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Author Topic: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked  (Read 10162 times)

Pat
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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2020, 01:44:39 PM »
Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Very corrupt. Remember Whitewater? The main difference is the public ate up salacious rumors, and zoned out when it came to shady real estate transactions.
The Whitewater stuff was pretty arcane, although people got a lot more interested when Bernie Madoff's scheme fell apart.

Still, it kind of beggared reason that the Clintons could magically produce that kind of return on investment.
That's the problem with white collar crime: It's very hard to prove. But the number of politicians who become rich while in office raises eyebrows, and the voters should look askance. If someone makes $200K/year in salary, but their net worth grows by millions, tens of millions, or hundreds of millions while in office, we should stop reelecting them.

Ghostmaker

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2020, 01:50:28 PM »
Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Very corrupt. Remember Whitewater? The main difference is the public ate up salacious rumors, and zoned out when it came to shady real estate transactions.
The Whitewater stuff was pretty arcane, although people got a lot more interested when Bernie Madoff's scheme fell apart.

Still, it kind of beggared reason that the Clintons could magically produce that kind of return on investment.
That's the problem with white collar crime: It's very hard to prove. But the number of politicians who become rich while in office raises eyebrows, and the voters should look askance. If someone makes $200K/year in salary, but their net worth grows by millions, tens of millions, or hundreds of millions while in office, we should stop reelecting them.
I agree without reservation as far as politicians and net worth. While I'm all for 'be the best capitalist you can be', if you're in a position of political power, you weren't sent there to get rich.

Although I disagree about white collar crime being hard to prove. The problem is that the people who usually do the enforcement (in Madoff's case, the SEC) are not actually trained to look for the red flags. It took a forensic accountant about twenty minutes to figure out it was bullshit, and a few more hours to figure out how the scam was being run. Unfortunately, the SEC seems to be dominated by lawyers, not accountants.

Pat
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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2020, 06:21:19 PM »
That's the problem with white collar crime: It's very hard to prove. But the number of politicians who become rich while in office raises eyebrows, and the voters should look askance. If someone makes $200K/year in salary, but their net worth grows by millions, tens of millions, or hundreds of millions while in office, we should stop reelecting them.
I agree without reservation as far as politicians and net worth. While I'm all for 'be the best capitalist you can be', if you're in a position of political power, you weren't sent there to get rich.

Although I disagree about white collar crime being hard to prove. The problem is that the people who usually do the enforcement (in Madoff's case, the SEC) are not actually trained to look for the red flags. It took a forensic accountant about twenty minutes to figure out it was bullshit, and a few more hours to figure out how the scam was being run. Unfortunately, the SEC seems to be dominated by lawyers, not accountants.
That could very well be true about Madoff and the SEC, and having more accountants in key agencies would be a good step. And more generally it's also true that there's always been an asymmetry in expertise between white collar criminals and regulators, which makes it hard to catch those who commit the crimes. But it remains true that white collar crime, in general, is hard to prove. One of the classic examples is insider trading. Unless phone calls are being recorded, someone confesses, or someone says something stupid in an email, almost anything can be explained away as luck or market smarts. That contrasts with more typical crimes, where it's clear a crime was committed because something is missing, broken, or happened to someone.

jhkim

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2020, 06:29:50 PM »
I agree without reservation as far as politicians and net worth. While I'm all for 'be the best capitalist you can be', if you're in a position of political power, you weren't sent there to get rich.

Although I disagree about white collar crime being hard to prove. The problem is that the people who usually do the enforcement (in Madoff's case, the SEC) are not actually trained to look for the red flags. It took a forensic accountant about twenty minutes to figure out it was bullshit, and a few more hours to figure out how the scam was being run. Unfortunately, the SEC seems to be dominated by lawyers, not accountants.

My sister is a Finance PhD who works at the SEC. My second-hand impression is that they need a ton of lawyers because they are extremely limited in what sort of operations they can engage in. It sounds very frustrating to work there, and I am not impressed by what they have done - but it seems like they are hamstrung by what they are allowed to pursue and prosecute, not because they don't have the skills.

Pat
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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2020, 06:50:01 PM »
My sister is a Finance PhD who works at the SEC. My second-hand impression is that they need a ton of lawyers because they are extremely limited in what sort of operations they can engage in. It sounds very frustrating to work there, and I am not impressed by what they have done - but it seems like they are hamstrung by what they are allowed to pursue and prosecute, not because they don't have the skills.
Regulatory capture-type limitations? Because that's another issue with white collar crime -- the perpetrators tend to be very well connected, or are in positions of power.

jhkim

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2020, 07:16:06 PM »
My sister is a Finance PhD who works at the SEC. My second-hand impression is that they need a ton of lawyers because they are extremely limited in what sort of operations they can engage in. It sounds very frustrating to work there, and I am not impressed by what they have done - but it seems like they are hamstrung by what they are allowed to pursue and prosecute, not because they don't have the skills.
Regulatory capture-type limitations? Because that's another issue with white collar crime -- the perpetrators tend to be very well connected, or are in positions of power.

I don't know exactly. She's not allowed to talk in any detail about her work, so everything is more in impressions and reading some public articles.

Basically, my impression is that yes, the SEC doesn't actually go against those really in power. I can't speak to the internals about exactly why that is so, but it leaves me thinking that there need to be serious changes to give it real teeth. I just don't know who would do so.

For all his talk attacking Big Tech firms like Amazon and Facebook, it seems to me that Trump has done nothing to actually rein in Big Tech and other large corporations. The EU regulations on privacy seem to be the biggest concerns of theirs, but mostly they just look to keep growing more powerful. On the other hand, Democrats also have done little to constrain big corporations. The closest to a confrontation was Prop 22 in California that took on Uber and Lyft, but there the corporations won.

Shasarak

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2020, 08:47:26 PM »
Remember when the SEC found Bernie Madoff operating the worlds biggest ponzi scheme right under their nose?

Oh right, that never happened.
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Shasarak

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #112 on: November 30, 2020, 08:56:52 PM »
Why is it that left wing democrats always focus on what someone did wrong?  To the exclusion of everything else really.

Which reminds me that I have not seen you denouncing white supremacy.

You brought up other matters to distract from points you couldn't dispute. I have excluded nothing, and I look forward to the good things that a Biden administration will accomplish on many pressing matters.

Of course I never would dispute that people always complain about anyone, even Jesus Christ.  Its up to you to not listen to grifters trying to get another 12 silver shekels.


Quote
If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

If you really thought that then why did it take you so long?  Some would doubt your sincerity when you have to be called out before making wishy washy comments like how white supremacy is bad.  You did not even disavow Antifa.

No wonder this site has such a bad reputation.
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Ghostmaker

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2020, 09:56:42 PM »
Regulatory capture-type limitations? Because that's another issue with white collar crime -- the perpetrators tend to be very well connected, or are in positions of power.
Regulatory capture is one of the reasons why government influence into private business needs to be limited to actual legal issues (such as 'no machine-gunning your competitors', etc).

Remember when the SEC found Bernie Madoff operating the worlds biggest ponzi scheme right under their nose?

Oh right, that never happened.
Considering it had to be practically pointed out them with signal flares...

rawma

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2020, 11:54:09 PM »
If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

If you really thought that then why did it take you so long?  Some would doubt your sincerity when you have to be called out before making wishy washy comments like how white supremacy is bad.  You did not even disavow Antifa.

I haven't posted a lot of statements about things that are obviously true. That so many posters like you need to be told very obvious things is why this site has a bad reputation.

I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

Arkansan

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #115 on: December 01, 2020, 02:16:44 PM »
Clinton didn't get impeached for adultery. He got impeached for perjuring himself under oath.

Considering Bill Clinton's considerable charisma (the guy would've made a hell of a bard), it's entirely possible he could've brazened it out by straight up admitting to the affair.

I've never understood why he didn't do just that. The only thing I can think is that maybe he was afraid that being open about it might lend public credence to other allegations of sexual impropriety, namely you know.. rape.
That was my guess, to be honest. He had a LONG running reputation all the way back to his time as governor of Arkansas, and his wife routinely helped quiet down what they so charmingly called 'bimbo eruptions'.

Oh yeah. As an Arkansas native who is familiar with some of the characters involved, Bill's reputation for womanizing and not taking no for an answer were legendary long before he ran for president.

shuddemell

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #116 on: December 01, 2020, 02:58:46 PM »
For that matter, the Clinton's families corruption was legendary from his days as a governor... So there's that.
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Shasarak

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #117 on: December 01, 2020, 02:59:56 PM »
I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

That is true, not even one of them.
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jeff37923

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #118 on: December 01, 2020, 04:55:50 PM »
If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

If you really thought that then why did it take you so long?  Some would doubt your sincerity when you have to be called out before making wishy washy comments like how white supremacy is bad.  You did not even disavow Antifa.

I haven't posted a lot of statements about things that are obviously true. That so many posters like you need to be told very obvious things is why this site has a bad reputation.

I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

You don't get it, do you guys? rawma is sitting in front of a mirror typing one-handed while he furiously masturbates to the dream of a Leftist Narrative. It is a two-fisted ego stroke for him.
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Joey2k

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Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
« Reply #119 on: December 01, 2020, 05:06:19 PM »

I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

I keep seeing statistics stating that right wing white supremacists (even though those two things are not at all synonymous) are responsible for more terroristic violence than leftists. And I don't buy it at all.

Why?

If all this "right wing" violence was going on, with as far left as the media has become, they would be chomping at the bit to get it on the air in front of as many people as possible as often as possible to validate their fucked up world view. The fact that the stories are not showing up on the 6 o'clock news indicates that the stories are just not there.
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