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Author Topic: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!  (Read 3460 times)

Ratman_tf

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2020, 05:08:48 PM »
No, tribalism is when your reactions are based on team colors, not logic. Which is what appears to be the case, because nobody's addressed my central thesis: That Rand Paul falsely claimed he would have died, without police intervention.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/30/us/portland-shooting-protests.html

I don't blame Rand Paul for being afraid and thinking the mob were going to escalate to deadly force.
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Melichor

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2020, 05:09:55 PM »
It's false because he's making a very strong statement about something that was unlikely to happen. It's equivalent to saying "The ball would have landed on 00, if the roulette table wasn't jostled." The accurate statement would have been "there's a chance I could have won", or in Paul's case, something like "it was a dangerous situation" or "I feared for my life", not "I don't think we would have survived.


Nobody expects to be assaulted in their own yard either...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sen-rand-paul-assaulted-his-kentucky-home-suspect-arrested-n817591


In his case I think previous experience allows him some license to exaggerate. Especially since his wife was there and considering the violent escalations in the days prior.

EOTB

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2020, 05:32:36 PM »
The reason libertarianism is a late-comer on the political theory scene is because individualists who didn’t form tribes died in a violent world. It is a should-be philosophy
I don't entirely agree, but I think that's an interesting argument. How do you rationalize it with classical liberalism? Classical liberalism is more less equivalent with modern libertarianism, but emerged in the 17th century, and became the prevailing philosophy in the West in the 19th century. It was rooted in the individualist thinking of the Enlightenment, and can be construed as the framework that enabled the vast growth in personal wealth and modern technological progress over the last few centuries. But if you buy into the rationale of Haidt in The Righteous Mind, that's a very new and alien way of thinking. Which is why so many social experiments using college students seem to apply so poorly to the rest of the world, or history.


I made a post in the “now they’re coming for your books” thread that is my opinion on this.  What you call “classical liberalism”, I call “scissors”
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HappyDaze

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2020, 06:14:56 PM »
What you call “classical liberalism”, I call “scissors”
So when the other guy runs with classic liberalism, you keep watching and waiting for him to fall?

Pat
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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2020, 06:21:19 PM »
I don't blame Rand Paul for being afraid and thinking the mob were going to escalate to deadly force.
In his case I think previous experience allows him some license to exaggerate. Especially since his wife was there and considering the violent escalations in the days prior.
I've never blamed him for his actions during the event, just his interview after. Though I also think it's pretty clear from his reaction that he's never been in a situation like that, and has no real priors to put it in context. If the greatest physical danger he's faced in his life is a 60 year old neighbor tackling him over a lawn dispute, that could explain why he tried to turn shouting and shoving into a zombie apocalypse.

EOTB

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2020, 06:57:06 PM »
Also, lest we forget (and I had forgotten), Rand Paul was at the baseball game in 2016 where a nut opened fire on members of Congress and almost killed Steve Scalise. 
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Ratman_tf

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2020, 07:10:29 PM »
I don't blame Rand Paul for being afraid and thinking the mob were going to escalate to deadly force.
In his case I think previous experience allows him some license to exaggerate. Especially since his wife was there and considering the violent escalations in the days prior.
I've never blamed him for his actions during the event, just his interview after. Though I also think it's pretty clear from his reaction that he's never been in a situation like that, and has no real priors to put it in context. If the greatest physical danger he's faced in his life is a 60 year old neighbor tackling him over a lawn dispute, that could explain why he tried to turn shouting and shoving into a zombie apocalypse.


Nice hyperbole. If you want to criticize Rand Paul for it, you might want to lay off it yourself.
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Steven Mitchell

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2020, 07:16:43 PM »
Also, lest we forget (and I had forgotten), Rand Paul was at the baseball game in 2016 where a nut opened fire on members of Congress and almost killed Steve Scalise.
That is one of the previous events I was referring to.  Not only was there, he possibly saved Scalise's life.  He is a physician.  I think it is safe to say his experience with violence and injury is a little more extensive than Ivory Tower Pat credits. 

He also gets death threats often, and has more than one celebrity complains about his neighbor not finishing the job. 

Pat, you have some interesting things to say.  Your analysis of other people's motive and nature sucks.  Maybe you should focus on telling us what you think and leave the psychoanalysis to people with more skill and insight.

Pat
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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2020, 07:17:29 PM »
Nice hyperbole. If you want to criticize Rand Paul for it, you might want to lay off it yourself.
Why? They're not comparable. He was seriously stating that he would have died, without the cops, in a political appearance. I'm on an antiswinegame forum, comparing rioters to brain-eating zombies.

Pat
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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2020, 07:36:34 PM »
Also, lest we forget (and I had forgotten), Rand Paul was at the baseball game in 2016 where a nut opened fire on members of Congress and almost killed Steve Scalise.
That is one of the previous events I was referring to.  Not only was there, he possibly saved Scalise's life.  He is a physician.  I think it is safe to say his experience with violence and injury is a little more extensive than Ivory Tower Pat credits. 

He also gets death threats often, and has more than one celebrity complains about his neighbor not finishing the job. 

Pat, you have some interesting things to say.  Your analysis of other people's motive and nature sucks.  Maybe you should focus on telling us what you think and leave the psychoanalysis to people with more skill and insight.
You might want to look in the mirror. With two exceptions, I'm not the one analyzing other people's motives and natures. That's what you and the other posters have been doing about me, and you've been doing a staggeringly bad job at it.

Exception 1 is my assumption that most of the replies are based on tribalism. Which I made clear was an assumption, laid out my reasons, and only posted after a series of irrational replies. That's a courtesy the peanut gallery never gave me.

Exception 2 is my claim that Paul's statement was political theater. Which nobody contested with an argument, just personal attacks against me, or attacks against things I never said nor do I believe. (Likely tribalism; see exception 1.) The only person who provided a response that addressed my point didn't even defend the accuracy of what Paul said, but just said that Paul was justified in overreacting because of two prior incidents where he was attacked or witnessed violence. I agree that may have been why he overreacted. In fact, if you go back, and look at my original post, I made the point that Paul seemed completely out of his element, which sets the stage for that interpreation. But that doesn't fundamentally address my criticism. It's still a sensational, overwrought, misleading piece. The question is just whether it's deliberately staged, or whether Paul is just irrational because he's led a sheltered existence. I suspect it's in the middle, because he is a politician after all, and he had time to reflect before the interview. This wasn't a man-in-the-moment type of statement.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2020, 08:06:49 PM »
Nice hyperbole. If you want to criticize Rand Paul for it, you might want to lay off it yourself.
Why? They're not comparable. He was seriously stating that he would have died, without the cops, in a political appearance. I'm on an antiswinegame forum, comparing rioters to brain-eating zombies.


Just for consistency's sake.


Regardless I think Rand Paul's comments were warranted, considering the escalation of violence and outright killings that have happened in these riots.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Pat
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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2020, 08:14:39 PM »
Regardless I think Rand Paul's comments were warranted, considering the escalation of violence and outright killings that have happened in these riots.
I think they're not, for the reasons I listed. But I appreciate you and the couple other posters who managed to disagree without making personal attacks or making up things I never said.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2020, 08:53:13 PM »
You might want to look in the mirror. With two exceptions, I'm not the one analyzing other people's motives and natures. That's what you and the other posters have been doing about me, and you've been doing a staggeringly bad job at it.

Go back and read it again.  The closest I came to analyzing your motives was to make a couple of speculations then say it was something like that or clearly something else that wasn't clear. 

You insist everyone else follow a standard you don't live up to.  Your words should be read in the most charitable light possible.  Everyone else's words get your pedantic parsing.  Grow up.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2020, 08:54:37 PM »
That's the last I have to say about Pat in this topic.

Pat
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Re: Republican Senator Rand Paul and his Wife Threatened By BLM Mobs!
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2020, 09:12:32 PM »
Go back and read it again.  The closest I came to analyzing your motives was to make a couple of speculations then say it was something like that or clearly something else that wasn't clear. 

You insist everyone else follow a standard you don't live up to.  Your words should be read in the most charitable light possible.  Everyone else's words get your pedantic parsing.  Grow up.
"It's clear that your blind spot on this or your animosity towards Paul".

That's your words, speculating on my motives. It's not hard to avoid that, all you have to do is address what I said, not wrap a narrative around it and tell me what I think or feel. The rest of your post is also a lie. I hold everyone to the same standards, and I stand by what I say, not the imaginary things you accuse of me of.