RPG.net's 2-week U..S politics discussion hiatus...purpose?

[Stephen Tannhauser]

Very well said, sir.

Much obliged!

[Ratman_tf]

Well, that announcement doesn't seem so bad. I don't think it's one to provoke bannings (unlike the deliberately provocative Wyzard posts we've seen recently).

Not so bad, but still cray.

"Harm to our users". Jesus fuck. They better ferret out the users who wish harm on others! It could be anyone! Your next door neighbor could be a Commie/Jew/Nazi, you know.

[Abraxus]

Ex-Posters like Zeea and some here and elsewhere I call the Internet equivalent of social chameleons. To your face they are nice, when your not there they will talk thrash behind your back. We have some posters here when it suits them to post, and respond to topics. Acting like they are just like everyone else. When it suits them they lash out calling this place worse than rpg.net. Trying to pass themselves off as martyrs to the cause and how horrible we are and how much they are suffering by posting here, why do they still do and other forums are better. At this point to even think that is suffering from mental illness, trolling or both. Anyone being objective can see that TBP is the worst of the two forums. This place is far from perfect yes to the social chameleons who want to play both sides or worse to be part of the cool kids club, they will spout what you and I want to hear and throw away and all self-respect for fear of being banned from a forum.

[WanderingMonster]

For a site that prides itself on being a safe space RPG.net sure does attract a lot of bullies to its mod corps.

This is one of the most true statements I've read about that place and it echoes the feeling I've had myself for quite some time now. I fear the day when they make the user "Crinos" a mod there; he will be absolutely insufferable and that will be the straw that breaks this particular camel's back.

[Warboss Squee]

Ex-Posters like Zeea and some here and elsewhere I call the Internet equivalent of social chameleons. To your face they are nice, when your not there they will talk thrash behind your back. We have some posters here when it suits them to post, and respond to topics. Acting like they are just like everyone else. When it suits them they lash out calling this place worse than rpg.net. Trying to pass themselves off as martyrs to the cause and how horrible we are and how much they are suffering by posting here, why do they still do and other forums are better. At this point to even think that is suffering from mental illness, trolling or both. Anyone being objective can see that TBP is the worst of the two forums. This place is far from perfect yes to the social chameleons who want to play both sides or worse to be part of the cool kids club, they will spout what you and I want to hear and throw away and all self-respect for fear of being banned from a forum.

We just call those kind of folks shallow and needy where I come from.

[Shasarak]

I miss the days when Zeea posted here and wasn't completely bugfuck.

Yeah who is going to protect us against Nazis?  

[Mordred Pendragon]

Yeah who is going to protect us against Nazis?  

I dunno, Pundit has probably done more to fight internet Nazis than that transtrender Zeea.

He gave 5 Stone Games and several other hardcore White Nationalists the boot and while Alathon has not been banned yet, he has been warned and has been posting a lot less since then.

[CarlD.]

The interesting thing is that Z. hits exactly the same note I thought of, above, by saying that a gaming forum "absolutely cannot be anyone's sole source of human interaction, emotional support, or psychological stability. It just can't be relied on as a pillar of anyone's mental health."  That Western society has become a place where such things can happen is a turn straight out of classic dystopian SF, and I'm pleased to see people across the political spectrum beginning to realize this.

At the same time, dishearteningly, Z. keeps right on committing the fundamental error of the philosophy that made this neurotic attachment possible in the first place, by saying, "We are also aware that certain movements intend harm to our users. We want to be welcoming to a wide variety of people, and doing so means we have to exclude hate group members and others who would make this place dangerous and unwelcoming."  The mistake of conflating unwelcoming with dangerous, of characterizing political disagreement as "intending harm", only reinforces the belief that the best way to prevent philosophical conflict devolving into physical conflict, or producing physically traumatic effects, is to prevent any philosophical conflict arising at all -- which ultimately produces psyches incapable of surviving outside a mentally sterile "safe space" and is exactly what drives people to overinvest in places like TBP to begin with.

It's not unreasonable to not want a-holes to ruin your party. But it is unreasonable not to realize that it's not just your party and your attempt to make it so may be ruining someone else's; and it's hypocritical to claim the right not to care about someone else's feelings while still insisting they have a duty to respect yours.

It almost reads like a testing about making the political ban permanent or the rules decidedly stricter (and an excuse for more mod asshole behavior). I agree it is reinforcing that "Only we can protect you from the nasty nasty outside world" vibe.

[MWMattei]

It's amazing how toxic the debate can be between the two extremes of leftists and far leftists.

[Stephen Tannhauser]

I agree it is reinforcing that "Only we can protect you from the nasty nasty outside world" vibe.

Not so much an "Only We" argument, I think, but more a fatal -- and, I would not be surprised to learn, not even really conscious -- acceptance of the basic principle of "You Need Protection from the Nasty Nasty World (or even Encountering Its Nasty Nasty Ideas) and Have a Right To It."

I understand being unhappy when a community you used to love suddenly turns hostile to you and your values, and destroys the positive experience of it; I understand taking steps to try to maintain your community if you think some of its members are trying to do exactly this to others. But you don't get to shift the goalposts about what counts as "tolerable levels of conflict" depending on which side of the circle you're on, and you don't have a right to a community that only changes as you do.

[CarlD.]

Not so much an "Only We" argument, I think, but more a fatal -- and, I would not be surprised to learn, not even really conscious -- acceptance of the basic principle of "You Need Protection from the Nasty Nasty World (or even Encountering Its Nasty Nasty Ideas) and Have a Right To It."

The post read as more emphasizing a sort of dependence, or at least quite encouragement for more butt kissing to me but Mileage will Vary. I may be biased by the feeling that most Mod posts there are some form of self back patting, pushing for praise and power tripping.

I understand being unhappy when a community you used to love suddenly turns hostile to you and your values, and destroys the positive experience of it; I understand taking steps to try to maintain your community if you think some of its members are trying to do exactly this to others. But you don't get to shift the goalposts about what counts as "tolerable levels of conflict" depending on which side of the circle you're on, and you don't have a right to a community that only changes as you do.

Is that last paragraph directed at me? I'm not and never have been a part of the rpgnet/tang community just an amused and some disturbed lurker as I on a few boards.

[Mordred Pendragon]

This video is meant to make fun of the janitors (mods) on 4chan but the same jokes apply to RPGnet's mods even more. Replace "anime image board" with "pretend elf game forum"

[video=youtube;pEg2idsBew4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEg2idsBew4[/youtube]

[Stephen Tannhauser]

Is that last paragraph directed at me? I'm not and never have been a part of the rpgnet/tang community just an amused and some disturbed lurker as I on a few boards.

Oh no, not at all; apologies if you thought it was. It wasn't even meant as an insult, really -- more a sort of sad rumination on how when people love and invest in a community, it's the very desire to preserve it as they first fell in love with it that drives them to take the actions which ultimately destroy it.

I was actually remembering my own experience as someone who loved the TBP community and got a great deal of entertainment, information and useful learning out of it, but gradually found it more and more unconscionable in its intentional ostracization of views and opinions like mine while still claiming to be about "tolerance" and "understanding". The tragedy was that they became so determined to expel genuinely malicious actors that they wound up being willing to expel merely those who defended the conditions that enabled those bad actors, like free speech or free criticism of popular ideas. And since objecting to banning on such grounds was ipso facto proof of deserving such banning, I simply cut out the middleman and stopped posting of my own accord. I don't delude myself anybody missed me, but a community which doesn't miss anyone leaving it is another manifestation of the same problem.

Hence the metaphor of creating the truly sterile "safe space" environment to render a community as safe as possible from certain contagious, toxic, and painful thoughts, without realizing that whatever peace and relief this buys comes only at the cost of depriving the inhabitants of the psychological immune system they'll need to endure those thoughts anywhere else.

[Tait Ransom]

I was actually remembering my own experience as someone who loved the TBP community and got a great deal of entertainment, information and useful learning out of it, but gradually found it more and more unconscionable in its intentional ostracization of views and opinions like mine while still claiming to be about "tolerance" and "understanding". The tragedy was that they became so determined to expel genuinely malicious actors that they wound up being willing to expel merely those who defended the conditions that enabled those bad actors, like free speech or free criticism of popular ideas. And since objecting to banning on such grounds was ipso facto proof of deserving such banning, I simply cut out the middleman and stopped posting of my own accord. I don't delude myself anybody missed me, but a community which doesn't miss anyone leaving it is another manifestation of the same problem.

You've summed up my take and experience very well, unfortunately.

[Armchair Gamer]

Not so much an "Only We" argument, I think, but more a fatal -- and, I would not be surprised to learn, not even really conscious -- acceptance of the basic principle of "You Need Protection from the Nasty Nasty World (or even Encountering Its Nasty Nasty Ideas) and Have a Right To It."

 It sounds like at least some of them have a 'this is our only refuge' feeling:

In all seriousness, I think the site has a fundamental problem in that it is essentially the only big name nerd site I'm aware of which is a forum in the old style and not ABSOLUTELY RIDDLED with Nazis, Trumpists, "race realists," transphobes, Gamergaters, and people who will mockingly reply to discussion of reparations for slavery with demands the Muslim world pay reparations for slavery to Eastern Europe. Our subculture is in a bad place right now, and RPGNet is an oasis even if you're not especially invested in the elfgame focus of the site.

What I'm saying is I think RPGNet may WANT to be an elfgames first site with all else secondary, but it's been pushed into the no doubt unwelcome position of being a lot of people's only non-AWFUL nerd space. An island of comparative calm and solidarity in a sea of bile and hatred. I know it's not incumbent on the site to BE that, but I suspect that's a lot of why it's popular of late.