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Author Topic: President Trump has Covid19  (Read 11006 times)

Brad

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2020, 08:37:02 PM »
Overly literal to the point absurdity. Analogous to, "I didn't say my opponent didn't kill the guy, I said he manslaughtered the guy." AND still doesn't acknowledge the UV injection claim you made, so still shifting the goalpost.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronsonstocking/2020/04/24/potential-wuhan-coronavirus-treatment-uses-uv-light-to-disinfect-lungs-n2567591


What point are you trying to make?
It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.

DocJones

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2020, 08:43:48 PM »
Stop. We seem to have a misunderstanding right here. Who do you think conducts a recount? The county canvassers. Who do you think orders one? Depending on the state, it could be the county canvasser, it could be the Secretary of State, or it could arise as an operation of law.

I am well aware that recounts are performed by county canvassers.  I am also aware that recounts are ordered by the SoS or operation of State law. 
However, County election boards do not order recounts for State or Federal office holders, ONLY local office holders or issues.

Quote
That ought to be obvious, because such elections are decided at the State level.  In fact both Alabama and Colorado State election law says  that ALL BALLOTS IN A GIVEN CONTEST must be counted in a recount.  Can't find Alaska.

You sure about that? Because Colorado law 1-10.5-102 absolutely would allow a recount of only specific counties in a Federal election. (I'll let you figure out which one, specifically, would qualify under that law, but that's also not the only way a recount could be authorized: there's also the Colorado Common Law. If you wish to limit it to JUST the President, there are still ways to do it legally under the common law.) (Hint: pay VERY close attention to my phrasing. It matters.)

It's clear - 1-10.5-102
(1) If the secretary of state determines that a recount is required for the office of United States senator, representative in congress, any state office or district office of state concern, any state ballot question, or any state ballot issue certified for the ballot by the secretary of state, the secretary of state shall order a complete recount of all the votes cast for that office, state ballot question, or state ballot issue no later than the thirtieth day after the election.


Nowhere does it say County officials can order a recount for a State or Federal election.
I'm not even going to address the fiction that Colorado Common Law says anything at all on the matter of elections.


DocJones

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2020, 08:57:00 PM »
Oh, and if you do want one that explicitly, word for word, authorizes what I'm talking about for a Presidential level: Texas.

(Texas Election Code § 212.131(d) allows recounts of "one or more election precincts" and less than the whole; specifically it's where a counting error has occurred and certified as such. Note the enactment date of that provision of the code: September 1st, 2001. It was voted on earlier that year. Why? Bush v. Gore.)

The law says all ballots must be recounted.  It do allow a specific precinct to be recounted, but note the requirements:
https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._election_code_section_212.034
Election judges have to sign affidavits explaining the nature of mistake and the SoS has to approve the request for the recount of the precinct.

I will say it one last time. 
No State has a law where a county can can order a recount in a federal election just because it's a close election in that county or precinct. 
Makes no sense.


Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2020, 09:08:32 PM »
The law says all ballots must be recounted.  It do allow a specific precinct to be recounted, but note the requirements:
https://texas.public.law/statutes/tex._election_code_section_212.034
Election judges have to sign affidavits explaining the nature of mistake and the SoS has to approve the request for the recount of the precinct.


Bingo. Good that you spotted that you can recount just a specific county.

Quote
I will say it one last time. 
No State has a law where a county can can order a recount in a federal election just because it's a close election in that county or precinct. 
Makes no sense.

That's not what you said. What you said was:

Quote
No actually it would violate Bush v. Gore, because the argument was the standard for recount had to be statewide, not by county.  There is no State where Federal elections would be recounted in the manner you suggest.

Did you catch it?

Quote
had to be statewide, not by county.

That is not at all what Bush v. Gore said, and my point is upheld by that Texas law which you just admitted allows you to recount only specific areas when the Secretary of State has certified errors exist. That would allow a Presidential election to be recounted in only a couple of counties, where a voter discrepancy exists, instead of statewide.

Thank you, next!

Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2020, 09:15:09 PM »
I am well aware that recounts are performed by county canvassers.  I am also aware that recounts are ordered by the SoS or operation of State law. 
However, County election boards do not order recounts for State or Federal office holders, ONLY local office holders or issues.

Not in Colorado, but I didn't say they did in Colorado. I said, "depending on state." That was important.

Quote
It's clear - 1-10.5-102
(1) If the secretary of state determines that a recount is required for the office of United States senator, representative in congress, any state office or district office of state concern, any state ballot question, or any state ballot issue certified for the ballot by the secretary of state, the secretary of state shall order a complete recount of all the votes cast for that office, state ballot question, or state ballot issue no later than the thirtieth day after the election.


Nowhere does it say County officials can order a recount for a State or Federal election.

That wasn't the claim. The claim I made was "1-10.5-102 absolutely would allow a recount of only specific counties in a Federal election." Now, can you guess WHICH federal election it would allow that in?

Quote
I'm not even going to address the fiction that Colorado Common Law says anything at all on the matter of elections.

There are over 1,000 cases involving the Common Law of Colorado having to do with recounts in some way. 100 in State Court, and over 900 in the 10th Circuit, of which around 150 made it to the Supreme Court of the United States. So what you call fiction is unfortunately quite factual.

DocJones

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2020, 09:23:59 PM »
That's not what you said. What you said was:

Quote
No actually it would violate Bush v. Gore, because the argument was the standard for recount had to be statewide, not by county.  There is no State where Federal elections would be recounted in the manner you suggest.

Did you catch it?

Which was inresponse to what you said:
Quote from: Tanin Wolf
I can have a rule, and it stands under Bush v. Gore, where only counties where the tally was within 5% have to be recounted.

Did you catch it?!
Q.E.D.



myleftnut

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2020, 09:24:37 PM »
What pisses me off about Trump is that he’s cracked under the pressure and has looked like a fool too many times.  The interview with that Fox guy and the Axios one were embarrassing.  Then he comes out and says “maybe I’m immune!”   When if you look at the balcony skit he did he was clearly having trouble breathing and wincing in pain.  Someone mentioned the inject bleach bit.  It did piss me off that the fake news was suggesting that, when the real story is he said something completely idiotic and instead of just saying “that came out wrong” he doubled down with a pathetic lie. 
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 09:26:57 PM by myleftnut »

Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2020, 09:25:30 PM »
What point are you trying to make?

That Mr. Trump did not mean then, nor when he offered his explanation, that the disinfectant was related to UV light, contrary to the supposition of:

Quote from: Ratman_tf
Hell, if someone told me that doctors were using UV light and some kind of disinfectant interally, to treat an infection, I'd have just gone, "Well, neat!"
As usual, the media spin against Trump is built on a rickety scaffold of misinterpretations.

That this is not what Mr. Trump's conversation was about, in person. To take Mr. Trump's words to mean that the President believed the disinfectants were UV light is as disingenuous as saying that Trump literally said, "inject bleach." Neither is true. The President's own explanation afterwords refutes the claim.

Anything else about whether or not UV light works is irrelevant to what he said then and what he meant then as demonstrated in the actual video and the President's explanation afterwords. The simple fact is that's not what that conversation was about. UV light was mentioned. Disinfectants were mentioned. It is clear from context that these were not the same thing.

The President, when asked about it, even said, ". . . if the sun is out or they use a disinfectant . . ." He did not mean UV light treatment and that much is obvious. These were two, separate, and distinct things in the flow of the conversation.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 09:28:20 PM by Tanin Wulf »

Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #98 on: October 06, 2020, 09:26:49 PM »
Did you catch it?!
Q.E.D.

Yes, and you failed to show how Bush v. Gore actually met that standard. Whereas I explained where the Due Process claim in Bush v. Gore was applied and then provided examples of where you could do that and it's currently legal.

DocJones

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2020, 09:30:28 PM »
I'm not even going to address the fiction that Colorado Common Law says anything at all on the matter of elections.

There are over 1,000 cases involving the Common Law of Colorado having to do with recounts in some way. 100 in State Court, and over 900 in the 10th Circuit, of which around 150 made it to the Supreme Court of the United States. So what you call fiction is unfortunately quite factual.
I call it fiction when we decide to hand wave to some mythical case law rather than cite anything relevant.



Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #100 on: October 06, 2020, 09:31:11 PM »
Someone mentioned the inject bleach bit.  It did piss me off that the fake news was suggesting that, when the real story is he said something completely idiotic and instead of just saying “that came out wrong” he doubled down with a pathetic lie.

That is probably the closest explanation to what actually happened there that anyone on this board has hit. (Though I would have sought to use less inflammatory, more  charitable, words, that's your choice to make. :) )

Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #101 on: October 06, 2020, 09:33:02 PM »
I call it fiction when we decide to hand wave to some mythical case law rather than cite anything relevant.

Again, you made a claim:

Quote
I'm not even going to address the fiction that Colorado Common Law says anything at all on the matter of elections.

So if there's even 1 case that says anything on the matter of elections in Colorado, regardless of anything else, your claim is refuted.

There are over 1,000. They are not all relevant to the President, but that's not what you claimed.

DocJones

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #102 on: October 06, 2020, 09:33:06 PM »
Yes, and you failed to show how Bush v. Gore actually met that standard. Whereas I explained where the Due Process claim in Bush v. Gore was applied and then provided examples of where you could do that and it's currently legal.

There is a reason you keep editing my quote of your statement out of your replies.
It's because you know it was stupid.  :-)



Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #103 on: October 06, 2020, 09:34:37 PM »
No, it's because I irrationally hate quote pyramids.

Delete_me

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #104 on: October 06, 2020, 09:42:22 PM »
For the record, according  to Westlaw, here's 100 cases that are, in some way, connected to elections in Colorado:

1. Gray v. Huntley
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 01, 1925 77 Colo. 478 238 P. 53
2. People ex rel. Harper v. City of Pueblo
Supreme Court of Colorado. May 04, 1942 109 Colo. 411 126 P.2d 339
3. Kindel v. Le Bert
Supreme Court of Colorado. January 18, 1897 23 Colo. 385 48 P. 641
4. Boger v. Smith
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 01, 1925 77 Colo. 475 238 P. 57
5. Winters v. Pacheco
Supreme Court of Colorado. September 22, 1930 88 Colo. 105 292 P. 1061
6. Clanton v. Ryan
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 13, 1890 14 Colo. 419 24 P. 258
7. Meyer v. Lamm
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. February 22, 1993 846 P.2d 862 1993 WL 43590
13, 1890 14 Colo. 419 24 P. 258
7. Meyer v. Lamm
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. February 22, 1993 846 P.2d 862 1993 WL 43590
8. Rohde v. Steinmetz
Supreme Court of Colorado. July 19, 1898 25 Colo. 308 55 P. 814
9. Leary v. Jones
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 05, 1911 51 Colo. 185 116 P. 130
10. Wiley v. McDowell
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 02, 1913 55 Colo. 236 133 P. 757
11. People v. Mitchell
Supreme Court of Colorado. October 07, 1930 88 Colo. 102 292 P. 228
12. People v. Lindsey
Supreme Court of Colorado. January 24, 1927 80 Colo. 465 253 P. 465
13. Cruse v. Richards
Supreme Court of Colorado. October 15, 1934 95 Colo. 485 37 P.2d 382
14. Bromley v. Hallock
Supreme Court of Colorado. April 06, 1914 57 Colo. 148 140 P. 186
15. People v. Parks
Supreme Court of Colorado,En Banc. May 08, 1978 195 Colo. 344 579 P.2d 76
16. Stoddard v. Kuhn
Supreme Court of Colorado. August 15, 1933 93 Colo. 201 24 P.2d 747
17. Erickson v. Blair
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. October 11, 1983 670 P.2d 749
18. People ex rel. Colorado Bar Ass'n v. Tanquary
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 06, 1910 48 Colo. 122 109 P. 260
19. Jones v. Samora
Supreme Court of Colorado. January 27, 2014 318 P.3d 462 2014 WL 279740
20. People v. McFee
Colorado Court of Appeals, Division II. June 30, 2016 412 P.3d 848 2016 WL 3600277
21. People v. Jensen
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. II. July 19, 2001 55 P.3d 135 2001 WL 811841
22. People v. Valencia
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. V. March 31, 2011 257 P.3d 1203 2011 WL 1195793
23. Moran v. Carlstrom
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. June 19, 1989 775 P.2d 1176 1989 WL 64645
24. Ochoa v. Vered
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. IV. April 16, 2009 212 P.3d 963 2009 WL 1012947
25. People v. Graham
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. III. October 13, 1983 678 P.2d 1043
26. People v. Chrysler
Supreme Court of Colorado. March 05, 1928 83 Colo. 355 265 P. 92
27. People v. Matheny
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. May 20, 2002 46 P.3d 453 2002 WL 1009210
28. Riley v. Trainor
Supreme Court of Colorado. April 06, 1914 57 Colo. 155 140 P. 469
29. Fleagle v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 09, 1930 87 Colo. 532 289 P. 1078
30. Kemp v. Heebner
Supreme Court of Colorado. April 06, 1925 77 Colo. 177 234 P. 1068
31. People v. Fried
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. June 30, 1995 898 P.2d 1066 1995 WL 387169
32. Mudd v. Dorr
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. I. September 15, 1977 40 Colo.App. 74 574 P.2d 97
33. Lewis v. Boynton
Supreme Court of Colorado. December 19, 1898 25 Colo. 486 55 P. 732
34. People v. Loggins
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. I. May 23, 1985 709 P.2d 25
35. Houser v. Eckhardt
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. February 17, 1969 168 Colo. 226 450 P.2d 664
36. Ritchey v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. December 07, 1896 23 Colo. 314 47 P. 272
37. Finance Acceptance Co. v. Breaux
Supreme Court of Colorado, In Department. September 26, 1966 160 Colo. 510 419 P.2d 955
38. Pope Heating & Air Conditioning Co. v. Garrett-Bromfield Mortg. Co.
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. I. January 26, 1971 29 Colo.App. 169 480 P.2d 602
39. Colorado Kenworth Corp. v. Whitworth
Supreme Court of Colorado, In Department. December 05, 1960 144 Colo. 541 357 P.2d 626
40. People v. Galloway
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. I. August 21, 1986 726 P.2d 249
41. People v. Scott
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. April 05, 2010 227 P.3d 894 2010 WL 1267354
42. Haley v. Austin
Supreme Court of Colorado. February 04, 1924 74 Colo. 571 223 P. 43
43. People v. Renfro
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. II. November 04, 2004 117 P.3d 43 2004 WL 2955149
44. Union Gold Mining Co. v. Rocky Mountain Nat. Bank
Supreme Court of Colorado Territory February 01, 1875 2 Colo. 565 1875 WL 314
45. People v. McClure
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. . June 06, 1988 756 P.2d 1008 1988 WL 55800
46. People v. Cox
Supreme Court of Colorado. February 06, 2017 401 P.3d 509 2017 WL 481620
47. Vigil v. Garcia
Supreme Court of Colorado. February 05, 1906 36 Colo. 430 87 P. 543
48. People v. Ramos
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. November 12, 1985 708 P.2d 1347
49. Ebel v. Rock Island Implement Co.
Supreme Court of Colorado. January 05, 1920 67 Colo. 135 186 P. 719
50. People v. Huckleberry
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. February 21, 1989 768 P.2d 1235 1989 WL 12847
51. Tangeman v. Coates
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 05, 1911 51 Colo. 208 117 P. 145
52. People v. Milan
Supreme Court of Colorado. November 09, 1931 89 Colo. 556 5 P.2d 249
53. Suttle v. Sullivan
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. May 09, 1955 131 Colo. 519 283 P.2d 636
54. People v. Fuller
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. March 05, 1990 788 P.2d 741 1990 WL 19150
55. Borg v. District Court of Second Judicial Dist., for City and County of Denver
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. August 20, 1984 686 P.2d 781
56. Londoner v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. February 06, 1891 15 Colo. 557 26 P. 135
57. People v. Jackson
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. April 27, 1981 627 P.2d 741
58. People v. Kazmierski
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. June 25, 2001 25 P.3d 1207 2001 WL 705685
59. Martinez v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. April 24, 2017 393 P.3d 557 2017 WL 1450127
60. Sky Fun 1 v. Schuttloffel
Supreme Court of Colorado. En Banc. July 02, 2001 27 P.3d 361 2001 WL 736487
61. Ochoa v. Vered
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. IV. April 17, 2008 186 P.3d 107 2008 WL 1745860
62. Capitran Inc. v. Great Western Bank
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. III. February 10, 1994 872 P.2d 1370 1994 WL 43672
63. Bermel v. BlueRadios, Inc.
Colorado Court of Appeals, Division VII. February 23, 2017 442 P.3d 923 2017 WL 710485
64. People v. Texas Co.
Supreme Court of Colorado. February 27, 1929 85 Colo. 289 275 P. 896
65. People v. District Court of Fifth Judicial Dist. In and For Clear Creek County
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. June 21, 1982 647 P.2d 1206
66. Department of Transportation v. Amerco Real Estate Company
Supreme Court of Colorado. September 26, 2016 380 P.3d 117 2016 WL 5375508
67. Fain v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 30, 2014 329 P.3d 270 2014 WL 2948970
68. Cook v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. February 02, 1914 56 Colo. 477 138 P. 756
69. Mehaffy, Rider, Windholz & Wilson v. Central Bank Denver, N.A.
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. January 30, 1995 892 P.2d 230 1995 WL 33071
70. Budget Rent-A-Car Corp. v. Martin
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. July 19, 1993 855 P.2d 1377 1993 WL 264700
71. People v. Vigil
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. April 14, 1986 718 P.2d 496
72. Foster v. Plock
Colorado Court of Appeals, Division VI. March 10, 2016 411 P.3d 1008 2016 WL 908728
73. Dawson v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. July 02, 2001 30 P.3d 213 2001 WL 736664
74. People v. Salaz
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. January 26, 1998 953 P.2d 1275 1998 WL 42266
75. People v. Thatcher
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. December 21, 1981 638 P.2d 760
76. Abshier v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 09, 1930 87 Colo. 507 289 P. 1081
77. People v. Hansen
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. III. November 09, 1995 920 P.2d 831 1995 WL 656873
78. Zab, Inc. v. Berenergy Corp.
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. June 05, 2006 136 P.3d 252 2006 WL 1520235
79. People v. Wieser
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. September 24, 1990 796 P.2d 982 1990 WL 136694
80. St. James v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. December 08, 1997 948 P.2d 1028 1997 WL 757895
81. Reppin v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 18, 1934 95 Colo. 192 34 P.2d 71
82. Martin v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. June 30, 2014 329 P.3d 247 2014 WL 2945800
83. People v. Fry
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. II. November 07, 2002 74 P.3d 360 2002 WL 31477777
84. Thatcher v. Rockwell
Supreme Court of Colorado December 01, 1878 4 Colo. 375 1878 WL 283
85. Fraternal Order of Police, Colorado Lodge No. 19 v. City of Commerce City
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. February 28, 2000 996 P.2d 133 2000 WL 224109
86. People v. Taylor
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. February 25, 2002 41 P.3d 681 2002 WL 257530
87. Isham v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. November 28, 1927 82 Colo. 550 262 P. 89
88. Buckley v. Chilcutt
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. November 23, 1998 968 P.2d 112 1998 WL 812866
89. Simpson v. Yale Investments, Inc.
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. December 19, 1994 886 P.2d 689 1994 WL 703299
90. People ex rel. Stidger v. Horan
Supreme Court of Colorado. November 06, 1905 34 Colo. 304 86 P. 252
91. People v. LaRosa
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. January 14, 2013 293 P.3d 567 2013 WL 142504
92. People v. Allgier
Colorado Court of Appeals, Division III. August 23, 2018 428 P.3d 713 2018 WL 4016565
93. Todd v. Bear Valley Village Apartments
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. April 26, 1999 980 P.2d 973 1999 WL 253095
94. People v. Williams
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. June 28, 1999 984 P.2d 56 1999 WL 431174
95. Young v. People
Supreme Court of Colorado. En Banc. July 02, 2001 30 P.3d 202 2001 WL 736571
96. Lobato v. State
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. October 19, 2009 218 P.3d 358 2009 WL 3337684
97. Colorado Coffee Bean, LLC v. Peaberry Coffee Inc.
Colorado Court of Appeals, Div. IV. February 18, 2010 251 P.3d 9 2010 WL 547633
98. Black v. Black
Colorado Court of Appeals, Division VI. January 25, 2018 422 P.3d 592 2018 WL 549693
99. United Airlines, Inc. v. Industrial Claim Appeals Office
Supreme Court of Colorado, En Banc. January 24, 2000 993 P.2d 1152 2000 WL 52892
100. Julius Hyman & Co. v. Velsicol Corp.
Supreme Court of Colorado, en Banc. May 28, 1951 123 Colo. 563 233 P.2d 977