This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”  (Read 2757 times)

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2021, 10:50:56 PM »
BTW why isn't this in the RPG forum?

Eirikrautha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 529
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2021, 06:50:14 AM »
I know it's so weird. I was hardcore D&D/AD&D. I played BECM D&D and AD&D simultaneously when I got into the hobby. When 2nd came along I was hyped and loved it. Third came along and I'm like okay some of the stuff looks cool. But since 3.5 WotC always, always, has some straw for me that breaks me. In the 3e/3.5e/D20 era it was the proliferation of feats/magic items. I bought the core three for 4e and I'm like, where's my D&D, wasn't for me. 5e comes along and I was all on board. Really liked how design had advanced but still felt like D&D to me. Then this woke bullshit. And I bought Tasha's thinking okay other systems don't have the sacred cows of racial stat modifiers, maybe I can live with it. But not anymore.

I know I'm not in their target audience. There was an info-graph a couple of months ago and my age bracket (late 40's early 50's) is so small. I'm still in that phase of the relationship where I'm sad but I know I need to let it go. Ah well, I'm glad for the OSR. There are fantastic games out there. DCC is really fun right now.

Funny thing is your age bracket (and mine) has the most dispossable income to drop into hobbies, if D&D/Marvel/DC/etc have less people of that bracket buying their product it's due to their intentional alienation of said consumer base.

Incorrect. It's the 20-somethings with jobs but no mortgage, spouse, or kids who have the most disposable income to drop on hobbies. Always has been, and always will be. Your age the money is dominated by other things and hobby expenditures usually decrease. 20-somethings are not usually choosing between buying a new circular saw or a $100 RPG book. 40-somethings do make those choices, and more often choose the saw.

Also, RPG sales keep going up and up and up. It's not that the 40-60 year olds stopped buying (they've remained roughly stable), it's that the teens and 20-somethings are buying a shit-ton more.
I love how you just assert this as fact.  Twenty year-olds may have fewer expenses and more disposable income as a percentage of their income, but they also make far less than forty to sixty year-olds.  Many professionals might see their salaries double or triple by the time they retire.  It's not twenty year-olds who buy the bulk of collectible figurines and such trivial items (and those cost a lot more than RPGs and have much less "utility").  So it's not clearly cut-and-dried, like you assert.  Younger players tend to buy the electronic versions of RPGs, which are more easily tracked.  But there is very little data available to the public about the age of most purchases, be they electronic or hardcopy.

GriswaldTerrastone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Just here.
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2021, 04:04:50 PM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?
I'm 55. My profile won't record this. It's only right younger members know how old I am.

Ghostmaker

  • Chlorine trifluoride
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2021, 04:14:56 PM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?
You might consider picking up Bernard Goldberg's book 'Bias', which talks about how screwed up the echo chamber of journalism is.

Short form, it's not a conspiracy per se. It's closer to a hive mind where everyone thinks the same, all their friends and coworkers think the same, and there's no dissenting opinions. They don't think of it as committing suicide (even when it is) because all their focus groups say it's TOTALLY fine.

There's also the aspect of insulation. Marvel hasn't started to crack yet because they're well padded with money from the MCU movies that weren't complete shit. WotC is padded from MtG (for now). And you can bet the designers and execs will never be let go 'because you ran the fucking company into the ground!'. No, they'll be ushered out to 'explore independent ideas' or some such tripe.

GriswaldTerrastone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Just here.
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2021, 04:58:05 PM »
What is "MtG?"

But it's been happening for years now. "Solo" LOST over $100,000,000 dollars, something nobody from my time would have thought possible: a "Star Wars" movie LOSING money.

As for conspiracy- I'm sorry, but it is. For decades now our society is being undermined. The original idea behind Dungeons and Dragons was good vs. evil, with players clearly encouraged to choose the side of good (one look in the 1977 "Monster Manual" made it obvious that good dragons were superior to evil ones); naturally this had to be done away with via a version of Critical Theory.

But people have been losing their jobs and money. The entertainment industry has had to lay off more and more people. Disney is filled with infighting due to losses. No focus group can conceal something even a 55-year-old like me has known for some time. When does the human instinct for selfish self-preservation finally kick in?

What has happened to everything?

 
I'm 55. My profile won't record this. It's only right younger members know how old I am.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2021, 05:22:18 PM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?

It's you misreading the goals of this and the other more recent planned book. Both are intended for a YOUNGER audience. That's it. All the stuff you're all worked up about is mild and secondary. The primary goal is stuff you can play with kids, most of which involves encounters that can be resolved without combat. There is some demand for this kind of content but it's in no way the new standard. It will sell well to that portion of the audience which likes this stuff, and that's it. Nobody is committing suicide. Their sales continue to increase.

I know you and others often try to compare WOTC to Comics. And yet, Comics just had their best year ever also. You will now undoubtedly insert excuse and diversion #963 for how that could be but it all amounts to the same bullshit. They're not committing suicide - they're all doing fine despite not catering to your tastes.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 05:26:59 PM by Mistwell »

GriswaldTerrastone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
  • Just here.
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2021, 05:24:33 PM »
It always starts as you say. Sometimes it's "just a discussion," sometimes just...then look what happens.

Sure, they are all doing well- sure. That's why comic shops are closing, nobody is buying, and the ratings for sports, awards shows, etc. are in the sewers.

Some people seem to want to keep their heads so far in the sand they can strike oil. Don't try links like that on someone who did learn about statistics.

By the by:

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/dd-sjws-cancel-dragonlance-authors-sue-wizards/
« Last Edit: September 01, 2021, 06:09:16 PM by GriswaldTerrastone »
I'm 55. My profile won't record this. It's only right younger members know how old I am.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2021, 06:50:48 PM »
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2151
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2021, 08:21:46 PM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?

It's you misreading the goals of this and the other more recent planned book. Both are intended for a YOUNGER audience. That's it. All the stuff you're all worked up about is mild and secondary. The primary goal is stuff you can play with kids, most of which involves encounters that can be resolved without combat. There is some demand for this kind of content but it's in no way the new standard. It will sell well to that portion of the audience which likes this stuff, and that's it. Nobody is committing suicide. Their sales continue to increase.

I know you and others often try to compare WOTC to Comics. And yet, Comics just had their best year ever also. You will now undoubtedly insert excuse and diversion #963 for how that could be but it all amounts to the same bullshit. They're not committing suicide - they're all doing fine despite not catering to your tastes.

  When people compare WOTC to comics, I think they are implying DC and Marvel.  DC and Marvel are NOT having their best year ever.  Comics, especially if you include Manga are doing fantastic, but it is often through places like Indigogo, where people who were canceled out of working for DC like Ethan Van Scriver is doing millions in sales.    I do not disagree that WOTC might be doing OK with younger people by having a whole book dedicated to gay prom, but Marvel and DC are further down the train wreck road than they are.   They are not doing fine, at all. 

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2021, 12:01:40 AM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?

It's you misreading the goals of this and the other more recent planned book. Both are intended for a YOUNGER audience. That's it. All the stuff you're all worked up about is mild and secondary. The primary goal is stuff you can play with kids, most of which involves encounters that can be resolved without combat. There is some demand for this kind of content but it's in no way the new standard. It will sell well to that portion of the audience which likes this stuff, and that's it. Nobody is committing suicide. Their sales continue to increase.

I know you and others often try to compare WOTC to Comics. And yet, Comics just had their best year ever also. You will now undoubtedly insert excuse and diversion #963 for how that could be but it all amounts to the same bullshit. They're not committing suicide - they're all doing fine despite not catering to your tastes.

  When people compare WOTC to comics, I think they are implying DC and Marvel.  DC and Marvel are NOT having their best year ever.  Comics, especially if you include Manga are doing fantastic, but it is often through places like Indigogo, where people who were canceled out of working for DC like Ethan Van Scriver is doing millions in sales.    I do not disagree that WOTC might be doing OK with younger people by having a whole book dedicated to gay prom, but Marvel and DC are further down the train wreck road than they are.   They are not doing fine, at all.

Like Scholastic and IDW and the various Manga publishers are not also advocating for more social justice these days? It's not Indigogo that's a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the total.

Brand55

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • B
  • Posts: 912
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2021, 01:03:45 AM »
What is "MtG?"
Magic: the Gathering. It's a card game that basically prints money for Wizards of the Coast. It's also horribly broken and basically a huge scam, but that doesn't stop a lot of people from each sinking many thousands of dollars into cards each year.

Shasarak

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2021, 01:14:34 AM »
What is "MtG?"
Magic: the Gathering. It's a card game that basically prints money for Wizards of the Coast. It's also horribly broken and basically a huge scam, but that doesn't stop a lot of people from each sinking many thousands of dollars into cards each year.

A cool million NZD and this little beauty is all yours




https://www.ebay.com/itm/232624529959
There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus

oggsmash

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2151
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2021, 05:33:27 AM »
The problem I'm having is: I do not understand this.

I literally cannot grasp how the people behind this sort of thing ever got into a position to do this. I understand the leftist concept of the "long slow march through the institutions," but how does that sort of thing keep working?

The financial effect it all has on every single institution that has ever been so overrun is by now obvious: "Star Trek," comics, "Star Wars," "He-Man," the list is endless. If nothing else humans do have an instinct for self-preservation- so why do these people keep leaping off cliffs like stereotypical lemmings? Can't male executives, writers, and artists, especially white heterosexual ones, see that they are destroying themselves?

Is Wizards of the Coast doing so well that they can keep going down this road? Are these people all getting a monthly check from George Soros so they don't have to care? Roosh has said that the goal of corporations is no longer to make money but just to indoctrinate, was he THAT accurate?

That's that part I don't understand- why are all these entities committing mass suicide?

It's you misreading the goals of this and the other more recent planned book. Both are intended for a YOUNGER audience. That's it. All the stuff you're all worked up about is mild and secondary. The primary goal is stuff you can play with kids, most of which involves encounters that can be resolved without combat. There is some demand for this kind of content but it's in no way the new standard. It will sell well to that portion of the audience which likes this stuff, and that's it. Nobody is committing suicide. Their sales continue to increase.

I know you and others often try to compare WOTC to Comics. And yet, Comics just had their best year ever also. You will now undoubtedly insert excuse and diversion #963 for how that could be but it all amounts to the same bullshit. They're not committing suicide - they're all doing fine despite not catering to your tastes.

  When people compare WOTC to comics, I think they are implying DC and Marvel.  DC and Marvel are NOT having their best year ever.  Comics, especially if you include Manga are doing fantastic, but it is often through places like Indigogo, where people who were canceled out of working for DC like Ethan Van Scriver is doing millions in sales.    I do not disagree that WOTC might be doing OK with younger people by having a whole book dedicated to gay prom, but Marvel and DC are further down the train wreck road than they are.   They are not doing fine, at all.

Like Scholastic and IDW and the various Manga publishers are not also advocating for more social justice these days? It's not Indigogo that's a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the total.

  Almost ALL comics have almost ALWAYS advocated for more social justice.  Race swapping heroes, retroactively making them gay,  and dramatically changing themes, and sacrificing quality for diversity hires is what is killing DC and Marvel.    what various other publishers are doing is not the point, just like making gay prom suddenly a central idea, it is the rapid jarring swapping out of direction.   I have no idea if this is long term good or bad for WOTC, vaping is very popular, but it is not for me.   WOTC has said to me, it is not for me.  I do not care if they succeed or fail, but they are treading a path where they will become something else, if that works out for them, I dont care.  If that makes them crash, I dont care. 

KingCheops

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 1171
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2021, 11:20:45 AM »
  Almost ALL comics have almost ALWAYS advocated for more social justice.  Race swapping heroes, retroactively making them gay,  and dramatically changing themes, and sacrificing quality for diversity hires is what is killing DC and Marvel.    what various other publishers are doing is not the point, just like making gay prom suddenly a central idea, it is the rapid jarring swapping out of direction.   I have no idea if this is long term good or bad for WOTC, vaping is very popular, but it is not for me.   WOTC has said to me, it is not for me.  I do not care if they succeed or fail, but they are treading a path where they will become something else, if that works out for them, I dont care.  If that makes them crash, I dont care.

This is what I don't understand about this puritan push in comics and RPGs.  Both have always been very progressive for their time.  It's when it moves from art to propaganda when it starts to feel not fun.  I can't tell you exactly where the line is but you really feel it when it crosses that Rubicon.

"Your imaginary elf is non-binary?  Fine whatever as long as it doesn't derail the game."
"Why does every village in this imaginary elf land have black folk and a higher than demographic representation of alphabet people?  Are these purse puppies?"

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3921
Re: Strixhaven Dropped subclasses for “relationships”
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2021, 10:52:37 PM »
  Almost ALL comics have almost ALWAYS advocated for more social justice.  Race swapping heroes, retroactively making them gay,  and dramatically changing themes, and sacrificing quality for diversity hires is what is killing DC and Marvel.    what various other publishers are doing is not the point, just like making gay prom suddenly a central idea, it is the rapid jarring swapping out of direction.   I have no idea if this is long term good or bad for WOTC, vaping is very popular, but it is not for me.   WOTC has said to me, it is not for me.  I do not care if they succeed or fail, but they are treading a path where they will become something else, if that works out for them, I dont care.  If that makes them crash, I dont care.

This is what I don't understand about this puritan push in comics and RPGs.  Both have always been very progressive for their time.  It's when it moves from art to propaganda when it starts to feel not fun.  I can't tell you exactly where the line is but you really feel it when it crosses that Rubicon.

"Your imaginary elf is non-binary?  Fine whatever as long as it doesn't derail the game."
"Why does every village in this imaginary elf land have black folk and a higher than demographic representation of alphabet people?  Are these purse puppies?"

Captain America punching Hitler in the 1940s comics was both propaganda and plenty fun.