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Author Topic: President Trump has Covid19  (Read 2539 times)

Spinachcat

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2020, 05:15:29 PM »
When early voting was initiated, I want to believe somebody drafting the rules had to have considered the possibility of a candidate dying. Anyone have a link to what's on the books? 

Ravenswing brings up a very good point about the electors and how they could just vote for who they want in states where there aren't specific rules about electors. I assume those states with elector rules forcing electors to cast their vote for the winning candidate would instead cast for the winning party, but there's the precedent of ineligibility in case of Trump dying before the election or even before the electors meet.

I swear, you guys.  Screaming "fake news" at anything you don't like -- wrapped up like mummies in your little echo chambers -- no matter how heavily attested and with incontrovertible proof.[/color]

I agree! We should go with incontrovertible proof!

Incontrovertible proof like how the box full of your face nappies says its does NOT protect from the China virus right on the side of the box!

Proof like how Dr. Birx of the NIH said the body count was being stuffed with people who died WITH the Rona, but not FROM the Rona. I can't wait until car accident victims get listed as heart disease deaths! He drove off the cliff, but he had CoronaChan so damn that murderous virus!!! And pay out our hospital that bonus cash baby! LOL.

Of course, my favorite incontrovertible proof was the CDC admitting only 6% of the body count died from the Rona whereas the other 94% had on average 2.6 additional co-morbidities.

Funny how nobody was sharing "grieving videos" in 2018 when 80k died from influenza in the USA. Why? Because it wasn't politically expedient to pimp their dead.


rawma

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2020, 05:19:58 PM »
I check in here just to see what craziness you guys are up to. Still mostly waiting for some actual election commentary rather than the usual railing against an invented reality. Ravenswing has opened the door to actual reality, so I guess I'll make a rare post.

Both parties have rules in place to replace nominees who are unable to continue; the article at https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee,_2020 seems to agree with everything else I've seen. Given that voting with the current ticket is already going, I suspect either party would continue with the deceased candidate and have the electors for that party determine who actually gets it, rather than risk splitting their general election votes between dead candidate and replacement candidate. (In 2000, Mel Carnahan won a Senate election despite being dead.)

I wonder why anyone would seek out commentary from the most extreme members of the other end of the political spectrum. (OK, I spend a little time here, but I would be surprised if anyone here is even close to the most extreme end of the right wing.)

The people on the left that I read have mostly offered sympathy (OK, Kos wants Trump to live so he can lose the election, be prosecuted and imprisoned, and see the ruin of his personal finances) or remained studiously neutral. In these sorts of situations, the right wing dredges up some obscure nobody to tar all Democrats, while it's major Republicans who advance cruel attacks and extreme conspiracy theories. A very common twitter post the last few days is Trump's mockery of Hillary Clinton's pneumonia, which coincidentally had its four year anniversary on Friday; and of course there's always a Trump tweet. While the Biden campaign has suspended negative advertising, the Trump campaign is still attacking Biden for wearing a mask too much and having smaller events. (Interestingly, at least one of the apostate Republicans who founded the Lincoln Project advocates keeping up the negative ads.)

Trump's doctor (medical or spin?) has admitted that he misrepresented things yesterday to be "upbeat"; nobody still in the administration has much credibility at this point, which is good for blunting any October surprises they may spring. Like their tax returns, the broad facts of a Presidential candidate's health should be known to the public. They knew enough from Hope Hicks' test result that Trump should never have gone to a buffet dinner maskless fundraiser on Thursday, even if Trump himself tested positive no earlier than the claimed timeline.

Since COVID-19 doesn't give up as quickly as human beings, I expect this will continue as the major topic of the rest of the campaign. Unlike calling members of the military suckers and losers, Woodward's tapes (ha, he almost used presidential tapes to bring down a Republican president early and late in his career), Trump not paying taxes, debate debacle, Melania's attacks on Christmas and separated children - not to mention all the things I've forgotten in just the past few weeks.

Ratman_tf

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2020, 05:58:03 PM »
Since COVID-19 doesn't give up as quickly as human beings, I expect this will continue as the major topic of the rest of the campaign. Unlike calling members of the military suckers and losers, Woodward's tapes (ha, he almost used presidential tapes to bring down a Republican president early and late in his career), Trump not paying taxes, debate debacle, Melania's attacks on Christmas and separated children - not to mention all the things I've forgotten in just the past few weeks.

Speaking of extreme conspiracy theories...
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Pat

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2020, 06:08:06 PM »
Both parties have rules in place to replace nominees who are unable to continue; the article at https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee,_2020 seems to agree with everything else I've seen. Given that voting with the current ticket is already going, I suspect either party would continue with the deceased candidate and have the electors for that party determine who actually gets it, rather than risk splitting their general election votes between dead candidate and replacement candidate. (In 2000, Mel Carnahan won a Senate election despite being dead.)
Specifically, the RNC will choose a new candidate. It's too late to change the name and reprint the ballots in most states, so Trump would remain on the ballot, not whomever the RNC chooses. At that point, it's up to the electoral college. In states where electors have discretion, they'll probably vote for the new RNC candidate. Some states do have laws that force electors to vote for whomever won the majority in the state, but the consequences are minor enough and they're unlikely to sanctioned away, so they'd probably vote the same way. And the RNC candidate would either lose or become president.

The one exception is if the electoral college didn't result in a majority winner, say if the RNC couldn't decide on a candidate so they split between Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney. In which case Biden will win, because the House decides.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/02/were-final-stages-presidential-election-what-happens-if-candidate-withdraws-or-dies/

jeff37923

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2020, 06:33:46 PM »
I check in here just to see what craziness you guys are up to. Still mostly waiting for some actual election commentary rather than the usual railing against an invented reality. Ravenswing has opened the door to actual reality, so I guess I'll make a rare post.

Both parties have rules in place to replace nominees who are unable to continue; the article at https://ballotpedia.org/State_laws_and_party_rules_on_replacing_a_presidential_nominee,_2020 seems to agree with everything else I've seen. Given that voting with the current ticket is already going, I suspect either party would continue with the deceased candidate and have the electors for that party determine who actually gets it, rather than risk splitting their general election votes between dead candidate and replacement candidate. (In 2000, Mel Carnahan won a Senate election despite being dead.)

I wonder why anyone would seek out commentary from the most extreme members of the other end of the political spectrum. (OK, I spend a little time here, but I would be surprised if anyone here is even close to the most extreme end of the right wing.)

The people on the left that I read have mostly offered sympathy (OK, Kos wants Trump to live so he can lose the election, be prosecuted and imprisoned, and see the ruin of his personal finances) or remained studiously neutral. In these sorts of situations, the right wing dredges up some obscure nobody to tar all Democrats, while it's major Republicans who advance cruel attacks and extreme conspiracy theories. A very common twitter post the last few days is Trump's mockery of Hillary Clinton's pneumonia, which coincidentally had its four year anniversary on Friday; and of course there's always a Trump tweet. While the Biden campaign has suspended negative advertising, the Trump campaign is still attacking Biden for wearing a mask too much and having smaller events. (Interestingly, at least one of the apostate Republicans who founded the Lincoln Project advocates keeping up the negative ads.)

Trump's doctor (medical or spin?) has admitted that he misrepresented things yesterday to be "upbeat"; nobody still in the administration has much credibility at this point, which is good for blunting any October surprises they may spring. Like their tax returns, the broad facts of a Presidential candidate's health should be known to the public. They knew enough from Hope Hicks' test result that Trump should never have gone to a buffet dinner maskless fundraiser on Thursday, even if Trump himself tested positive no earlier than the claimed timeline.

Since COVID-19 doesn't give up as quickly as human beings, I expect this will continue as the major topic of the rest of the campaign. Unlike calling members of the military suckers and losers, Woodward's tapes (ha, he almost used presidential tapes to bring down a Republican president early and late in his career), Trump not paying taxes, debate debacle, Melania's attacks on Christmas and separated children - not to mention all the things I've forgotten in just the past few weeks.

Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Shasarak

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2020, 06:36:00 PM »
Since COVID-19 doesn't give up as quickly as human beings, I expect this will continue as the major topic of the rest of the campaign. Unlike calling members of the military suckers and losers, Woodward's tapes (ha, he almost used presidential tapes to bring down a Republican president early and late in his career), Trump not paying taxes, debate debacle, Melania's attacks on Christmas and separated children - not to mention all the things I've forgotten in just the past few weeks.

I thought that the new york times article said that Trump paid over 4 million in taxes?  Too far past the headline to read?
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Spinachcat

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2020, 07:56:22 PM »
Scrolling down the page is racist.

rawma

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2020, 08:45:38 PM »
Since COVID-19 doesn't give up as quickly as human beings, I expect this will continue as the major topic of the rest of the campaign. Unlike calling members of the military suckers and losers, Woodward's tapes (ha, he almost used presidential tapes to bring down a Republican president early and late in his career), Trump not paying taxes, debate debacle, Melania's attacks on Christmas and separated children - not to mention all the things I've forgotten in just the past few weeks.

Speaking of extreme conspiracy theories...

If the conspiracy theory is that they disappear from the news cycle, each has been overtaken by subsequent things. COVID-19 diagnosis pretty much overshadowed them all in the news feeds.

If you mean the specifics I list, all of these things were widely reported and never (entirely) rebutted. The suckers and losers one? Trump denied calling McCain a loser, except he retweeted a reference to him saying that, and there's video of him doing so. Woodward's tapes? All over the internet, and no denials that they are in fact Trump, so you can listen to them yourself. Trump not paying taxes*? NYT article says 10 of 15 years leading up to 2017; he claimed at the debate that he paid millions in 2016 and 2017, but he doesn't seem inclined to prove it by releasing his taxes. Tape of Melania? Out on the internet.

3 out of 4 from Trump himself; and he resists settling the other one.

*Yes, I mean US income taxes in 10 out of 15 years. Trump can easily clear it up by releasing his tax returns like every other modern president or presidential candidate.

rawma

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2020, 08:46:54 PM »
Specifically, the RNC will choose a new candidate. It's too late to change the name and reprint the ballots in most states, so Trump would remain on the ballot, not whomever the RNC chooses. At that point, it's up to the electoral college. In states where electors have discretion, they'll probably vote for the new RNC candidate. Some states do have laws that force electors to vote for whomever won the majority in the state, but the consequences are minor enough and they're unlikely to sanctioned away, so they'd probably vote the same way. And the RNC candidate would either lose or become president.

The one exception is if the electoral college didn't result in a majority winner, say if the RNC couldn't decide on a candidate so they split between Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney. In which case Biden will win, because the House decides.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/02/were-final-stages-presidential-election-what-happens-if-candidate-withdraws-or-dies/

Some states have laws requiring electors to vote faithfully; not clear whether that would mean voting for the listed candidate or for the party's replacement candidate. The Supreme Court did uphold that (Colorado and Washington replaced faithless electors, I think). It's not clear whether that would persist round after round of voting; if the opponent has a majority of the electoral college, it's moot, but if not then nobody might get a majority (split between the replacement candidate and the replaced candidate) and maybe they would be freed in subsequent voting - not much purpose to electors being people if there are no circumstances in which they can vary from the state mandated vote.

If it goes to the House, the Republicans might win - each state gets one vote for its entire delegation (presumably no vote if it's evenly split?) and the Republicans control 26 state delegations even though the Democrats have a majority overall. But the Democrats with the Speaker position might be able to block the vote procedurally; who knows? More reasonably, the Democrats are trying to flip state delegation control to avoid losing a House vote.

rawma

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2020, 08:47:36 PM »
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

I am willing to beat anyone who plays a competitive game against me. (Ha, I posted something about games! Victory lap for me!)

moonsweeper

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2020, 08:48:12 PM »

Injecting bleach is pretty much as fake as fake news can be.

But I guess if the V-I-D-E-O says different....

A quick check of Politifact would have pointed that out, but that site is probably too far to the right for him.

...although I am inclined to think anyone who even considers injecting themselves with bleach probably should...hopefully before they breed
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rawma

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2020, 08:49:29 PM »
Since COVID-19 doesn't give up as quickly as human beings, I expect this will continue as the major topic of the rest of the campaign. Unlike calling members of the military suckers and losers, Woodward's tapes (ha, he almost used presidential tapes to bring down a Republican president early and late in his career), Trump not paying taxes, debate debacle, Melania's attacks on Christmas and separated children - not to mention all the things I've forgotten in just the past few weeks.

I thought that the new york times article said that Trump paid over 4 million in taxes?  Too far past the headline to read?

Fair enough; I should say "no US income taxes in 10 of 15 years, and $750 in each of 2016 and 2017". (The more alarming news in that story seems to be the amounts he owes to unknown parties, a big red flag for those who give security clearances.)

But ... did Shasarak just endorse a New York Times article as a reliable source of information? Outing yourself as a latte-sipping elitist, I see. They don't cotton to that kind of thing around here.

Dogpile on Shasarak, everyone!

moonsweeper

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2020, 09:41:53 PM »


If the conspiracy theory is that they disappear from the news cycle, each has been overtaken by subsequent things. COVID-19 diagnosis pretty much overshadowed them all in the news feeds.

If you mean the specifics I list, all of these things were widely reported and never (entirely) rebutted. The suckers and losers one? Trump denied calling McCain a loser, except he retweeted a reference to him saying that, and there's video of him doing so. Woodward's tapes? All over the internet, and no denials that they are in fact Trump, so you can listen to them yourself. Trump not paying taxes*? NYT article says 10 of 15 years leading up to 2017; he claimed at the debate that he paid millions in 2016 and 2017, but he doesn't seem inclined to prove it by releasing his taxes. Tape of Melania? Out on the internet.

3 out of 4 from Trump himself; and he resists settling the other one.

*Yes, I mean US income taxes in 10 out of 15 years. Trump can easily clear it up by releasing his tax returns like every other modern president or presidential candidate.

1.  John McCain was a loser, good for Trump...before you start mouthing about his 'service' do yourself a favor and Google the 1990 "Truth Bill", the second iteration a year later, and then the bill McCain introduced.  Then check on his modification of the 1995 Missing Service Personnel Act.

2.  So Trump paid around 4 million in taxes...why should I give a fuck if $750 is classified as 'income' tax instead of 'capital gains' or even 'Fuck the IRS" tax...it all went to the same place and he paid it.

3.  If you listen to the whole Melania tape, she was trying to get children reunited with their families and was bitching that the 'law' wouldn't just let them do it, that nobody had harassed Obama about it when he was doing it, and the fact that she was having to deal with the official WH Christmas celebration instead of fixing the family separation...are you saying she was wrong to be more concerned about the families??*

4.  Woodward's tapes are a 'whatever' moment.  Anyone involved with disaster management experience who is being honest will tell you that the absolute first thing you do in that situation is prevent a panic among the general population. (Paper towels/Toilet paper ring any bells?)  He also shut down travel from the source area .(but hey...Waaayciist) ...and imagine that. A fucking respiratory virus is airborne??  Holy shit, someone call Guiness Book...

*The only thing Melania is guilty of is caring about children and using the same language I do...I can respect both of those.
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moonsweeper

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2020, 09:47:44 PM »

Fair enough; I should say "no US income taxes in 10 of 15 years, and $750 in each of 2016 and 2017". (The more alarming news in that story seems to be the amounts he owes to unknown parties, a big red flag for those who give security clearances.)

But ... did Shasarak just endorse a New York Times article as a reliable source of information? Outing yourself as a latte-sipping elitist, I see. They don't cotton to that kind of thing around here.

Dogpile on Shasarak, everyone!

No red flag.  He had to divulge that info in order to even receive a security clearance.
...as far as the NYT...they are the original source so all the info is from them and they still had to dance around their own facts and gin a juicy headline to even get an actual attack in...
"I have a very hard time taking seriously someone who has the time and resources to protest capitalism, while walking around in Nike shoes and drinking Starbucks, while filming it on their iPhone."  --  Alderaan Crumbs

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Ratman_tf

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Re: President Trump has Covid19
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2020, 09:47:54 PM »
If the conspiracy theory is that they disappear from the news cycle, each has been overtaken by subsequent things. COVID-19 diagnosis pretty much overshadowed them all in the news feeds.

If you mean the specifics I list, all of these things were widely reported and never (entirely) rebutted. The suckers and losers one? Trump denied calling McCain a loser, except he retweeted a reference to him saying that, and there's video of him doing so. Woodward's tapes? All over the internet, and no denials that they are in fact Trump, so you can listen to them yourself. Trump not paying taxes*? NYT article says 10 of 15 years leading up to 2017; he claimed at the debate that he paid millions in 2016 and 2017, but he doesn't seem inclined to prove it by releasing his taxes. Tape of Melania? Out on the internet.

3 out of 4 from Trump himself; and he resists settling the other one.

*Yes, I mean US income taxes in 10 out of 15 years. Trump can easily clear it up by releasing his tax returns like every other modern president or presidential candidate.

Is this an intentional softball?

You claim Trump called out the military and then walk it back to just McCain when challenged.
You claim Trump didn't pay taxes and then walk it back to his tax returns when challenged.
Melania is the kind of Hollywood gossip that I really don't give a shit about.
The Woodward tapes I'm not as familiar with, so I'll let someone else opine about that.

*Oh, the Woodward tape was the one where Trump was talking about preventing a panic? Yeah. Just remember the Dems had the same level of briefings and didn't do diddly fucking squat. They were too busy trying to impeach Trump to care two shits about a looming pandemic. Nobody knew how this was going to go down at the time, and hindsight is 20/20.

So yeah, I'm glad you popped your head back in to repeat some media rumor mill garbage and pretend you're the voice of reason. If anything, it's amusing to watch you crash and burn.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 09:57:06 PM by Ratman_tf »
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