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Really Green Ronin

Started by Abraxus, March 15, 2018, 07:31:32 AM

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Ras Algethi

#15
March 16, 2018, 01:00:19 PM
Quote from: Motorskills;1029661So you agree that Weinstein did nothing wrong, at least not yet. Just checking.

Quote from: estar;1029647Keep it on the specifics of Green Ronin, otherwise start a new thread in the Pundit's forum.
^^^^

Motorskills

#16
March 16, 2018, 01:10:18 PM
Quote from: Ras Algethi;1029662^^^^

True that, thanks.


Green Ronin argued (back in November) that they have been a progressive company, and I would say that there is indeed plenty of evidence for that. Certainly they have received lots of "love" in this forum over the years for their various efforts in that regard.

And working to create a harassment prevention programme should normally be a good thing, even as part of making amends for earlier screw-ups.
But they aren't selling it like that, and they aren't executing it very well either.

The thread on RPGnet has a more detailed history / explanation of why it is all so messed up.
"Gosh it's so interesting (profoundly unsurprising) how men with all these opinions about women's differentiation between sexual misconduct, assault and rape reveal themselves to be utterly tone deaf and as a result, systemically part of the problem." - Minnie Driver, December 2017

" Using the phrase "virtue signalling" is \'I\'m a sociopath\' signalling ". J Wright, July 2018

Armchair Gamer

#17
March 16, 2018, 01:56:40 PM Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 02:01:52 PM by Armchair Gamer
Quote from: Ulairi;1029644Green Ronin has shrunk in business as 5E has become healthy. The best thing for these third tier publishers business was an unhealthy D&D.

  Pelgrane Press once stated that the growth of D&D was good for 13th Age and their business as a whole, and they seem more likely to know. But maybe they've got a different model and style. I do wonder if neglecting M&M in favor of AGE has wound up being a bad move for GR.

QuoteNow that D&D is healthy again their business is shrinking so they are retreating into their cocoon of identity politics. They want to live on hipster welfare.

   They did lose my business as they moved more and more overtly progressive in all their product lines and general corporate policy. I think the breaking point was when the Blue Rose 2E kickstarter seemed to say "Anyone who isn't completely onboard with Aldea's celebration of pansexuality and demonization of thinly-veiled conservative Christians is an Enemy of Love and Gaming!"

  (All right, maybe that's an exaggeration. Maybe. :D)

Dave 2

#18
March 16, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
From the title I thought this thread would be something else entirely.  Below is my idea of a really green ronin.

Warboss Squee

#19
March 16, 2018, 08:16:19 PM
Quote from: MonsterSlayer;1029618I read that with the announcer's voice from the old show "Soap". Damn I'm old.

[video=youtube_share;OSaNWYHmUvI]https://youtu.be/OSaNWYHmUvI[/youtube]

That takes me back.

James Gillen

#20
March 17, 2018, 12:14:14 PM
Quote from: Motorskills;1029665True that, thanks.


Green Ronin argued (back in November) that they have been a progressive company, and I would say that there is indeed plenty of evidence for that. Certainly they have received lots of "love" in this forum over the years for their various efforts in that regard.

And working to create a harassment prevention programme should normally be a good thing, even as part of making amends for earlier screw-ups.
But they aren't selling it like that, and they aren't executing it very well either.

The thread on RPGnet has a more detailed history / explanation of why it is all so messed up.

Yes, but it's not like RPGnet doesn't have at least one thread on SJW hand-wringing, and it's not like I want to wade through 71 pages of each just to glean the point.
If people don't like Lindroos or GR's response to harrassment issues, or said response was counterproductive, I guess that explains why they think a policy vetted by lawyers is a good idea.  Clearly just trusting people's instincts isn't good enough in all cases.

JG
-My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass.
 -Christopher Hitchens
-Be very very careful with any argument that calls for hurting specific people right now in order to theoretically help abstract people later.
-Daztur

Motorskills

#21
March 17, 2018, 12:21:42 PM
Quote from: James Gillen;1029838Yes, but it's not like RPGnet doesn't have at least one thread on SJW hand-wringing, and it's not like I want to wade through 71 pages of each just to glean the point.
If people don't like Lindroos or GR's response to harrassment issues, or said response was counterproductive, I guess that explains why they think a policy vetted by lawyers is a good idea.  Clearly just trusting people's instincts isn't good enough in all cases.

JG

Pro-Tip: change the page length to 200. ;)

They (GR) were never going to be able to please everyone in the hobby.

But I'm just surprised they didn't handle this a bit better. If the idea was to get industry-wide agreement on a policy (a good idea), they could have unveiled it a bit more cleverly.
"Gosh it's so interesting (profoundly unsurprising) how men with all these opinions about women's differentiation between sexual misconduct, assault and rape reveal themselves to be utterly tone deaf and as a result, systemically part of the problem." - Minnie Driver, December 2017

" Using the phrase "virtue signalling" is \'I\'m a sociopath\' signalling ". J Wright, July 2018

Gorilla_Zod

#23
March 17, 2018, 08:24:08 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1029852Can someone tell me what Suleiman's accused of?

From what I can glean, this Suleiman's not only named after a Neil Diamond song, but is also a bit of a Weinstein with the ladies.
Running: RC D&D, 5e D&D, Delta Green

Ratman_tf

#24
March 17, 2018, 08:33:40 PM
Quote from: Gorilla_Zod;1029919From what I can glean, this Suleiman's not only named after a Neil Diamond song, but is also a bit of a Weinstein with the ladies.

And, of course, we have to wrestle with the idea of how to treat someone accused, and how to treat the accusers.* Which ranges from witch hunts against the accused, to tossing the accusers under the bus. I like to think there's a sane and rational path in between the two extremes. And the cynical side of me thinks most like their extreme reaction better.

*By this, I mean the peanut gallery puts in their two cents.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Shawn Driscoll

#25
March 17, 2018, 08:48:01 PM
What happens at a gaming table when someone mentions Trump? Do all harassment policies go out the window then?

Ratman_tf

#26
March 17, 2018, 11:23:49 PM
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1029923What happens at a gaming table when someone mentions Trump? Do all harassment policies go out the window then?

I think it turns out something like this...

[video=youtube_share;tMrzdKzQTf8]https://youtu.be/tMrzdKzQTf8[/youtube]
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Christopher Brady

#27
March 18, 2018, 02:09:09 AM
Quote from: Motorskills;1029661So you agree that Weinstein did nothing wrong, at least not yet. Just checking.

Not what he said as usual, your strawman is showing, he's saying that it's kinda scary how willing we are to get rid of due process of law, whenever a woman suddenly accuses a man.  I also have a completely unrelated question dealing with the constitution, but I won't ask it.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon\'s toast!  To life\'s little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

estar

#28
March 18, 2018, 08:41:46 AM
Quote from: Christopher Brady;1029940Not what he said as usual, your strawman is showing, he's saying that it's kinda scary how willing we are to get rid of due process of law, whenever a woman suddenly accuses a man.  I also have a completely unrelated question dealing with the constitution, but I won't ask it.

Last warning for everybody keep it on the specifics of Green Ronin or start a new thread in Pundit's forums.

Christopher Brady

#29
March 18, 2018, 07:22:35 PM
Quote from: estar;1029955Last warning for everybody keep it on the specifics of Green Ronin or start a new thread in Pundit's forums.

The issue I have is how this bleeds into the politics.  Green Ronin seems to be hip deep into trying to seem to be onboard with the this extreme strange super-Leftist movement, and it starting to affect their games.  It's affecting the background of their settings and characters that the GM can use as NPC's.  I like M&M 3e, for example, but there's things in each of their books that just seem forced in because they have to seem, what's the word?  Woke?  Woken?

The only politics I want is any that pertains to the setting.  Like say, in the Forgotten Realms.  The City of Waterdeep is part of a Faction called The Lord's Alliance, a grouping of major cities that have banded for protection and promotion of their societies.  However, one of these allies is being lead by a man that used to rule The City of Splendours, the former Open Lord, Neverember.  He's now the Lord Protector of Neverwinter. So they have to deal with the man they ousted out of their own city, but now rules the City of Skilled Hands.  They can't piss him off, because he's an ally in control of a very powerful city in itself, but they don't really trust him because of the mess he created when he was the Open Lord.

Thing is, he's not an 'evil' man, it's just his ruling style was incompatible to the Nobles and Hidden Lords of Waterdeep.  However, because the Guilds backed the Nobles in their coup to oust him, Neverember has implemented rules and regulations in Neverwinter that prevent the organization of Guilds and is taxing the Nobility heavily.  And all this will affect the game, even down to the PC level.  It's rife with all sorts of adventures, and although I'm sure people can make real world analogs to the situation I just described, it's not actively based on anything real life.

Unfortunately, we don't get that with Green Ronin.  And I'm admittedly getting very frustrated with really stupid ideas coming from them and trying to not have it be some sort of moralizing soapbox.  I'm not gaming to soapbox, I'm here to have fun, drink pop (yeah, an Irish descendant who doesn't drink, go me) eat junkfood and play make-believe with my friends using funny shaped, random number generators.  Just let me have that, please.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon\'s toast!  To life\'s little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]
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