TheRPGSite

Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: nobody on November 19, 2020, 04:45:10 PM

Title: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: nobody on November 19, 2020, 04:45:10 PM
https://www.newsweek.com/stacey-abrams-says-reason-republicans-are-so-mad-about-election-that-their-voter-suppression-1548765
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Mistwell on November 19, 2020, 08:10:45 PM
African Americans managed to be a lower percentage of the voters in Georgia this election than last election, and more African Americans voted Trump this time than last time there. Abrams is probably trying to deflect from that fact, as it was her job to get African Americans to vote, and to vote Biden in greater numbers. And given they had record turnout, they cannot blame suppression for those failures.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 20, 2020, 09:28:08 AM
Can't imagine why blacks wouldn't vote for a white guy and his non-African-American running mate, both of whom had a hand in putting so many blacks in prison over the years.

Whodathunkit.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jeff37923 on November 20, 2020, 10:15:28 AM
Can't imagine why blacks wouldn't vote for a white guy and his non-African-American running mate, both of whom had a hand in putting so many blacks in prison over the years.

Whodathunkit.

I think you misunderstand. According to narrative, Joe "If You Don't Vote For Me, Than You Ain't Black" Biden can only be voted for by blacks. Obviously, the ones who didn't vote democrat cannot therefore be black. We shall call them, these new formerly black but not anymore Americans, Non-Monolithic Voting Demographic African-Americans and ensure that leftists shun them appropriately.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: oggsmash on November 20, 2020, 01:10:47 PM
https://youtu.be/s2BEcggg1CU
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Manic Modron on November 20, 2020, 04:43:31 PM
Oh, this one isn't going to be pretty. 
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: moonsweeper on November 20, 2020, 06:42:06 PM
Damn.  Newsweek is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for their articles...
 
The title doesn't really have anything to do with the article.
 
The one quote is all that's there.
 
"It's important that we understand that voter suppression being stopped is why they are so mad," Abrams told The Cut's Rebecca Traister. "Republicans had a plan for stopping voters from getting to the polls. We beat them in multiple states and flipped the outcome. The margins are small because the outcome can be undone very quickly."
 
No anecdotes, evidence, or even any made-up examples of how Republicans were "stopping voters from getting to the polls."...just the quote.

Everything else in the article is just about the Fair Fight organization...

"We mitigated voter suppression across the country," Abrams said. "Voter suppression existed in '16; it existed in '18. But we had a voter-protection apparatus that covered the country through these battleground states: Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Nevada, Minnesota. The work done through Fair Fight to mitigate voter suppression got people to the polls. It's not the only thing, but it is a huge thing."

....so they mitigated voter suppression by doing what exactly?
 
Did they drive people to the polls or something??   ::)
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 21, 2020, 05:05:03 AM
Nobody always posts fun topics!

Let's not forget what white college liberals really think of black people.

Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Joey2k on November 21, 2020, 05:29:35 PM
Another drive-by shitpost from Nobody. Odds on whether he/she/ze actually comes back to post in their own thread?
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 21, 2020, 08:34:21 PM
Another drive-by shitpost from Nobody. Odds on whether he/she/ze actually comes back to post in their own thread?

No bet.

Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 21, 2020, 11:00:32 PM
....so they mitigated voter suppression by doing what exactly?

Here's what they are doing exactly:

1) Committing massive fraud on a laughable scale and believing they are above the law because their media lapdogs will scream waaaaaycism! and mysoggyknees! and "conspiwacy theorwee" at any attempt to uncover their crimes.

2) Mistaking Trump for a Republican.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 21, 2020, 11:36:40 PM
....so they mitigated voter suppression by doing what exactly?

Here's what they are doing exactly:

1) Committing massive fraud on a laughable scale and believing they are above the law because their media lapdogs will scream waaaaaycism! and mysoggyknees! and "conspiwacy theorwee" at any attempt to uncover their crimes.

2) Mistaking Trump for a Republican.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/65099688/looks-suspicious-got-any-proof-to-back-you-up.jpg)
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 22, 2020, 01:03:49 AM
Basic math. Nobody needs more than Intro to Statistics to see the fraud.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 01:11:56 AM
Basic math. Nobody needs more than Intro to Statistics to see the fraud.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/yall-got-any-2879e4b353.jpg)
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 22, 2020, 01:13:54 AM
Russian collusion for the 2016 election was totally believeable without evidence, but cheating at the 2020 election where a Democrat 'won' requires proof.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 01:22:37 AM
Russian collusion for the 2016 election was totally believeable without evidence, but cheating at the 2020 election where a Democrat 'won' requires proof.
I didn't accept that without proof either. I didn't get it then, and I don't expect I'll get it now. I think both of them were very likely bullshit (but I'm open to seeing real evidence for either).
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 22, 2020, 05:32:16 AM
Russian collusion for the 2016 election was totally believeable without evidence, but cheating at the 2020 election where a Democrat 'won' requires proof.
I didn't accept that without proof either. I didn't get it then, and I don't expect I'll get it now. I think both of them were very likely bullshit (but I'm open to seeing real evidence for either).

You're a rare bird, then. We've had to listen to four years of major Democrats like Hilary Clinton and the news and political commentators like Bill Maher bang on about how Trump's russian collusion was "obvious". I have no sympathy for the tables being turned now.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 22, 2020, 05:39:56 AM
And, just because it's amusing.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 09:11:55 AM
From the number of affidavits filed, it's looking like there may actually be substantial proof coming... we'll see what the next few days hold...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor_3588656.html?fbclid=IwAR0vrJ-Sln9OPpsET6d2B1Mtj95O-y1DuOasJxPy9xBOsB6HtE2-OfNMCck
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 11:02:51 AM
From the number of affidavits filed, it's looking like there may actually be substantial proof coming... we'll see what the next few days hold...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor_3588656.html?fbclid=IwAR0vrJ-Sln9OPpsET6d2B1Mtj95O-y1DuOasJxPy9xBOsB6HtE2-OfNMCck
Got a link to the same story from a site that doesn't require me to provide them with my info (I can't read it because I'm not providing it to them)? Even better, can you get the story from a source that doesn't do so abysmally poor on bias/fact checking?
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 22, 2020, 11:19:46 AM
From the number of affidavits filed, it's looking like there may actually be substantial proof coming... we'll see what the next few days hold...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor_3588656.html?fbclid=IwAR0vrJ-Sln9OPpsET6d2B1Mtj95O-y1DuOasJxPy9xBOsB6HtE2-OfNMCck

Greetings!

The Epoch Times is a great newspaper, Shuddemell! I love them.

They are not cock-sucking Liberals that love to get on their knees and suck down Marxist jello.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 11:55:36 AM
From the number of affidavits filed, it's looking like there may actually be substantial proof coming... we'll see what the next few days hold...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor_3588656.html?fbclid=IwAR0vrJ-Sln9OPpsET6d2B1Mtj95O-y1DuOasJxPy9xBOsB6HtE2-OfNMCck

Greetings!

The Epoch Times is a great newspaper, Shuddemell! I love them.

They are not cock-sucking Liberals that love to get on their knees and suck down Marxist jello.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Look there, Conspiracy Theory Nutters gotta show their love for the Epoch Times!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: The Spaniard on November 22, 2020, 12:50:24 PM
Another drive-by shitpost from Nobody. Odds on whether he/she/ze actually comes back to post in their own thread?
Nope, just a dump and run
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 01:18:12 PM
From the number of affidavits filed, it's looking like there may actually be substantial proof coming... we'll see what the next few days hold...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor_3588656.html?fbclid=IwAR0vrJ-Sln9OPpsET6d2B1Mtj95O-y1DuOasJxPy9xBOsB6HtE2-OfNMCck
Got a link to the same story from a site that doesn't require me to provide them with my info (I can't read it because I'm not providing it to them)? Even better, can you get the story from a source that doesn't do so abysmally poor on bias/fact checking?

Sure, here you go...

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/jake-tapper-stunned-after-chair-of-federal-election-commission-vouches-for-trumps-conspiracy-theorist-lawyer/

https://www.oann.com/fec-chairman-debunks-msm-claims-of-no-fraud-says-counting-illegal-votes-can-make-election-illegitimate/

https://neonnettle.com/news/13219-fec-chair-drops-the-hammer-the-results-are-illegitimate-

https://jamesfetzer.org/2020/11/fec-chairman-trump-campaign-bringing-legitimate-accusations-of-election-fraud-to-court/

https://trulytimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor.html


You won't like any of these sources either, they don't play to your biases. There is a reason that MSM is avoiding this story, it doesn't further their narrative (however the first link does show that MSM was exposed to it... and yet they still don't cover it). Doesn't mean these are false, just means that MSM is dishonest. How many quotes from the same person do you need? You are extremely prone to the genetic fallacy... you might realize at some point just how dishonest a tactic that is, but then again maybe not.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spike on November 22, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
I'd tell you all to stop feeding the obvious troll, but in order to do that I have to post in his thread and thus feed the damn troll...  this is what it means to be caught on the horns of a dilemma.

Besides, its goes against my ethics to tell people not to do things they enjoy, concensually and all that, even if I disapprove.  So I'll just sit here and scold you, and in a little while I'll tell you all to get off my damn lawn. Tut Tut.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 02:39:26 PM
From the number of affidavits filed, it's looking like there may actually be substantial proof coming... we'll see what the next few days hold...

https://www.theepochtimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor_3588656.html?fbclid=IwAR0vrJ-Sln9OPpsET6d2B1Mtj95O-y1DuOasJxPy9xBOsB6HtE2-OfNMCck
Got a link to the same story from a site that doesn't require me to provide them with my info (I can't read it because I'm not providing it to them)? Even better, can you get the story from a source that doesn't do so abysmally poor on bias/fact checking?

Sure, here you go...

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/jake-tapper-stunned-after-chair-of-federal-election-commission-vouches-for-trumps-conspiracy-theorist-lawyer/

https://www.oann.com/fec-chairman-debunks-msm-claims-of-no-fraud-says-counting-illegal-votes-can-make-election-illegitimate/

https://neonnettle.com/news/13219-fec-chair-drops-the-hammer-the-results-are-illegitimate-

https://jamesfetzer.org/2020/11/fec-chairman-trump-campaign-bringing-legitimate-accusations-of-election-fraud-to-court/

https://trulytimes.com/there-was-in-fact-fraud-that-took-place-fec-chairman-trey-trainor.html


You won't like any of these sources either, they don't play to your biases. There is a reason that MSM is avoiding this story, it doesn't further their narrative (however the first link does show that MSM was exposed to it... and yet they still don't cover it). Doesn't mean these are false, just means that MSM is dishonest. How many quotes from the same person do you need? You are extremely prone to the genetic fallacy... you might realize at some point just how dishonest a tactic that is, but then again maybe not.
I can at least read over these to look for verification from other sources. If you don't want your sources dismissed as crap, perhaps consider dropping the Neon Nettle, at the least.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 02:48:32 PM
Honestly, I don't care whether you accept them or not. I am just pointing out that it is highly disingenuous and an obvious fallacy to dismiss a fact due to the source. If you can find a source proving that Trey did not say that, then it's one thing. You however didn't (and likely cannot) because it is is easier just to cast aspersions than spend time honestly trying to determine whether or not it's accurate. I also sincerely doubt you can provide a source that cannot be picked apart (particularly in regards to bias). MSM has long proven themselves to be shameless and inveterate liars, so I am looking forward to you providing proof disproving the original article I posted. (as to neonnettle, I wouldn't normally use it anyway, don't read it. However, it is one among many... or is your "theory" that they have all colluded to lie about what the FEC Chair said?)
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 22, 2020, 02:49:03 PM
Russian collusion for the 2016 election was totally believeable without evidence, but cheating at the 2020 election where a Democrat 'won' requires proof.

To be fair to Happydaze, at least the Democrats had the decency to pay a foreign operative to create a fake dossier that they could then point to when asked for "proof"
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 03:10:45 PM
Honestly, I don't care whether you accept them or not. I am just pointing out that it is highly disingenuous and an obvious fallacy to dismiss a fact due to the source. If you can find a source proving that Trey did not say that, then it's one thing. You however didn't (and likely cannot) because it is is easier just to cast aspersions than spend time honestly trying to determine whether or not it's accurate. I also sincerely doubt you can provide a source that cannot be picked apart (particularly in regards to bias). MSM has long proven themselves to be shameless and inveterate liars, so I am looking forward to you providing proof disproving the original article I posted. (as to neonnettle, I wouldn't normally use it anyway, don't read it. However, it is one among many... or is your "theory" that they have all colluded to lie about what the FEC Chair said?)
We can start with https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/19/fact-check-fec-commissioner-has-no-role-election-integrity/6332242002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/19/fact-check-fec-commissioner-has-no-role-election-integrity/6332242002/) which, while center-left leaning in bias, does get high marks for accurate reporting.

It summarizes it as:

"The quotes from FEC Chair Trey Trainor are real and came from an interview with Newsmax. But he's not the "top boss of all the election officials," and the FEC's jurisdiction isn't related to vote counting or election security — only campaign finances. Trainor himself admitted he wasn't briefed on the issue, and all of his comments contained factual inaccuracies, echoing false allegations of election fraud that have been presented with no proof. Based on our research these claims are PARTLY FALSE, true only in that Trainor expressed his opinion about the election."

So the overall context matters a lot here. At best, Trainor's input is Obi-Wan style truth "from a certain point of view" rather than anything approaching objectivity. At worst, it's just more horseshit.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 03:17:25 PM
You're debunking things I never claimed, nor did the article. This is another highly disingenuous tactic used by MSM. "He did say it, but it doesn't mean what you think it means, and it certainly doesn't mean anything we don't want it to mean." Yes, context is important, but it isn't partly false at all, as a matter of fact the way the "fact check" is worded is an obvious attempt to muddy the water and change the context. If you actually read the article, you'd know they made no claims about him controlling or being top boss. I trust MSM fact checks about as much as you trust neon nettle. It's not partly false... what's partly false is USA Today implying that anyone made these claims.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 03:30:31 PM
You're debunking things I never claimed, nor did the article. This is another highly disingenuous tactic used by MSM. "He did say it, but it doesn't mean what you think it means, and it certainly doesn't mean anything we don't want it to mean." Yes, context is important, but it isn't partly false at all, as a matter of fact the way the "fact check" is worded is an obvious attempt to muddy the water and change the context. If you actually read the article, you'd know they made no claims about him controlling or being top boss. I trust MSM fact checks about as much as you trust neon nettle. It's not partly false... what's partly false is USA Today implying that anyone made these claims.
OK then, what is the value of Trey Trainor's statements? He's talking outside his lane on something he admits he hasn't been briefed on and his statements had inaccuracies. So, basically the big proof you propose is because this guy shared his opinion?
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 03:59:08 PM
You're debunking things I never claimed, nor did the article. This is another highly disingenuous tactic used by MSM. "He did say it, but it doesn't mean what you think it means, and it certainly doesn't mean anything we don't want it to mean." Yes, context is important, but it isn't partly false at all, as a matter of fact the way the "fact check" is worded is an obvious attempt to muddy the water and change the context. If you actually read the article, you'd know they made no claims about him controlling or being top boss. I trust MSM fact checks about as much as you trust neon nettle. It's not partly false... what's partly false is USA Today implying that anyone made these claims.
OK then, what is the value of Trey Trainor's statements? He's talking outside his lane on something he admits he hasn't been briefed on and his statements had inaccuracies. So, basically the big proof you propose is because this guy shared his opinion?

That's your supposition. My statement was that there MAY be big proof coming because of the immense number of affidavits filed. Secondly, I don't believe he is speaking completely outside his lane, I am pretty sure the chairman of the FEC has a good idea of what election fraud looks like, that is USA Today's and your take on it. I wouldn't take that statement alone as definitive proof of much other than something is definitely amiss for him to even make such a statement. Point out the actual inaccuracies that were claimed in the article I posted. They are deliberately vague (using other MSM as their fact checkers is laughable and is indicative of them just repeating the party line) about his supposed inaccuracies because they are changing the context to be able to call it PARTLY FALSE. They are debunking a completely different article than I posted (that other article may indeed be partly false, but it isn't what I posted, so immaterial). Once again, you are reading a lot into things without good cause.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 04:28:38 PM
Once again, you are reading a lot into things without good cause.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2ua9ox.jpg)
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on November 22, 2020, 04:29:26 PM
Once again, you are reading a lot into things without good cause.
(https://i.imgflip.com/2ua9ox.jpg)

Bwahahaha...

https://youtu.be/BodXwAYeTfM
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 22, 2020, 09:00:29 PM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: consolcwby on November 23, 2020, 12:23:47 AM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: myleftnut on November 23, 2020, 01:28:48 AM

 ;D
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jhkim on November 23, 2020, 02:05:26 AM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.

As Giuliani said in his introduction to last Thursday's press conference:

Quote
This is representative of our legal team. We're representing President Trump and we're representing the Trump campaign.  Sidney Powell and then Jenna Ellis will follow me and we will present, in brief, the evidence that we've collected over the last - I guess it is two weeks. Also Joseph DiGenova, Victoria Toensing here with me. There are a lot more lawyers working on this but we're the - I guess we're the senior lawyers.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZINzpFvBL4


You can listen for yourself what he says, unless you think that is a Youtube deep fake of him speaking. But the real question is, will anything come out of the crucial evidence that Powell supposedly has? What I would really like is if people would be willing to discuss the actual evidence of past claims, or stand by predictions of theirs. The should be some sort of falsifiability.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 02:20:04 AM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.

As Giuliani said in his introduction to last Thursday's press conference:

Quote
This is representative of our legal team. We're representing President Trump and we're representing the Trump campaign.  Sidney Powell and then Jenna Ellis will follow me and we will present, in brief, the evidence that we've collected over the last - I guess it is two weeks. Also Joseph DiGenova, Victoria Toensing here with me. There are a lot more lawyers working on this but we're the - I guess we're the senior lawyers.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZINzpFvBL4


You can listen for yourself what he says, unless you think that is a Youtube deep fake of him speaking. But the real question is, will anything come out of the crucial evidence that Powell supposedly has? What I would really like is if people would be willing to discuss the actual evidence of past claims, or stand by predictions of theirs. The should be some sort of falsifiability.
consolcwby is just stuck in "deny, deny, deny" mode with 110% concentration of Kool-Aid in the blood.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jeff37923 on November 23, 2020, 03:57:28 AM

consolcwby is just stuck in "deny, deny, deny" mode with 110% concentration of Kool-Aid in the blood.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 23, 2020, 08:26:17 AM
There were some issues involved with how legal fees and payments needed to be handled. I mean, we can't all just pay them under the table in Chinese cash like the Dems do.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: consolcwby on November 23, 2020, 10:02:46 PM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.

As Giuliani said in his introduction to last Thursday's press conference:

Quote
This is representative of our legal team. We're representing President Trump and we're representing the Trump campaign.  Sidney Powell and then Jenna Ellis will follow me and we will present, in brief, the evidence that we've collected over the last - I guess it is two weeks. Also Joseph DiGenova, Victoria Toensing here with me. There are a lot more lawyers working on this but we're the - I guess we're the senior lawyers.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZINzpFvBL4


You can listen for yourself what he says, unless you think that is a Youtube deep fake of him speaking. But the real question is, will anything come out of the crucial evidence that Powell supposedly has? What I would really like is if people would be willing to discuss the actual evidence of past claims, or stand by predictions of theirs. The should be some sort of falsifiability.
consolcwby is just stuck in "deny, deny, deny" mode with 110% concentration of Kool-Aid in the blood.
Here, READ this please: https://mailchi.mp/2270aefe51e4/statement-from-sidney-powell-to-we-the-people?e=3b0771afd3
                                        https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1330671677211029506

She is still the attorney of Michael Flynn. Remember him?...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/politics/michael-flynn-dismiss/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flynn-case-judge-issues-unusual-order-telling-government-to-certify-its-evidence-is-true-and-correct

wow what a bunch of idiots who do not know how hiring an attorney works or how transferance of evidence works! You see, the nice Judge in his case had questions about WHY she was in contact with the Whitehouse - now you know. ::)
But. please don't use your brains! (It may make you dangerous or actually make you realize MURDER OF YOUR NEIGHBORS is a no-no)
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 23, 2020, 10:09:22 PM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.

As Giuliani said in his introduction to last Thursday's press conference:

Quote
This is representative of our legal team. We're representing President Trump and we're representing the Trump campaign.  Sidney Powell and then Jenna Ellis will follow me and we will present, in brief, the evidence that we've collected over the last - I guess it is two weeks. Also Joseph DiGenova, Victoria Toensing here with me. There are a lot more lawyers working on this but we're the - I guess we're the senior lawyers.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZINzpFvBL4


You can listen for yourself what he says, unless you think that is a Youtube deep fake of him speaking. But the real question is, will anything come out of the crucial evidence that Powell supposedly has? What I would really like is if people would be willing to discuss the actual evidence of past claims, or stand by predictions of theirs. The should be some sort of falsifiability.
consolcwby is just stuck in "deny, deny, deny" mode with 110% concentration of Kool-Aid in the blood.
Here, READ this please: https://mailchi.mp/2270aefe51e4/statement-from-sidney-powell-to-we-the-people?e=3b0771afd3
                                        https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1330671677211029506

She is still the attorney of Michael Flynn. Remember him?...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/24/politics/michael-flynn-dismiss/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/flynn-case-judge-issues-unusual-order-telling-government-to-certify-its-evidence-is-true-and-correct

wow what a bunch of idiots who do not know how hiring an attorney works or how transferance of evidence works! You see, the nice Judge in his case had questions about WHY she was in contact with the Whitehouse - now you know. ::)
But. please don't use your brains! (It may make you dangerous or actually make you realize MURDER OF YOUR NEIGHBORS is a no-no)
She spins your head right round, right round
When you go down, when you go down down
She spins your head right round, right round
When you go down, when you go down down
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jhkim on November 24, 2020, 12:09:48 AM
As Giuliani said in his introduction to last Thursday's press conference:

Quote
This is representative of our legal team. We're representing President Trump and we're representing the Trump campaign.  Sidney Powell and then Jenna Ellis will follow me and we will present, in brief, the evidence that we've collected over the last - I guess it is two weeks. Also Joseph DiGenova, Victoria Toensing here with me. There are a lot more lawyers working on this but we're the - I guess we're the senior lawyers.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZINzpFvBL4
Here, READ this please: https://mailchi.mp/2270aefe51e4/statement-from-sidney-powell-to-we-the-people?e=3b0771afd3
                                        https://twitter.com/GenFlynn/status/1330671677211029506

So what I read is, Giuliani introduced her last Thursday as one of the senior lawyers representing Trump. Then Giuliani posts that she is not a part of the team. And following that, Powell herself claims that she was never part of the team. I have no idea what legal payments have or have not happened behind the scenes. But what I would watch for is:

(1) Will Powell ever appear alongside Giuliani and other Trump lawyers the way she did last Thursday?
(2) Will the White House otherwise continue to officially promote her claims?
(3) Will those claims will stand up in court?

It seems to me that the White House is currently disavowing itself from Powell, so I'd suspect that these will all turn out "no". I could be proven wrong, and if so, then my bad. Here's Rush Limbaugh discussing it:

Quote
You know, there's all kinds of speculation about what's going on with Sidney Powell. Was she ever really a member of the team? It appears that she was.

Quote
I talked to so many people who were blown away by it, by the very nature of the press conference. They promised blockbuster stuff, and then nothing happened. And that's just not good. I mean, if you're gonna promise blockbuster stuff like that, then there has -- now, I understand -- look, I'm the one that's been telling everybody, this stuff doesn't happen at warp speed, light speed the way cases are made for presentation in court, but if you're gonna do a press conference like that with the promise of blockbusters, then there has to be something more than what that press conference delivered.

Source: https://wiba.iheart.com/featured/rush-limbaugh/content/2020-11-23-pn-rush-limbaugh-the-trump-legal-team-better-deliver-the-bombshell-evidence-fast/

But I guess that just shows Rush Limbaugh is now a puppet of the mainstream media delivering their message.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 24, 2020, 12:13:10 AM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1327811527123103746

Quote
I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defend OUR RIGHT to FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS! Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team, added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives!

So she was a member of the team until she was never a member of the team.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2020, 06:08:55 AM
Sidney Powell is on the outs with Trump now? Let's see who's next!
Wow. You really can't be this stupid, can you? ::) She was never a Trump Attorney. She is Michael Flynn's attorney who had come into evidence and transferred it to the ACTUAL attorneys. Sigh. Stay away from the MSM FUD, dude.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1327811527123103746

Quote
I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defend OUR RIGHT to FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS! Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, Sidney Powell, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team, added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives!

So she was a member of the team until she was never a member of the team.
Exactly the kind of 1984 thing that the conspiracy theorists here love to rant about...except this time it's their hero the Trumplander doing it.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 24, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
Exactly the kind of 1984 thing that the conspiracy theorists here love to rant about...except this time it's their hero the Trumplander doing it.

I know this is probably too long ago for you to remember but "You're Fired" is kind of Trumps thing.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 06:49:17 PM
As I posted in another thread, its not rocket science why Sidney isn't part of Trump's campaign legal team anymore.

Trump ran as a Republican. Thus his campaign is part of the Republican apparatus. Just like Biden's campaign is part of the Democrat apparatus. Even though campaigns have certain separations from the party apparatus, there's plenty of deep and fundamental ties between the campaign and the party.

Sidney claims she's got evidence against members of BOTH parties, and she claims she is going to tear new assholes into every guilty party. Lin Wood has been saying the same. Thus, she could NOT be part of Trump's team while she's aiming at Republicans.

But while everyone can guess at what her Kraken evidence might be, we will know nothing until she files her lawsuits.

My stance has been and continues to be that Sidney Powell has been a deadly serious litigator and prosecutor who throws down extremely hard. It makes no sense for her to go Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs now and destroy her hard won reputation. However, I do not have access to her evidence against Dominion so I can't vouch for her claims. But I also don't need her evidence to see the 2020 election is rampant with obvious fraud. The math doesn't lie. Basic statistics didn't magically become unproven theories on November 3rd.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 24, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
Exactly the kind of 1984 thing that the conspiracy theorists here love to rant about...except this time it's their hero the Trumplander doing it.

I know this is probably too long ago for you to remember but "You're Fired" is kind of Trumps thing.

As President, he's been fairly indirect about firing people. And even after someone leaves who might reflect badly on Trump, it's more often "I never met that person, or they were just a coffee boy, despite scads of photos and videos of me closely associating with that person, tweets endorsing them, and press releases describing them as one of my important team members."

The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records. (In fairness to Orwell, Trump hasn't demonstrated that not doing so succeeds much, as he's a one-term impeached president who never won the popular vote. And we don't yet know how much shredding has gone on over the past few weeks.)

Sidney claims she's got evidence against members of BOTH parties, and she claims she is going to tear new assholes into every guilty party. Lin Wood has been saying the same. Thus, she could NOT be part of Trump's team while she's aiming at Republicans.

Trump has never aimed at Republicans? And would never tolerate that from his team? LOL.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 24, 2020, 08:03:06 PM
Exactly the kind of 1984 thing that the conspiracy theorists here love to rant about...except this time it's their hero the Trumplander doing it.

I know this is probably too long ago for you to remember but "You're Fired" is kind of Trumps thing.

As President, he's been fairly indirect about firing people. And even after someone leaves who might reflect badly on Trump, it's more often "I never met that person, or they were just a coffee boy, despite scads of photos and videos of me closely associating with that person, tweets endorsing them, and press releases describing them as one of my important team members."

It is really weird how, after having to fire someone and them showing their true colours by trying to cash in writing a "Tell all" book about how crazy you are, you have to disavow knowing them.

I can not figure out why anyone would do that?   :o
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 24, 2020, 08:10:24 PM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.



Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2020, 08:51:28 PM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 24, 2020, 09:38:10 PM
See, not so different.

Ah, I see you have met Politicians!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 10:00:59 PM
Trump has never aimed at Republicans? And would never tolerate that from his team? LOL.

As President, has Trump ever initiated legal action against a Republican? He's fired plenty and should have fired many more, and never hired most of them.

It's not whether Trump "would tolerate that from his team", it's that campaigns and parties are intertwined with staff and loyalties and money. That goes for any campaign with either party.

Thus, if you are going to launch legal actions against fellow Republicans, it can't be done from under the campaign umbrellas because of staff + loyalties + money.

As Sidney Powell and Lin Wood are acting independently, they are free to choose their own staff without any party concerns and without any concerns about salaries and expenses being tied to the Republican party.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 10:03:10 PM
When Trump launches his news channel, I demand a nightly segment by Randy Quaid! And he must use a Christmas strobe light to emphasize how sane his message is to the American people.



Best comment I saw: "I think Santa ate the elves and Mrs. Claus"
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Spinachcat on November 24, 2020, 10:15:25 PM
See, not so different.

That's EXACTLY why voter fraud and election rigging is such a major issue. There is NO reason it can't happen to your candidate next time. This is why election security should be a bipartisan issue.

Bernie packed auditoriums while Hillary and Biden couldn't fill a gym, yet Bernie somehow lost both primaries...and funnily, now we are hearing rumors that Dominion was operating during the primaries.

What happens when the Bernie Bros go from suspecting Bernie was fucked over to having proof their Dear Comrade was scammed by the DNC?
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2020, 10:40:52 PM
See, not so different.

That's EXACTLY why voter fraud and election rigging is such a major issue. There is NO reason it can't happen to your candidate next time. This is why election security should be a bipartisan issue.

So you no longer believe it happened this time?
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 24, 2020, 10:56:06 PM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.

The funny part is that you seem to think I hadn't considered the reverse position.

So, are we on the same page? Both parties, and the entire government edifice is rotten to the core. Biden is no better or worse than Trump. The physical conficts over partisan issues are going to inexorably escalate, because everyone thinks they're on the "Right side of history".
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 24, 2020, 11:32:51 PM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.

The funny part is that you seem to think I hadn't considered the reverse position.

So, are we on the same page? Both parties, and the entire government edifice is rotten to the core. Biden is no better or worse than Trump. The physical conficts over partisan issues are going to inexorably escalate, because everyone thinks they're on the "Right side of history".
I'll agree that both parties are shit and that the new boss is the same as the old boss. However, I still hold out hope that there might be an alternative to idiotic levels of escalations between the parties (unfortunately, this probably requires the "distraction" provided by a significant external threat).
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 24, 2020, 11:48:07 PM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.

The funny part is that you seem to think I hadn't considered the reverse position.

So, are we on the same page? Both parties, and the entire government edifice is rotten to the core. Biden is no better or worse than Trump. The physical conficts over partisan issues are going to inexorably escalate, because everyone thinks they're on the "Right side of history".

Greetings!

I certainly agree that there is plenty of corruption, greed, and cock-sucking to go around both parties--however, to insist that "Biden is no better or no worse than Trump"--I think is entirely wrong and misguided, if not even disingenuous.

Biden is in league with Communists. He is allied with, and beholden to the Communist scum that have filled the Democrat Party. AOC, Bernie Sanders, Buttigieg, Beto O'Roarke--all are in favour of Marxist tyranny.

That salient fact alone makes him infinitely worse than President Trump. There just is no comparison whatsoever. The mushy middle=of-the-roaders that like to just throw their hands up and claim, "Oh, all the politicians are just the same and equally terrible" is simply wrong and making gross moral equivalencies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 25, 2020, 01:02:35 AM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.

The funny part is that you seem to think I hadn't considered the reverse position.

So, are we on the same page? Both parties, and the entire government edifice is rotten to the core. Biden is no better or worse than Trump. The physical conficts over partisan issues are going to inexorably escalate, because everyone thinks they're on the "Right side of history".

Greetings!

I certainly agree that there is plenty of corruption, greed, and cock-sucking to go around both parties--however, to insist that "Biden is no better or no worse than Trump"--I think is entirely wrong and misguided, if not even disingenuous.

Biden is in league with Communists. He is allied with, and beholden to the Communist scum that have filled the Democrat Party. AOC, Bernie Sanders, Buttigieg, Beto O'Roarke--all are in favour of Marxist tyranny.

That salient fact alone makes him infinitely worse than President Trump. There just is no comparison whatsoever. The mushy middle=of-the-roaders that like to just throw their hands up and claim, "Oh, all the politicians are just the same and equally terrible" is simply wrong and making gross moral equivalencies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Did you miss the point of my post? According to the other side, you're a neo-fascist nazi authoritarian who wants to enslave women to baby-making and execute the gays for making you feel funny down there.

I strongly dislike Communism and Socialism and I think the approach leads to the tragedy of unintended concequences. I'm not above using a bit of hyperbole to drive home that point.

But when we're all commie scum or nazi scum, there's no room for discussion. We need to figure out how to de-escalate and have that discussion, and tell the media and the politicians to go stuff themselves for stoking the fires for their political and financial gains.

Trump is a populist. I like many of the things he accomplished in office. And I like that he was a finger in the eye of the establishment. But he rode to power on the same fuel that all the other politicans use. The one thing he did differently is to address the vast throng of the middle class. And that's something I hope both sides learn from his Presidency.

Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: moonsweeper on November 25, 2020, 01:49:07 AM
Trump is a populist. I like many of the things he accomplished in office. And I like that he was a finger in the eye of the establishment. But he rode to power on the same fuel that all the other politicans use. The one thing he did differently is to address the vast throng of the middle class. And that's something I hope both sides learn from his Presidency.

Not a chance of that happening.  Why do you think the uniparty establishment has attacked him ceaselessly since Day 1...Because they cannot have anyone who is not bought and paid for by them helping out what is left of the middle class.

Take mistwell for example.  He claims to be some sort of right-leaning Republican who had to hold his nose and vote for Biden...kind of like all of W's cabinet.  Has anyone asked him or seen him tell us which policies of Trump's he found so awful?

Was it
A) Actually giving the lower and middle class a significant tax cut?
B) Renegotiating trade deals in a way that favored the lower and middle class workers?
C) Trying to secure the US border, which helps the lower and middle class jobs/income-wise?
D) Winding down/not starting more endless ME wars, which benefits the lower/middle class whose kids account for most of the troops?
E) All of the above, because I see a fucking pattern...
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 25, 2020, 01:59:41 AM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.

The funny part is that you seem to think I hadn't considered the reverse position.

So, are we on the same page? Both parties, and the entire government edifice is rotten to the core. Biden is no better or worse than Trump. The physical conficts over partisan issues are going to inexorably escalate, because everyone thinks they're on the "Right side of history".

Greetings!

I certainly agree that there is plenty of corruption, greed, and cock-sucking to go around both parties--however, to insist that "Biden is no better or no worse than Trump"--I think is entirely wrong and misguided, if not even disingenuous.

Biden is in league with Communists. He is allied with, and beholden to the Communist scum that have filled the Democrat Party. AOC, Bernie Sanders, Buttigieg, Beto O'Roarke--all are in favour of Marxist tyranny.

That salient fact alone makes him infinitely worse than President Trump. There just is no comparison whatsoever. The mushy middle=of-the-roaders that like to just throw their hands up and claim, "Oh, all the politicians are just the same and equally terrible" is simply wrong and making gross moral equivalencies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Did you miss the point of my post? According to the other side, you're a neo-fascist nazi authoritarian who wants to enslave women to baby-making and execute the gays for making you feel funny down there.

I strongly dislike Communism and Socialism and I think the approach leads to the tragedy of unintended concequences. I'm not above using a bit of hyperbole to drive home that point.

But when we're all commie scum or nazi scum, there's no room for discussion. We need to figure out how to de-escalate and have that discussion, and tell the media and the politicians to go stuff themselves for stoking the fires for their political and financial gains.

Trump is a populist. I like many of the things he accomplished in office. And I like that he was a finger in the eye of the establishment. But he rode to power on the same fuel that all the other politicans use. The one thing he did differently is to address the vast throng of the middle class. And that's something I hope both sides learn from his Presidency.

Greetings!

Good points, Ratman. I agree. I see what you meant now.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: HappyDaze on November 25, 2020, 06:38:05 AM
The thing Orwell maybe got wrong? That there would be any need to actually change or hide the contradictory records.

It's been amazing to see the Democrats and the media blatantly swing from being suspicious of the election in 2016, to supporting the results in 2020, when the results were more to their liking, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

https://twitter.com/mynbc15/status/801610035738673152

The dissoulution of my opinion of the Democrat party is complete. I have no love for the Republicans, but I can't call the Democrats the lesser of two evils now.
It's been amazing to see the Republicans and the right-wing media blatantly swing from being supportive of the election in 2016, when the results were more to their liking, to being suspicious of the results in 2020, and on the exact same topics, or very similar topics.

The disoulution of my opinion of the Republican party is complete. I have no love for the Democrats, but I can't call the Republicans the lesser of two evils now.


See, not so different.

The funny part is that you seem to think I hadn't considered the reverse position.

So, are we on the same page? Both parties, and the entire government edifice is rotten to the core. Biden is no better or worse than Trump. The physical conficts over partisan issues are going to inexorably escalate, because everyone thinks they're on the "Right side of history".

Greetings!

I certainly agree that there is plenty of corruption, greed, and cock-sucking to go around both parties--however, to insist that "Biden is no better or no worse than Trump"--I think is entirely wrong and misguided, if not even disingenuous.

Biden is in league with Communists. He is allied with, and beholden to the Communist scum that have filled the Democrat Party. AOC, Bernie Sanders, Buttigieg, Beto O'Roarke--all are in favour of Marxist tyranny.

That salient fact alone makes him infinitely worse than President Trump. There just is no comparison whatsoever. The mushy middle=of-the-roaders that like to just throw their hands up and claim, "Oh, all the politicians are just the same and equally terrible" is simply wrong and making gross moral equivalencies.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Did you miss the point of my post? According to the other side, you're a neo-fascist nazi authoritarian who wants to enslave women to baby-making and execute the gays for making you feel funny down there.

I strongly dislike Communism and Socialism and I think the approach leads to the tragedy of unintended concequences. I'm not above using a bit of hyperbole to drive home that point.

But when we're all commie scum or nazi scum, there's no room for discussion. We need to figure out how to de-escalate and have that discussion, and tell the media and the politicians to go stuff themselves for stoking the fires for their political and financial gains.

Trump is a populist. I like many of the things he accomplished in office. And I like that he was a finger in the eye of the establishment. But he rode to power on the same fuel that all the other politicans use. The one thing he did differently is to address the vast throng of the middle class. And that's something I hope both sides learn from his Presidency.

Greetings!

Good points, Ratman. I agree. I see what you meant now.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Holy shit! SHARK and I both agree on something!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Snowman0147 on November 25, 2020, 08:44:31 AM

Was it
A) Actually giving the lower and middle class a significant tax cut?
B) Renegotiating trade deals in a way that favored the lower and middle class workers?
C) Trying to secure the US border, which helps the lower and middle class jobs/income-wise?
D) Winding down/not starting more endless ME wars, which benefits the lower/middle class whose kids account for most of the troops?
E) All of the above, because I see a fucking pattern...

Fairly good questions and yes I do see a pattern.  That is why I among the 70 million that voted for Trump for his second term.  It is among the reasons why I voted for Trump for his first term too.  TRUMP ACTUALLY GAVE A SHIT. 

Biden will go back to policies that will suck for the majority of Americans.  He will start wars and the dumb fucks that voted for him will beg for the return of Trump.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: tenbones on November 25, 2020, 12:03:04 PM
Biden gives a shit.

He's going to give it to us all. But I think lots of politicians are into that.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 25, 2020, 12:14:36 PM
It is really weird how, after having to fire someone and them showing their true colours by trying to cash in writing a "Tell all" book about how crazy you are, you have to disavow knowing them.

I can not figure out why anyone would do that?   :o

Yes, I certainly understand why someone would try to discredit witnesses to their misdeeds. Trump has disavowed even ones who have stuck by him, like George Papadopolous (the coffee boy).

People who haven't done anything wrong and who can admit mistakes don't have to pretend they don't know past associates and underlings who turned out to be crooked or incompetent. I leave it to you to decide whether Trump has done something wrong or can't admit mistakes (spoiler: it's both).
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 25, 2020, 12:21:16 PM
Trump has never aimed at Republicans? And would never tolerate that from his team? LOL.

As President, has Trump ever initiated legal action against a Republican?

You have a very narrow view of aiming at Republicans, but some of Rudy's legal actions have implicated Republican state officials.

Trump distanced from Powell because she's crazy, and the only crazy he wants is Coup Coup for Cocoa Puffs.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 25, 2020, 02:49:47 PM
It is really weird how, after having to fire someone and them showing their true colours by trying to cash in writing a "Tell all" book about how crazy you are, you have to disavow knowing them.

I can not figure out why anyone would do that?   :o

Yes, I certainly understand why someone would try to discredit witnesses to their misdeeds. Trump has disavowed even ones who have stuck by him, like George Papadopolous (the coffee boy).

People who haven't done anything wrong and who can admit mistakes don't have to pretend they don't know past associates and underlings who turned out to be crooked or incompetent. I leave it to you to decide whether Trump has done something wrong or can't admit mistakes (spoiler: it's both).

Tell me, who is this magical person who has never done anything wrong?

Come on, pics or it never happened!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 25, 2020, 05:50:16 PM
Yeah, y'know...

Liberal fucknuggets lost any right to bitch about 'morality' or 'ethics' in a President when they pushed Bill 'Super Cigar' Clinton into the White House.

Even when people were pointing out he was a philandering creep who couldn't keep it in his pants and relied on his grifting wife and her flunkies to keep his trysts quiet.

So yeah, we're not impressed when people snivel about whatever perceived failings Trump has. Because a lot of it is projection.

And before some fucknugget brings up Stormy Daniels; how'd that lawsuit turn out again? Oh yeah -- he won.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 25, 2020, 06:33:54 PM
Yeah, y'know...

Liberal fucknuggets lost any right to bitch about 'morality' or 'ethics' in a President when they pushed Bill 'Super Cigar' Clinton into the White House.

Even when people were pointing out he was a philandering creep who couldn't keep it in his pants and relied on his grifting wife and her flunkies to keep his trysts quiet.

So yeah, we're not impressed when people snivel about whatever perceived failings Trump has. Because a lot of it is projection.

And before some fucknugget brings up Stormy Daniels; how'd that lawsuit turn out again? Oh yeah -- he won.

The past four years have been a hilarious game of "spaghetti fight". The Dems threw everything and the kitchen sink at Trump, and he is still going to finish his term.
Nothing stuck, because the Dems are relying on the same old play book, and it's gotten old and predictable. Yeah, they're going to call people an ist and a phobe and a nazi white supremacist. That's what they do to everyone they disagree with.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: consolcwby on November 25, 2020, 08:00:29 PM
Yeah, y'know...

Liberal fucknuggets lost any right to bitch about 'morality' or 'ethics' in a President when they pushed Bill 'Super Cigar' Clinton into the White House.

Even when people were pointing out he was a philandering creep who couldn't keep it in his pants and relied on his grifting wife and her flunkies to keep his trysts quiet.

So yeah, we're not impressed when people snivel about whatever perceived failings Trump has. Because a lot of it is projection.

And before some fucknugget brings up Stormy Daniels; how'd that lawsuit turn out again? Oh yeah -- he won.

The past four years have been a hilarious game of "spaghetti fight". The Dems threw everything and the kitchen sink at Trump, and he is still going to finish his term.
Nothing stuck, because the Dems are relying on the same old play book, and it's gotten old and predictable. Yeah, they're going to call people an ist and a phobe and a nazi white supremacist. That's what they do to everyone they disagree with.
No. There is a next step, and it involves more gaslighting - the plan is simple: Anyone who disagrees with them will be arrested under terrorism laws. This includes both evangelists, Jews, outspoken blacks, and the like. They HAVE to have this done before 2026. All we've seen so far is the warm-up. They are not liberals by definition - they are MURDEROUS LIBERTINES who are hellbent on creating a new holocaust. This includes LGBT+ people, btw. What they needed was a balkanization of the United States and running Trump vs Clinton got them there. The problem with most people here is they only think what they are taught. Not for themselves. The election, the reset, the roundups, and the eventual war will lead to the utter destruction of ALL FREEDOMS. This is not theory, nor a joke. Can anyone here tell me WHY it is necessary to have those who annoy you, or that you disagree with IMPRISONED OR MURDERED? Or their families? Or their children?

I do not understand 90% of ANY of you! Unbelievable!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ratman_tf on November 25, 2020, 09:02:17 PM
Yeah, y'know...

Liberal fucknuggets lost any right to bitch about 'morality' or 'ethics' in a President when they pushed Bill 'Super Cigar' Clinton into the White House.

Even when people were pointing out he was a philandering creep who couldn't keep it in his pants and relied on his grifting wife and her flunkies to keep his trysts quiet.

So yeah, we're not impressed when people snivel about whatever perceived failings Trump has. Because a lot of it is projection.

And before some fucknugget brings up Stormy Daniels; how'd that lawsuit turn out again? Oh yeah -- he won.

The past four years have been a hilarious game of "spaghetti fight". The Dems threw everything and the kitchen sink at Trump, and he is still going to finish his term.
Nothing stuck, because the Dems are relying on the same old play book, and it's gotten old and predictable. Yeah, they're going to call people an ist and a phobe and a nazi white supremacist. That's what they do to everyone they disagree with.
No. There is a next step, and it involves more gaslighting - the plan is simple: Anyone who disagrees with them will be arrested under terrorism laws. This includes both evangelists, Jews, outspoken blacks, and the like. They HAVE to have this done before 2026. All we've seen so far is the warm-up. They are not liberals by definition - they are MURDEROUS LIBERTINES who are hellbent on creating a new holocaust. This includes LGBT+ people, btw. What they needed was a balkanization of the United States and running Trump vs Clinton got them there. The problem with most people here is they only think what they are taught. Not for themselves. The election, the reset, the roundups, and the eventual war will lead to the utter destruction of ALL FREEDOMS. This is not theory, nor a joke. Can anyone here tell me WHY it is necessary to have those who annoy you, or that you disagree with IMPRISONED OR MURDERED? Or their families? Or their children?

I do not understand 90% of ANY of you! Unbelievable!

For the sake of argument, let's say your predictions are accurate. What do you think should be done about it?
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 25, 2020, 11:23:52 PM
For the sake of argument, let's say your predictions are accurate. What do you think should be done about it?

Personally I dont think balkanization would even work because you are not fighting people you are fighting ideas that are not stopped by borders.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: consolcwby on November 26, 2020, 12:09:43 AM
Yeah, y'know...

Liberal fucknuggets lost any right to bitch about 'morality' or 'ethics' in a President when they pushed Bill 'Super Cigar' Clinton into the White House.

Even when people were pointing out he was a philandering creep who couldn't keep it in his pants and relied on his grifting wife and her flunkies to keep his trysts quiet.

So yeah, we're not impressed when people snivel about whatever perceived failings Trump has. Because a lot of it is projection.

And before some fucknugget brings up Stormy Daniels; how'd that lawsuit turn out again? Oh yeah -- he won.

The past four years have been a hilarious game of "spaghetti fight". The Dems threw everything and the kitchen sink at Trump, and he is still going to finish his term.
Nothing stuck, because the Dems are relying on the same old play book, and it's gotten old and predictable. Yeah, they're going to call people an ist and a phobe and a nazi white supremacist. That's what they do to everyone they disagree with.
No. There is a next step, and it involves more gaslighting - the plan is simple: Anyone who disagrees with them will be arrested under terrorism laws. This includes both evangelists, Jews, outspoken blacks, and the like. They HAVE to have this done before 2026. All we've seen so far is the warm-up. They are not liberals by definition - they are MURDEROUS LIBERTINES who are hellbent on creating a new holocaust. This includes LGBT+ people, btw. What they needed was a balkanization of the United States and running Trump vs Clinton got them there. The problem with most people here is they only think what they are taught. Not for themselves. The election, the reset, the roundups, and the eventual war will lead to the utter destruction of ALL FREEDOMS. This is not theory, nor a joke. Can anyone here tell me WHY it is necessary to have those who annoy you, or that you disagree with IMPRISONED OR MURDERED? Or their families? Or their children?

I do not understand 90% of ANY of you! Unbelievable!

For the sake of argument, let's say your predictions are accurate. What do you think should be done about it?
Well, as unfortunate as it sounds, the only way to go forward is to go back - meaning, people have to be reminded of what you wish for others will also fall upon yourself. I admit, the churches - whose job it is to be the keepers of this in society - have failed. As have educators, as well as most of the institutions. For many people,  they believe the left is about caring for humanity, the environment, and the world. Yet no one will look at what actions they have been taking. The left must be convinced that they have swallowed a lie - and I mean it's a huge lie - and get them back to what made them attracted to the left in the first place (meaning the caring bit). In a nutshell, the lie is simple: To SAVE humanity, the environment, and the world in general - to provide comfort and security for the weak and the disenfranchised, that those who do not agree with one aspect - one whit - of the methods being used to accomplish this, they and their families must either become enslaved to those they enslaved, work for those they didn't care about and for free, to see the usefulness of a world without war or violence, those who resist - they and their families must be sacrificed in a new western holocaust - a genocide to ensure that warlike attitudes will be met with disgust and physical discomfort. In other words, they believe to save the world, their neighbors must be MURDERED, and that it is a HOLY THING which will save them. Not religion. Not God. Only Themselves.
THAT is the lie which they believe. Prove it's a lie and their good-intentions are being used against them, and they should remember why they joined the left to begin with.

I'm just afraid it's too late already.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 01:09:56 AM
Yes, I certainly understand why someone would try to discredit witnesses to their misdeeds. Trump has disavowed even ones who have stuck by him, like George Papadopolous (the coffee boy).

People who haven't done anything wrong and who can admit mistakes don't have to pretend they don't know past associates and underlings who turned out to be crooked or incompetent. I leave it to you to decide whether Trump has done something wrong or can't admit mistakes (spoiler: it's both).

Tell me, who is this magical person who has never done anything wrong?

Come on, pics or it never happened!

Well, Jesus Christ leaps to mind, of course.

But "hasn't done anything wrong" means as in not fearing prosecution for violations of the law, not original sin or etiquette blunders. It's not a very high bar; even a few Republicans manage it.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 26, 2020, 09:07:44 AM
Yeah, y'know...

Liberal fucknuggets lost any right to bitch about 'morality' or 'ethics' in a President when they pushed Bill 'Super Cigar' Clinton into the White House.

Even when people were pointing out he was a philandering creep who couldn't keep it in his pants and relied on his grifting wife and her flunkies to keep his trysts quiet.

So yeah, we're not impressed when people snivel about whatever perceived failings Trump has. Because a lot of it is projection.

And before some fucknugget brings up Stormy Daniels; how'd that lawsuit turn out again? Oh yeah -- he won.

The past four years have been a hilarious game of "spaghetti fight". The Dems threw everything and the kitchen sink at Trump, and he is still going to finish his term.
Nothing stuck, because the Dems are relying on the same old play book, and it's gotten old and predictable. Yeah, they're going to call people an ist and a phobe and a nazi white supremacist. That's what they do to everyone they disagree with.
No. There is a next step, and it involves more gaslighting - the plan is simple: Anyone who disagrees with them will be arrested under terrorism laws. This includes both evangelists, Jews, outspoken blacks, and the like. They HAVE to have this done before 2026. All we've seen so far is the warm-up. They are not liberals by definition - they are MURDEROUS LIBERTINES who are hellbent on creating a new holocaust. This includes LGBT+ people, btw. What they needed was a balkanization of the United States and running Trump vs Clinton got them there. The problem with most people here is they only think what they are taught. Not for themselves. The election, the reset, the roundups, and the eventual war will lead to the utter destruction of ALL FREEDOMS. This is not theory, nor a joke. Can anyone here tell me WHY it is necessary to have those who annoy you, or that you disagree with IMPRISONED OR MURDERED? Or their families? Or their children?

I do not understand 90% of ANY of you! Unbelievable!
They better send plenty of people then. Some of us will be more than happy to be their huckleberry.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 26, 2020, 03:40:51 PM
Well, Jesus Christ leaps to mind, of course.

You mean the Jesus Christ convicted by the Romans to die by Crucifixion?


I think that proves my point nicely, thank you.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 26, 2020, 04:56:45 PM
Well, Jesus Christ leaps to mind, of course.

You mean the Jesus Christ convicted by the Romans to die by Crucifixion?


I think that proves my point nicely, thank you.

I presented Jesus as an example of someone who did not do anything wrong; it was Peter who denied Jesus, not the other way around.

What do you think Jesus Christ did wrong? You are welcome to your views, of course, stupid and heretical though they may be.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 26, 2020, 09:51:09 PM
Well, Jesus Christ leaps to mind, of course.

You mean the Jesus Christ convicted by the Romans to die by Crucifixion?


I think that proves my point nicely, thank you.

I presented Jesus as an example of someone who did not do anything wrong; it was Peter who denied Jesus, not the other way around.

What do you think Jesus Christ did wrong? You are welcome to your views, of course, stupid and heretical though they may be.

So even Jesus Christ, your best person ever, had people going behind his back grifting, complaining and betraying him.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Mistwell on November 27, 2020, 12:04:03 AM
Take mistwell for example.  He claims to be some sort of right-leaning Republican who had to hold his nose and vote for Biden...kind of like all of W's cabinet.  Has anyone asked him or seen him tell us which policies of Trump's he found so awful?

Yes, people have. And I have volunteered that information here repeatedly.

I most strongly object to Trump's approach to trade. His trade wars - and they are trade wars - are horribly stupid and not conservative at all. My company is paying through the nose in high customs fees directly because Trump raised the duty on our imported goods, and this has had a negative impact on my company, on my customers, and on my industry and it's customers in general. It's damaged the smaller companies more than the larger companies, which is also a bad choice in terms of policies. It's resulted in less pay for my employees (and me), and fewer employees as well.

I object to his ant-globalism. Globalism works, and is a good ethical policy which runs contrary to Democratic Party approaches to the topic. Globalism has successfully undermined communist Governments across the globe, undermined dictatorships across the globe, has spread American culture to those nations, and ultimately resulted in both the massive decrease in poverty in those nations, a rise in the middle class, and a rise in democracy. Opposing globalism is a fucking disaster from a conservative perspective. It has not resulted in a net benefit to American industries, it's only hurt America.

Trump's reckless behavior with regard to some foreign allies has also weakened some valuable alliances with no gains from that process. He's helped some other alliances, but he could have helped those alliances without the weakening of some of the ones I am referring to.

Trump's made a mess of our immigration policies. We should be brain draining other nations, welcoming immigrants with higher degrees and high skill levels into our nation. Instead he's focused most of his effort on illegal immigration, where he has woefully failed. He has not stemmed the tide of illegal immigrants but he spent most of his resources focused on that issue and damaged our ability to brain drain nations to our benefit.

Finally, Trump has made partisanship in America far more prominent than it used to be (and it was already very influential before he took office) and I think that has done long term damage to the nation. The Republican Party finds itself unable to accomplish key goals like lowering the number of regulations, adjusting taxes, addressing changes to education and finance, addressing some land use planning issues, and a host of other topics because they can no longer be seen to negotiate with Democrats without a threat to their jobs. Which hurts the party and conservative interests. 

All of these views are fairly traditional Republican views. Trump isn't much of a traditional Republican. His views don't match of those shared by all of G Bush Sr., Bob Dole, W. Bush, John McCain, or Mitt Romney for example. In some ways, H. Clinton and Joe Biden are closer to the views of those traditional Republicans on many topics than D. Trump.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 05:02:11 AM
Yes, we should drain the rest of the world of its talent, and then after we've taken all their doctors and anyone who could improve their own countries, we should certainly bring as many of the rest of them as can make it here by whatever means, too - which is morally necessary because they're just fleeing horrid conditions created by draining all the talent from their countries.  This will lower skilled and unskilled wages here so Mistwell can make more money and is profoundly conservative!

This is why I despise the Lincoln Project crushees utterly and abjectly.  They are either colossally ignorant or purposefully lying to people to make them vote against their own interests - all so they can make more money.

According to Mistwell, Abraham Lincoln was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/otyIde6.png)

According to Mistwell, William McKinley was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/NApIhGp.png)

According to Mistwell, Teddy Roosevelt was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/sNQHeTi.png)

According to Mistwell, Calvin Coolidge was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/D8aQkIA.png)


Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: RandyB on November 27, 2020, 11:09:08 AM
Yes, we should drain the rest of the world of its talent, and then after we've taken all their doctors and anyone who could improve their own countries, we should certainly bring as many of the rest of them as can make it here by whatever means, too - which is morally necessary because they're just fleeing horrid conditions created by draining all the talent from their countries.  This will lower skilled and unskilled wages here so Mistwell can make more money and is profoundly conservative!

This is why I despise the Lincoln Project crushees utterly and abjectly.  They are either colossally ignorant or purposefully lying to people to make them vote against their own interests - all so they can make more money.

According to Mistwell, Abraham Lincoln was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/otyIde6.png)

According to Mistwell, William McKinley was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/NApIhGp.png)

According to Mistwell, Teddy Roosevelt was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/sNQHeTi.png)

According to Mistwell, Calvin Coolidge was not a conservative

(https://i.imgur.com/D8aQkIA.png)




Mistwell lies as often as he breathes. However, even a blind dog finds a bone now and then. To wit: I wouldn't call Abraham Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt conservatives, either; albeit for different reasons.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 27, 2020, 11:43:46 AM
To wit: I wouldn't call Abraham Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt conservatives, either; albeit for different reasons.
Neither would I. Lincoln was a radical, Teddy was a progressive, and neither of those map closely to modern beliefs. Plus, a stance on tariffs isn't a litmus test for much of anything, especially when compared across centuries.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 02:13:04 PM
They weren't libertarians, that's for certain.  But tariffs were profoundly conservative, as their purpose was the smallest-burden policy instrument to keep wages high so that government could remain small.  Conservatives have always favored tariffs; i.e., the corn laws in England, etc.

But the point is that neo-conservatives (aka "war democrats" needing a new home after the democratic party went peaceful for a short time decades ago) have become so arrogant they wish to drop the neo- and pretend their policy defines conservatism.

And whether people quibble over conservative or not, to imply Trump's economic policies are not profoundly Republican is to misrepresent history by omission.  And that is the rhetorical effect upon a people deprived of solid knowledge of their history.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 27, 2020, 05:45:19 PM
Until the income tax came along in 1913, tariffs were how the federal government funded itself. So supporting tariffs wasn't a party issue, it was an everyone issue. And while modern libertarians favor the unilateral elimination of tariffs, limiting government to only what could be afforded by charging tariffs is wildly libertarian compared to any stance held by almost anyone in either of the major parties today, who both tend to favor low tariffs under negotiated free trade regimes as part of the neoliberal technocratic viewpoint that includes the mainstream of both parties. Lincoln was profoundly pro-central government and anti-decentralization, and showed little respect for the Constitution. Teddy Roosevelt was all about increasing federal power, as long as it was run by the right people. Trump is in many ways a New York City liberal, except he has an assortment of populist stances that appeal to grass roots conservatives, including a strong push toward protectionism.

It's very tricky trying to compare politicians from a very differently political climate to the parties and figures of today, and it can also be tricky comparing populists with establishment politicians, in any era. Trump has fundamentally shifted the Republican party in a new direction. Which is conservative, but that's almost definitional.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: EOTB on November 27, 2020, 06:17:44 PM
Until the income tax came along in 1913, tariffs were how the federal government funded itself. So supporting tariffs wasn't a party issue, it was an everyone issue. And while modern libertarians favor the unilateral elimination of tariffs, limiting government to only what could be afforded by charging tariffs is wildly libertarian compared to any stance held by almost anyone in either of the major parties today, who both tend to favor low tariffs under negotiated free trade regimes as part of the neoliberal technocratic viewpoint that includes the mainstream of both parties. Lincoln was profoundly pro-central government and anti-decentralization, and showed little respect for the Constitution. Teddy Roosevelt was all about increasing federal power, as long as it was run by the right people. Trump is in many ways a New York City liberal, except he has an assortment of populist stances that appeal to grass roots conservatives, including a strong push toward protectionism.

It's very tricky trying to compare politicians from a very differently political climate to the parties and figures of today, and it can also be tricky comparing populists with establishment politicians, in any era. Trump has fundamentally shifted the Republican party in a new direction. Which is conservative, but that's almost definitional.

Historically, when tariffs were policy, the democrats did not support protectionism.  Republicans did.  Under protectionism, the US became the dominant industrial economy in the world.  Facts.  Saying everyone supports tariffs is misleading as to the actual point.

Unless strangely excluding common Americans identifying as republicans, it can not be credibly said that the mainstream of the republican party supports neoliberal policy.  Over and over republican voters (and democrat voters) tell pollsters they support a protective trade policy in defiance of party politicians and their donors.  Which you acknowledge a couple of sentences later, as if forgetting the statement made just previously.

You are trying to make a dialectic case that so and so president doesn't qualify as conservative under an unstated definition.  Again, this is missing the forest for the trees.  Mistwell uses a rhetorical tactic to play one's self-identity as a conservative and/or republican against Trump's current policies; i.e., Trump is in contradiction to republican and/or conservative tradition, and so are you as a reader if you support Trump in these things.  So you as a reader really need to choose between supporting Trump and credibly calling yourself republican and/or conservative.  But Trump is squarely in line with giants in the republican party policy-wise.  You don't see the Republican party or self-professed conservatives running from the legacies of Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt, and to substitute their names for Trump's in Mistwell's argument shows how absurd it is; how rhetorically incoherent it is. 

I shouldn't have to explain this to you Pat. 
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 27, 2020, 07:03:10 PM
Unless strangely excluding common Americans identifying as republicans, it can not be credibly said that the mainstream of the republican party supports neoliberal policy.  Over and over republican voters (and democrat voters) tell pollsters they support a protective trade policy in defiance of party politicians and their donors.  Which you acknowledge a couple of sentences later, as if forgetting the statement made just previously.
This is valid point. Recent studies have shown a fairly strong alignment between the elites of both parties, and their bases, on many issues. But not all issues, and the main exception is economic. The elites tend to favor things like free trade far more than the popular base of their parties. And when there's a divergence between the popular base and the elites, the elites' preferences almost always carry the day.

But that goes back to my point that Trump is a populist, rather than a traditional Republican or conservative. It's not a contradiction on my part, because populism vs. elitism is fundamentally different than the conservative/liberal split. That's why the establishment Republicans have been so hesitant to support him, which gets into a lot of the stuff labeled deep state. He's the first populist politician in a while, which is why he's redefined the political landscape.

You are trying to make a dialectic case that so and so president doesn't qualify as conservative under an unstated definition.  Again, this is missing the forest for the trees.  Mistwell uses a rhetorical tactic to play one's self-identity as a conservative and/or republican against Trump's current policies; i.e., Trump is in contradiction to republican and/or conservative tradition, and so are you as a reader if you support Trump in these things.  So you as a reader really need to choose between supporting Trump and credibly calling yourself republican and/or conservative.  But Trump is squarely in line with giants in the republican party policy-wise.  You don't see the Republican party or self-professed conservatives running from the legacies of Lincoln or Teddy Roosevelt, and to substitute their names for Trump's in Mistwell's argument shows how absurd it is; how rhetorically incoherent it is. 

I shouldn't have to explain this to you Pat.
No, I'm not. I explicitly called Trump a conservative, though I noted his roots and some of his reflexes are liberal. The case I'm making is that there is no ur-conservatism, unless you define conservatism either in relative terms or by trying to trace historical continuity.

The relative definition (conservatives trying to conserve, i.e. favoring slower change), has some merit, because sociological studies indicate that conservatives tend to think in certain ways (cf. The Righteous Mind), but that's a tendency rather than a set of specific policies.

The historical continuity version may have some truth for a certain period of time (say back to the 1st Buckley or thereabouts), but over the longer haul of centuries, it breaks down because there are fundamental shifts in alignment. For instance, the most libertarian president of all time (Jackson) was a Democrat, the president behind the most radical change in the country was a Republican (Lincoln), and another Republican was the poster child of the Progressive Era (Teddy Roosevelt). That isn't to say that the polarity periodically flips 180 degrees -- Teddy was a imperialist individualist, too -- but that it's too limiting to try to define them by modern beliefs. What was called Democrat (or liberal) in the 1800s has little bearing on what is called Democrat or liberal in the 2020s; the landscape has shifted too much.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Mistwell on November 27, 2020, 10:49:09 PM
Question: Hey Mistwell, what actually policies of Trump did you disagree with
Mistwell: Well I am happy you asked, here are many policies I disagree with Trump on, all of which are in line with the views of the last five Republicans to receive the Presidential nomination prior to Trump.
Everyone: He lies! Those are not true conservative beliefs!

Yeah OK then. If you're going to tell me G. Bush, Bob Dole, W. Bush (nominated twice), McCain and Romney are not Republicans, you can suck it. They might not be your kind of Republicans, but they were my kind of Republicans, and the Republican party agreed they were Republicans. And given G. Bush was VP under Reagan and the party universally agreed he was Republican then too, we're talking a set of beliefs dating back at least 40 years (though I'd argue Ford also supported those policies too).

Also, on the topic of brain drain, these are people leaving their nation anyway. There is no evidence if they cannot come to the U.S. then they just stay in their home country. There is international competition to receive these kinds of immigrants, and if we tell them no they just end up in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, England, and a host of other first world nations.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Arkansan on November 27, 2020, 11:18:15 PM
Question: Hey Mistwell, what actually policies of Trump did you disagree with
Mistwell: Well I am happy you asked, here are many policies I disagree with Trump on, all of which are in line with the views of the last five Republicans to receive the Presidential nomination prior to Trump.
Everyone: He lies! Those are not true conservative beliefs!

Yeah OK then. If you're going to tell me G. Bush, Bob Dole, W. Bush (nominated twice), McCain and Romney are not Republicans, you can suck it. They might not be your kind of Republicans, but they were my kind of Republicans, and the Republican party agreed they were Republicans. And given G. Bush was VP under Reagan and the party universally agreed he was Republican then too, we're talking a set of beliefs dating back at least 40 years (though I'd argue Ford also supported those policies too).

Also, on the topic of brain drain, these are people leaving their nation anyway. There is no evidence if they cannot come to the U.S. then they just stay in their home country. There is international competition to receive these kinds of immigrants, and if we tell them no they just end up in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, England, and a host of other first world nations.

The beliefs of the Republican party or factions therein aren't the defining feature of Conservatism as a political alignment.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: EOTB on November 28, 2020, 12:30:30 AM
point of order - I called you out not because you laid out your utterly predictable views, but for what else you couldn’t resist adding to them. 

But hey, by your own assessment nobody agrees with you.

As for “they’ll just go elsewhere because they don’t want to build their own homelands up to 1st world status”...good, let those other countries take them.  If that’s how they treat their own countrymen, exactly what value are they really?  Citizenship is about much more than wanting to participate in an economy.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 28, 2020, 01:08:35 AM
So even Jesus Christ, your best person ever, had people going behind his back grifting, complaining and betraying him.

1. You still haven't said what you think Jesus Christ did wrong.
2. Jesus Christ didn't pretend not to know the sinners he associated with; arguably, pardons were issued to all of humanity but not as a corrupt act to get Jesus Christ off the hook (or cross).
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 28, 2020, 02:36:26 AM
Question: Hey Mistwell, what actually policies of Trump did you disagree with
Mistwell: Well I am happy you asked, here are many policies I disagree with Trump on, all of which are in line with the views of the last five Republicans to receive the Presidential nomination prior to Trump.
Everyone: He lies! Those are not true conservative beliefs!

Yeah OK then. If you're going to tell me G. Bush, Bob Dole, W. Bush (nominated twice), McCain and Romney are not Republicans, you can suck it. They might not be your kind of Republicans, but they were my kind of Republicans, and the Republican party agreed they were Republicans. And given G. Bush was VP under Reagan and the party universally agreed he was Republican then too, we're talking a set of beliefs dating back at least 40 years (though I'd argue Ford also supported those policies too).

Also, on the topic of brain drain, these are people leaving their nation anyway. There is no evidence if they cannot come to the U.S. then they just stay in their home country. There is international competition to receive these kinds of immigrants, and if we tell them no they just end up in Canada, New Zealand, Australia, England, and a host of other first world nations.

Greetings!

Yeah, Mistwell, and all of those Republican politicians you mentioned--Bush Sr, Bob Dole, Bush Jr, John Mcain, and Mitt Romney--except for Bush Jr, were LOSERS.

They were all "Lead and Pace" Republicans primarily content to bloviate about wonky policy issues--and carefully avoid getting into any messy issues of the Culture War--while losing "Gracefully and with Dignity" again, and again, and again.

Most of them--Bush Sr, Bush Jr, John Mcain, and Mitt Romney--I can't say for certain about Bob Dole--were essentially mushy, smiling, polite, weak globalists. They were focused on catering to the smug, corporate elites of the donor class. And yes, their ilk, and their philosophy--have been around and circulating throughout society and the Republican Party for some 40 years or more. The same kind of smooth talking, gaseous jackasses that talk a good game, promise to fight for Conservative American values and ideals--and then get on their knees and cock-suck the Democrats, endlessly compromise, while next weekend playing golf and attending cigar dinners with their Democrat Party colleagues--and month after month, session after session, election after election, get nothing done. When confronted about their swarmy failures and lack of accomplishments--they again pour on the smooze, make endless excuses, and promise to "win the fight for America next time!"

Meanwhile, year after year, the cock-sucking Liberals and Marxists get stronger and stronger, and more influential. TRUE CONSERVATIVES sit there and wonder, well, WTF? We keep voting in Republican Senators, Republican Congressmen, Republican Presidents--while somehow, the Marxists keep winning, and America declines.

The fucking cock-sucking RINOS, the Globalists, the "Lincoln Project", the "Never Trumpers"--they can all go fuck themselves and gargle with crushed glass. And the sweet thing is, TRUMP has made them all cry like bitches. TRUMPISM is here to stay! Americans--Conservative Americans--have finally woken up to how they have been constantly betrayed and lied to by corrupt, selfish, weak, compromising, feckless Republican politicians. Trump not only told all the pathetic, weak fucking RINOS to go fuck themselves--but he also boldly attacked the Marxists and the goddamned Liberals that have embraced Marxist poison. Every week he has made the Democrats sob and REEE. FINALLY, the ordinary, Conservative Americans have a politician that has been CONSERVATIVE, and bold, and aggressive, relentlessly attacking the Democrats and weak fucking RINOS with equal fire.

It's a new era, Mistwell. RINOS have gotten fucked over and over again at the polls, and now, hell, even Republican women are getting angry, and being elected to office in record numbers, with most of them being fierce fire-breathers and anti-RINOS. 75 million Americans are not likely to ever go back to supporting pathetic Globalist RINOS like John Mcain and Mitt Romney. Regardless of whatever develops with the Trump Campaign's investigations into mass Election fraud, TRUMPISM has fundamentally changed the political landscape in America. Furthermore, if the remaining RINO's don't get their heads out of their ass real fast, the Republican Party might just be flushed down the toilet entirely, and replaced by a MAGA Party!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 28, 2020, 03:35:07 PM
So even Jesus Christ, your best person ever, had people going behind his back grifting, complaining and betraying him.

1. You still haven't said what you think Jesus Christ did wrong.
2. Jesus Christ didn't pretend not to know the sinners he associated with; arguably, pardons were issued to all of humanity but not as a corrupt act to get Jesus Christ off the hook (or cross).

Why is it that left wing democrats always focus on what someone did wrong?  To the exclusion of everything else really.

Which reminds me that I have not seen you denouncing white supremacy.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 29, 2020, 06:40:35 PM
So even Jesus Christ, your best person ever, had people going behind his back grifting, complaining and betraying him.

1. You still haven't said what you think Jesus Christ did wrong.
2. Jesus Christ didn't pretend not to know the sinners he associated with; arguably, pardons were issued to all of humanity but not as a corrupt act to get Jesus Christ off the hook (or cross).

Why is it that left wing democrats always focus on what someone did wrong?  To the exclusion of everything else really.

Which reminds me that I have not seen you denouncing white supremacy.

Greetings!

*Laughing* All the "HU WHITE SUPREMACY!!!!" ;D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 29, 2020, 06:41:55 PM
point of order - I called you out not because you laid out your utterly predictable views, but for what else you couldn’t resist adding to them. 

But hey, by your own assessment nobody agrees with you.

As for “they’ll just go elsewhere because they don’t want to build their own homelands up to 1st world status”...good, let those other countries take them.  If that’s how they treat their own countrymen, exactly what value are they really?  Citizenship is about much more than wanting to participate in an economy.

Greetings!

Damn right, EOTB!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 01:42:36 AM
Why is it that left wing democrats always focus on what someone did wrong?  To the exclusion of everything else really.

Which reminds me that I have not seen you denouncing white supremacy.

You brought up other matters to distract from points you couldn't dispute. I have excluded nothing, and I look forward to the good things that a Biden administration will accomplish on many pressing matters.

If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

To return to the topic you were so desperate to distract from (how Trump responds to wrongdoing among his close associates), consider how every Republican administration in my lifetime has ended:

Nixon/Ford ended with Nixon underlings convicted of crimes and Ford pardoning Nixon over Watergate.
Reagan/Bush1 ending with Bush1 pardoning six administration members for crimes related to Iran/Contra.
Bush2 commuted the sentence of "Scooter" Libby over the CIA leak scandal.
Trump was impeached for the Ukraine scandal, commuted Roger Stone's sentence and pardoned Michael Flynn, as well as some Bush2 administration wrongdoing, and it is not unlikely he will try to pardon himself.

By contrast, Bill Clinton got impeached over his adultery and had some dubious pardons, including his secretary of HUD (payments to a mistress) but none for scandals on the scale of the Republicans. I can find no particularly controversial pardons by Kennedy, Johnson, Carter or Obama.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: consolcwby on November 30, 2020, 02:12:19 AM
Why is it that left wing democrats always focus on what someone did wrong?  To the exclusion of everything else really.

Which reminds me that I have not seen you denouncing white supremacy.

You brought up other matters to distract from points you couldn't dispute. I have excluded nothing, and I look forward to the good things that a Biden administration will accomplish on many pressing matters.

If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

To return to the topic you were so desperate to distract from (how Trump responds to wrongdoing among his close associates), consider how every Republican administration in my lifetime has ended:

Nixon/Ford ended with Nixon underlings convicted of crimes and Ford pardoning Nixon over Watergate.
Reagan/Bush1 ending with Bush1 pardoning six administration members for crimes related to Iran/Contra.
Bush2 commuted the sentence of "Scooter" Libby over the CIA leak scandal.
Trump was impeached for the Ukraine scandal, commuted Roger Stone's sentence and pardoned Michael Flynn, as well as some Bush2 administration wrongdoing, and it is not unlikely he will try to pardon himself.

By contrast, Bill Clinton got impeached over his adultery and had some dubious pardons, including his secretary of HUD (payments to a mistress) but none for scandals on the scale of the Republicans. I can find no particularly controversial pardons by Kennedy, Johnson, Carter or Obama.
Hm. I'll just put this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Barack_Obama
Have fun everyone!  ;D
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: SHARK on November 30, 2020, 03:06:08 AM
Greetings!

Well, now apparently the corrupt fucking Marxist Democrats down in Georgia are seeking to quickly have their Dominion voting machines forensically wiped before they can be inspected by GOP and other analysts.

But there is no corruption or fraud going on!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 08:36:06 AM
Clinton didn't get impeached for adultery. He got impeached for perjuring himself under oath.

Considering Bill Clinton's considerable charisma (the guy would've made a hell of a bard), it's entirely possible he could've brazened it out by straight up admitting to the affair.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Arkansan on November 30, 2020, 09:45:00 AM
Clinton didn't get impeached for adultery. He got impeached for perjuring himself under oath.

Considering Bill Clinton's considerable charisma (the guy would've made a hell of a bard), it's entirely possible he could've brazened it out by straight up admitting to the affair.

I've never understood why he didn't do just that. The only thing I can think is that maybe he was afraid that being open about it might lend public credence to other allegations of sexual impropriety, namely you know.. rape.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 09:49:54 AM
Hm. I'll just put this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Barack_Obama
Have fun everyone!  ;D

I'm not seeing any Obama administration officials being pardoned by Obama. We're all still waiting for Trump's DOJ to prosecute Hillary Clinton.

Which do you think were controversial? Which do you think were comparable to the Republican cleanup efforts I listed?

Clinton didn't get impeached for adultery. He got impeached for perjuring himself under oath.

Considering Bill Clinton's considerable charisma (the guy would've made a hell of a bard), it's entirely possible he could've brazened it out by straight up admitting to the affair.

Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 10:47:03 AM
Clinton didn't get impeached for adultery. He got impeached for perjuring himself under oath.

Considering Bill Clinton's considerable charisma (the guy would've made a hell of a bard), it's entirely possible he could've brazened it out by straight up admitting to the affair.

I've never understood why he didn't do just that. The only thing I can think is that maybe he was afraid that being open about it might lend public credence to other allegations of sexual impropriety, namely you know.. rape.
That was my guess, to be honest. He had a LONG running reputation all the way back to his time as governor of Arkansas, and his wife routinely helped quiet down what they so charmingly called 'bimbo eruptions'.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 12:47:17 PM
Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Very corrupt. Remember Whitewater? The main difference is the public ate up salacious rumors, and zoned out when it came to shady real estate transactions.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 12:56:08 PM
Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Very corrupt. Remember Whitewater? The main difference is the public ate up salacious rumors, and zoned out when it came to shady real estate transactions.
The Whitewater stuff was pretty arcane, although people got a lot more interested when Bernie Madoff's scheme fell apart.

Still, it kind of beggared reason that the Clintons could magically produce that kind of return on investment.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 01:44:39 PM
Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Very corrupt. Remember Whitewater? The main difference is the public ate up salacious rumors, and zoned out when it came to shady real estate transactions.
The Whitewater stuff was pretty arcane, although people got a lot more interested when Bernie Madoff's scheme fell apart.

Still, it kind of beggared reason that the Clintons could magically produce that kind of return on investment.
That's the problem with white collar crime: It's very hard to prove. But the number of politicians who become rich while in office raises eyebrows, and the voters should look askance. If someone makes $200K/year in salary, but their net worth grows by millions, tens of millions, or hundreds of millions while in office, we should stop reelecting them.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
Not perjury regarding any official action but perjury about adultery. Sleazy rather than corrupt. Most Republican presidents are corrupt rather than sleazy, but Trump has managed the twofer.
Very corrupt. Remember Whitewater? The main difference is the public ate up salacious rumors, and zoned out when it came to shady real estate transactions.
The Whitewater stuff was pretty arcane, although people got a lot more interested when Bernie Madoff's scheme fell apart.

Still, it kind of beggared reason that the Clintons could magically produce that kind of return on investment.
That's the problem with white collar crime: It's very hard to prove. But the number of politicians who become rich while in office raises eyebrows, and the voters should look askance. If someone makes $200K/year in salary, but their net worth grows by millions, tens of millions, or hundreds of millions while in office, we should stop reelecting them.
I agree without reservation as far as politicians and net worth. While I'm all for 'be the best capitalist you can be', if you're in a position of political power, you weren't sent there to get rich.

Although I disagree about white collar crime being hard to prove. The problem is that the people who usually do the enforcement (in Madoff's case, the SEC) are not actually trained to look for the red flags. It took a forensic accountant about twenty minutes to figure out it was bullshit, and a few more hours to figure out how the scam was being run. Unfortunately, the SEC seems to be dominated by lawyers, not accountants.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 06:21:19 PM
That's the problem with white collar crime: It's very hard to prove. But the number of politicians who become rich while in office raises eyebrows, and the voters should look askance. If someone makes $200K/year in salary, but their net worth grows by millions, tens of millions, or hundreds of millions while in office, we should stop reelecting them.
I agree without reservation as far as politicians and net worth. While I'm all for 'be the best capitalist you can be', if you're in a position of political power, you weren't sent there to get rich.

Although I disagree about white collar crime being hard to prove. The problem is that the people who usually do the enforcement (in Madoff's case, the SEC) are not actually trained to look for the red flags. It took a forensic accountant about twenty minutes to figure out it was bullshit, and a few more hours to figure out how the scam was being run. Unfortunately, the SEC seems to be dominated by lawyers, not accountants.
That could very well be true about Madoff and the SEC, and having more accountants in key agencies would be a good step. And more generally it's also true that there's always been an asymmetry in expertise between white collar criminals and regulators, which makes it hard to catch those who commit the crimes. But it remains true that white collar crime, in general, is hard to prove. One of the classic examples is insider trading. Unless phone calls are being recorded, someone confesses, or someone says something stupid in an email, almost anything can be explained away as luck or market smarts. That contrasts with more typical crimes, where it's clear a crime was committed because something is missing, broken, or happened to someone.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2020, 06:29:50 PM
I agree without reservation as far as politicians and net worth. While I'm all for 'be the best capitalist you can be', if you're in a position of political power, you weren't sent there to get rich.

Although I disagree about white collar crime being hard to prove. The problem is that the people who usually do the enforcement (in Madoff's case, the SEC) are not actually trained to look for the red flags. It took a forensic accountant about twenty minutes to figure out it was bullshit, and a few more hours to figure out how the scam was being run. Unfortunately, the SEC seems to be dominated by lawyers, not accountants.

My sister is a Finance PhD who works at the SEC. My second-hand impression is that they need a ton of lawyers because they are extremely limited in what sort of operations they can engage in. It sounds very frustrating to work there, and I am not impressed by what they have done - but it seems like they are hamstrung by what they are allowed to pursue and prosecute, not because they don't have the skills.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Pat on November 30, 2020, 06:50:01 PM
My sister is a Finance PhD who works at the SEC. My second-hand impression is that they need a ton of lawyers because they are extremely limited in what sort of operations they can engage in. It sounds very frustrating to work there, and I am not impressed by what they have done - but it seems like they are hamstrung by what they are allowed to pursue and prosecute, not because they don't have the skills.
Regulatory capture-type limitations? Because that's another issue with white collar crime -- the perpetrators tend to be very well connected, or are in positions of power.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jhkim on November 30, 2020, 07:16:06 PM
My sister is a Finance PhD who works at the SEC. My second-hand impression is that they need a ton of lawyers because they are extremely limited in what sort of operations they can engage in. It sounds very frustrating to work there, and I am not impressed by what they have done - but it seems like they are hamstrung by what they are allowed to pursue and prosecute, not because they don't have the skills.
Regulatory capture-type limitations? Because that's another issue with white collar crime -- the perpetrators tend to be very well connected, or are in positions of power.

I don't know exactly. She's not allowed to talk in any detail about her work, so everything is more in impressions and reading some public articles.

Basically, my impression is that yes, the SEC doesn't actually go against those really in power. I can't speak to the internals about exactly why that is so, but it leaves me thinking that there need to be serious changes to give it real teeth. I just don't know who would do so.

For all his talk attacking Big Tech firms like Amazon and Facebook, it seems to me that Trump has done nothing to actually rein in Big Tech and other large corporations. The EU regulations on privacy seem to be the biggest concerns of theirs, but mostly they just look to keep growing more powerful. On the other hand, Democrats also have done little to constrain big corporations. The closest to a confrontation was Prop 22 in California that took on Uber and Lyft, but there the corporations won.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 30, 2020, 08:47:26 PM
Remember when the SEC found Bernie Madoff operating the worlds biggest ponzi scheme right under their nose?

Oh right, that never happened.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on November 30, 2020, 08:56:52 PM
Why is it that left wing democrats always focus on what someone did wrong?  To the exclusion of everything else really.

Which reminds me that I have not seen you denouncing white supremacy.

You brought up other matters to distract from points you couldn't dispute. I have excluded nothing, and I look forward to the good things that a Biden administration will accomplish on many pressing matters.

Of course I never would dispute that people always complain about anyone, even Jesus Christ.  Its up to you to not listen to grifters trying to get another 12 silver shekels.


Quote
If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

If you really thought that then why did it take you so long?  Some would doubt your sincerity when you have to be called out before making wishy washy comments like how white supremacy is bad.  You did not even disavow Antifa.

No wonder this site has such a bad reputation.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Ghostmaker on November 30, 2020, 09:56:42 PM
Regulatory capture-type limitations? Because that's another issue with white collar crime -- the perpetrators tend to be very well connected, or are in positions of power.
Regulatory capture is one of the reasons why government influence into private business needs to be limited to actual legal issues (such as 'no machine-gunning your competitors', etc).

Remember when the SEC found Bernie Madoff operating the worlds biggest ponzi scheme right under their nose?

Oh right, that never happened.
Considering it had to be practically pointed out them with signal flares...
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on November 30, 2020, 11:54:09 PM
If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

If you really thought that then why did it take you so long?  Some would doubt your sincerity when you have to be called out before making wishy washy comments like how white supremacy is bad.  You did not even disavow Antifa.

I haven't posted a lot of statements about things that are obviously true. That so many posters like you need to be told very obvious things is why this site has a bad reputation.

I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Arkansan on December 01, 2020, 02:16:44 PM
Clinton didn't get impeached for adultery. He got impeached for perjuring himself under oath.

Considering Bill Clinton's considerable charisma (the guy would've made a hell of a bard), it's entirely possible he could've brazened it out by straight up admitting to the affair.

I've never understood why he didn't do just that. The only thing I can think is that maybe he was afraid that being open about it might lend public credence to other allegations of sexual impropriety, namely you know.. rape.
That was my guess, to be honest. He had a LONG running reputation all the way back to his time as governor of Arkansas, and his wife routinely helped quiet down what they so charmingly called 'bimbo eruptions'.

Oh yeah. As an Arkansas native who is familiar with some of the characters involved, Bill's reputation for womanizing and not taking no for an answer were legendary long before he ran for president.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: shuddemell on December 01, 2020, 02:58:46 PM
For that matter, the Clinton's families corruption was legendary from his days as a governor... So there's that.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on December 01, 2020, 02:59:56 PM
I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

That is true, not even one of them.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jeff37923 on December 01, 2020, 04:55:50 PM
If you're asking me if white supremacy is bad, then, yes, it is bad. You shouldn't need me to tell you that, but right wingers often have that difficulty.

If you really thought that then why did it take you so long?  Some would doubt your sincerity when you have to be called out before making wishy washy comments like how white supremacy is bad.  You did not even disavow Antifa.

I haven't posted a lot of statements about things that are obviously true. That so many posters like you need to be told very obvious things is why this site has a bad reputation.

I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

You don't get it, do you guys? rawma is sitting in front of a mirror typing one-handed while he furiously masturbates to the dream of a Leftist Narrative. It is a two-fisted ego stroke for him.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Joey2k on December 01, 2020, 05:06:19 PM

I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

I keep seeing statistics stating that right wing white supremacists (even though those two things are not at all synonymous) are responsible for more terroristic violence than leftists. And I don't buy it at all.

Why?

If all this "right wing" violence was going on, with as far left as the media has become, they would be chomping at the bit to get it on the air in front of as many people as possible as often as possible to validate their fucked up world view. The fact that the stories are not showing up on the 6 o'clock news indicates that the stories are just not there.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jhkim on December 01, 2020, 05:46:12 PM
I keep seeing statistics stating that right wing white supremacists (even though those two things are not at all synonymous) are responsible for more terroristic violence than leftists. And I don't buy it at all.

Why?

If all this "right wing" violence was going on, with as far left as the media has become, they would be chomping at the bit to get it on the air in front of as many people as possible as often as possible to validate their fucked up world view. The fact that the stories are not showing up on the 6 o'clock news indicates that the stories are just not there.

I don't watch television much, but it seems to me that the violence is getting widespread attention. I think the El Paso Walmart shooting last year was clearly right-wing, and it got a lot of attention. With 23 deaths, that's a big chunk of the violence just in that one incident. The synagogue shootings (Poway and Philidelphia) are also generally considered right wing. There's a lot of wiggle room, though, in what gets classified as "terrorist" as well as what is classified as "right-wing", so I think it's certainly up for debate.

This year, violence has been down so far, thankfully. One can see a breakdown of incidents in things like this report:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states

The trick is in how they include incidents into the list, and how they classify them as left-wing, right-wing, or otherwise. That seems like a potentially quite subjective process. They're not inventing incidents wholesale, though. There genuinely are right-wing killings and plots. This year, for example, there were The Base members who planned murder in Georgia, the Bay Area boogaloo killings, and the plot to kidnap the Michigan governor.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Joey2k on December 01, 2020, 05:55:10 PM
I keep seeing statistics stating that right wing white supremacists (even though those two things are not at all synonymous) are responsible for more terroristic violence than leftists. And I don't buy it at all.

Why?

If all this "right wing" violence was going on, with as far left as the media has become, they would be chomping at the bit to get it on the air in front of as many people as possible as often as possible to validate their fucked up world view. The fact that the stories are not showing up on the 6 o'clock news indicates that the stories are just not there.

I don't watch television much, but it seems to me that the violence is getting widespread attention. I think the El Paso Walmart shooting last year was clearly right-wing, and it got a lot of attention. With 23 deaths, that's a big chunk of the violence just in that one incident. The synagogue shootings (Poway and Philidelphia) are also generally considered right wing. There's a lot of wiggle room, though, in what gets classified as "terrorist" as well as what is classified as "right-wing", so I think it's certainly up for debate.

This year, violence has been down so far, thankfully. One can see a breakdown of incidents in things like this report:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states

The trick is in how they include incidents into the list, and how they classify them as left-wing, right-wing, or otherwise. That seems like a potentially quite subjective process. They're not inventing incidents wholesale, though. There genuinely are right-wing killings and plots. This year, for example, there were The Base members who planned murder in Georgia, the Bay Area boogaloo killings, and the plot to kidnap the Michigan governor.

I suppose it also depends on whether you are counting incidents or individual counts/charges.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on December 01, 2020, 11:40:11 PM
I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

That is true, not even one of them.

Plenty of concern for all-but-nonexistent voter fraud, though, while ignoring murder. Very right-wing of you.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on December 01, 2020, 11:42:32 PM
I keep seeing statistics stating that right wing white supremacists (even though those two things are not at all synonymous) are responsible for more terroristic violence than leftists. And I don't buy it at all.

Why?

If all this "right wing" violence was going on, with as far left as the media has become, they would be chomping at the bit to get it on the air in front of as many people as possible as often as possible to validate their fucked up world view. The fact that the stories are not showing up on the 6 o'clock news indicates that the stories are just not there.

I don't watch television much, but it seems to me that the violence is getting widespread attention. I think the El Paso Walmart shooting last year was clearly right-wing, and it got a lot of attention. With 23 deaths, that's a big chunk of the violence just in that one incident. The synagogue shootings (Poway and Philidelphia) are also generally considered right wing. There's a lot of wiggle room, though, in what gets classified as "terrorist" as well as what is classified as "right-wing", so I think it's certainly up for debate.

This year, violence has been down so far, thankfully. One can see a breakdown of incidents in things like this report:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states

The trick is in how they include incidents into the list, and how they classify them as left-wing, right-wing, or otherwise. That seems like a potentially quite subjective process. They're not inventing incidents wholesale, though. There genuinely are right-wing killings and plots. This year, for example, there were The Base members who planned murder in Georgia, the Bay Area boogaloo killings, and the plot to kidnap the Michigan governor.

The most likely explanation is that the media are not really left-wing, no matter what Joey2k wants to believe.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: consolcwby on December 02, 2020, 01:16:24 AM
Without evidence, neither actual or circumstantial, I will let you peeps in on a secret: Many, oh so many, of these shootings, in particular against the Jewish community, is NOT being done by 'Right-Wing Extemists'. In fact, according to my old sources, most of this is being done by the Communists and Commu-Fascists in order to discredit, and sow hatred towards Christians, Patriotic Groups, and at one time Isolationists - now Nationalists (Nationalists as in non-Globalists - not 'White Nationalists' - too many blacks, asians, and hispanics in that group to be considered white!). In fact, this campaign of demonization began in the late 1960's being funded by both Castro's Cuba and the Soviet Union. Now, of course, it is being funded by a plethora of countries, in particular, those countries which have much to lose if globalism doesn't go through, read China, Iran, the Congo, et al. and the surprising actor in this is the EU, in particular Germany and the UK.

So, be aware that those who are 'in-the-know' are pissed. Pissed enough to do the same to the other side.
But not yet.
Hang on to your jox!
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Joey2k on December 02, 2020, 01:09:28 PM
I keep seeing statistics stating that right wing white supremacists (even though those two things are not at all synonymous) are responsible for more terroristic violence than leftists. And I don't buy it at all.

Why?

If all this "right wing" violence was going on, with as far left as the media has become, they would be chomping at the bit to get it on the air in front of as many people as possible as often as possible to validate their fucked up world view. The fact that the stories are not showing up on the 6 o'clock news indicates that the stories are just not there.

I don't watch television much, but it seems to me that the violence is getting widespread attention. I think the El Paso Walmart shooting last year was clearly right-wing, and it got a lot of attention. With 23 deaths, that's a big chunk of the violence just in that one incident. The synagogue shootings (Poway and Philidelphia) are also generally considered right wing. There's a lot of wiggle room, though, in what gets classified as "terrorist" as well as what is classified as "right-wing", so I think it's certainly up for debate.

This year, violence has been down so far, thankfully. One can see a breakdown of incidents in things like this report:

https://www.csis.org/analysis/war-comes-home-evolution-domestic-terrorism-united-states

The trick is in how they include incidents into the list, and how they classify them as left-wing, right-wing, or otherwise. That seems like a potentially quite subjective process. They're not inventing incidents wholesale, though. There genuinely are right-wing killings and plots. This year, for example, there were The Base members who planned murder in Georgia, the Bay Area boogaloo killings, and the plot to kidnap the Michigan governor.

The most likely explanation is that the media are not really left-wing, no matter what Joey2k wants to believe.

Now I know you're either completely oblivious or completely intellectually dishonest
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: Shasarak on December 02, 2020, 02:54:35 PM
I have not noticed you denouncing even one of the many, many murders committed by right wing extremists in the US.

That is true, not even one of them.

Plenty of concern for all-but-nonexistent voter fraud, though, while ignoring murder. Very right-wing of you.

Was the question disavow or ignore?  I am having trouble keeping up with your goal posts.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jhkim on December 02, 2020, 04:05:37 PM
Without evidence, neither actual or circumstantial, I will let you peeps in on a secret: Many, oh so many, of these shootings, in particular against the Jewish community, is NOT being done by 'Right-Wing Extemists'. In fact, according to my old sources, most of this is being done by the Communists and Commu-Fascists in order to discredit, and sow hatred towards Christians, Patriotic Groups, and at one time Isolationists - now Nationalists (Nationalists as in non-Globalists - not 'White Nationalists' - too many blacks, asians, and hispanics in that group to be considered white!). In fact, this campaign of demonization began in the late 1960's being funded by both Castro's Cuba and the Soviet Union. Now, of course, it is being funded by a plethora of countries, in particular, those countries which have much to lose if globalism doesn't go through, read China, Iran, the Congo, et al. and the surprising actor in this is the EU, in particular Germany and the UK.

So, be aware that those who are 'in-the-know' are pissed. Pissed enough to do the same to the other side.
But not yet.
Hang on to your jox!

The other way is already happening. In the Bay Area boogaloo shootings this year, the perpetrators Steven Carrillo and Robert Justus explicitly talked to each other about using the Black Lives Matter protests as cover for their police shootings. As I recall, there are captured messages saying exactly this. And it worked for a time - since the first shooting was originally reported as BLM violence.

As for the other side, are you claiming that Robert Bowers (the Pittsburgh synagogue shooter) or John Timothy Earnest (the Poway synagogue shooter) are actually Communists or Commu-Fascists? That seems very difficult to pull off. There have been interviews with their friends and family, and examination of their social media and other writings. It's generally easier to pull off a false flag if the perpetrator is *not* caught.

False flag operations do exist - but overwhelmingly, violent terrorists are *not* masterful actors who perfect deep covers. They're not genius superspies -- they're crazed violent assholes.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: rawma on December 02, 2020, 04:22:04 PM
sitting in front of a mirror typing one-handed while he furiously masturbates to the dream of a Leftist Narrative.

jeff37923 spends a lot of time imagining sex involving people he doesn't like.
Title: Re: GOP Mad About Election Because Their Voter Suppression Efforts Were Blocked
Post by: jeff37923 on December 02, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
sitting in front of a mirror typing one-handed while he furiously masturbates to the dream of a Leftist Narrative.

jeff37923 spends a lot of time imagining sex involving people he doesn't like.

Still better than being an intellectually dishonest troll fapping his way through life.