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Author Topic: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?  (Read 4716 times)

oggsmash

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Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« on: December 11, 2020, 05:19:25 PM »
  Reading the election thread, maybe it is time to spitball this one around again.   I can say I would move if it were to happen.  I know lots of people would not care to move, and I think if they are apolitical or feel they can not allow it to affect their lives, so be it.  Could it work?  Before we came to a conclusion it could not be forced in the sense of making people of different political alignment than the new designation move.  I am ok with that, I suspect the left aligned place would use our constitution as a framework and make the adjustments they always wanted to make to the US one.  I think the right aligned would do the same.  People can go where they think it is best for them, or stay where they are and make do, just with an understanding that a framework may be in place where decide to stay that is going to make ideological changes hard to make.

Shasarak

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2020, 08:16:18 PM »
If India and Pakistan can do it then I would say that it is possible.
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EOTB

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2020, 01:45:05 AM »
sadly, I think the idea everyone would just leave each other alone in peace is fantastical.  History doesn’t support peaceful coexistence after the political lines are redrawn.  Globalism isn’t going to settle for half a loaf.  One side believes failure to fully implement its agenda is to deny human rights as redefined in the past couple of decades.  Americans are largely oblivious to what their country has done overseas under the pretense of such rhetoric and would be shocked to find similar force employed against them under the same cover.

The North American continent has not been attacked during the past century because the logistics are horrendous.  But that presumes fighting your way in against a military superpower.  That goes away if you’re allied to a local peer power.  It would be 1600s Europe.  War for oil wouldn’t be something happening somewhere else anymore, and the lack of a Monroe doctrine would open up the Western Hemisphere to gambits of all sorts.

If there was a split it would be dooming the next several generations to 5x the war horror as compared to a single conflict for political control over the same entity, maintaining the same strategic advantages.

Play out the ripple effects and a split doesn’t make anything better.  It’s just kicking a can down the road until it becomes a bomb.  I don’t relish the idea of a civil conflict and hope something better presents itself.  But breakup is a centuries-long nightmare your descendants would be thrust into, cursing those who opted for it. 
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Pat

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2020, 05:54:10 AM »
If India and Pakistan can do it then I would say that it is possible.
The 1947 partition of India led to 14 million refugees and up to 2 million deaths, with neighbors suddenly turning on neighbors with whom they've lived peacefully for centuries. And with only a few exceptions, the provinces they were splitting were far more homogeneous than any possible split of the US, where the groups are far more intermingled.

VisionStorm

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2020, 07:45:34 AM »
Not only would an "amicable divorce" not be possible, or even feasible even if we truly wanted one (how do we even begin to split up the population and WTF is even "Left" and "Right"--does it even matter to the average pleb?), but what the "Great Reset" should be is not up to us, it's up to what our elite overlords decide it will be. And a divided population fighting against each other sounds precisely like what they'd want.

oggsmash

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2020, 09:04:52 AM »
Not only would an "amicable divorce" not be possible, or even feasible even if we truly wanted one (how do we even begin to split up the population and WTF is even "Left" and "Right"--does it even matter to the average pleb?), but what the "Great Reset" should be is not up to us, it's up to what our elite overlords decide it will be. And a divided population fighting against each other sounds precisely like what they'd want.
  I agree about right and left, I honestly have no idea what they mean, but there are some clear lines of disagreement that are never going to be resolved in the country.  I am for presenting this, and if it can not happen, well I guess then we have the really horrible ugly divorce.   I do not think it is tenable down the road, and I agree descendants may not love the idea of a divorce now.  I think, if they are still able to think critically and independently they are likely to be just as pissed with accepting staying together.  An enemy without can be repelled an enemy within will ultimately be the death of any state.  There are people who are more for a global future, including adopting how "global" subjects are treated; meaning slave labor for the middle and working class and a ruling elite that do as they please and pass edicts.  So I surmise you feel the only way to reset the situation is a flat out war?  Or just capitulate and hope our overlords lead us to a brave new world?  I think it goes one way or the other. 

Zirunel

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2020, 11:08:33 AM »
If India and Pakistan can do it then I would say that it is possible.
The 1947 partition of India led to 14 million refugees and up to 2 million deaths, with neighbors suddenly turning on neighbors with whom they've lived peacefully for centuries. And with only a few exceptions, the provinces they were splitting were far more homogeneous than any possible split of the US, where the groups are far more intermingled.

Not to mention the hot and cold wars that have continued since partition down to the present day. Hardly an amicable divorce. Pretty sure Shasarak was joking,  deadpan humour is kinda his style.

VisionStorm

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2020, 12:15:11 PM »
Not only would an "amicable divorce" not be possible, or even feasible even if we truly wanted one (how do we even begin to split up the population and WTF is even "Left" and "Right"--does it even matter to the average pleb?), but what the "Great Reset" should be is not up to us, it's up to what our elite overlords decide it will be. And a divided population fighting against each other sounds precisely like what they'd want.
  I agree about right and left, I honestly have no idea what they mean, but there are some clear lines of disagreement that are never going to be resolved in the country.  I am for presenting this, and if it can not happen, well I guess then we have the really horrible ugly divorce.   I do not think it is tenable down the road, and I agree descendants may not love the idea of a divorce now.  I think, if they are still able to think critically and independently they are likely to be just as pissed with accepting staying together.  An enemy without can be repelled an enemy within will ultimately be the death of any state.  There are people who are more for a global future, including adopting how "global" subjects are treated; meaning slave labor for the middle and working class and a ruling elite that do as they please and pass edicts.  So I surmise you feel the only way to reset the situation is a flat out war?  Or just capitulate and hope our overlords lead us to a brave new world?  I think it goes one way or the other.

I honestly don't think that there's a way out of this other than war (and I don't mean civil war--although that may inevitably come--I mean against the so-called "Deep State" and the "elites"), but people will probably just capitulate and give into out overlords cuz most ordinary people are just mindless sheep. But things have escalated to the point where the President of the Unite States can't end wars or even remove troops anymore. The Presidency is just a figurehead at this point, and this was pretty clear to me since Obama--with his promises of "Hope" and "Change", and repealing the Patriot Art--then when he got into office he just continued Bush's policies and expanded the Patriot Act.

Now Trump tried to get troops out of Afghanistan and they flat out denied him. There's no real representation anymore. We're stuck with an unaccountable bureaucracy.

Ghostmaker

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2020, 12:17:03 PM »
That wound be nice, but it's highly unlikely.

One hundred Sarajevos. That's my prediction.

Pat

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2020, 02:22:02 PM »
Not to mention the hot and cold wars that have continued since partition down to the present day. Hardly an amicable divorce. Pretty sure Shasarak was joking,  deadpan humour is kinda his style.
Agreed, but it was worth expanding on because most people aren't that familiar with the partition of India.

jhkim

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2020, 05:38:24 PM »
But things have escalated to the point where the President of the Unite States can't end wars or even remove troops anymore. The Presidency is just a figurehead at this point, and this was pretty clear to me since Obama--with his promises of "Hope" and "Change", and repealing the Patriot Art--then when he got into office he just continued Bush's policies and expanded the Patriot Act.

Now Trump tried to get troops out of Afghanistan and they flat out denied him. There's no real representation anymore. We're stuck with an unaccountable bureaucracy.

Bush and Obama both significant *expanded* the powers of the presidency -- largely with the approval of Congress. The Patriot Act is an example of Congress giving greater power to the President. My interpretation is that Congress has largely been paralyzed by increased partisanship in recent decades, and thus has been willing to turn more and more power over to the President.

Incidentally, Presidents were never supposed to be able to start or end wars. That's in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). That's been eroding ever since the Korean War, though -- we've never officially had a war since WWII.

The President has indirect control over the bureaucracy, because he appoints the heads of most departments. But that depends on him being able to appoint people who will work with him -- and Trump has had a lot of trouble with that.

EOTB

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2020, 05:59:30 PM »
By definition, unless you can fire at will any person in any department, you do not have control of a department.
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GameDaddy

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2020, 10:56:20 PM »

Bush and Obama both significant *expanded* the powers of the presidency -- largely with the approval of Congress. The Patriot Act is an example of Congress giving greater power to the President. My interpretation is that Congress has largely been paralyzed by increased partisanship in recent decades, and thus has been willing to turn more and more power over to the President.

Gee, seems quite a bit like Imperial Rome in the 5th century, just about a hundred years before it went under. Everything is accelerated with Technology though.

Incidentally, Presidents were never supposed to be able to start or end wars. That's in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). That's been eroding ever since the Korean War, though -- we've never officially had a war since WWII.

This is a problem that won't go away. While Trump reduced forces in Iraq and Afganistan, he significantly increased US military forces in Syria and Africa. Not sure why we are using our great tech on third world countries. Should be saving that for the next real Dixctator like Erdogan, that might go off the rails and need to be clubbed back into the stone age.

The President has indirect control over the bureaucracy, because he appoints the heads of most departments. But that depends on him being able to appoint people who will work with him -- and Trump has had a lot of trouble with that.

Not as much as you would think. I was just talking to folks at my Post Office today, and it seems that luzer Louis DeJoy in charge who is working to cripple our postal system, so he and his rich friends can profit off of that and give us Shite, won't be automatically fired When Biden takes office in January. The Postal Workers weren't happy about that, and expect even more difficulties down the road. Expect your service to suck even more until they get rid of the grifters that call themselves the Board of Governors that are running the US Postal service. Here's a link so you know who is F*&king you... in addition to King Louie, of course.

https://about.usps.com/who/leadership/board-governors/
 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 11:06:03 PM by GameDaddy »
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Pat

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2020, 02:10:49 AM »
But things have escalated to the point where the President of the Unite States can't end wars or even remove troops anymore. The Presidency is just a figurehead at this point, and this was pretty clear to me since Obama--with his promises of "Hope" and "Change", and repealing the Patriot Art--then when he got into office he just continued Bush's policies and expanded the Patriot Act.

Now Trump tried to get troops out of Afghanistan and they flat out denied him. There's no real representation anymore. We're stuck with an unaccountable bureaucracy.

Bush and Obama both significant *expanded* the powers of the presidency -- largely with the approval of Congress. The Patriot Act is an example of Congress giving greater power to the President. My interpretation is that Congress has largely been paralyzed by increased partisanship in recent decades, and thus has been willing to turn more and more power over to the President.

Incidentally, Presidents were never supposed to be able to start or end wars. That's in the Constitution (Article I, Section 8). That's been eroding ever since the Korean War, though -- we've never officially had a war since WWII.
Vice, the bio of Dick Cheney, does a decent job of explaining how power has been shifting to the presidency, with a focus on the "unitary executive" concept. It's a bit superficial, but films always are.

Same is true with treaties. Article 2, Section II: "He [the President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur". Which is why the US rarely signs true treaties anymore. Since WW2, they've largely been replaced with executive agreements, which aren't based on any explicitly enumerated power in the Constitution. It's basically the president's handshake, and can be revoked by any future president.

https://www.thoughtco.com/unitary-executive-theory-the-imperial-presidency-721716

consolcwby

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Re: Should the GREAT RESET be a simple amicable divorce?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2020, 10:19:54 PM »
So, what is everyone going to do when GOD turns out the lights?
https://dailybuzzlive.com/alert-nasa-confirms-earth-will-go-dark-6-days-december/

I keep warning everyone, no one listens... :P
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