This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The RPGPundit's Own Forum Rules
This part of the site is controlled by the RPGPundit. This is where he discusses topics that he finds interesting. You may post here, but understand that there are limits. The RPGPundit can shut down any thread, topic of discussion, or user in a thread at his pleasure. This part of the site is essentially his house, so keep that in mind. Note that this is the only part of the site where political discussion is permitted, but is regulated by the RPGPundit.

Author Topic: Reconciliation  (Read 40338 times)

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2022, 05:28:56 PM »
I love that in a thread named reconciliation the majority of the forumites here came out to the conclusion that to accomplish everyone to the left of GWBush needs to be put against the wall and shot.

Yep, totally sane and well-adjusted adults here, that's for sure.

  Buddy, when you are telling me my daughter has to go into the locker room with dudes and you are for mutilating kids' genitals.....I wont say to shoot you, but I sure as hell do not think you and I are going to have enough common ground to be in the same nation.  The conclusion is not to shoot anyone, but it is to say there are issues so dividing there is going to be no middle ground or healing.  Amicable divorce is the best long term solution.

Amicable divorce would be fine, if leftists were reasonable. They have proven time and again that any inch you give them turns into a million miles of them taking and not being satisfied. They don't want live and let live. They want their way or cancellation.  I'm just not naive enough to think that politeness and reasonableness in the face of leftists would ever result in anything other than the complete destruction of traditional American society if they were to achieve what they claim to want - sex with children and animals, inundation of the country with illegal immigrants (and taxes paying for them to live free here while sending money back to their actual homes), massive censorship of anything other than Marxist beliefs, etc.  Leftists are even at the point of attacking each other and those that they claim to represent (such as attacking gay people who speak out against normalizing pedos, stifling people who were confused teens that had activists pressure them into having their sexual organs mutilated and now regret doing so, or cancelling black and brown people for daring to not be victims needing leftists to speak for them).

I stand by my earlier statements. If fucking communist leftists want to reconcile, then they can be the first to make the effort by ending attempts to normalize pedophilia, bestiality, and child transgenderism; by stopping efforts to provide legal aid to illegal immigrants and antifa terrorists; ceasing to leftsplain for the "poor stupid brown and black people who can't fend for themselves", stopping their justification of gun violence in inner cities while simultaneously trying to take away 2A rights from legal gun owners, or by ceasing any and all activism whatsoever.  Otherwise, fuck 'em.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5289
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2022, 06:54:25 PM »
by stopping efforts to provide legal aid to illegal immigrants

Hey buddy, you're in the vast minority on that topic. You do, in fact, need to compromise on legal aid to illegal immigrants. 86% of likely voters in the United States support the government providing an attorney for illegal immigrants who cannot afford one. That's not them having a problem it's you. You live in a nation where people think those trying to emigrate to the U.S., even illegally, should have legal council if they cannot afford legal council to try and prove they're not here illegally or that deportation would be illegal.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2022, 07:22:06 PM »
by stopping efforts to provide legal aid to illegal immigrants

Hey buddy, you're in the vast minority on that topic. You do, in fact, need to compromise on legal aid to illegal immigrants. 86% of likely voters in the United States support the government providing an attorney for illegal immigrants who cannot afford one. That's not them having a problem it's you. You live in a nation where people think those trying to emigrate to the U.S., even illegally, should have legal council if they cannot afford legal council to try and prove they're not here illegally or that deportation would be illegal.

Absolutely not. 99% of them are here for economic reasons (or sneaking across for terrorism or crime purposes) rather than persecution. Those who come here *legally* (like my brother's and sister's in-laws from Cuba and Colombia) are essentially being told that they're a bunch of fools for following the law, applying for visas, waiting in line, learning English, applying for legal residency, and ultimately studying for and achieving citizenship. 

I don't care that it's not nice to not allow illegals to enter (and not pursue them when they are found here). No other nation anywhere in the world tolerates this the way the US does. None of them. And that's the right of *every* sovereign nation to secure their borders. Period.

It's a *business* to smuggle illegals into the US. Overwhelmingly of people coming from central American countries who get robbed, raped, and beaten by Mexican border forces when they hit the southern/eastern border of Mexico.  How cruel are you that you want that to continue.

A tourist who knowingly overstayed your visa? Too fucking bad - hit the bricks.

Fleeing religious or political persecution? Apply at the embassy in your home country or go to a refugee camp to start with.

I travel *a lot* (and it's picked back up post plandemic). I see plenty of people trying to illegally enter other countries and they don't put up with it. Neither should we.

Bruwulf

  • Dwarf Fanboy
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #78 on: November 23, 2022, 08:37:33 PM »
Hey buddy, you're in the vast minority on that topic. You do, in fact, need to compromise on legal aid to illegal immigrants. 86% of likely voters in the United States support the government providing an attorney for illegal immigrants who cannot afford one. That's not them having a problem it's you. You live in a nation where people think those trying to emigrate to the U.S., even illegally, should have legal council if they cannot afford legal council to try and prove they're not here illegally or that deportation would be illegal.

Disingenuous nonsense. There isn't any question that they are here illegally. We're not talking some racist ICE agents going into the racial enclaves of LA and rounding up legitimate immigrants and shipping them to Mexico, like the folks over a TBP imagine goes on every day. We by and large leave the illegal immigrants who manage to reach those and more or less integrate into society alone, as long as they keep their heads down and avoid getting into the legal system by committing crimes. We're talking people caught trying to cross the border illegally.

This is me having to prove you don't live in my house to be able to kick you out of my house when you broke in at night while I was sleeping... At my expense. While I give you room and board in the meantime.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2022, 08:41:29 PM by Bruwulf »

DocJones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1082
  • theofascist
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #79 on: November 23, 2022, 09:41:09 PM »
You sort of ignore the political violence of 2020 riots which saw 25 people killed, thousands injured and billions of dollars in damages
while the worst violence of the 1968 riots which saw 39 people killed, thousands injured, and less damage.
They are quite comparable.

The 1968 riots after MLK's assassination was just one piece of violence of the 1960s, though. The summer 1967 race riots killed at least 85 people across dozens of cities. There were the 1964 Watts riots that had 34 deaths. There were dozens of other major riot incidents throughout the 1960s.

There were also a string of assassinations including JFK, MLK, and other notable figures. There was the Kent State shooting (technically in 1970 but clearly part of the period). Domestic terrorist groups including the KKK and others were highly active.
I was comparing the worst year of the 60's to the worst of the 20's.  And we've got 7 years to make the rest of the 60's look like child's play.

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5289
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #80 on: November 23, 2022, 11:08:14 PM »
by stopping efforts to provide legal aid to illegal immigrants

Hey buddy, you're in the vast minority on that topic. You do, in fact, need to compromise on legal aid to illegal immigrants. 86% of likely voters in the United States support the government providing an attorney for illegal immigrants who cannot afford one. That's not them having a problem it's you. You live in a nation where people think those trying to emigrate to the U.S., even illegally, should have legal council if they cannot afford legal council to try and prove they're not here illegally or that deportation would be illegal.

Absolutely not. 99% of them are here for economic reasons (or sneaking across for terrorism or crime purposes) rather than persecution. Those who come here *legally* (like my brother's and sister's in-laws from Cuba and Colombia) are essentially being told that they're a bunch of fools for following the law, applying for visas, waiting in line, learning English, applying for legal residency, and ultimately studying for and achieving citizenship. 

I don't care that it's not nice to not allow illegals to enter (and not pursue them when they are found here). No other nation anywhere in the world tolerates this the way the US does. None of them. And that's the right of *every* sovereign nation to secure their borders. Period.

It's a *business* to smuggle illegals into the US. Overwhelmingly of people coming from central American countries who get robbed, raped, and beaten by Mexican border forces when they hit the southern/eastern border of Mexico.  How cruel are you that you want that to continue.

A tourist who knowingly overstayed your visa? Too fucking bad - hit the bricks.

Fleeing religious or political persecution? Apply at the embassy in your home country or go to a refugee camp to start with.

I travel *a lot* (and it's picked back up post plandemic). I see plenty of people trying to illegally enter other countries and they don't put up with it. Neither should we.

Nothing you said is a response to having access to an attorney

Mistwell

  • Smarter than Arduin
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5289
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #81 on: November 23, 2022, 11:09:56 PM »
Hey buddy, you're in the vast minority on that topic. You do, in fact, need to compromise on legal aid to illegal immigrants. 86% of likely voters in the United States support the government providing an attorney for illegal immigrants who cannot afford one. That's not them having a problem it's you. You live in a nation where people think those trying to emigrate to the U.S., even illegally, should have legal council if they cannot afford legal council to try and prove they're not here illegally or that deportation would be illegal.

Disingenuous nonsense. There isn't any question that they are here illegally.

Except sometimes there is.

Quote
We're not talking some racist ICE agents going into the racial enclaves of LA and rounding up legitimate immigrants and shipping them to Mexico, like the folks over a TBP imagine goes on every day. We by and large leave the illegal immigrants who manage to reach those and more or less integrate into society alone, as long as they keep their heads down and avoid getting into the legal system by committing crimes. We're talking people caught trying to cross the border illegally.

This is me having to prove you don't live in my house to be able to kick you out of my house when you broke in at night while I was sleeping... At my expense. While I give you room and board in the meantime.

86% of likely voters disagree with your view on this. So tough shit. It's just an attorney. You can live it them getting access to an attorney.

Kiero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 2989
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2022, 04:18:39 AM »
I don't care that it's not nice to not allow illegals to enter (and not pursue them when they are found here). No other nation anywhere in the world tolerates this the way the US does. None of them. And that's the right of *every* sovereign nation to secure their borders. Period.

Actually, you're wrong on this, one nation is an even softer touch than the US: the UK. We have a natural boundary, the sea, which should prevent people simply rolling over the border at will. There's 30 miles of sea to cross from the European mainland even at the closest point.

We've had tens of thousands of illegal migrants (overwhelmingly young men of fighting age, most recenty the majority are from Albania) turning up every year. They get on little boats in French coastal towns, the French navy escorts them into our waters where the Royal Navy, Border Force or RNLI escorts them here. When they arrive they're put up in 4-star hotels (now some 5-star hotels), given free phones, 3 meals a day and cash.

Unsurprisingly, the places hosting all these groups of men are having many problems with them, which the authorities do their best to cover up.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

Bruwulf

  • Dwarf Fanboy
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2022, 07:21:08 AM »
Except sometimes there is.

Again, disingenuous nonsense.

Let us be clear: When people talk about "the border crisis" and "illegal immigration" as political topics, you and I both know nobody is taking about edge cases like people fleeing religious persecution. Americans, even conservatives, have historically been receptive to that sort of immigration. Hell, Cuban refuges have been embraced better than most others because they are more clearly refugees fleeing oppression.

That is neither the sort of immigration people are talking about as apolitical issue, nor more than than a tiny fraction of it.

86% of likely voters disagree with your view on this. So tough shit. It's just an attorney. You can live it them getting access to an attorney.

We don't govern by polling.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2022, 10:38:58 AM »
by stopping efforts to provide legal aid to illegal immigrants

Hey buddy, you're in the vast minority on that topic. You do, in fact, need to compromise on legal aid to illegal immigrants. 86% of likely voters in the United States support the government providing an attorney for illegal immigrants who cannot afford one. That's not them having a problem it's you. You live in a nation where people think those trying to emigrate to the U.S., even illegally, should have legal council if they cannot afford legal council to try and prove they're not here illegally or that deportation would be illegal.

Absolutely not. 99% of them are here for economic reasons (or sneaking across for terrorism or crime purposes) rather than persecution. Those who come here *legally* (like my brother's and sister's in-laws from Cuba and Colombia) are essentially being told that they're a bunch of fools for following the law, applying for visas, waiting in line, learning English, applying for legal residency, and ultimately studying for and achieving citizenship. 

I don't care that it's not nice to not allow illegals to enter (and not pursue them when they are found here). No other nation anywhere in the world tolerates this the way the US does. None of them. And that's the right of *every* sovereign nation to secure their borders. Period.

It's a *business* to smuggle illegals into the US. Overwhelmingly of people coming from central American countries who get robbed, raped, and beaten by Mexican border forces when they hit the southern/eastern border of Mexico.  How cruel are you that you want that to continue.

A tourist who knowingly overstayed your visa? Too fucking bad - hit the bricks.

Fleeing religious or political persecution? Apply at the embassy in your home country or go to a refugee camp to start with.

I travel *a lot* (and it's picked back up post plandemic). I see plenty of people trying to illegally enter other countries and they don't put up with it. Neither should we.

Nothing you said is a response to having access to an attorney

It most certainly is. When you don't allow illegals to enter to begin with, they won't need access to an attorney. When you see them illegally enter and capture them, they're caught red-handed and should be immediately deported - there is no need for an attorney until they get kicked out, when they can hire one at their own expense in their own countries. When you're here illegally beyond your visa, it's cut and dried. Your visa said x months, you stayed x+ months, no need for an attorney to try and argue that you should stay because you can't count the days.

You completely don't get that CBP has authority up to 50 (I think it is 50) miles inland from point of entry to come grab your ass without any recourse, do you? Why should a US citizen be subject to this without being allowed to demand an attorney but illegals should just be allowed to wander about?

What's right is right. Illegals entering the US (or any country) is not right.  Shipping illegals to Martha's Vineyard perfectly proved what a bunch of hypocrites wealthy leftist cunts are when they called the national guard to lock them up at a military base when they all have huge homes (in some cases, multiple rental properties) that they could let them stay in. Just admit that leftists love to virtue signal about caring about the less fortunate without actually doing anything to help the less fortunate - and when they experienced what people in Arizona, Texas, etc. experience on a daily basis, they fucking panicked
« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 10:45:51 AM by 3catcircus »

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2022, 10:39:44 AM »
I don't care that it's not nice to not allow illegals to enter (and not pursue them when they are found here). No other nation anywhere in the world tolerates this the way the US does. None of them. And that's the right of *every* sovereign nation to secure their borders. Period.

Actually, you're wrong on this, one nation is an even softer touch than the US: the UK. We have a natural boundary, the sea, which should prevent people simply rolling over the border at will. There's 30 miles of sea to cross from the European mainland even at the closest point.

We've had tens of thousands of illegal migrants (overwhelmingly young men of fighting age, most recenty the majority are from Albania) turning up every year. They get on little boats in French coastal towns, the French navy escorts them into our waters where the Royal Navy, Border Force or RNLI escorts them here. When they arrive they're put up in 4-star hotels (now some 5-star hotels), given free phones, 3 meals a day and cash.

Unsurprisingly, the places hosting all these groups of men are having many problems with them, which the authorities do their best to cover up.

I stand corrected. I forgot about the Muzzie grooming gangs in the UK...

rpgSeeker

  • Newbie
  • *
  • r
  • Posts: 12
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2022, 01:08:43 PM »
I don't think reconciliation is possible no.

Where would the left even start?

Would they apologize for the 2020 riots? The people they murdered?
Would they admit to spending the entirety of Donald Trump's presidency lying about him? What would they do to atone for the propaganda and fear mongering?
Are the voter base going to stop voting for the Democratic politicians that has become nothing but woke progressive liars?
Are those politicians going to resign?
Are they going to dismantle their own propaganda machine? Will they rise up against deplatforming and suppression?
Will they actually start caring about left wing issues again as something more than just a pretense?

Obviously not. I think if there is one thing the left actually wants it is to retain things as they are. They're not going to wake up, go 'oh gods what have we become' and try to atone. Those who do will do like Tulsi and leave. Any hope of reconciliation requires reforming the modern left into something that isn't just a lie, and any hope of that died in 2020.

Kiero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 2989
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2022, 01:37:05 PM »
I stand corrected. I forgot about the Muzzie grooming gangs in the UK...

Not quite. Whilst there's little doubt these newest arrivals engage in the same activities, grooming gangs have been going since the 1970s, in every single town and city with a sizeable Muslim population.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.

3catcircus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • ?
  • Posts: 721
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2022, 01:46:00 PM »
I don't think reconciliation is possible no.

Where would the left even start?

Would they apologize for the 2020 riots? The people they murdered?
Would they admit to spending the entirety of Donald Trump's presidency lying about him? What would they do to atone for the propaganda and fear mongering?
Are the voter base going to stop voting for the Democratic politicians that has become nothing but woke progressive liars?
Are those politicians going to resign?
Are they going to dismantle their own propaganda machine? Will they rise up against deplatforming and suppression?
Will they actually start caring about left wing issues again as something more than just a pretense?

Obviously not. I think if there is one thing the left actually wants it is to retain things as they are. They're not going to wake up, go 'oh gods what have we become' and try to atone. Those who do will do like Tulsi and leave. Any hope of reconciliation requires reforming the modern left into something that isn't just a lie, and any hope of that died in 2020.

But you just hit the nail on the head.  Tulsi Gabbard is, to the left, worse than a traitor, because she can clearly articulate to the public just exactly how fucked up their agenda is.

But let's be clear.  It isn't that there are all these leftists who organically just want to be activists for bledding-heart causes. They are useful idiots for a ChiCom (primarily) communist agenda.  The CCP owns many US politicians and business leaders - across the political spectrum.  Ask yourself who benefits from an agenda that proposes that sexually confused teens take hormone blockers and chop off body parts and don't engage in traditional gender roles. Ask yourself who benefits from having a citizenry divided amongst itself. Or that allows an unchecked horde of non-loyal immigrants. Or that allows foreign holding companies to buy real estate and businesses, including farmland and facilities in the food and energy sectors? How many other "10% to the big guy" criminal activities are going on that haven't come to light?  Why did a group of both Dem and Rep senators try to stifle the SEC investigation of FTX?  How many pols of both parties continue to miraculous beat the S&P 500? Follow the money.

How many other countries tolerate any of this?  Go ahead and try dissenting in China and see how quickly you end up in a reeducation prison.

We are a nation divided, led by an administrative state that is not loyal to the principles the country was founded on, and society is in moral decay.  The US *is* the Roman Empire under Caligula and Nero.

Kiero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • K
  • Posts: 2989
Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2022, 01:48:41 PM »
The CCP also benefits from the mRNA jabs ruining the health of your service personnel.
Currently running: Tyche's Favourites, a historical ACKS campaign set around Massalia in 300BC.

Our podcast site, In Sanity We Trust Productions.