Request: This is why we don't like you.

[Rincewind1]

Thanks a lot, CRKrueger.

Thanks a lot.

[crkrueger]

Thanks a lot, CRKrueger.

Thanks a lot.

Oh bah, we had 7 threads on this SJW crap, and the "archive thread" was Pundit's idea.

[RPGPundit]

So, now we're not only the RPGnet refugee club, but the mirror-Grognards.txt?

Sad days indeed.

I'd briefly considered naming the thread "Swine.txt", but then thought better of it.

The difference is that this thread is not meant to be a "Hur hur look how dumb they are", or even a "condemn these terrible people in public!" thread; that's why NO COMMENTS at all are allowed on that thread.
The thread is meant to be a place to archive certain posts that the authors are very likely to later delete and deny, pretending they never existed or altering the original content.

It's a thread to hold on to historical truth.

[RPGPundit]

You can't take the high road if you're doing the same thing.

The Swine LOVE it when the other side "takes the high road". They DEPEND on it. They depend on the other side saying "well, I'm not going to report you because I don't tattle", while they get everyone on your side banned by a flood of frivolous mod-reports.  They depend on the other side saying "well, I'm not going to hurl insults at these people or engage with them" while they take over the whole focus of the discussion.  They depend on the other side saying "I don't like the jargon they use so I won't make any of my own as that would be the same bad behaviour as them" while they end up taking control of language as a way to artificially control the entire conversation.  They depend on you saying "I won't write to Wizards of the Coast to support their choice of consultants" while they write hundreds of emails each in order to create the impression of a flood of outrage.  They depend totally on your side saying "I won't stoop to say mean things or attack them because I'm above it all", while they stab you in the back and kick you when you're on the ground and take over everything in the hobby in the process.

FUCK the high road.   I could be twice as shitty as I am now and still be ten times more honorable than they are: I don't just Make Shit Up, I tell the truth about them. I don't send death threats. I don't attack or harass my opponent's seriously ill partner.  I don't make up horrific fucking lies.  I don't pretend I want to debate and then run away and make up lies to make my opponent look bad.

But within those rules of honor, I will be quite happy to use any rhetorical tactic they use against us. I will be as aggressive in my defense of the RPG Hobby as they are in their brutal assault on it.

[RPGPundit]

I just want to talk about rpgs and mostly the fun stuff like the settings, monsters, and general DM advice.  Seriously this bullshit drama about DnD 5th edition is wearing me out.

Gee, I'm sorry you feel vaguely tired about an entire group of people's ongoing and concerted effort to publicly LIE about me and FALSELY paint me as a homophobe, racist and sexist to try to make sure I NEVER WORK AGAIN in the rpg field.

I'm sorry it's inconveniencing you so much.

[One Horse Town]

I'd briefly considered naming the thread "Swine.txt", but then thought better of it.

The difference is that this thread is not meant to be a "Hur hur look how dumb they are", or even a "condemn these terrible people in public!" thread; that's why NO COMMENTS at all are allowed on that thread.
The thread is meant to be a place to archive certain posts that the authors are very likely to later delete and deny, pretending they never existed or altering the original content.

It's a thread to hold on to historical truth.

I can understand that as you've been under sustained attack.

[Sacrosanct]

I am not saying you don't have a right to protect or defend yourself.  I'm saying creating a mirror of grognard.txt (because we all know that's what's going to happen in spite of any initial intention you might have) isn't going to win anyone over to your side and at this point I'm out of that particular discussion.  


And you might want to change your slogan for this site too while your at it.

"A forum for discussing roleplaying games and anything the outrage brigade says."

But hey, your forum.  I just think it's odd that you sold this site on being on the high road (talk about RPGs and not tangency), and now I guess it's no longer the case.

[arminius]

I think lack of commentary is worse in a way. It's one of the things that's obnoxious and offputting about g.txt--just posting things that you're "obviously" supposed to see as wrong without providing any argument why. Also, without commentary people post stuff and don't have to justify why it's there. I think this may have encouraged the toxic development of g.txt since people may have been disinclined to question questionable submissions. That made it easy to use for score-settling and defamation.

An archive doesn't need to be google-searchable, it just needs to be available if someone wants to point someone to it. It saves work and protects against loss of information.

In short this is more than an archive, it's a mirror of g.txt and I think it's more of a rhetorical/PR negative than positive.

[Warthur]

I'm not using my own blog for reasons so obvious I'm surprised you'd even bring that up. It wastes time to bring that up.

You can ignore a thread, but going "ooh, new D&DWPS today!" and seeing more legal documentation is pointless.

If you want this stuff to be actually legally airtight this is entirely the wrong way to go about it.

Again-that's me doing extra work.

Setting up a tumblr takes a trivial amount of time if you don't care about giving it a fancy-pants design (and clearly for this purpose it doesn't need one), and it'll actively save time when it comes to archiving stuff people say on tumblr - which I note is where a substantial amount of the stuff that's been kicked off by FailForward is going down.

[Zak S]

If you want this stuff to be actually legally airtight this is entirely the wrong way to go about it.

If you have legal advice pm me. So far the lawyers I've talked to are like "yeah, do that"

[Will]

I wonder if there's much point.

By the time you get to the stage where people are accusing you of duplicity and finding themselves out on a limb, what's going to stop them from claiming the 'copies' are edited or fabricated?

[Zak S]

I wonder if there's much point.

By the time you get to the stage where people are accusing you of duplicity and finding themselves out on a limb, what's going to stop them from claiming the 'copies' are edited or fabricated?

If they claim it's fabricated then they are claiming they didn't say it and wouldn't say it, which means they don't stand by it, which means they're effectively saying it was a bad thing to say, in public.

Which is fine. That's what they should do now.

[Dan Vince]

I would be surprised if therpgsite had more Google leverage than your own blog. And as long as the thread's on this site then it's going to be diluted by people posting nonsense about their own personal slapfights.

If you don't want to contaminate your blog with it, I suggest getting a tumblr. Those are more or less designed to repost stuff people have put elsewhere, and once someone's post has been saved to your tumblr then it stays there even if they delete it on theirs later on.

I don't use Tumblr, but I take it the archival feature is an automated process managed by whatever third party owns/operates Tumblr? It seems to me that would aid authentication if you're archiving the offending posts for the purpose of litigation.

[Novastar]

Having some more time to think about it (3 hour drive back and forth to a rural school), I have to admit I am worried about the thread turning into another grognards.txt

I'm not above blame there, either (obviously, I posted several times in the thread). And I think I'd still stick by having quotes from OblivionNinja (who made death threats) and Technoxtreme (libelous comments), but stuff like "no personal attacks! Unless it's James D, RPGPundit, or Zak S..." probably could be removed. There's a world of difference between "being a weeny", and making death threats or libelous statements.

I dunno, Pundit and Zak. At the end of the day, it's going to be a full-time job making sure what's put in there is 1) valid, and 2) actionable

To say nothing of cataloguing the huge backlog of shitty things said prior to the existence of the thread. The Gaming Den has already taken steps to remove all the instances where Mandy was referred to as "Zak's ****bag". It was there, we know it was there, but now it's gone, so what are you going to do?

It's highly annoying, I'll agree, especially being under constant attack by people who will lie, slander, and erase incriminating comments, to "win".

But even with the help of the largest RPG board on the planet, they had to stifle discussion on the subject, lest their already damaged credibility be completely squandered.

They're spent and they know it. That's why they're repeating the lie over and over again, like a mantra. They pray that repetition will make it stick, but most everyone has heard it by now, and enough people have raised doubt to make it wasted effort. That's why Tracy was so desperate for her "Gotcha!" moment; it gave her another week of Internet fame.

I suppose it comes down to the difference of Producers and Critics. You guys make things, things that people use. Critics just tear shit down.

A 'critic' is a man who creates nothing and thereby feels qualified to judge the work of creative men. There is logic in this; he is unbiased—he hates all creative people equally.

[Arkansan]

If you have legal advice pm me. So far the lawyers I've talked to are like "yeah, do that"

Simple curiosity here but is it looking like this is going to escalate to the point of legal action? I mean I agree with the thought of archiving all their bullshit regardless but I haven't had time to read every thread and post involved in this mess. I was wondering if I had missed something particularly horrific that had made people consider taking more substantial action.