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Author Topic: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)  (Read 131452 times)

jhkim

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1770 on: June 24, 2022, 03:10:25 AM »
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way. The fire extinguishers was deliberately thrown at the officers' heads to hit them. Some of the other rioters deliberately attacked officers by throwing them down stairs, hitting them with poles, pepper spraying them, etc.

I try to look over my descriptions for bias, but I'm sure I have bias that shows as well. We all do it.

It's fine to point it out in others, but one should own that it's in ourselves and our own side too.

Pat

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1771 on: June 24, 2022, 03:35:25 AM »
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way. The fire extinguishers was deliberately thrown at the officers' heads to hit them. Some of the other rioters deliberately attacked officers by throwing them down stairs, hitting them with poles, pepper spraying them, etc.

I try to look over my descriptions for bias, but I'm sure I have bias that shows as well. We all do it.

It's fine to point it out in others, but one should own that it's in ourselves and our own side too.
No, you're just trying to spin it negatively. Ratman's first sentence describes objects being throw into a crowd. It does not imply that it was an accident, just that it wasn't targeted, and perhaps that it wasn't clear who originated the throw. In the context of a riot, nobody would ever assume that people were just tossing fire extinguishers to each other and oops! someone stepped into the middle. That's a completely unreasonable conclusion.

You're doing what TBP loves to do, which is to interpret what other people say in a way that makes it looks like they're saying something biased or false or terrible. To do it, you're not just assuming bad faith, you're selectively interpreting what they say in the worst possible way. And you're not just acting in bad faith, you're being actively dishonest, because you're ignoring the context that clearly demonstrates your interpretation is wrong. You're doing this to gain an advantage, by making it look like the other person made an argument that's easier to counter than their real argument, or that they said something stupid or offensive that gives you an excuse to dismiss their argument without even addressing it.

You do this all the time, which is why it's impossible to have a good faith discussion with you, and why talking with you becomes an endless series of "no I didn't say that"s.

jeff37923

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1772 on: June 24, 2022, 04:18:51 AM »
Annually there's like one fatal police shooting per every 800 cops or something crazy low like that. https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ (Divide each year by 800,000 US cops.) Likewise, while black people are 2.9 times more likely to be fatally shot according to that site, they also have a disproportionate representation in the violent crime rate almost as high. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/revcoa18.pdf

I'm not saying that there are no racist cops, or that there isn't some degree of such activity in play with the numbers, but they were much more reasonable numbers than I had been led to believe. For violence, rather than outright fatal shootings, the numbers are admittedly a little less balanced, even with violence and likelihood of the recipient of said effects being armed factored in.
Failed to include something showing higher levels of police violence towards equally resisting blacks (and hispanics, apparently). https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399?utm_campaign=ntw&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ntw

Though in police stops they seem about equally likely to be hurt or whatever and they get stopped more often. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/25/study-finds-blacks-arent-more-likely-to-get-hurt-during-police-stops/

So IDK.

Yeah, I find it hard to tell as well. Statistics on policing are very difficult to get truly controlled comparisons - and there are plenty of people on both sides who give mistaken or false impressions. It's very difficult to either prove or disprove racial bias in the field. You noted disproportionate representation in violent crime (i.e. black people tend to be more violent), but that itself is a function of policing. The U.S. legal system gives a wide range of latitude to police and prosecutors about what crimes get charged for given events. The same behavior could be let off with a warning, or they could throw the book at the offender.

From my observation, there is often obvious class bias in policing. A millionaire whose kid goes missing will get lots of attention from officers, while a family in poverty has to wait in line. Racial bias is less visible to me personally, but I know people who spoke of their experience believably.

Further, it's possible for there to be plenty of variety. Different police will have different biases, so local statistics might not match national statistics.

And the obfuscation begins because the facts disagree with the narrative being pushed.
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jeff37923

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1773 on: June 24, 2022, 04:21:18 AM »
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way. The fire extinguishers was deliberately thrown at the officers' heads to hit them. Some of the other rioters deliberately attacked officers by throwing them down stairs, hitting them with poles, pepper spraying them, etc.

I try to look over my descriptions for bias, but I'm sure I have bias that shows as well. We all do it.

It's fine to point it out in others, but one should own that it's in ourselves and our own side too.

Your bias has flown in the face of facts and logic so many times because you want to push a leftist agenda like a social Marxist cheerleader.
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

Shasarak

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1774 on: June 24, 2022, 05:57:56 AM »
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1775 on: June 24, 2022, 06:15:51 AM »
So if Mistwell had just said an officer was "hit" on the head instead of "beat" on the head, then you'd be fine with his statement? That sounds rather hair-splitting compared to other statements in this thread.

I disagree. An unruly event where things are thrown and someone gets hit is bad, but I think someone repeatedly hitting someone over the head is worse.
And I think the choice of beat over hit is rhetorically intentional to make it sound worse.

And you just used rhetoric by describing this in the passive voice as "things are thrown and someone gets hit" -- which implies that it was purely accidental that the officers were hit. The rioters were not playing catch with the fire extinguishers and an officer accidentally got in the way.

There's rhetoric and then there's being pedantic. I can't imagine anyone following this thread thought I was implying that throwing a fire extinguisher during a riot was accidental, or part of a game of catch.
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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1776 on: June 24, 2022, 08:28:09 AM »
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.

Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Chris24601

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1777 on: June 24, 2022, 08:32:19 AM »
There's rhetoric and then there's being pedantic. I can't imagine anyone following this thread thought I was implying that throwing a fire extinguisher during a riot was accidental, or part of a game of catch.
To be a Leftist, one must pretend not to know certain things, even if they were the one who said them just before their latest pivot.

That’s what happens when your purpose for having a discussion isn’t to find truth or genuine consensus, but to try and exert control through their narrative.

I

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1778 on: June 24, 2022, 08:43:28 AM »
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.


Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.

No, he said only 120 million Americans died from Covid.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9NYS53lbk8

He said 150 million Americans died from "gun violence." Since 2007, that is.   Half of the country's population.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mapUtZQwYcU


oggsmash

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1779 on: June 24, 2022, 08:46:12 AM »
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.

Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.

  Well of course you wish that, since they seem to start voting democrat post death or confinement to nursing homes.   

oggsmash

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1780 on: June 24, 2022, 08:49:40 AM »
  The problem with claiming racism in policing...you have to be a literal mind reader to determine this, unless an officer states explicitly his/her racism.   Otherwise you have to use  a disparity in statistics...the problem there is there are disparities in demographic behavior that track right along with those policing disparities that you have to ignore to try to make a point.  I think spending the money and effort to keep Black families intact with fathers would do LOTS more than burning, looting, and murdering.  But given the people who got the massive sum of the money (BLM) are communist lesbians who have a stated goal of dismantling the nuclear family....well..... expect the riots to continues whenever a distraction/lever is needed. 

KindaMeh

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1781 on: June 24, 2022, 09:11:21 AM »
  The problem with claiming racism in policing...you have to be a literal mind reader to determine this, unless an officer states explicitly his/her racism.   Otherwise you have to use  a disparity in statistics...the problem there is there are disparities in demographic behavior that track right along with those policing disparities that you have to ignore to try to make a point.  I think spending the money and effort to keep Black families intact with fathers would do LOTS more than burning, looting, and murdering.  But given the people who got the massive sum of the money (BLM) are communist lesbians who have a stated goal of dismantling the nuclear family....well..... expect the riots to continues whenever a distraction/lever is needed.

I think there’s something to be said for all this.

Ghostmaker

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1782 on: June 24, 2022, 10:08:58 AM »
Watching the TBP freakout over the recent SCOTUS decision to kick New York's gun control laws in the nuts is simultaneously hilarious and horrific.

It's hilarious for the obvious reasons: people running around screaming about Obergefell being next. The irony is that part of the SCOTUS decision hinges on the same legal framework as Obergefell. As one pro-2A blogger put it:

Quote
In Obergefell, the Court decided that the 14th Amendment required that gays be granted equality under the law across state lines, establishing that they do not need to meet any higher standard to have their marriage licenses granted and given full faith and credit.

In NY Rifle & Pistol, the Court decided that the 14th Amendment applied to gun rights and that New York gun owners did not need to meet any higher standard to enjoy their Second Amendment right compared to any other Constitutional right.

In essence, both decisions state that the 14th Amendment means that all rights protected by the Constitution apply equally and a state can’t decide to deny a Constitutional right without due process and that Constitutional rights do not exist on a hierarchy where some rights can only be enjoyed by special privilege.

So how about we all relish in the way they Court has begun applying the 14th Amendment and look for more ways to use it to lift the yoke of government off our backs.

And Leftists, alternatively, attacking the NY Rifle & Pistol decision will pull a thread that unravel Obergefell as well.

It's horrific because now they're talking about how 'we don't need the Supreme Court, disband it'. Wow, guys. Why not just go whole hog, insist the Constitution is a threat to your democracy, and demand it be discarded?

jeff37923

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1783 on: June 24, 2022, 10:14:23 AM »
Jeffy, you're a pussy throwing shit over the net. I hope someday you skip up abd call someone a groomer irl and get your mouth smashed to a bloody pulp you cunt. Millions of people have died of covid and you weren't one of them. That's tragic..

150 million Americans according to Biden.

He never said that you fucking sack of lieing shit.

Altho I wish it had killed a lot more trumpists especially in swing states.

And all you can do is whine about it.....
"I do not want to create a story, I want to create a stage. The player characters will perform on that stage and interact with the setting. When the players talk to their friends about what their characters did, then there will be a story."

rgalex

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Re: RPGnet's decay (TBP madness)
« Reply #1784 on: June 24, 2022, 10:30:34 AM »
It's about to get worse now that Roe has been overturned.  Get ready for riots all weekend long.