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Author Topic: Reconciliation  (Read 40307 times)

SHARK

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #120 on: November 28, 2022, 03:41:11 PM »
I don’t mind one bit if I’m not a “trustworthy ally” of a political party or movement. That sounds a bit sheepish to me. I don’t think I agree 100% with any single person either.

Yeah, my response to someone telling me I wasn't a "trustworthy ally" in politics would be some slightly less geekish version of "I'm not your torchbearer, sir.".

The problem is, you can either be slavishly loyal to an ideal, or to a political party.

If you're slavishly loyal to a political party, you can't truly hold any ideals. Because sooner or later the party will betray you. In my lifetime I've seen both political parties make massive shifts in their professed opinions.

Look at the Democrat party. They march in lockstep to a greater degree than the republicans. Politically speaking, it's one of their strengths - and I've often lamented it. Democrats don't generally have to worry about what percentage of their members are going to betray them on an upcoming vote. It's a very small number, and the ones that will (like Manchen) are notorious. But the flip side is, how many Democrat politicians are both nominally religious, and yet hold views their church condemns, just as an example? Hell, the catholic diocese have tried to make their displeasure known by denying some of them Communion. You have to betray your personal ideals to function like that.

On the other side of the relationship, these are the mythical ~20% of the voter base that each party has that will, come hell or high water, always vote for one party. Although honestly, I think it's higher than that anymore, but that's still the number everyone uses. These are the useful idiots.

If you're slavishly loyal to an ideal, on the other hand, you just become an angry, insular idealist yelling about how you can't trust anyone to be loyal. Because the vast majority of people are going to disagree with you about some important issues to some extent. Because they have their own ideals. There is a reason that a generation or two ago, it was normal for friends to argue politics. As part of friendly social interaction. And then still be friends the next day.

As an example, despite normalloy tending to hold conservative / right wing ideals, there are certainly some issues I don't on. One of them is the death penalty. I am ardently against it. Not because I don't believe, as a matter of philosophy, that the state doesn't have the right, but rather because as a practical matter, the state screws up. It's basically the ultimate manifestation of Blackstone's ratio, for me. Since it's impossible to guarantee the government never executes an innocent man by mistake, I don't believe they have any business being allowed to execute people. An innocent person who spends time in prison has been wronged, but there may be some attempt to redress that wrong. If they are dead, they are just dead. Given that, I don't see a compelling argument to allow execution, or any benefit it will serve that life in prison will not... save for sating bloodlust. There isn't even an economic argument for it, given how long it takes an the expenses involved. And I've had more than a few "excited" arguments about the subject with friends who believe other wise. Still friends with them.

Of course, a few issues get more complicated. Abortion being the big one. If you absolutely believe that any abortion in any form is murder, and I can't say you're wrong to feel that way if you do, then yeah, it's going to be hard to compromise. The compromise between "murder is okay" and "murder is not okay" isn't so simple as "some murder is okay".

Ah, hell, I'm rambling at this point. The older I get, the more I watch the world grow more partisan, the more friendships and familial relationships I see strained or torn apart over the subject in the last few years, the more I'm coming to agree with the people who dismiss it all with a cry of "politics suck!". And in my younger days, I was intensely political. I couldn't get enough of it. Listened to it all the time, read books on it, had my own political blog, tried to help with local elections... That's a lot of my life I probably could have spent more wisely.

Greetings!

Well said, Bruwulf! I sympathize entirely. ;D

I suppose the issue of "Politics" is paradoxical. On one hand, it can all seem like a fool's errand, and is ultimately pointless, usually accomplishing little. On the other hand, so much of politics is acutely relevant with all kinds of significant ramifications and consequences. even today, for myself, it generates a compelling attention and interest.

When I was younger, I was also avidly into politics. My Minor in college was, *laughing*--Political Science, International Relations, as a specialty. I used to read the newspaper daily, the WSJ, listen to political talk shows on the radio, and engage in political debates and discussions at school on virtually a daily basis. I also bought many political books!

*Laughing* Nowadays, I'm not sure most of all that is really worth all the time, effort, money, and energy.

Nowadays, I tend to take politics in *limited doses*.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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3catcircus

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #121 on: November 28, 2022, 07:12:16 PM »
The problem with the conservative approach to moderates is that they still need to sway undecided voters to win elections.  All the bluster and indignity in the world will only drive them the other way.  Unless you're willing to dispense with democracy at which point you're not anything I'd support.

Y'all just need to install me as your global benevolent dictator.

David Johansen

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #122 on: November 29, 2022, 12:14:41 AM »
So, I was talking to a teacher at my child's school this one time and I said, "if I was dictator I'd do things differently."  And she said, "but you'd be a benevolant dictator, right?"  And I said, "no, they'd have to kill me, I'd be a horrible tyrant.  There are no benevolant dictators."

True story, I'm a really pompus ass.
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Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #123 on: November 29, 2022, 01:55:45 PM »
So, I was talking to a teacher at my child's school this one time and I said, "if I was dictator I'd do things differently."  And she said, "but you'd be a benevolant dictator, right?"  And I said, "no, they'd have to kill me, I'd be a horrible tyrant.  There are no benevolant dictators."

What about Cincinnatus?
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

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Zelen

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #124 on: November 29, 2022, 05:11:07 PM »
A malevolent dictator who you can hold accountable is superior to a faceless bureaucratic organization which pretends to be democratic and won't ever take responsibility for its own actions.

3catcircus

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #125 on: November 29, 2022, 06:05:31 PM »
So, I was talking to a teacher at my child's school this one time and I said, "if I was dictator I'd do things differently."  And she said, "but you'd be a benevolant dictator, right?"  And I said, "no, they'd have to kill me, I'd be a horrible tyrant.  There are no benevolant dictators."

True story, I'm a really pompus ass.

Horrible to whom?  I'm sure to the radical leftists and the globalists, I'd be horrible because I wouldn't tolerate their bullshit.  Antifa would be lying dead in the streets en masse. Borders would be secured. The Fed would be dissolved and we'd be back on a gold standard. No money laundering via foreign aide would occur. Elected officials would be forcibly retired after 2 terms. Criminals, with clear and undisputable evidence of wrongdoing, would be made an example of. The intelligence community would be destroyed and rebuilt under Congressional and Court checks and balances with *all* of the secrets that are secret only to avoid embarrassment to politicians or CEOs being exposed for everyone to see - including all of the names in Gislaine Maxwell's little black book. Lobbyists would be publicly crucified. Pedophiles would be thrown in wood chippers. We would have a strong military focused on defense and freedom of navigation rather than meddling regime change. Greta Thunberg would undergo deprogramming. The Southern Law Poverty Center would live up to it's name by having all of its funding confiscated. Universities would no longer receive public funding - tuition would be free but come from their endowments.

Did I miss anything in this list?

Brad

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2022, 08:18:38 PM »
I used to think I was a libertarian, then a staunch conservative, but now I realize I’m actually an anarchist who absolutely is tired of being told what to do by dumbasses who can’t decide their pronouns on a given day. The only solution in the US involves woodchippers, ropes, free helicopter rides, and lots of AR-15s. Politicians are a monolith who pretend to be on a “side”, when really they’re only interested in lining their own pockets. DC can get nuked into glass and that would do wonders for fixing a lot of the problems.

Thankfully, all this COVID bullshit revealed who is actually an enemy combatant, and I’m honestly surprised who some of those people are. I, for one, welcome our inevitable Balkanization.
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David Johansen

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2022, 09:09:30 PM »
What about Cincinnatus?

The position of "Dictator" in ancient Rome was different than the present usage.  I suppose I should have said "autocrat.'

Still, I think the greatest threat to modern society is the growing disillusionment with democracy and the growing anger on both sides.  As far as I'm concerned, anarchy is only a prelude to autocracy and communism has been tried many times and failed shortly thereafter each time.  Socialism seems to work okay in a thriving economy but cannot survive ill fortune without constant bailouts from Germany and the UK.
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3catcircus

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2022, 10:16:02 PM »
What about Cincinnatus?

The position of "Dictator" in ancient Rome was different than the present usage.  I suppose I should have said "autocrat.'

Still, I think the greatest threat to modern society is the growing disillusionment with democracy and the growing anger on both sides.  As far as I'm concerned, anarchy is only a prelude to autocracy and communism has been tried many times and failed shortly thereafter each time.  Socialism seems to work okay in a thriving economy but cannot survive ill fortune without constant bailouts from Germany and the UK.

It isn't disillusionment with democracy that I have - it's enragement that the collective "we" have allowed it to be hijacked by a bunch of corrupt motherfuckers who all deserve to be killed if they're unwilling or unable to act morally and ethically.

There are no "democrats" or "republicans." No "liberals" or "conservatives.". There are only the just and moral surrounded on all sides by the immoral and unethical.

When you have people performing mental gymnastics to try and claim that the act of physically removing a fetus that is formed enough that the end result is a pile of tiny pieces fully recognizeable as dismembered body parts is somehow *not* murder.

When you have people claiming that an enshrined right to be armed (the words "shall not be infringed" need no explanation) should be restricted.

When you have people you've elected to represent your wishes do the exact opposite.

When you have people in positions of moral authority engaging in the very practices in private that they condemn in public.

When you have people put in positions to administer the law equally do otherwise.

When you have officials whose loyalty can be bought.

When you have people actually arguing that a group of violent rioters have more of a right to be in a public place while armed than the person they tried to murder.

When you have people who have a complete lack of awareness of how society and government are *supposed* to be operating

We need a "great reset" - but not of the kind espoused by globalists.  We need to reset government to its original size, scope, and limits of functionality. We need a reset of who does and doesn't deserve the rights of citizenship by birth. We need a reset of what is taught in school and what constitutes proficiency in that body of knowledge.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2022, 10:32:32 PM by 3catcircus »

David Johansen

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #129 on: November 30, 2022, 01:50:07 AM »
I'm afraid you'll have to accept a very high body count to achieve that.

Unfortunately, people don't really start to question or rise up until they are hungry and it is too late.  Still, radical conservatives alienating undecided voters is why we keep losing these battles.  Scary people scare people for some reason.  I'm sick of losing because conservatism is so full of reactionary loudmouths that virtually hand the election to the liberals.

Yes libralism has its scary reactionaries but the liberal media tends to minimize that for some reason or another.
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Kiero

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #130 on: November 30, 2022, 06:55:51 AM »
I'm afraid you'll have to accept a very high body count to achieve that.

Unfortunately, people don't really start to question or rise up until they are hungry and it is too late.  Still, radical conservatives alienating undecided voters is why we keep losing these battles.  Scary people scare people for some reason.  I'm sick of losing because conservatism is so full of reactionary loudmouths that virtually hand the election to the liberals.

Yes libralism has its scary reactionaries but the liberal media tends to minimize that for some reason or another.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that your "Democrats" win elections because they cheat massively.
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Brad

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #131 on: November 30, 2022, 07:36:54 AM »
I'm afraid you'll have to accept a very high body count to achieve that.

Your terms are acceptable.

But seriously, I think you vastly overestimate the resolve most of these leftists actually have. Since they stand for nothing, they typically capitulate almost instantly to any sort of legitimate threat. That CHAZ nonsense where the rapper took over in less than a day with a single rifle is a good example. Also I don't think they realize the people they want to fuck with have restrained themselves for a long time now, and when the breaking point is reached it'll be hell on earth.
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SHARK

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #132 on: November 30, 2022, 08:34:27 AM »
I'm afraid you'll have to accept a very high body count to achieve that.

Your terms are acceptable.

But seriously, I think you vastly overestimate the resolve most of these leftists actually have. Since they stand for nothing, they typically capitulate almost instantly to any sort of legitimate threat. That CHAZ nonsense where the rapper took over in less than a day with a single rifle is a good example. Also I don't think they realize the people they want to fuck with have restrained themselves for a long time now, and when the breaking point is reached it'll be hell on earth.

Greetings!

BRAD!!!! Wecome back, my friend! It is very good to see you again! More than a few members here have missed you!

I hope you and your family are good, and that you enjoyed Thanksgiving!

As for your commentary, yes, I agree. Those terms are acceptable. Increasingly, the country needs to be cleansed if the Republic is to even have a chance at survival and potential recovery. Our unique American civilization itself is threatened by these degenerates.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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SHARK

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #133 on: November 30, 2022, 08:45:04 AM »
Greetings!

If Conservatives don't wake the fuck up and get hard-core radical, then they deserve to choke on shit. The country is in peril from the fucking degenerate Libtard Commies precisely because we have had far too many years where the nice, polite, William F. Buckley type Conservatives have been in charge. Far too many of those people drank the fucking Kool-aid and became RINOS. Far too many of them are entirely too willing to compromise with the Communists and bend over to get fucked in the ass as long as they are allowed to keep their "Civil and Polite" reputation.

The Libtards *want* you to keep being nice, and civil, and polite, and so *reasonable*. That's a large part of how the fucking Communists have been able to gain victory after victory in this country. Too many conservatives being more committed to "compromise" and being nice and reasonable--instead of crushing the goddamn Communists and the hordes of degenerates.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security b

David Johansen

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #134 on: November 30, 2022, 09:44:35 AM »
So what you're saying is that we've lost and will continue to lose because you've given up?  Because you don't have the stones to keep fighting and now insist on resorting to violence?  What are you two?  If you think the left isn't capable of producing suicidal radicals you didn't follow the rise of communism in the twentieth century very closely.  If the right wants to win we need to clean up our act and be the moral paragons we tell ourselves we are when we're posing in front of the bathroom mirror.
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