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Author Topic: Remember the slenderman stabbing?  (Read 2461 times)

KindaMeh

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2022, 12:48:50 PM »
In Jeff’s defense on this thread, while I don’t love the personal attacks that get thrown in fights between you and folks like him on the board, much though I can appreciate the freedom of speech it illustrates…

No personal attacks were launched in this thread, and his posts were on topic.

I also kinda  agree that the average Trump voter may not be as bad as you make them out to be. To say nothing of the right wing more generally.

Though I feel like the answer to the sick animal question may in part have to do with their status as human beings, and the idea that acting uninformed or misinformed and thereby causing damage is not necessarily evidence of moral wrongdoing so much as incompetence. Of which many are guilty in their beliefs, political or otherwise, and should not perhaps be killed for it despite the damage those beliefs can cause. Likewise, many believe that you shouldn’t kill those who aren’t actually malevolent or who seem “innocent” in their moral intentions. Not saying the defense always holds if a person’s life is actively and imminently in danger, but I do get it.

jeff37923

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2022, 12:51:07 PM »
Aaand then there's the usual talking cumstain shitlord fucktards....  ::)

Hey, people wouldn't think that you are full of shit if you could just answer a few simple questions. You'll never be able to shake your Trump Derangement Syndrome, though. You are an excellent example of media brainwashing in action, though.
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KindaMeh

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2022, 12:54:12 PM »
Wow, kindameh, this is my day for agreeing with people here.  8)

Your post showed more education and  awareness of mental illness issues, not to mention higher levels of wisdom and intelligence, than most lawmakers, political talking heads, 'influencers '' and 'experts' in the field show.

I am very impressed.

Thanks. IDK if my post or I truly deserve it, but I do appreciate it. As well as some of the points you yourself made about victimization within that demographic.

This is an interesting and solid thread, and I totally had forgotten about its originating event prior to your bringing it up. Brings back some weird memories.

jeff37923

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2022, 12:58:55 PM »
This is why we have a criminal justice system.
Though I feel like the answer to the sick animal question may in part have to do with their status as human beings, and the idea that acting uninformed or misinformed and thereby causing damage is not necessarily evidence of moral wrongdoing so much as incompetence. Of which many are guilty in their beliefs, political or otherwise, and should not perhaps be killed for it despite the damage those beliefs can cause. Likewise, many believe that you shouldn’t kill those who aren’t actually malevolent or who seem “innocent” in their moral intentions. Not saying the defense always holds if a person’s life is actively and imminently in danger, but I do get it.

This is why we have a criminal justice system.

I do not believe that a human beings life is innately special or precious. It is dependent on what that human being does with their life that matters. Career criminals should be given the death penalty to keep them from engaging in the revolving door of incarceration without rehabilitation, they have demonstrated that they are unwilling to change and just wish to prey upon the innocent by having a long record of felony convictions. "They didn't know any better", should not be a valid excuse to defend them.

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KindaMeh

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2022, 01:09:17 PM »
This is why we have a criminal justice system.
Though I feel like the answer to the sick animal question may in part have to do with their status as human beings, and the idea that acting uninformed or misinformed and thereby causing damage is not necessarily evidence of moral wrongdoing so much as incompetence. Of which many are guilty in their beliefs, political or otherwise, and should not perhaps be killed for it despite the damage those beliefs can cause. Likewise, many believe that you shouldn’t kill those who aren’t actually malevolent or who seem “innocent” in their moral intentions. Not saying the defense always holds if a person’s life is actively and imminently in danger, but I do get it.

This is why we have a criminal justice system.

I do not believe that a human beings life is innately special or precious. It is dependent on what that human being does with their life that matters. Career criminals should be given the death penalty to keep them from engaging in the revolving door of incarceration without rehabilitation, they have demonstrated that they are unwilling to change and just wish to prey upon the innocent by having a long record of felony convictions. "They didn't know any better", should not be a valid excuse to defend them.

Agreed that due process is important.

Also agreed that harming others can be a justification for being harmed or killed to stop that behavior, and that people should be judged upon their merits, even as their rights and liberties must be legally respected.

I think the death penalty costs a lot as currently actualized, and would need reform in order to be a cost-viable deterrent compared to throwing away the key on career criminals who don’t want to reform. Dunno though, not my area of specialty.

Revolving door prisons are indeed a problem, though IDK if this applies to mental health if basic occasional care and observation and MEDS were to be a mandated conditional to rehabilitation and continued societal participation.

More to the point, most mental health disorders aren’t innately dangerous if you look at the crime statistics minus drug and alcohol abuse overlap numbers. (Go figure, druggies are sketch.) Likewise, treatment is a real solution, and in such instances as folks never got to try it before f-ing up… I feel like they may be more salvageable than career criminals.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 01:12:25 PM by KindaMeh »

Battlemaster

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2022, 01:15:17 PM »
In Jeff’s defense on this thread, while I don’t love the personal attacks that get thrown in fights between you and folks like him on the board, much though I can appreciate the freedom of speech it illustrates…

No personal attacks were launched in this thread, and his posts were on topic.

I also kinda  agree that the average Trump voter may not be as bad as you make them out to be. To say nothing of the right wing more generally.

Though I feel like the answer to the sick animal question may in part have to do with their status as human beings, and the idea that acting uninformed or misinformed and thereby causing damage is not necessarily evidence of moral wrongdoing so much as incompetence. Of which many are guilty in their beliefs, political or otherwise, and should not perhaps be killed for it despite the damage those beliefs can cause. Likewise, many believe that you shouldn’t kill those who aren’t actually malevolent or who seem “innocent” in their moral intentions. Not saying the defense always holds if a person’s life is actively and imminently in danger, but I do get it.

I don't see jeffs posts, I blocked him as his posts were near invariably just shitthrowing. I just decided they likely were and replied in kind.

Edit: I did see his post you were quoting and saw he did not see human life as being of any innate worth. I wasn't surprised ,he comes off as a libertarian ayn rhand type who believes he is superior and would probably be hunting poor homeless people on horseback or from a helicopter if he could get away with it.

Maybe human life  does have no value.  The chinese government sure believes that, so millions of people are basically slave labor in factories from birth to death because their lives are valueless. Dissidents are murdered and their organs sold because the money means more than their lives.

Most people don't want to live in a world where human life has no value. Maybe libertarians with fantasies of being supermen like John Galt want to because they believe they'd be freer in that world, but most people don't want a world like that, so we have laws and religion thru human history. Neither have been perfect solutions but both relfect the desjere of most to have human lives matter. Edit.

I read a very strange sf novel long ago called 'the godwhale' (it was better than the title)  that featured a society basically ran by a super AI that was under an inviolable, absolutely inviolable, command against killing people for any reason at all. Two people wondered about it and were told if the AI,  which was more intelligent than humans, were allowed to kill even only extreme circumstances, it could use it's greater intelligence  to rationalize and justify killing anyone or everyone. So it was hardwired against killing anyone ever period.

In America we have too much rationalized killing of people as is. Passively or actively America kills people daily for rational reasons. People die of easily treatable medical issues because it's rationalized that healthcare corporate profits are more important than human life. People die from unsafe products because manufacturers rationalize a few lawsuits or bribibg judges is more cost effective than making safer products.

I don't want to see killing mentally ill people rationalized. It has to go to bad places.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 01:28:47 PM by Battlemaster »
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

KindaMeh

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2022, 01:37:22 PM »
In Jeff’s defense on this thread, while I don’t love the personal attacks that get thrown in fights between you and folks like him on the board, much though I can appreciate the freedom of speech it illustrates…

No personal attacks were launched in this thread, and his posts were on topic.

I also kinda  agree that the average Trump voter may not be as bad as you make them out to be. To say nothing of the right wing more generally.

Though I feel like the answer to the sick animal question may in part have to do with their status as human beings, and the idea that acting uninformed or misinformed and thereby causing damage is not necessarily evidence of moral wrongdoing so much as incompetence. Of which many are guilty in their beliefs, political or otherwise, and should not perhaps be killed for it despite the damage those beliefs can cause. Likewise, many believe that you shouldn’t kill those who aren’t actually malevolent or who seem “innocent” in their moral intentions. Not saying the defense always holds if a person’s life is actively and imminently in danger, but I do get it.

I don't see jeffs posts, I blocked him as his posts were near invariably just shitthrowing. I just decided they likely were and replied in kind.

Edit: I did see his post you were quoting and saw he did not see human life as being of any innate worth. I wasn't surprised ,he comes off as a libertarian ayn rhand type who believes he is superior and would probably be hunting poor homeless people on horseback or from a helicopter if he could get away with it.

Maybe human life  does have no value.  The chinese government sure believes that, so millions of people are basically slave labor in factories from birth to death because their lives are valueless. Dissidents are murdered and their organs sold because the money means more than their lives.

Most people don't want to live in a world where human life has no value. Maybe libertarians with fantasies of being supermen like John Galt want to because they believe they'd be freer in that world, but most people don't want a world like that, so we have laws and religion thru human history. Neither have been perfect solutions but both relfect the desjere of most to have human lives matter. Edit.

I read a very strange sf novel long ago called 'the godwhale' (it was better than the title)  that featured a society basically ran by a super AI that was under an inviolable, absolutely inviolable, command against killing people for any reason at all. Two people wondered about it and were told if the AI,  which was more intelligent than humans, were allowed to kill even only extreme circumstances, it could use it's greater intelligence  to rationalize and justify killing anyone or everyone. So it was hardwired against killing anyone ever period.

In America we have too much rationalized killing of people as is. Passively or actively America kills people daily for rational reasons. People die of easily treatable medical issues because it's rationalized that healthcare corporate profits are more important than human life. People die from unsafe products because manufacturers rationalize a few lawsuits or bribibg judges is more cost effective than making safer products.

I don't want to see killing mentally ill people rationalized. It has to go to bad places.

I don’t 100% agree with you on everything you say here. (Ex: I don’t believe in passive killing or killing by inaction or failure to save.) In fact I disagree with a bit of the specifics and even some of the overall premise.

 But I acknowledge you have your heart in a decent place, and have firm principles even if they aren’t my own. So I won’t attempt to launch my own ideological blimp here so to speak.

Interesting book premise. May look into it. Does the AI become authoritarian in other ways and the setting distopian? Almost sounds like an autocratic technocrat being given all the power just due to intelligence and knowledge, if life is the only restriction.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 01:41:26 PM by KindaMeh »

Battlemaster

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2022, 01:45:26 PM »
Oh wow, in the godwhale (reff to a giant cybernetic whale meant to gather food from the ocean before the gfood chain utterly collapsed. ) the AI running  the city was a minor character really, more background. The really important AIs were the rorqual maru (godwhale) and her companion AI, called iron trilobyte, which has been maintaining the maru for centuries after earths oceans died abd she was abandoned. Finally rorqual tells trilobyte to take most of her remaining power and search earth for anything that might be useful.  Finding nothing in the oceans, it finally does what humans used to do, it prays for aid via it's high power transmitters.

And something responded, asking what was needed.

Months later life began re appearing in earth's sterile oceans. Was it a god or something else?

As for dystopian, oh man you ain't even CLOSE!  ;D Soylent green meets brave new world meets mad max beyond thunderdome meets metropolis meets silent spring .... Get the idea?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 02:01:59 PM by Battlemaster »
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

jeff37923

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2022, 02:21:16 PM »
In Jeff’s defense on this thread, while I don’t love the personal attacks that get thrown in fights between you and folks like him on the board, much though I can appreciate the freedom of speech it illustrates…

No personal attacks were launched in this thread, and his posts were on topic.

I also kinda  agree that the average Trump voter may not be as bad as you make them out to be. To say nothing of the right wing more generally.

Though I feel like the answer to the sick animal question may in part have to do with their status as human beings, and the idea that acting uninformed or misinformed and thereby causing damage is not necessarily evidence of moral wrongdoing so much as incompetence. Of which many are guilty in their beliefs, political or otherwise, and should not perhaps be killed for it despite the damage those beliefs can cause. Likewise, many believe that you shouldn’t kill those who aren’t actually malevolent or who seem “innocent” in their moral intentions. Not saying the defense always holds if a person’s life is actively and imminently in danger, but I do get it.

I don't see jeffs posts, I blocked him as his posts were near invariably just shitthrowing. I just decided they likely were and replied in kind.

Edit: I did see his post you were quoting and saw he did not see human life as being of any innate worth. I wasn't surprised ,he comes off as a libertarian ayn rhand type who believes he is superior and would probably be hunting poor homeless people on horseback or from a helicopter if he could get away with it.

Nice to know that I am living rent free inside of your head. In your zeal to get another zinger in to satisfy your TDS, you have overlooked the fact that homelessness and the poverty that goes along with it is more of a mental health issue than anything else. Besides, if I had a helocopter, I'd be hunting ANTIFA and BLM leaders instead.

Maybe human life  does have no value.  The chinese government sure believes that, so millions of people are basically slave labor in factories from birth to death because their lives are valueless. Dissidents are murdered and their organs sold because the money means more than their lives.

Most people don't want to live in a world where human life has no value. Maybe libertarians with fantasies of being supermen like John Galt want to because they believe they'd be freer in that world, but most people don't want a world like that, so we have laws and religion thru human history. Neither have been perfect solutions but both relfect the desjere of most to have human lives matter. Edit.

This is your TDS talking again. I hate to break it to you, but there are large populous nations which find human life to have no inherent value. The US is an exception, and taken advantage of because of it.

I read a very strange sf novel long ago called 'the godwhale' (it was better than the title)  that featured a society basically ran by a super AI that was under an inviolable, absolutely inviolable, command against killing people for any reason at all. Two people wondered about it and were told if the AI,  which was more intelligent than humans, were allowed to kill even only extreme circumstances, it could use it's greater intelligence  to rationalize and justify killing anyone or everyone. So it was hardwired against killing anyone ever period.

In America we have too much rationalized killing of people as is. Passively or actively America kills people daily for rational reasons. People die of easily treatable medical issues because it's rationalized that healthcare corporate profits are more important than human life. People die from unsafe products because manufacturers rationalize a few lawsuits or bribibg judges is more cost effective than making safer products.

Could you provide some examples of these human killing healthcare corporations in the US? Could you provide examples of people being killed by unsafe products that are still on the market in the US?

I don't want to see killing mentally ill people rationalized. It has to go to bad places.

Is criminal behavior a mental illness?
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DocJones

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2022, 10:05:35 PM »
Could you provide some examples of these human killing healthcare corporations in the US?
Planned Parenthood.

Battlemaster

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Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

Battlemaster

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2022, 11:21:16 PM »
Could you provide some examples of these human killing healthcare corporations in the US?
Planned Parenthood.

Sigh. If only they'd gotten you. But apparently your brain was mostly miscarried.  If it hadn't you might be smart enough not to believe the lies about planned parenthood.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 11:26:38 PM by Battlemaster »
Fuck the fascist right and the fascist left.

oggsmash

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2022, 11:32:33 PM »
  This is a common attempt to conflate every mental issue with people who are in fact murderously dangerous.  You can be one and not the other.  But if you have already killed someone, and it is because your brain is fucked up, I prefer to just send you to your maker.

Hmmmm,  OK, ogg, if you're going to favor harsher penalties for seriously mentally ill people, the legendary 'ax wielding homicidal maniac' say, would you also favor harsher penalties for people who abuse or exploit mentally ill or impaired people?

In reality despite Hollywood's love affair with the insane criminal, people with mental illness are far more likely to be victimjzed by criminals.

So would you favor extra hard treatment of those who victimized the mentally ill?

   If you take advantage of the mentally ill (and things like sexual abuse are extremely common) you should face the same level of punishment as child abusers, and abuses of a sexual nature IMO should be death.  Sex abusers are horrific recidivists, and are one flavor of criminal that is more or less never going to reform.    A person abusing the mentally ill in such a way is the same as a pedo, and should be executed.

David Johansen

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2022, 07:30:13 PM »
The killer's next victim also has a right to live don't they?

There's a lot of mess to consider, including wrongful convictions.  Are the judge, jury, prosecutor, arresting and investigation officers culpable and prosecutable and executable if they are later proven wrong?  I think they should be.  We've had too many bigoted asshats sending innocents to jail and even the chair over the years.  Why should they be immune to the consequences of their actions.

Again, I don't think any government is deserving of the trust it would take to reasonably impose a death sentance.

There is a capital punishment I would like to see for some minor crimes.  The perpetrator shall appear on television and be smacked upside the head and called "dumbass."  I could get behind that.
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jeff37923

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Re: Remember the slenderman stabbing?
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2022, 08:19:27 PM »
Oh wow, in the godwhale (reff to a giant cybernetic whale meant to gather food from the ocean before the gfood chain utterly collapsed. ) the AI running  the city was a minor character really, more background. The really important AIs were the rorqual maru (godwhale) and her companion AI, called iron trilobyte, which has been maintaining the maru for centuries after earths oceans died abd she was abandoned. Finally rorqual tells trilobyte to take most of her remaining power and search earth for anything that might be useful.  Finding nothing in the oceans, it finally does what humans used to do, it prays for aid via it's high power transmitters.

And something responded, asking what was needed.

Months later life began re appearing in earth's sterile oceans. Was it a god or something else?

As for dystopian, oh man you ain't even CLOSE!  ;D Soylent green meets brave new world meets mad max beyond thunderdome meets metropolis meets silent spring .... Get the idea?

Your twisted synopsis doesn't seem to match reality......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godwhale
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