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Author Topic: Reconciliation  (Read 40313 times)

Mistwell

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #465 on: December 31, 2022, 08:51:38 PM »
I am not arguing for a NHS or full-blown socialized medicine. Not even a Canadian system, but rather something that looks like the German hybrid healthcare system.

I am curious. What does the German hybrid system look like? I know nothing about it and had not heard that brought up before. I'm cool just Googling in but if you know something about it I'd be happy to hear a summary.

I think our healthcare system is a mess, and was made worse by Obamacare (though it was never good). The whole "you can keep your health insurance" was a lie - I could not. I was told I had to buy new health insurance, which covered less and cost more. And I was pissed about it. And my left-wing friends had no sympathy, and just kept repeating that more people had health insurance now and that was a small price to pay. As all of them enjoyed health insurance paid for by their employer (sometimes the Government or a University) and they paid no price

Ratman_tf

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #466 on: December 31, 2022, 11:50:00 PM »
I have never been dogmatic with my politics, and tend to be eclectic and a bit technocratic. This has made me enemies on both sides of the spectrum

Here is one angle I take when trying to reach an agreement or consensus among people of different political and ideological persuasions:

1. Can we agree that there are things we could call "public good" --those things that are necessary for the functioning of society, and which cannot be provided by the private sector alone. Those things that must be supported by the public (aka taxes, etc.)? National defense is a good example.

I mildly agree. I don't agree that they must be provided by the state, but they can be. And the state may be the best way to accomplish this, but it's picking amongst options that all have their drawbacks.

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But I would also put healthcare into this category. Why?

a) The private sector has failed for decades to provide effective healthcare at a reasonable cost. There are many reasons for this, but there is the profit motive, lack of pricing transparency, high malpractice insurance costs, regulation, etc. We can talk all day about why the system is broken, but all the math leads to the same solution--it is hopelessly dysfunctional and cannot be fixed without a total overhaul.

All issues that exist with a public system. America's hybrid system is a good example of that.

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b) A healthy population with access to healthcare is a public good. Many years ago, a dude with TB got into a train I was on and proceeded to infect me and several others with the disease. I spent 9 months on antibiotics and physical therapy. That guy had no health insurance and minimal access to care--and his problem became everyone's problem.

A state run health system would not have mitigated this without other issues, like China's response to Covid, turning public health issues into an authoritarian nightmare of people welded into boxes and locked into apartments for the "greater good".

Covid is a glaring and relevant example of how the state killed people and illustrated that "the experts" are all idiots who will lie rather than actually help people.

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c) We can have a national health insurance that covers everyone, but everyone has to pay into it. A VAT or national sales tax, and some increases in income taxes will be required. I am happy to pay it. The idea that taxing the 1% is going to give everyone healthcare is nonsense. It is hugely expensive.

Not even in theory. Even touted european public health care systems have their issues, loopholes, and people falling through the cracks. Corruption and abuse. Officials cooking the books to cover their asses. You'll be trading one set of issues for another, and very likely just pulling even in net good.

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Story comes out a couple days ago that the US will start demanding COVID tests for people coming here from China, and quarantining those who fail.

But the virus has been here for 3 years and like 95% of our population has been infected. How does this make any sense at all? When we have this level of stupid in our government, we have really big problems. Or claims that spending additional trillions of dollars will *lower* inflation (total nonsense), or that eliminating cash bail will *lower* crime (totally illogical) --I could go on and on.

These are the assholes who would be in charge of an expanded public health care system.

Personally, I think we should have a public option for those who cannot afford private health care, but be aware that there are perverse incentives and people who will try to expand that public option to try and crush private health care and create a government monopoly on health care. One that they control and profit from, instead of those "filthy capitalists".

I am not arguing for a NHS or full-blown socialized medicine. Not even a Canadian system, but rather something that looks like the German hybrid healthcare system.

Dude: I have heard all the arguments you have put forward before, and they amount to saying everything is fine with the house, except for the fact the entire thing is on fire and about to collapse. Our healthcare system is absolute trash, and no, it isn't all because of the private sector, it is also because of issues within the public.

Even with our mostly private system, the government still locked people down during COVID, assumed emergency powers (the governor of Illinois still has them), issued vaccine passports in places like New York, while big pharma worked with government officials and the media to push false narratives. It was the worst of both worlds.

A national health insurance should be available to anyone who needs it, but private policies can also be purchased (like in Germany). There will be a cost for the public option, but it won't be outrageous. I pay $2100 a month for my health plan with $30,000 in annual deductibles (family of 4) --that is fuc*ing immoral. A system like this cannot survive.

there are always going to be trade-offs and sacrifices, but we have to get away from this dogmatic thinking that the government shouldn't be involved with anything --the private health insurance companies have raped the public for decades. This needs to be fixed

Well, I'm glad that's what I explicitly mentioned as not saying in the first sentence of my reply to you then.  ;)

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Trond

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #467 on: January 01, 2023, 03:29:50 AM »
For those who think we’re talking about entirely different cultures; I have noticed that in America, there’s a strong tendency for hyper-conservative families to breed rebellious leftist kids. There’s a bit of the opposite too, but I have seen somewhat less of it.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 03:32:16 AM by Trond »

Mistwell

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #468 on: January 01, 2023, 03:33:05 AM »
For those who think we’re talking about entirely different cultures; I have noticed that in America, there’s a strong tendency for hyper-conservative families to breed rebellious leftists. There’s a bit of the opposite too, but I have seen somewhat less of it.

Alex P Keaton effect.

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Ratman_tf

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #469 on: January 01, 2023, 03:49:21 AM »
For those who think we’re talking about entirely different cultures; I have noticed that in America, there’s a strong tendency for hyper-conservative families to breed rebellious leftist kids. There’s a bit of the opposite too, but I have seen somewhat less of it.

And I've noticed a lot of pushback from young people over the past few years against the insanity of the left. I suppose how much depends on your perspective.
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Trond

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #470 on: January 01, 2023, 03:57:19 AM »
For those who think we’re talking about entirely different cultures; I have noticed that in America, there’s a strong tendency for hyper-conservative families to breed rebellious leftist kids. There’s a bit of the opposite too, but I have seen somewhat less of it.

And I've noticed a lot of pushback from young people over the past few years against the insanity of the left. I suppose how much depends on your perspective.
Very possible. That wasn’t the main point though. The point is, I don’t think you can subdivide the country that easily.

jeff37923

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #471 on: January 01, 2023, 06:07:06 AM »
And I got to ask, why is this about my personal business, when we were talking about reconciliation? I certainly never raised it, and even the side comment in parathesis about globalism doesn't warrant an examination of my private business.

Wow, that sweatshop comment really struck a nerve with you!
Methinks thou dost protest too much!

So, how many temp workers do you hire when cap and gown season for graduates rolls around? Or do you just ship the work south of the border because the labor is cheaper?
"Meh."

Mistwell

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #472 on: January 01, 2023, 12:09:20 PM »
And I got to ask, why is this about my personal business, when we were talking about reconciliation? I certainly never raised it, and even the side comment in parathesis about globalism doesn't warrant an examination of my private business.

Wow, that sweatshop comment really struck a nerve with you!
Methinks thou dost protest too much!

So, how many temp workers do you hire when cap and gown season for graduates rolls around? Or do you just ship the work south of the border because the labor is cheaper?

Naw the sweatshop comment wasn't that big a deal. It was the slave labor comment that bugged me.

Not sure what you're getting at with these questions? We hire one office worker that is temp during the cap and gown season to help enter orders. Usually the daughter of another office worker, or someone else related to someone else we know. Usually they're a college student. We don't manufacture ordinary caps and gowns. We're just delivering them during the season, often by hiring a delivery company.

There isn't some big temp worker hiring that happens during that season. And that wouldn't make sense in our business. The stuff we do is too complicated to train someone on how to do it and then let them go months later. That would be a losing proposition. We'd invest more in the training than we'd get in production. Most of our employees have been there for many years. Some over 20 years.

No we don't have any vendors in Mexico. I looked into it years ago but a small business group I belonged to had a guy who convinced me it was a horrible idea. He had a factory there for a time, and his trucks would literally get hijacked.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 12:18:25 PM by Mistwell »

Zelen

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #473 on: January 01, 2023, 02:02:32 PM »
For those who think we’re talking about entirely different cultures; I have noticed that in America, there’s a strong tendency for hyper-conservative families to breed rebellious leftist kids. There’s a bit of the opposite too, but I have seen somewhat less of it.

This is a Hollywood trope but the statistical evidence (insofar as you should trust anything that comes out of social science) does not align with this outcome.

Conservative parents raising kids in conservative ways generally tend to raise conservative children. The outside influence of (peer group / media environment) can lead children to be rebellious but the effect is reduced the more conservative/religious the parents. For example, among the Amish, fewer young adults who are going on Rumspringa are choosing to abandon their faith & lifestyle than in the past. It's the children of Lefty/Liberal parents who are more prone to radicalism.

Kiero

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #474 on: January 01, 2023, 03:06:07 PM »
I've said that many time here before. That you missed it is funny.

I've never seen it, but now I know.

Contrary to those who wish to banish you to the Big Purple Arsehole, I want you to stay. You serve a valuable function, telling us what the Establishment swamp thinks.
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jeff37923

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #475 on: January 01, 2023, 03:45:31 PM »
And I got to ask, why is this about my personal business, when we were talking about reconciliation? I certainly never raised it, and even the side comment in parathesis about globalism doesn't warrant an examination of my private business.

Wow, that sweatshop comment really struck a nerve with you!
Methinks thou dost protest too much!

So, how many temp workers do you hire when cap and gown season for graduates rolls around? Or do you just ship the work south of the border because the labor is cheaper?

Naw the sweatshop comment wasn't that big a deal. It was the slave labor comment that bugged me.

Not sure what you're getting at with these questions? We hire one office worker that is temp during the cap and gown season to help enter orders. Usually the daughter of another office worker, or someone else related to someone else we know. Usually they're a college student. We don't manufacture ordinary caps and gowns. We're just delivering them during the season, often by hiring a delivery company.

There isn't some big temp worker hiring that happens during that season. And that wouldn't make sense in our business. The stuff we do is too complicated to train someone on how to do it and then let them go months later. That would be a losing proposition. We'd invest more in the training than we'd get in production. Most of our employees have been there for many years. Some over 20 years.

No we don't have any vendors in Mexico. I looked into it years ago but a small business group I belonged to had a guy who convinced me it was a horrible idea. He had a factory there for a time, and his trucks would literally get hijacked.

So you see yourself as the Mini Me version of George Soros then, how petit bourgeois of you.
"Meh."

SHARK

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #476 on: January 01, 2023, 03:51:09 PM »
Greetings!

I was thinking about some of this while having breakfast earlier.

The desire to be mature, nice, and reasonable.

The Liberals don't ask themselves that. They are not worried about being nice, mature, or reasonable.

They ask themselves how can we humiliate, bankrupt, and destroy our enemies? You see this throughout the Liberal sphere. Straight out of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. By any means necessary.

These freaks and tyrants are the people in power. They are the nuts driving the train--not some nice, mature, reasonable people.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
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Trond

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #477 on: January 01, 2023, 04:21:01 PM »
For those who think we’re talking about entirely different cultures; I have noticed that in America, there’s a strong tendency for hyper-conservative families to breed rebellious leftist kids. There’s a bit of the opposite too, but I have seen somewhat less of it.

This is a Hollywood trope but the statistical evidence (insofar as you should trust anything that comes out of social science) does not align with this outcome.

Conservative parents raising kids in conservative ways generally tend to raise conservative children. The outside influence of (peer group / media environment) can lead children to be rebellious but the effect is reduced the more conservative/religious the parents. For example, among the Amish, fewer young adults who are going on Rumspringa are choosing to abandon their faith & lifestyle than in the past. It's the children of Lefty/Liberal parents who are more prone to radicalism.

Don't know about Hollywood trope, nor have I looked into the statistics, but I have seen it several times in real life.

Mistwell

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #478 on: January 01, 2023, 06:54:31 PM »
I've said that many time here before. That you missed it is funny.

I've never seen it, but now I know.

Contrary to those who wish to banish you to the Big Purple Arsehole, I want you to stay. You serve a valuable function, telling us what the Establishment swamp thinks.

Hey you dumb insane fucker, I'm not a Big Purple poster and didn't come here from there.  I remember when Morrus handed this url over to Pundit, was here long before you arrived, and will likely be here still long after you move on to whatever conspiracy theory site that eventually absorbs your tiny brain into it's collective madness.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2023, 07:08:17 PM by Mistwell »

Mistwell

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Re: Reconciliation
« Reply #479 on: January 01, 2023, 06:57:15 PM »
And I got to ask, why is this about my personal business, when we were talking about reconciliation? I certainly never raised it, and even the side comment in parathesis about globalism doesn't warrant an examination of my private business.

Wow, that sweatshop comment really struck a nerve with you!
Methinks thou dost protest too much!

So, how many temp workers do you hire when cap and gown season for graduates rolls around? Or do you just ship the work south of the border because the labor is cheaper?

Naw the sweatshop comment wasn't that big a deal. It was the slave labor comment that bugged me.

Not sure what you're getting at with these questions? We hire one office worker that is temp during the cap and gown season to help enter orders. Usually the daughter of another office worker, or someone else related to someone else we know. Usually they're a college student. We don't manufacture ordinary caps and gowns. We're just delivering them during the season, often by hiring a delivery company.

There isn't some big temp worker hiring that happens during that season. And that wouldn't make sense in our business. The stuff we do is too complicated to train someone on how to do it and then let them go months later. That would be a losing proposition. We'd invest more in the training than we'd get in production. Most of our employees have been there for many years. Some over 20 years.

No we don't have any vendors in Mexico. I looked into it years ago but a small business group I belonged to had a guy who convinced me it was a horrible idea. He had a factory there for a time, and his trucks would literally get hijacked.

So you see yourself as the Mini Me version of George Soros then, how petit bourgeois of you.

I don't see my self in any way relating to George Soros. In fact the only thing I have in common with him is we're both Jewish, which I suspect is at least part of what you meant.