which you equate with comics and so get all riled up even though that hasn't been what "comics" means for over a decade. Because you're FUCKING OLD AND OUT OF TOUCH.

Comics was all sorts of genres before the comics code authority killed most of them and forced it all into superheroes, and comics is returning to being all sorts of genres now that the comics code doesn't dictate the medium anymore. And as they return to all genres, they're doing great. Even though many are trending woke.

Comics does not mean Marvel and DC superheroes, even though that's what it meant when you and I were younger (though I was quickly buying non-superhero stuff when it started to come out). Manga and Middle School girls oriented graphic novels are as comics as superman and X-men. You're just fucking old and raging against time not standing still. Which I get. I can identify with that. But it's not gaslighting you to tell you that's what you're experiencing. It's just a hard truth.

Meanwhile my kid is reading tons of middle grade Scholastic graphic novels and loving them. Some are more left-leaning, some are not. Honestly, they're kinda like the Judy Blume books of this decade (and she was also what would now be considered kinda "woke" for that era). My daughter likes them all. So do many MANY kids in her age group. It's just not made for you and me. Which is OK. I probably would have been into Dog Man had it been out when I was 9. I was into Bone in the 90s and Blankets in the early 2000s, and those fit right in with current comics trends. And they were also most certainly comics.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 03:09:17 PM by Mistwell »

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2021, 03:11:28 PM »
bullshit, piles of bullshit
Fuck your disingenuous ass manga ain't comics. They never have been. Manga has always been counted separately from comics for decades. And only now after decades of acceptance and popularity from former comics buyers, while the American comic industry is slowly dying a cancerous death, the western industry thumbtacks manga sales onto their dying industry.

Also forcing schools to buy your dog shit isn't a winning strategy for a for profit company. There is a reason a single manga outselled all western comics COMBINED. But you think a dying industry is the same as a thriving one.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 03:30:31 PM by Ogre »

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2021, 03:31:49 PM »
bullshit, piles of bullshit
Fuck your disingenuous ass manga ain't comics. They never have been. Manga has always been counted separately from comics for decades.

No, it has not. WTF is wrong with you? Of course Manga is comics. What about Manga isn't comics? I've bought Manga comics since the 1990s published by U.S. comics publishers like Dark Horse. Viz is making out like a bandit right now from selling Manga in the U.S.. You think Dark Horse and Viz are Japanese companies or something?

Quote
Also forcing schools to buy your dog shit isn't a winning strategy for a for profit company. There is a reason a single manga outselled all western comics COMBINED. But you think a dying industry is the same as a thriving one.

Forcing schools? Bwahahaha jesus what nonsense are you spewing now? Scholastic is selling huge IN BOOK STORES AN ONLINE. My daughter has bought ever one of those books in Barnes and Noble. Scholastic, as a company, took a change in tactic some years ago. And it paid off huge. Kids were not buying Scholastic through schools - all those book drives at schools were called off last year anyway. You really have just no idea what the fuck you're talking about anymore when it comes to comics, do you? Which is OK, it's this blustering bullshit nonsense of you still pretending to know the industry when you know that you don't.

Comics is a thriving industry right now. It's just that superheroes is stagnant. But superheroes isn't all of comics and never was, except when the comics code forced it to be just that. Romance and westerns and war comics and fantasy and science fiction and adventure and all sorts of other genres once dominated comics before the code, and it's dominating the comics again now that the code is gone. You just think time was supposed to stand still because you think X-men and Teen Titans is supposed to be the beginning and end of comic books.

And who do you think is buying all that Manga by the way? I just told you Demon Slayer has woke characters in it too, and you admit it's selling huge, so where is your "get woke go broke" drivel now? What point are you even trying to make by arguing a woke Manga comic is outselling woke Superhero comics?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 03:34:24 PM by Mistwell »

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2021, 04:18:19 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2021, 05:51:48 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.

GriswaldTerrastone

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2021, 07:28:07 PM »
Mistwell, you know perfectly well that Manga is NOT comics in a woke American sense.

Manga is willing to go ANYWHERE, and that would include anything that offends the left. Hyper-sexy busty anime girls in swimsuits running from a tiny robot spider finally shot by The Hyper-Masculine Hero so they lavish oh-gosh-thank-you appreciation on him? Villainous black guys beat up by heroic whites? Evil lesbians or homosexuals? Transexuals being made out to be insane? Manga does not care, and THAT'S why it does well.

But AMERICAN comics that went "woke" are dying. You know this is true.

What you are doing is lumping everything together as "proof" that you are right. That's like having a bunch of fat slow lazy women on a women's volleyball team except for one- Jaime Sommers, "The Bionic Woman." Lo and behold, that team wins. But it was ONLY because of Jaime, the others were worthless losers. If you take Manga or independent non-woke comics out of the equation where are you then? Are you really saying Marvel and DC are doing well when comics shops are closing AND HAVE BEEN FAILING well before covid-19?

The fact is that anything that has gone "woke" is going broke, and you know it. Awards shows ratings are in the sewer. Sports franchises are in serious trouble. American entertainment is going down in flames. I know how statistics can be manipulated, having learned that back in 1985, so do not try any such tricks with me.

As I said- some people have their heads so far in the sand they can strike oil. Anyone who fails to see the damage done to every institution that has gone "woke" is either willfully ignorant or just a liar.   
I'm 55. My profile won't record this. It's only right younger members know how old I am.

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2021, 07:53:59 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 07:55:39 PM by Ogre »

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2021, 08:06:56 PM »
Mistwell, you know perfectly well that Manga is NOT comics in a woke American sense.

Manga is willing to go ANYWHERE, and that would include anything that offends the left. Hyper-sexy busty anime girls in swimsuits running from a tiny robot spider finally shot by The Hyper-Masculine Hero so they lavish oh-gosh-thank-you appreciation on him? Villainous black guys beat up by heroic whites? Evil lesbians or homosexuals? Transexuals being made out to be insane? Manga does not care, and THAT'S why it does well.

You are lumping all Manga together like all their stories are the same, all their publishers and writers and artists are the same, etc.. It's as nonsense as if you'd said that about US writers and artists. You can find all that crazy shit with US writers and artists too, just not at Marvel and DC. You are again trying to conflate "comics" with "Marvel and DC because it's what my old ass is most familiar with."

And on an RPG board devoted to "Not 5e D&D" this is frankly fucking pathetic. Stop it. You know comics are not just the two superheroes companies in America, much like RPGs are not just WOTC and Paizo.

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But AMERICAN comics that went "woke" are dying. You know this is true.

Some are and some are not. Much like Manga. Again, the top selling Manga has a lesbian and a pansexual character. You know and I know if Marvel does that you freak out and call it woke. You're pretending it's not woke because it's inconvenient for your position. Despite the fact your play pretend is disingenuous.

Quote
What you are doing is lumping everything together as "proof" that you are right.

No I am lumping all comics together because it's ALL COMICS. You're doing this stupid tortured "It's comics unless it's written and drawn by Japanese people and then it "doesn't count" because of...reasons?"

Quote
The fact is that anything that has gone "woke" is going broke, and you know it.

Manga which has gone woke is doing just fine. D&D 5e which has gone woke is doing fine. It's really dependent purely on if it's good or not. Good woke sells well. Bad woke sells poorly. That's it. That's the only pattern here. If it's well written and drawn it will sell well. If it's not it won't. Whether it's woke or not is not really that relevant to whether it sells well or not.

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Sports franchises are in serious trouble. American entertainment is going down in flames.

Wow. The stupid is strong in you. Literally nothing you just said is true in any way. It is in fact the opposite. I cannot believe how ridiculously out of touch old man yelling at the clouds you sound right now.

Live sports are the top of the ratings. American entertainment continues to dominate the world - particularly American video games right now. It's just that you're stuck on the stuff you enjoyed 20 years ago and don't watch new trends. Despite watching new trends 20 years ago when you were young.

Mistwell

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2021, 08:11:44 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat

Why do I label Manga comics as different from Superhero comics? Because most manga comics are not about superheroes? Manga is in fact mostly written by Japanese people, mostly drawn by Japanese people, and mostly represents a certain comics art style. This does not in any way make it not comics, much like Kirby-esque comics are stil comics despite being mostly Americans with a specific American style. It's still all comics though.

I am starting to wonder if this is a racist thing? Why is it meaningful to you to call it "not comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from Japan, but it is "comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from England? Is it comics if it's written and drawn by someone from France ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 08:14:18 PM by Mistwell »

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2021, 08:46:55 PM »
I know you're a lying piece of shit but don't stawman me. When did I mention anything about woke shit? You lying ass. And even comic pros don't lump manga in comic sells you disingenuous liar. How can one manga sell more than all comics if manga is comics you lying fuck?
if these things are so very much the same why do you label them with your own words as different you pedantic asshat.

Do you not even understand the point you were replying to, to begin with? People made the point of get woke go broke, just like comics. I said comics is doing great and so is RPG sales. People said comics isn't doing great, etc., until we got to this point. If you're not even arguing that point then what fucking point are you arguing?

Of course comics pros lump manga in with comics, because the people who create manga ARE COMICS PROS. Shit dude most American comics pros highly respect Japanese comics pros. They're all comics pros. Manga IS comics. It's not selling "more than comics" it IS comics, and it's selling more than AMERICAN SUPERHEROES COMICS.

I mean explain to me this, how is it that a British writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you agree it's a comic book but a Japanese writer and artist can write a comic book which sells well in the US and you think it's not a comic? The only difference is the nationality of the author and artist. It's all comics. Comics is a medium of communication. As long as it meets the criteria for that content medium it doesn't matter the nationality of the creators.
If these things are the same why do you label them differently with your own words you pedantic asshat

Why do I label Manga comics as different from Superhero comics? Because most manga comics are not about superheroes? Manga is in fact mostly written by Japanese people, mostly drawn by Japanese people, and mostly represents a certain comics art style. This does not in any way make it not comics, much like Kirby-esque comics are stil comics despite being mostly Americans with a specific American style. It's still all comics though.

I am starting to wonder if this is a racist thing? Why is it meaningful to you to call it "not comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from Japan, but it is "comics" if it's written and drawn by someone from England? Is it comics if it's written and drawn by someone from France ?
Wow your strawmanning is getting tiring.

You

Are

Wrong

You know you are wrong, but continue to flail about yelling into the wind that different things are the same. Words have meanings and next you are going to say apples are oranges because they are both fruit. But everyone else will continue on with their lives as you eat paste.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 09:38:18 PM by Ogre »

Ogre

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2021, 09:01:37 PM »
Mist let's go back to grade school and help you understand similar things can be different. Look at this



See how both have brown fur, four legs, and long muzzles? Would you call them the same animal? Hopefully not. Now let's see how comics and manga can be different.


Now hopefully you see know that while they are somewhat similar mediums, these are in fact different mediums. If not, there is no hope for you not to be a dishonest twat.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 09:06:22 PM by Ogre »

GriswaldTerrastone

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2021, 09:43:17 PM »
What disturbs me the most about you, Mistwell, is not just the fact that you are ignoring reality but the damage this inflicts.

Disney and Kathleen Turner basically ruined the "Star Wars" franchise, but the ones on top are not going to suffer. They are rich.

It is the "little guys" who will suffer because of mentalities like yours. The technicians, the extras, the caterers, the cameramen. In the comics field the artists, the delivery people, the comic book shops. And these are just a few, at the mercy of the "woke" and people like you who encourage it.

But you don't care, do you? That's the worst part of it.

And yes, I have been around for a while. So I have seen firsthand the damage political correctness has done to everything. To me it is experienced, not just theory. And the results are dreadful and even cruel. And for what?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2021, 09:47:40 PM by GriswaldTerrastone »
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oggsmash

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2021, 10:39:22 PM »
  People call it woke when Marvel does it because THEY TAKE AN ESTABLISHED CHARACTER AND RETCON THEM FOR THE SAKE OF SOME SJW ARTIST'S EGO.   IF a character is panbigenderqueer no one gives a fuck if the character is interesting and every frame does not revolve around who they want to bang.    MAKE A NEW CHARACTER just like Manga does, IMO if you are a Marvel or a DC.  If the character catches on, so be it.  But stop taking other people's work and fucking it up.

HappyDaze

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Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2021, 11:10:55 PM »
What disturbs me the most about you, Mistwell, is not just the fact that you are ignoring reality but the damage this inflicts.

Disney and Kathleen Turner basically ruined the "Star Wars" franchise, but the ones on top are not going to suffer. They are rich.

It is the "little guys" who will suffer because of mentalities like yours. The technicians, the extras, the caterers, the cameramen. In the comics field the artists, the delivery people, the comic book shops. And these are just a few, at the mercy of the "woke" and people like you who encourage it.

But you don't care, do you? That's the worst part of it.

And yes, I have been around for a while. So I have seen firsthand the damage political correctness has done to everything. To me it is experienced, not just theory. And the results are dreadful and even cruel. And for what?
And think of their children too!