RPG.net user points out irony of mods "not wanting to ban people", gets banned

[Shasarak]

Actually, that is not completely agreed upon in Christendom.  In Matthew 5:17 Jesus said in the Bible "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it."  In John 14:15 Jesus says "If you love me, then keep my commandments."

The apostle Paul also spoke to this in the New Testament.

At the end of the day, we are to love the sinner but hate the sin.  We are all guilty of sin and fall short if not for his grace.

There is nothing in the Ten Commandments that calls homosexuality an abomination or even a sin. None. Zero. And those are the only commandments in the Old Testament. Everything else is based on the opinion of the writer of the individual book. Not the word of God.

Commandment 10: Do not covet your neighbors ass

[Kyle Aaron]

This is insanely stupid.  So, Nevander is supposed to never play a game or discuss it that he Kickstarted to the tune of $150 just because some people made sexual assault allegations against the chief writer of the game? Allegations are NOT evidence of guilt.  That is why we have court.

Even if they're proven true, who cares?

Who has the time and interest to dig into the personal lives of everyone involved in the production of their favourite rpg, book, tv show or movie? Where do we draw the line? The writer? The editor? The illustrator? The graphic design guy? If the guy who held the mike during one episode of Firefly turns out to have a stash of kiddy porn, does that mean I have to delete that episode from my computer? If a morally upright bunch of people produce a game, then they die and it's inherited by a neo-Nazi who now gets the royalties, do I have to burn my copies?

Bill once asked me: so if Myaforg were a good game, would you buy it? And as a member of a group who the authour would love to machinegun into a ditch in the Ukraine, I say yes, if it were good I would buy it. The problem with the games of bigots is that they're all shit. Because whenever you produce some piece of media with an ideological aim, rather than the aim of entertaining or educating people, it's going to be shit.

[Batjon]

This is insanely stupid.  So, Nevander is supposed to never play a game or discuss it that he Kickstarted to the tune of $150 just because some people made sexual assault allegations against the chief writer of the game? Allegations are NOT evidence of guilt.  That is why we have court.

Even if they're proven true, who cares?

Who has the time and interest to dig into the personal lives of everyone involved in the production of their favourite rpg, book, tv show or movie? Where do we draw the line? The writer? The editor? The illustrator? The graphic design guy? If the guy who held the mike during one episode of Firefly turns out to have a stash of kiddy porn, does that mean I have to delete that episode from my computer? If a morally upright bunch of people produce a game, then they die and it's inherited by a neo-Nazi who now gets the royalties, do I have to burn my copies?

Bill once asked me: so if Myaforg were a good game, would you buy it? And as a member of a group who the authour would love to machinegun into a ditch in the Ukraine, I say yes, if it were good I would buy it. The problem with the games of bigots is that they're all shit. Because whenever you produce some piece of media with an ideological aim, rather than the aim of entertaining or educating people, it's going to be shit.

EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.  I was just trying to see if the game was a good game and how it compares to Cryptworld.  That doesn't make me a supporter of rape by proxy.

[Spinachcat]

I loved Chill back in the day. Cryptworld is a good retroclone.

However, Kevin Crawford's SILENT LEGIONS is better than both.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions

[Ghostmaker]

I don't think we should guilt trip someone that spent $150 on this game BEFORE any allegations came out for wanting to play the game he heavily invested in because the guy that wrote it ended up being a douche.  That is like never driving a car today because we now know Henry Ford was a racist in the 1800's.

I still own my Chill 3rd Edition products. And I have every intention of making use of those books. I paid good money for them.

But you have to know that The Big Purple has their own behind the scenes reasons for preventing discussion of the products produced by Matt McFarland. For refusing to allow anything even remotely resembling promotion of those products on their site or forums. They have that right as site owners.

Legal reasons, perchance?

[Brad]

I loved Chill back in the day. Cryptworld is a good retroclone.

However, Kevin Crawford's SILENT LEGIONS is better than both.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/145769/Silent-Legions

I have Chill 1st boxed set and Cryptworld in print. What would be the motivating factor to use Silent Legions over one of those? Looks like it's on sale for $25, so I'll pull the trigger if it's worth the price.

EDIT: It's Sine Nomine, so I imagine it's his typical OSR-ification of an existing premise. I like everything he has produced so far, but this one must have just fallen off my radar.

[Abraxus]

I have Chill Third Edition and will stick with that. As it seems from what I can see from the only negative review for Cryptworld the same flaws that edition had are ported over to Cryptworld. With the proposed fix for one of the main flaws is for the GM to fix it. Also not interested in a new rpg that requires houseruling out of the box.

[Mistwell]

This is insanely stupid.  So, Nevander is supposed to never play a game or discuss it that he Kickstarted to the tune of $150 just because some people made sexual assault allegations against the chief writer of the game? Allegations are NOT evidence of guilt.  That is why we have court.  And besides, is he supposed to never play the game because of that guy's stupid behavior? Is he supposed to abandon is $150 of gaming materials and just throw them in the trash? Why does the actions of the chief writer of the game have to overshadow the simple question of is the game any good?

Actually. I was involved in the Kickstarter for the Chill 3rd Edition book, Undead when the controversy hit. It caused me to withdraw my pledge, and to wait for the outcome of the whole affair. But yeah. I was thrown into the middle of that mess.

It was big enough of a thing that it caused rpg.net to de-mod and permanently ban Matt McFarland. And a short time later, they did the same thing to his wife. I don't know their behind the scenes particulars. But the whole thing was a big bad scandal for The Big Purple. That obviously the mods are still very much hot about.

Shortly after that, Matt and his wife closed Growling Door Games. Which was the publisher of the game line. And they left the RPG business behind.

What I'm going to say here is what I personally witnessed on RPG.net at the time. Matt McFarland was confronted by one of his victims in the middle of Tabletop Roleplaying Open. And he admitted to the allegations. Admitted them. There was no mistake. No misunderstanding. What happened was completely undeniable. As in evidence admissible in a court of law.

The reason the products are still for sale on drivethrurpg is that custody of them were given over to Chill's owner. Martin Caron.

Bear in mind. I was a supporter of Chill 3rd Edition. I bought every supplement up until that last one. I liked the game. I thought it had some great aspects. Which as a fan of the 2nd Edition, I really liked it. So withdrawing from that Kickstarter was neither easy nor something I truly desired to do. But I needed the distance.

You notice in that thread, I voiced my desire to get Cryptworld. Which is a retro-clone of Chill 1st edition. And yes, I am going to get it when my budget allows.

I have some sympathy for Nevander in this. I felt the same loss when the Chill 3rd Edition line ended abruptly. It sucks for the fans most of all. They didn't ask for any of this.

But in this case? The Big Purple is correct in the position they have taken on this.

There is a difference between the explanation you just gave, and the way the Big Purple used a heavy handed moderation tactic to put the hammer down on someone who was not aware of that full background and only knew part of it. Explaining like you did, and then telling the user to not separate the author from the work in that context, would have been fine. Having a discussion about the sale of the company to another non-involved party and whether that changes things or not would also be appropriate. But just thwacking them unexpectedly without your kind of explanation doesn't help anyone.

[Darrin Kelley]

That depends on what type of court guidance is involved. They very well could not be able to offer the explanation I did because of court restrictions.

[rytrasmi]

On the one hand, RPG.net's moderation is heavy, arbitrary, and highly politicized. It's disgusting, I agree.

On the other hand, the amount of non-RPG related threads over there is close to zero.

Is it possible to support free speech while wanting to see all the anti-SJW threads contained? The main pen-and-paper section is filled with this stuff.

Anyway, pardon any offense, I'm new here.

[Spinachcat]

It pisses me off when anything that leftists don't like gets called "alt-right"

I realized a long time ago I looked good in a black hat.

Yes, its incredibly dangerous to society for "anyone we dislike = Nazi" to become normalized because (a) it silences free speech and vilifies intellectual diversity, and (b) it creates confusion and over time, real evil (like actual Nazism) could use that confusion to move unhindered because of the soys that cried wolf. 

But that's only a concern if there's a society much longer.

However, in the meantime, don't let it piss you off because I doubt the majority of independents think conservative are Nazis, regardless of the media noise and the tard screeching.

[tenbones]

On the one hand, RPG.net's moderation is heavy, arbitrary, and highly politicized. It's disgusting, I agree.

On the other hand, the amount of non-RPG related threads over there is close to zero.

Is it possible to support free speech while wanting to see all the anti-SJW threads contained? The main pen-and-paper section is filled with this stuff.

Anyway, pardon any offense, I'm new here.

No need to apologize. You're **PARSECS** away from offending anyone here. HAHAHAHAHAHA

The problem with RPGnet (among many many many things) is the idea of curtailing free-speech is only a side-effect of their desire to control you. And if they can't control you, they'd just as soon set you on fire. But since they can't do that, they'll just ban you.

[Spinachcat]

Welcome aboard rytrasmi!!

Is it possible to support free speech while wanting to see all the anti-SJW threads contained?

That's an issue that we've talked about A LOT, especially in the past year.

Here's where we're at currently.

1) Pure political / culture war threads are in RPGPundit's personal forum. That's the mosh pit for people who want to discuss non-RPG issues. It's a glorious shitfest.

2) The main forum is for RPGs...but unfortunately, the clown brigade is trying to drown our hobby in dumb and now we've got shit in our shinola so the RPG topics suddenly become culture wars.

3) RPGPundit - to whom I'm incredibly grateful - wants RPG culture war threads to be on the main forum, but he wants these threads to remain focused on the particular topic and not free range into general politics. That rule has been a mixed bag and it's what will eventually get me banned. Heavy handed moderation is easy, balancing free speech with keeping forums focused is much harder. 

Here's my best advice:
1) Start threads that interest YOU and moderate them yourself. If people are going off topic too much, reign in your own thread. While thread drift is inevitable, we forum weirdos also have an odd habit of returning to the main topic after a few dozen shitshow pages.

2) If you're in a thread you enjoy that's going off topic, either suggest the thread be moved to RPGPundit's forum OR just post back on the topic to encourage others to refocus. If that doesn't work, feel free to start a similar thread about the aspect of the topic that most interested you.

But remember, your favorite game suxxors, unless its also my favorite game, but in that case, you're playing it wrong!!

[Darrin Kelley]

Legal reasons, perchance?

More than likely.

[Trond]

And that's why I left.  At one time it used to be a good place to talk about RPGs but that was long, long, ago.

When would you say it went down the drain? I distinctly remember this bullshit as far back as 2010. It was already quite pervasive, with feminist bullies even managing to drive out one of the women on the site.