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Author Topic: Enjoy.  (Read 52831 times)

Zak S

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1005 on: September 26, 2022, 11:00:59 AM »

While deaddmwalking wants everyone to know very badly about his various emotions about me, all anyone who isn't deaddmwalking needs to know is that deaddmwalking is not an accurate source of information.

Here's the proof:

Just out of curiosity, why do you believe that "bullying people" is the same as "doing something wrong"?

Bullying people is one kind of doing something wrong.

Bullying is unfairly using power over someone to harm them. If you don't see that as bad that's weird but you do you.
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

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deadDMwalking

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Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1006 on: September 26, 2022, 12:24:28 PM »
Hey asshole, I think you used the wrong quote.  That's you talking to someone else. And as you like to say, that point was 'refuted'.

But we're on a new page, so once again, I feel compelled to explain why you're an asshole.  I'm going to put together a bunch of earlier responses to provide a full, easily accessible summary.

I'm firmly in the camp of 'you're an asshole'. I think you've proved it several times in this thread, and you've certainly proved it many other times and many other places.  But part of what makes you an asshole is that you like to demand that I go find multiple conversations and quote them here, then insist that I should have asked for clarification because you are not actually an asshole, and it's MY FAULT if I got that mistaken impression.

Well, we can have an epistemological argument about whether or not it is possible to 'know' whether you're an asshole, but that doesn't sound fun to me.  Instead, I'll just go on telling people that I've interacted with you before and I felt that you came across as an asshole.  I always hope that other people choose to make their own impressions without relying exclusively on my judgement, but if they're asking for an opinion, I'll certainly give them my honest opinion - which I know you're in support of because you made the claim earlier in this thread that speaking the truth is paramount.

I'm not Tubesock Army, or Geekybugle, or any number of other people that have called you an ass, but I did call you an ass and I don't feel that I've taken the appropriate amount of time to explain why you're an ass.

Now, for normal people with normal intelligence speaking their native language it's usually enough to point out when someone is doing something anti-social and say 'what an asshole' and everyone around with functioning normal intelligence can agree with the sentiment.

Saying an unpopular thing doesn't automatically make you an asshole.  Saying something rude also doesn't automatically make you an asshole.  But tone definitely matters - if you're extremely polite even when you're disagreeing with someone they probably WON'T call you an asshole.  So let's dive in - what, specifically, makes Zak S. an asshole - in fact - so much so that I'm willing to spend precious minutes of my life that I won't get back calling him one to his face?

I think the first thing is reciprocity. This is closely related to hypocrisy, but it's different enough that I want to unpack it.  Essentially, this means holding everyone around you to a different standard than you hold yourself.  For example, when someone tells you that the thing you said doesn't mean what you wanted it to mean, rather than admitting that your thought was anything less than perfectly formed you insist that they simply didn't understand it - you insist that they demand clarification after clarification.  However, when you disagree with someone, even if you fundamentally miss their position you will NOT ask for clarification and continue (for pages and pages) arguing against a position that nobody holds.

Of course, it's not just limited to demanding clarification.  The same also applies regarding standards of evidence.  You have asked for 'direct quotes' but not every interaction is based entirely on a verbal/written medium, nor is everything that occurs online always available for reference.  Even in a court of law (as you should NO DOUBT BE FAMILIAR BY NOW) witnesses can detail what they've seen as well as the inferences they made.  If asked whether the man walking down the street with a shotgun APPEARED hostile, a reasonable person could conclude that the act of walking with a loaded weapon pointed at bystanders meets that definition - you don't HAVE to be able to read the person's mind or attribute a direct quote of hostile intent to make the inference.  Since you're NOT a dummy (even though you ARE an asshole) you can't pretend that people, usually with high accuracy, can evaluate the demeanor and positions of those they interact with.

In this regard, having different criteria for 'accuracy' also applies.  In a conversation about granting bonuses to a specific skill I provided an exemplar of the type of argument that a player would use that was consistent with the types of things you said.  Did I expect that you would automatically grant a bonus in that specific situation?  Not really - it's a bit on the sexual assault side, so there's good reason to say no (even though a forced kiss is well-documented in TV Tropes and informs the source material for many D&D games).  A normal person would have said something like 'I do like to say yes, but that specific example would be offensive to my players, so that's not one I would grant.  Instead I would suggest something that the character COULD do that would be more acceptable to get that same bonus'.  But later you said that a 'bajillion' things could grant that bonus.  That's of course a figurative phrase.  Can you literally think of a million or a billion things that could grant a bonus (obviously excluding a kiss)?  Of course not.  But by your very strict definition, failure to provide a bajillion examples makes you a liar.

When you're condescending and rude, and you're called on it, and you double down and continue those behaviors, that makes you an asshole.  For myself, spending time with assholes is something I generally try to avoid.  I certainly never seek you out, Zak S.  But when you take the trouble to cross my path, coming to the places I hang out, and you ask why people think you're an asshole, I think you deserve an answer.  And because you make the lives of the people you interact with worse just by being you, I hope that me telling you that I think you're an asshole and I have reason for it makes your day just a little bit more unpleasant.  It would give me perverse pleasure knowing that you spent undue time stewing over people calling you mean names on the internet - not because I'm a troll but because of all the people I deal with regularly, you're the only one that I feel actually DESERVES it.

You're an asshole.

But you can always make the choice to stop.

Responding to a post is not the same as rebutting it.  No where in your response did you say that you treat people with reciprocity - effectively you did a combination of saying that I was wrong to come to the conclusions that I did and that I am the one lying.  Well, Karen, that's the thing - people who are assholes always feel that they're justified in the moment, but the reason people come to a consensus opinion is that some actions only become unreasonable as it impacts everyone else around them.  For example, ordering 150 venti white chocolate mochas (hot) from Starbucks is something that you absolutely can do.  But if you do it during the morning rush in the drive-thru and refuse to move from the window until your order is complete, people will call you an asshole.  Please understand, that is not saying that anyone did anything ILLEGAL, but it still makes you an asshole.  So why?  That brings us to the next point - consideration.

This is closely related to reciprocity - if you talk about treating people the way you want to be treated you probably are hitting both consideration and reciprocity.  But a lot of wise people say rather than treating people the way YOU want to be treated, you should treat people the way THEY want to be treated.  That's consideration in a nutshell.

As far as how you show a lack of consideration, it shows primarily when you try to tell people that they're wrong to hold an opinion. As someone that has managed people, I understand that rather than addressing ATTITUDE, it's best to focus on BEHAVIOR.  Telling Shark that it's weird he agreed with a post that I wrote after it had been 'answered' shows a lack of consideration.  Essentially, you're implying that his ability to come to reasonable positions based on data is suspect.  Telling people how they think or SHOULD THINK is a level of hubris that rises to the level of 'asshole' almost automatically.

And let's be clear - there are a lot of people that hold opinions that I think are crazy, stupid, and wrong.  I do spend time trying to provide evidence and cogent arguments in support of my positions - I want to convince people to accept my positions.  But I don't try to pretend that they're automatically idiots for holding a position different than my own.  Not only do they have other evidence that I have to review and engage with, they may value my evidence differently.

It's clear that you value your own words - you pretend that they're the final word on any subject - but not everyone else feels that way, nor should they.  There are people that will dismiss you because of your occupation, the quality of your artistic work, the cut of your hair - and that can feel unfair - but just because those people exist doesn't mean that everyone else is dismissing you shallow reasons.  Some people engage with you and your ideas, give them a fair chance, and still come to the conclusion that you're an asshole.  What's STRIKING is how many people like your artistic output and STILL think you're an asshole.  People are weird in that they'll go to great lengths to defend terrible people that produce works that they like - when even fans won't defend your behavior that should be a sign that you're well beyond what normal people accept as 'normal behavior'.

So for myself, I still think you're an asshole.  I hope you keep talking and responding, because the more you do, I think the more clear you make that for everyone else reading along.  That means less work for me trying to review conversations across dozens of pages that are impossible to easily quote and risk losing vital context.

Personally, I think asshole is more descriptive than dick.  Fortunately for me, I remain free to assert that I think you're an asshole; I remain free to assert that nothing you've said in this thread would even qualify as an attempt to convince me otherwise.  Being charitable, everything you've said really amounts to 'poisoning the well' - casting doubt on my ability to be honest and forthright thus casting doubt on my conclusions.  Of course, that can only work if I was trying to convince anyone else of anything.  I expect that other people will have come to the conclusion that you're an asshole, but not because of what I said.  I just want you, Zak S., to KNOW that I think you're an asshole.  Since you're so insistent that we're honest with each other, and withholding relevant information could be seen as lying, I just felt it was very important to make sure you knew how I feel.

You are toxic.  I, personally, am in a very good place.  As a result, I feel that I can address you without feeling demeaned or sullied by your well documented argumentative tells.  I'm would not be surprised if you would like to destroy me (or see me come to ruin) because of your spiteful and vengeful ways (see: asshole).  I get the feeling that you want to intimidate people from stating their opinions when you feel that they're negative.  You're probably much more familiar than I am with libel and slander.  But I feel confident that if giving a deposition in court I could make a credible argument that you act like an asshole and that someone that acts like an asshole is, in fact, an asshole.  While I might be mistaken, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people want to tell you that you're an asshole, but they don't want to deal with you and your scorched earth reactions after they do.  Whether those people exist or not, I'm willing to tell you what I think if for no other reason than it needs to be said.

I know that you've had conversations multiple times along these lines, and that the behavior hasn't changed.  I do want people to make up their own minds - just because I don't like you doesn't mean that you might not be someone else's best friend in the world - but I also think that people deserve a warning when someone's behavior rises to a level that can be dangerous to others.

My advice to anyone who happens on this thread is that they should avoid you, Zak S.  That's not a decision I want to make for them, but I think between us we've certainly given them enough reason to be cautious.  So, mission accomplished.

Zak S., you're an asshole because of consistency of behavior.  I make a lot of allowances for other people.  Sometimes someone acts like a jerk but they didn't mean to.  Everyone has a bad day.  Sometimes they legitimately weren't aware of your presence (like when they cut you off).  It's easy to describe that type of behavior as someone being an asshole.  But if we got a chance to know the person, walk a mile in their shoes, we might find that our initial impression was a mistake.  They might be a generally good person who either came off badly in a single exchange or were distracted by some serious shit and had a momentary lapse in manners.

You've asked me to quote you being an asshole (and I have), but one part of the challenge is that any individual statement might appear as misreading or representing tone.  Especially in a written medium, that can be a challenge.  A statement like 'is that what you're going to wear?' could be a legitimate question without any judgement perhaps to make sure you don't wear the same outfit or dress similarly.  But it could also be a diss making fun of someone's fashion sense.  How can one be sure?  Well, normally you can't be sure.  But when a behavior is repeated enough, and you're called on it over and over, you can be reasonably certain that someone is continuing that behavior because they're an asshole.

So it is with you.  You have been called out for being dismissive many times.  You have been called out for redefining terms to your advantage many times.  You have been called out for arguing one point then claiming to have been arguing the opposite the entire time and people should just ask you for clarification instead of disagreeing with you.  I have linked to these examples, but because it requires reading 40+ pages of comments to fully understand context it's not easy or reasonable to demand that someone show you the single comment that proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you're an asshole.

Fortunately, I don't need to do that.  When I call you an asshole, that's a statement of opinion.  You can claim that I'm not entitled to my opinion, or that my opinion is not based on sufficient evidence to meet your standards, but it is clear that your standards of what makes YOU as asshole are unreasonably high.  I expect that there is no standard of evidence that you'd agree to accept to accede that you are, in fact, an asshole.  And that's okay.  As much as I would like you to show even the smallest amount of self-reflection and personal improvement, you've also shown that you can't stand any criticism and are automatically defensive and resort to scorched earth attacks.

It's my belief that just about everyone that has interacted with you in places like this now sees that your 'argument' comes out to 'I know you are but what am I'.  Dealing with someone who responds in that way requires infinite patience or dropping it because there is no prospect of changing their mind - and of course it does nothing to deflect the accusation outside of a 3rd grade mentality.  But I think it's really important that you understand that I continue to think you're an asshole, I continue to provide descriptions of what I consider assholish behavior, I continue to show that you act in that manner, and I haven't kicked any dogs in the face (which wouldn't necessarily mean that I'm not right even if it does mean that I'm also an asshole), so it would be another example of you being an asshole if you try to respond by saying something to the effect of 'I've already responded to all your comments' (you haven't), or 'he's already proven that his comments mean nothing because he's a big meanie' (that's an opinion you can have for yourself, but not on behalf of the whole world).

Of course, rather than respond to any of this, you're going to contend that I'm a liar with no credibility.  As discussed previously, I think each reader is entitled to make that determination.  Even if I have said something inaccurate (open for interpretation), it doesn't mean that I can't be right.  So please, keep insisting that I'm a liar liar pants on fire - personally I think that reinforces my perception in the minds of others.  :) 
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Zak S

  • Just here to fact-check
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  • Fuck yr right wing bs
Re: Enjoy.
« Reply #1007 on: September 26, 2022, 12:30:10 PM »
To repeat, nothing deaddmwalking says should be taken seriously because he is a liar.

Here is the proof, he can't even keep his own lies straight:


I saw him bullying people

Quote
holding everyone around you to a different standard than you hold yourself.

Quote
You are toxic.

Quote
redefining terms to your advantage



Zak, I'm not claiming that you did something wrong. 
I won a jillion RPG design awards.

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