SJWs have taken over D&D and S&W and Onyx/WW; who is left?

[jeff37923]

S&W looks like a marketing trick, so what? If the game is good, then the game is good. I think that John Scalzi is a complete off-the-rails libtard, but I like what he writes when he writes fiction. It is possible to like the product without liking the producers of that product.

[san dee jota]

S&W looks like a marketing trick, so what? If the game is good, then the game is good. I think that John Scalzi is a complete off-the-rails libtard, but I like what he writes when he writes fiction. It is possible to like the product without liking the producers of that product.

But how do you feel about Zak S?










Sorry.  Sorry.  I'll get my hat.

[1989]

>

S&W looks like a marketing trick, so what? If the game is good, then the game is good. I think that John Scalzi is a complete off-the-rails libtard, but I like what he writes when he writes fiction. It is possible to like the product without liking the producers of that product.

It just rubs me the wrong way. Don't want to support this. Spend my money elsewhere.

[Llew ap Hywel]

I don't care who writes what as long as I like what they write.

The more I learn about both sides of this SJW rubbish the more I see it as an annoying distraction from gaming and actual game related conversations. The irony that I'm again posting on such a thread is not lost on me :eek:

[1989]

I don't care who writes what as long as I like what they write.

The more I learn about both sides of this SJW rubbish the more I see it as an annoying distraction from gaming and actual game related conversations. The irony that I'm again posting on such a thread is not lost on me :eek:

The more of this shit you buy, the more they will be emboldened, and the more it will be explicitly pushed in your face, until you're facing the equivalent of DisneyLand Gay Days. Look at Paizo!

Give an inch. Take a mile. It's always like this.

[S'mon]

Me?

Oh - 5e D&D (WotC are left-liberal, not SJW) with Paizo material from 2012 and earlier (they were always left-liberal, they only went Full SJW late 2012, around the Obama re-election and associated hysteria). 5e D&D with Dyson Logos (non-SJW OSR publisher) stuff.
4e D&D (WotC, likewise). Mentzer Classic BECM/RC D&D with the old Mystara GAZes and Basic Fantasy adventures.

Recent purchases are mostly OSR - Dan Proctor's Apes Victorious. White Star. Operation: Whitebox.

OK Swords & Wizardry got the old Jesse Jackson shakedown from Stacy "Why does the OSR hate women?" Dellaforno, and have now put out an SJW edition. But I don't think that taints authors using S&W as the chassis for their own games.

I also don't think that WoTC having 100% female artists or typesetters or whatever makes them SJW, even if they boast about it. It's only 'problematic' if they consciously refuse to hire men/whites/straights whatever, and I've seen no evidence of that. I don't believe in 'disparate impact'; there are jobs women like doing more than men, and vice-versa.

I live in London, so most of my players are left-liberals. Obviously they hear a lot of SJW crap and it does influence them (or at least their Facebook posting*), but these are not bad people and I wouldn 't want to avoid playing with them. Even right-wing people say stupid things now and again. Likewise with games & authors, I think it's really important to distinguish some well-meaning guy, who happens to be a Seattle liberal, from SJWs, Antifa and other such banes on humanity.

*A lot of people are defensively conformist, women especially. I have a female friend who I recall posted a very sensible, insightful post about male/female difference (I think it was re romance) and received a lot of abuse from her SJW 'friends'. Now she only posts left-liberal boilerplate. I have a female work colleague who is pretty darn 'based' in private, but on Facebook is all 'refugees welcome!' So I believe in cutting people some slack. In an age of lies, speaking truth (without anonymity) is an heroic act. And most people are not heroes.

Wow, there were three more replies before I even finished editing my post... :eek:  (I just found a note through the front door from the guy who delivered my food last week, he saw my D&D collection & wants to join my game! I sent him a text.)

Anyway 1989, above quote is my definitive response.

[fearsomepirate]

The nice thing about RPGs is that it's very difficult to make them more political than the group wants them to be. Even with Paizo (apparently) being SJW-run now, there is nothing in the Pathfinder rules stopping you from running a campaign based on liberating a golden-helmed demigod from his infernal prison to destroy the legions of orc refugees ruining the elves' fair land.

[S'mon]

The more of this shit you buy, the more they will be emboldened, and the more it will be explicitly pushed in your face, until you're facing the equivalent of DisneyLand Gay Days. Look at Paizo!

Yeah, Paizo went from nice Seattle liberals 2007-2011 (about where WotC is now), to Full SJW by the end of 2012. Maybe if there had been a concerted customer pushback things would have gone differently. I doubt the typical Pathfinder number-cruncher char-op guy is really a committed SJW...

[John Scott]

The more of this shit you buy, the more they will be emboldened, and the more it will be explicitly pushed in your face, until you're facing the equivalent of DisneyLand Gay Days. Look at Paizo!

Give an inch. Take a mile. It's always like this.

True, so don't buy them. The same thing that you describe is happening with video games *cough* Mass Effect *cough* they let some idiots loose and they fucked up the franchise.

[S'mon]

The nice thing about RPGs is that it's very difficult to make them more political than the group wants them to be. Even with Paizo (apparently) being SJW-run now, there is nothing in the Pathfinder rules stopping you from running a campaign based on liberating a golden-helmed demigod from his infernal prison to destroy the legions of orc refugees ruining the elves' fair land.

Well I think games like MYFAROG or Blue Rose probably have their politics boiled in (I haven't read either & don't intend to, but that's certainly the impression I get). But yes there are lots of games from SJW publishers that are not inherently political. Pathfinder certainly. Even with setting-specific games, often. I rem being lent 'Spirit of the Century' by one of my more hard-left players - I expected it to be at least as strongly hard-Leftist as an Alan Moore comic (V for Vendetta*, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen** etc) but really it was quite bland. A lot of games are like that. Gygaxian D&D has a bit of a Right-Libertarian tone but you certainly don't need to play it that way.

*Incredibly boring
**I quite liked this one!

[jeff37923]

True, so don't buy them.

This^^

Cost of product is also a factor. I think that the paragraph in D&D5E was ham-fisted and unnecessary, so I do not give WotC my money, but I have downloaded and played with their free rules. GenCon is not getting my money or attendance because of their choice to go political. Scalzi gets a pass, because an $8 mass market paperback is a magnitude or several smaller than the +/- $150 cost for the D&D5E books or the +/- $1000 minimum that I would have to spend on GenCon.

[Headless]

S&W looks like a marketing trick, so what? If the game is good, then the game is good. I think that John Scalzi is a complete off-the-rails libtard, but I like what he writes when he writes fiction. It is possible to like the product without liking the producers of that product.

I agree completely except I would change Scalzi for Pundit and Ringo, and 'liking the producers of a product' to 'liking the politics of the producers.'

I think if we met in person I would get along well with a number of people on here.

[S'mon]

This^^

Cost of product is also a factor. I think that the paragraph in D&D5E was ham-fisted and unnecessary, so I do not give WotC my money

I think (from a conservative-ish perspective) that that's an over-reaction to a pretty mild statement, even if they were pandering (and they got as much flak from SJWs as from the Right). I respect your decision but I'm more interested in WoTC not going full-SJW, and I fear the withdrawing of all non-leftist $ at this stage would be more likely to have that effect. Whereas for me Paizo crossed the line with "Erastil can't be Patriarchal, because Patriarchy can't be Good*", and I guess the transgender Iconic Dwarf, though that's mostly just idiotic.
But YMMV.

*A more extreme position than Blue Rose I believe - AFAIK supporters of the rival patriarchal nation in BR can be Good-aligned. Like the Tash-worshipping Calorman in CS Lewis' The Last Battle who ends up in Aslan's Heaven in spite of himself.

[jeff37923]

I think (from a conservative-ish perspective) that that's an over-reaction to a pretty mild statement, even if they were pandering (and they got as much flak from SJWs as from the Right). I respect your decision but I'm more interested in WoTC not going full-SJW, and I fear the withdrawing of all non-leftist $ at this stage would be more likely to have that effect. Whereas for me Paizo crossed the line with "Erastil can't be Patriarchal, because Patriarchy can't be Good*", and I guess the transgender Iconic Dwarf, though that's mostly just idiotic.
But YMMV.

*A more extreme position than Blue Rose I believe - AFAIK supporters of the rival patriarchal nation in BR can be Good-aligned. Like the Tash-worshipping Calorman in CS Lewis' The Last Battle who ends up in Aslan's Heaven in spite of himself.

I should have added that I also felt pretty burnt from the flop that was D&D 4E, but I get your point. It does look like an over-reaction.

[1989]

Wow, there were three more replies before I even finished editing my post... :eek:  (I just found a note through the front door from the guy who delivered my food last week, he saw my D&D collection & wants to join my game! I sent him a text.)

Anyway 1989, above quote is my definitive response.

I am not so charitable as you. I don't believe for a minute that it "just happened" that the visual team ended up almost entirely female. That did not "just happen". When you look at the % of men vs women in the hobby of RPGs, the chance of it "just happening" that you get an essentially all-female visual team ... yeah ... no.

If the authors using S&W for their products would simply refuse to use it, we might eventually see change.

But the outrage hasn't reached critical peak. And D&D5e is selling very well.

Makes me feel I should just give up on RPGs, now that all the major commerical publishers are basically SJW-infested, leaving only small-time operations/POD.