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Author Topic: Re: the end result of the SJW plague.  (Read 2696 times)

crkrueger

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2021, 06:51:00 AM »
Of course that choice also carries certain risks as well, because you have to have common support to enforce an internal action unless the population is unarmed.
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jhkim

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2021, 11:23:19 AM »

    What I DO think is true is plenty of people making good salaries just keep their mouths shut when they get a dose of mandatory training from these sorts of people.   If all the people who got a tingle to speak up all did, well that might change something.  Given about 80 percent of the population is a wage slave to debt, I do not forsee people en masse doing too much about it.

You are correct about this...but it also the weak link.  If the economy truly breaks the debt slaves will have nothing left to lose. 
This is why they have the whole 'avoid economic collapse at all cost' dial turned up to 11.

This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however. So what changes should the people implement if they were to rise up en masse against their elite employers?

oggsmash

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2021, 11:44:53 AM »

    What I DO think is true is plenty of people making good salaries just keep their mouths shut when they get a dose of mandatory training from these sorts of people.   If all the people who got a tingle to speak up all did, well that might change something.  Given about 80 percent of the population is a wage slave to debt, I do not forsee people en masse doing too much about it.

You are correct about this...but it also the weak link.  If the economy truly breaks the debt slaves will have nothing left to lose. 
This is why they have the whole 'avoid economic collapse at all cost' dial turned up to 11.

This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however. So what changes should the people implement if they were to rise up en masse against their elite employers?

    Oversimplification.  But wage slaves wont rise up to do shit.  The very name implies they will simply do as told.  The problems come in when the people telling them what to do can not deliver on things, and a new gang starts telling them to do something else and they go along with it.  Equating populism automatically to communism is IMO a short sighted mistake.  But I do think right leaning people are going to start organizing and acting in a much more collective manner.  It works extremely well for fringe leftists to gain power, so it should work well for the fringe right to start using collectivism and organizing as well.  Of course the Right will be LOADED with feds and CIs looking to act towards provoking bullshit.  I think it is VERY telling that the government and the press loses their shit immediately when any sort of white collective even whisper gets in the air, but it is fine for all leftists or any other racial/ethnic group to operate as an organization or collective.   All of the right is not white, but most of the white are on the right.  So it lends to reason that the left will attempt to call anything on the right "supremacist".  I think this has been way overplayed and the ultimate fruit of those seeds is going to eventually be a very hard right, possibly very identitarian movement rising and then all hell breaks loose.

  (Edited to add: yes the feds have done the same in the past to 'left' organizations that rose up as well, but I am not talking whataboutism or feel good for one side or another, I am talking the here and now, because the here and now (with CRT and singing trannie songs on blues clues) affects me and my kids.  I have never supported any part of the feds and their investigations ever.  So save it.)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 11:49:31 AM by oggsmash »

Doc Sammy

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2021, 12:04:33 PM »
The SJWs are ultimately a distraction because the people with the real wealth and power are using them as useful idiots to get things they want. Which is basically cementing control over every human being & the entire planet through currency & technocratic systems.

Tyrants use moral dogmas to justify their despotism.

Morality is what gives tyranny its power.

The feudal lords of the medieval era used Christianity, the commissars of Soviet Russia used Marxism and atheism, and our modern corporate feudal overlords use Social Justice, atheism, black supremacy, anarcho-communism, and the dogmas of intersectional leftism.

These corporate bigwigs want to turn America into a neo-feudal hellscape where we own nothing and happiness is mandatory. They want America to become a modern day Camelot.

And I'm not talking about the shining chivalrous Camelot found in the propaganda of writers such as Geoffrey of Monmouth, Sir Thomas Malory, T.H. White, or Marion Zimmer-Bradley.

I'm talking about the actual Camelot, a feudal tyranny lorded over by vile moralist despots.

Guys like Bezos, Zuckerberg, Dorsey, Kamala, Wojicki, Iger, and the like are all just wannabe feudal overlords. Just like King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table.

Mordred did nothing wrong.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 05:20:43 PM by Doc Sammy »
Sic Semper Tyrannis

moonsweeper

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2021, 12:28:32 PM »

    What I DO think is true is plenty of people making good salaries just keep their mouths shut when they get a dose of mandatory training from these sorts of people.   If all the people who got a tingle to speak up all did, well that might change something.  Given about 80 percent of the population is a wage slave to debt, I do not forsee people en masse doing too much about it.

You are correct about this...but it also the weak link.  If the economy truly breaks the debt slaves will have nothing left to lose. 
This is why they have the whole 'avoid economic collapse at all cost' dial turned up to 11.

This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however. So what changes should the people implement if they were to rise up en masse against their elite employers?

I am a laissez-faire an-cap/minarchist type...

I am opposed to any type of totalitarian style control, whether it be communist, fascist or the current 'crony so-called capitalism'

If you think the current system is 'capitalism' you might want to read a few books on the subject...

True capitalism doesn't have legal barriers like 'only qualified investors get to sign on for IPOs', 'financial firms get bailed out by government for making bad loans after the government mandated said loans' or 'fiat currencies with an inflation rate tax that only affects certain people".

Kind of like Bill Gates supposedly being this huge philanthropist and all in favor of helping the less fortunate...unless your name was Netscape.

...as for unions/proletariat banding together for more wages.  I am all for them doing that.  More power to them if it works.  That would be a seller's market.  I am also all for their employer to say something like "The labor pool is big enough I can find enough other people who need the jobs, so you are fired."  That would be a buyer's market.

What I am against is government creating artificial barriers that affect some people at the expense of others...

That means I don't agree with tariffs as long as the country in question is requiring companies to operate under the same restrictions as the US (ie no slave labor, similar environmental restrictions, etc)

It also means I have no problem with an open border (as soon as you end the federal level means tested programs, return my SS investment value over time adjusted by (10%+actual inflation), and remove all of the federal tax structure to be replaced by a 22% purchase tax on all 'new' items/services/etc.*)

*in case you are worried, poor people actually won't have to pay the tax.  Everyone in the US gets a monthly check equivalent to 22% of the poverty level monthly income to cover that tax.  Effectively you are only paying if you are spending above the poverty level.


« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 12:31:26 PM by moonsweeper »
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Trond

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2021, 12:35:43 PM »

These corporate bigwigs want to turn America into a neo-feudal hellscape where we own nothing and happiness is mandatory. They want America to become a modern day Camelot.

And I'm not talking about the shining chivalrous Camelot found in the propaganda of writers such as Geoffrey of Monmouth, Sir Thomas Malory, T.H. White, or Marion Zimmer-Bradley.

I'm talking about the actual Camelot, a feudal tyranny lorded over by vile moralist despots.


"The actual Camelot"?

Pat

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2021, 01:36:48 PM »
This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however.
People complained about, resisted, and revolted against financial abuse long, long, long before Marx. Why are you assuming all instances are based on his version of communism?

moonsweeper

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2021, 01:55:58 PM »
This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however.
People complained about, resisted, and revolted against financial abuse long, long, long before Marx. Why are you assuming all instances are based on his version of communism?

Hence the reason I described myself by what I was and not as an anti-communist when I replied to him.  ;)
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

jeff37923

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2021, 01:58:59 PM »
This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however.
People complained about, resisted, and revolted against financial abuse long, long, long before Marx. Why are you assuming all instances are based on his version of communism?
Because jhkim is trying to play "Gotcha!"

Doc Sammy

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2021, 02:32:55 PM »

These corporate bigwigs want to turn America into a neo-feudal hellscape where we own nothing and happiness is mandatory. They want America to become a modern day Camelot.

And I'm not talking about the shining chivalrous Camelot found in the propaganda of writers such as Geoffrey of Monmouth, Sir Thomas Malory, T.H. White, or Marion Zimmer-Bradley.

I'm talking about the actual Camelot, a feudal tyranny lorded over by vile moralist despots.


"The actual Camelot"?

Feudal Europe, which Camelot was supposed to be the platonic ideal of.

Le Morte D'Arthur was written in 1485, right as feudalism was starting to decline in England as the aftereffects of the Black Death and (more importantly in Britain) the War of the Roses. Many nobles had this wistful sense of nostalgia for a time long gone.

"Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" and intersectionality is just the modern equivalent of concepts like chivalry and "The Divine Right of Kings". Moralist precepts to justify a tyrannical and feudal system and to declare any opposition to it as immoral and heretical.

Except the old feudal lords had to worry about peasant rebellions if they were too brute. The modern corporate feudal lords are above the law and can easily crush any rebellion and isolate themselves fully from us peasants.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 10:49:23 PM by Doc Sammy »
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moonsweeper

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2021, 03:53:43 PM »
This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however.
People complained about, resisted, and revolted against financial abuse long, long, long before Marx. Why are you assuming all instances are based on his version of communism?
Because jhkim is trying to play "Gotcha!"

Maybe...

You notice he used the term 'wage slave' while the term I used was 'debt slave'.
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

"Just, can you make it The Ramones at least? I only listen to Abba when I want to fuck a stripper." -- Jeff37923

"Government is the only entity that relies on its failures to justify the expansion of its powers." -- David Freiheit (Viva Frei)

jhkim

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2021, 09:18:54 PM »
This talk about how the elite hold people as wage slaves and rising en masse to change things sounds to me a lot like a proletarian revolution.

My understanding is that you're very anti-communist, however. So what changes should the people implement if they were to rise up en masse against their elite employers?
People complained about, resisted, and revolted against financial abuse long, long, long before Marx. Why are you assuming all instances are based on his version of communism?

I'm not assuming - that's why I asked as a question what they were trying for. There were certainly worker revolutions prior to Marx, but those were usually rebelling against a hereditary aristocracy - and even so, had many similarities to post-Marx worker revolutions. Since Marx, all the worker revolutions that I'm familiar with have been communist or at least widely considered communist.

That doesn't mean any future revolutions have to be that, though - that's what I'm curious about. In a modern society - what would a non-Marxist revolution of workers against employers look like?


But wage slaves wont rise up to do shit.  The very name implies they will simply do as told.  The problems come in when the people telling them what to do can not deliver on things, and a new gang starts telling them to do something else and they go along with it.  Equating populism automatically to communism is IMO a short sighted mistake.  But I do think right leaning people are going to start organizing and acting in a much more collective manner.  It works extremely well for fringe leftists to gain power, so it should work well for the fringe right to start using collectivism and organizing as well.  Of course the Right will be LOADED with feds and CIs looking to act towards provoking bullshit.

I would agree that organizing is appropriate - but how well it furthers them depends on how well they can make their case. A big question here is what sort of organizing they do, since leftist organizing in past decades had major differences among them. i.e. Will this be more like MLK and SNCC? Or will it be more like Malcolm X and the Black Panther Party? I think that could make a big difference in how well they are received by the mainstream.

Either way, I agree that they will be opposed by feds as well as some state agencies, and this is wrong - they have the right to collective organization and free speech.

But the talk of organizing doesn't quite answer my question - which is what is the systemic change that the organizing is aimed at creating? i.e. What would their demands be, and what would be considered success? If they are opposing the rich and powerful elite, will they leave their wealth and power in place?

Spinachcat

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2021, 01:18:47 AM »
Because jhkim is trying to play "Gotcha!"

Is it a day that ends in y already?

Melan

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2021, 04:19:44 AM »
I used to be more optimistic, even a few years ago, and thought it would burn itself out. This is not something I can believe anymore, since it is too deep in our society, and owns most institutions of note, from state power to the business world and intellectual life. I can see three basic ways out from this, and none offering a return to the normality we (foolishly?) took for granted.

  • If the powers that be have everything under control, expect a totalitarian corporate woke dystopia. A surveillance state existing to sell you toxic mortgages and expensive pharmaceutical plans, and harvest your body and soul for data and content to sell in exchange. Ready and capable to punish any form of dissent, and sufficiently smart to disavow involvement. Real rainbow-teal power, love and acceptance Raytheon- and Coca-Cola-style.
  • A stronger, more aggressive ideology forcefully renouncing moral degeneracy and the gross unfairness of hyper-globalisation might end up challenging and dislodging the festering woke virus. The usual fear is "the nazis", but the nazis are a spent ideology, and not coming back. I would instead bet on the moral clarity of Islam. This will not be the Islam of perpetually poor third-world countries, but Euro-Islam as retold by young and angry white men, just as aggressive as Wahhabism but equipped with the philosophy, science, and instruments of the modern state. If you say "they can't do it", I will say: "angry young, white men are capable of everything they set their minds to".
  • A last minute save, a swing of the pendulum and a pivot back to a much more conservative but still recognisably "Western" society, modelled on the American/European 1950s. It is not really possible to go back to the 2000s or 1990s, because the rot was too deep even back then. You can only establish a new, liveable conservative order if you give it adequate buffer, and reinforce your boundaries, in the form of a soft authoritarianism. We may be reasonably OK and reasonably happy under the likes of President Tucker, one of the smarter Le Pens (or a very smart Macron), and Viktor Orban (who is really the first successful modern politico offering this bargain). There will have to be sacrifices. But people may ultimately agree to them to prevent the worse option from coming back (see: every Hungarian election since 2010). This is the best available and the least likely option.
As for us Burkean conservatives, old-school liberals, careful hedonists, and doubting Thomases of all sorts: realise that our time is over, and is not coming back within our lifetime. This is it. They are coming, and the wisest you can do is stand aside. Enjoy it while it lasts, and hope in a just and merciful God. I can offer and recommend my dad's favourite quote, from Ovid: "Bene qui latuit, bene vixit." ("He who hid well, lived well.")
Now with a Zine!
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Shasarak

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Re: the end result of the SJW plague.
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2021, 05:05:57 AM »
As for us Burkean conservatives, old-school liberals, careful hedonists, and doubting Thomases of all sorts: realise that our time is over, and is not coming back within our lifetime. This is it. They are coming, and the wisest you can do is stand aside. Enjoy it while it lasts, and hope in a just and merciful God. I can offer and recommend my dad's favourite quote, from Ovid: "Bene qui latuit, bene vixit." ("He who hid well, lived well.")

Personally I am far too disagreeable to just stand aside.

There will be poor always,
pathetically struggling,
look at the good things you've got! -  Jesus