RPGPundit's Two-Step Plan

[beejazz]

I played the black dragon set. And I'd be more okay with dumbed-down rules... it just felt like the adventure was dumbed down a bit. I dunno.

[Maddman]

Pundit, I think you're way off.  Not that I think obscure indie games are the way to go either, but the original huge popularity didn't have jack shit to do with the game structure of red box D&D.  It had largely to do with the publicitiy genreated by Pat Pulling and other scaremongers.

How to attract preteens into the hobby?  I don't really care.  Those who are interested will play.  Just make good games and a variety of them and we'll get new players.  If you worry about market research and appealing to the mass market you'll get blandass games.  I don't want the boy-band version of roleplaying games to be dominant.

[RPGPundit]

Pundit, I think you're way off.  Not that I think obscure indie games are the way to go either, but the original huge popularity didn't have jack shit to do with the game structure of red box D&D.  It had largely to do with the publicitiy genreated by Pat Pulling and other scaremongers.

That happened after the fact. D&D had become huge BEFORE Pat Pulling ever came on the scene.  The fanatical detractors usually don't show up until something is popular enough to generate controversy.

Of course, Pulling and co. managed to make D&D even MORE popular than it ever would have been otherwise, I agree.  But they could have just as easily made the AD&D 1e books more popular. Hell, they did do that.
And yet, the basic boxes are the ones that sold. They sold more than the AD&D PHB or DMG.  The D&D basic red boxed set is still the best selling RPG product of all time.

To try to just handwave that all away on a crazy bitch and a bunch of religious fundamentalists, as if they miraculously caused the millions of sales of an otherwise totally unworthy product, demonstrates either a catastrophic lack of historical perspective or a willful denial of reality for your own motives.

RPGPundit

[Gabriel]

That happened after the fact. D&D had become huge BEFORE Pat Pulling ever came on the scene.  The fanatical detractors usually don't show up until something is popular enough to generate controversy.

Yeah, we had a discussion about this a while back.  The truth we agreed on is that D&D and RPGs in general were in decline by the time Pulling came on the scene.  While Pundit optimistically thinks that Pulling made the games more popular, I think the opposite.  I think she was one of the forces which helped kill RPGs and drive them to their present eternal niche state.

It's my opinion that it doesn't matter what anyone does to try and market RPGs.  They will NEVER recover the kind of prominence they had in the early 80s.  There's simply much more for kids to do now and the other options are much more appealing.  

Or, to paraphrase what a friend of mine said when he discovered computer RPGs: "Why would anyone want to play those (tabletop games) when you can just play them on computer?"  For him, the computer RPG delivered all he wanted from gaming without power crazed GMs, flakey players, herding cats to get to the game location, or reading 3 books worth of rules.

[Dr Rotwang!]

My son is going to turn 6 soon ...

[badassity snipped for brevity]

Mr Skach, please report for your medal.

[jrients]

Yeah.  That's cool.  My nephew is 6 and my daughter is 5.  Recently I told my nephew he was 'almost ready for D&D, maybe soon'.  He's psyched.  I plan to run a dungeon crawl with simple rules like I started with.  But with more ninjas and robots.

[Sacrificial Lamb]

That happened after the fact. D&D had become huge BEFORE Pat Pulling ever came on the scene.  The fanatical detractors usually don't show up until something is popular enough to generate controversy.

Of course, Pulling and co. managed to make D&D even MORE popular than it ever would have been otherwise, I agree.  But they could have just as easily made the AD&D 1e books more popular. Hell, they did do that.
And yet, the basic boxes are the ones that sold. They sold more than the AD&D PHB or DMG.  The D&D basic red boxed set is still the best selling RPG product of all time.

To try to just handwave that all away on a crazy bitch and a bunch of religious fundamentalists, as if they miraculously caused the millions of sales of an otherwise totally unworthy product, demonstrates either a catastrophic lack of historical perspective or a willful denial of reality for your own motives.

RPGPundit

When you say "D&D basic red boxed set", do you mean the set containing red booklets with the Larry Elmore picture on the covers depicting a sword and shield-wielding warrior fighting a red dragon on an enormous pile of treasure? I think I have the booklets, but lost the box.

[James McMurray]

That's the set that introduced me to the hobby. I've played older editions, and even a little Chainmail, but that box popped my cherry (figuratively speaking of course).

[RPGPundit]

(figuratively speaking of course).

I should fucking well hope so.

RPGPundit

[Gabriel]

I should fucking well hope so.

Don't you know?  That's what the crayon was for.

[James McMurray]

Is that what it was for? Well crap! I just colored my dice with it.

[PhishStyx]

1. Spike a fucking nailgun into the heads of everyone associated with the Forge, and the ruling clique at RPG.net.

RPGPundit nov 26 2005

If they're brown people, you could probably get George Bush to bomb them. BECAUSE DISSENTING OPINIONS MUST DIE!!!

[Yamo]

If they're brown people, you could probably get George Bush to bomb them. BECAUSE DISSENTING OPINIONS MUST DIE!!!

Looks like somebody doesn't understand hyperbole and other non-literal subtleties of language.

How's that Asperger's working-out for you, Rain Man?

[James McMurray]

I'm pretty sure that, from the Pundit character's viewpoint, that's not hyperbole. While whatever person actually sits at the ketboard may not feel that way, RPGPundit (whose so into ego stroking he capitalizes the first four letters of his name) would probably dance a blogged jig if every member of "the swine" were to fall over dead. Hell, he might even be willing to contract AIDS if it meant he could do them all in the ass and save gaming from the horrible fate that is sure to overrun it if that tiny group of inconsequentials ever manages to overwhelm the aweinspiring greatness that is the sales numbers of traditional RPGs.

[PhishStyx]

Looks like somebody doesn't understand hyperbole and other non-literal subtleties of language.

How's that Asperger's working-out for you, Rain Man?

Is that hyperbole because I just can't tell.

How about we put you at the top of the "nailgun to the head" list?